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Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 9:10 AM

Now this is interesting. Any ideas?

By JAMEY KEATEN, Associated Press Writer Wed Sep 12, 1:00 PM ET

PARIS - A kilogram just isn't what it used to be.

The 118-year-old cylinder that is the international prototype for the metric mass, kept tightly under lock and key outside Paris, is mysteriously losing weight — if ever so slightly. Physicist Richard Davis of the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sevres, southwest of Paris, says the reference kilo appears to have lost 50 micrograms compared with the average of dozens of copies.

"The mystery is that they were all made of the same material, and many were made at the same time and kept under the same conditions, and yet the masses among them are slowly drifting apart," he said. "We don't really have a good hypothesis for it."

Here's the rest of the article: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070912/ap_on_re_eu/shrinking_kilogram

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#1

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 9:40 AM

It might be someone has sneezed all over the other ones? <Cough>

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 9:46 AM

It could be. The article's analogy of 50 micrograms is "the weight of a fingerprint". I'm thinkin' a sneeze is overkill.

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#19
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 7:06 PM

Hi OoBE,

Wiki says "Because the first forty official copies are made of precisely the same alloy as the IPK [International Prototype Kilogram] and are stored under similar conditions, periodic verifications using a large number of replicas—especially, the national primary standards, which are rarely used—can convincingly demonstrate the stability of the IPK. What has become clear after the third periodic verification performed between 1988 and 1992, is that for some unknown reason the mass of the IPK lost perhaps 50 µg over the last century, and possibly significantly more, in comparison to its official copies.[10] [11] Further, the IPK exhibits an instability of about 30 µg over a period of about a month in its after-cleaned mass.[12] The precise reason for this instability is not fully understood but is thought to entail surface effects: microscopic differences in their polished surfaces, unintentional differences in the cleaning process, and/or differences in the precise nature of the contamination. What is known is the past assumption that the cleaning process reliably restores the prototypes to their original value is false and the BIPM's after-cleaning correction factor is useful only for long-term trends. Scientists are seeing far greater variability in the prototypes than previously believed. Further, there is no technical means available to know whether or not the entire worldwide ensemble of prototypes suffer from even greater long-term trends upwards or downwards because their mass "relative to an invariant of nature is unknown at a level below 1000 µg over a period of 100 or even 50 years."[10]

The apparent loss of mass and the instability in the IPK has prompted research into improved methods to obtain a smooth surface finish using diamond-turning on newly manufactured replicas and has intensified the search for a new definition of the kilogram."

Apparently some cleaning person used a little too much pressure and rubbed off some weight.

-John

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#3

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 9:53 AM

George Bush did it!!!! It is a plot by the US Government to throw the Metric System into chaos, therefore rendering the world into anarchy allowing the US system based on the length of someones foot and/or the weight of a bail of hay in the 1700's system take over the world!!!!!! USA, USA, USA, USA!!!!

We hired Tom Cruise to infultrate Paris and get a meeting with the Kilogram (similar to a Paris supermodel in respect to conversation). He used a compelling argument with and he convinced the Kilogram that it was overweight. The Kilogram having been duped, now distraught over it's weight, quit showing up for work. The Kilogram's entourage became concerned and that is when the loss was discovered. The Kilogram allowed its physical properties to morph (i.e. reverse of petrified wood? because it's not wood?) thus the loss of weight.

I hear that the kilogram will be making an appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show to tell all.

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#4
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 11:16 AM

:) :) Waaaa, stop it it's hurting :) :)

eeeuuuuhh, what's that liquid?

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#5
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 11:49 AM

< I hear that the kilogram will be making an appearance on the Oprah Winfrey show to tell all.>

Does its bum look big on that? <wheeze>

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#16
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 1:08 PM

Tom Cruise had nothing to do with it. The kilogram saw Britney Spears on the MTV awards and didn't want to wind up like her, so it went on a diet. Dr. Phil has been sent to montor the situation in case the kilogram becomes anorexic.

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#6

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 11:59 AM

Ok, I'mgonna go with oxidation. Although this is to simple of an answer, it could be possible couldn't it?

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/13/2007 2:31 PM

It could be due to all that hot air the policy makers are blowing up our arses!

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#12
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 7:49 AM

Unless the oxides produced are volatile, oxidation would add weight, not reduce it.

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#17
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 2:44 PM

I thought these standards were all made of platinum. What would it take to oxidize platinum?

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#18
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 6:38 PM

Atomic decay I say

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#8

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 1:05 AM

It just might be possible that the "kilogram" is being stored too close to the event horizon of a microscopic black hole and the atoms are slowly migrating to an alternate space/time continuum where they found a nicer beach....

Actually, I'm Favoring the oxidation idea tendered earlier...

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#9

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 1:14 AM

Doesn't quantum physics allow for a non-zero chance of atomic tunneling? Perhaps some of the material is just tunneling into whatever it is sitting on. Perhaps a statistical analysis would be indicative.

Ooo, I think some of me may have just tunneled into the chair. Yes, I definitely feel a few micrograms lighter.

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#10

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 2:27 AM

Assuming that they were shiny before, are they still shiny (as shiny when new) today?

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#11

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 5:15 AM

Last month, a UFO come to paris and emit a beam of laser, which cause a chain of action to reduce the weight of one object. just that one!

this is very new messsage captured from their communication this morning

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#13

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 9:54 AM

Weighing error. The initial weight was simply wrong.

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#20
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 7:52 PM

Just wonder how accurate/precise weighing scale long ago than the ones we have today?

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#14

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 10:20 AM

working for a French company, I am confident in saying that they all still weigh the same. The French couldn't take the time to properly weigh the thing. They just thought that they would throw this controversy over the wall so that someone else would drop by and do the measurements for them.

The report probably came out in early Septembers just after they all got back from their obligatory month off.

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#15
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 10:37 AM

he he ... okay now. That would be funny, but let's remember that this is an international forum. We're all brothers and sisters here. French, Aussie, Chinese, Rigellian, Arcturian, Phlembotian ....

Soyez respectueux.

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#21

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/14/2007 10:44 PM

Just curious.

A weigh scale is calibrated against a known standard. As far as I'm concerned, the IPK is the ultimate standard.

What weigh scale did they use to check the IPK's weight? What standard did they use? That standard needs to be calibrated against another, international standard. In this case, the ultimate international standard is the IPK! Where am I going with this?

I'm going to a little corner and curl up for a while. All my faith in calibration systems just went POOF.

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#22
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 12:47 AM

That's the kind of problem you have with that kind of thing, when you have that kind of problem with those kinds of things...

"And the circle, it goes round and round

and the painted pony goes up and down

we're captive on a carousel..."

Speaking of relativity, since the rotation of the earth is gradually slowing, reducing our velocity, and that would reduce mass minutely... well but maybe it would affect everything the same and we wouldn't be able to detect the difference that would result even if we could measure it. But maybe it would reduce the mass more at the surface due to the differing angular velocity. And what about the change in centripetal force?

Yeah, time for me to go curl up now and I never had faith.

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#23

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 3:32 AM

Maybe the Earth is bulging in France. You know, g is less and that sort of thing.

<The temptation to poke loving fun at my neighbours with such words as lightweight and lacking substance is huge. I shall not go there.> If France is bulging, somewhere else must be slimming. Anybody got corresponding weight gain ?

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#25
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 5:58 AM

I think Spain is loosing it's gravitational forces, I have noticed in the last 7years, that my weight has increased around the mid-drift! this, I can only put down to a decrease in the lack of standard gravity! Then again, I may be wrong! It could be that my bones have increased in density or my intake of fluids has dramatically increased due to the conditions of a dry climate! personally, I don't give a hoot as to the state of these gravitational forces, only the fact that things are achanging and I can't hold them back!

If gravity is getting weaker on a local basis, eg in France, it would only take a small change to produce the figures that we are talking about, but that would effect everything including the weight of the standard kilo! Lets look at some numbers:-

We all know Newtons 2nd

F=ma

1Kg=m*9.81

if 'a' changes by only a smidgen then F will also change by a smidgen! Try this, change 9.81 to 9.8099 and see what you get for F! But this would be a local effect that would change the weight of everything including the apparatus that we use to check the kilo! therefore it has nothing to do with gravity!

How about micro welding, the ability of a material to micro weld itself to it's closest neighbour? Good point, worth thinking about! or the accuracy of the method of weighing the piece! How was it done in the first place? Was the same method used in the sequential measurement or was a new method used! Is the weight difference only the deviation in the measurements taken or is it a genuine change in the weight?

I think maybe it is due to the difference in the way we measure things now against the way we did it before!

I can understand that many people will think that I am talking out of my ass but, what the hell, I know what I know and until someone can give me another idea, I am stuck with the ideas I have! Great, oxidation, micro welding, Measuring method, there has to be an explanation if only to put my mind at rest and as it is Saturday, all hope of reason has been firmly thrown out the door! Help me Obe-wan-kanobi, you are my only hope................

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#26
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 6:23 AM

But this would be a local effect that would change the weight of everything including the apparatus that we use to check the kilo! therefore it has nothing to do with gravity!

Are you trying to break my heart Mr Truman Brain ? Were I to weigh myself with the mechanical bathroom scales, would I get a different result in the basement compared to the loft ? I had been increasing the height of the loft, as a pre-emptive plan to counter future weight gain. Some re-assurance would ease my distress.

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#27
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 7:01 AM

Don't panic, your weight will only change by --- say --- a few microgrammes.

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#28
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 7:34 AM

50 μg per kilo ? I'm sure France looks taller today than it did yesterday. I wonder if there is post glacial bounce still occuring in SE England that might confuse things even more. Now I'm going to have to check where all those reference weights are. Best avoid those deep fried mars bars - your corresponding downward bounce might be adding wait to you as we speak. Don't take any chances mate. I'll do my bit to compansate as well, and maybe we can save the UK.

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#24

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/15/2007 5:24 AM

Who needs an accuracy of 0.00000005%?????


(awaiting complaints that I've got the number of zeros wrong)

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#29

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/17/2007 1:08 PM

50 micrograms!

I think some one wiped them down to clean them and wiped off the mass. Look at the French maid and butler.

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#30

Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/17/2007 9:37 PM

The minute mass we are talking about could be lost any number of ways ... my guess .... someone screwed up in its storage. Cleaned it with an acid based cleaner several times or something equally as asinine.(think thats how you spell that.) I mean come on out of dozens of copies the idea that all of them were kept 100% under the same conditions with no mistakes!!!???? Not to mention the possibility of a biological contaminant that broke down over time. ............... hmmm oh oh ... maybe quantum foam ..... worm hole .... mutiverse !!!!! ........ OMG i got it .... thats it ...Einstien ..Hawkins .. wgh71 Woohoo .....!!!

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#31
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Re: Disappearing Weight mystery ...

09/18/2007 2:13 AM

Or only the original DIDN'T get a finger print on it during the process?

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