Can This Increase UPS Operating Time?

It is not only risky it is daft.

The UPS will have its own charging circuit to keep it's batteries topped up.

DON'T MESS WITH IT!

Hello Jeremiah,

Take a minute out, and think logically. If that worked OK, and you could use the UPS at the same time, you would have something for nothing - in contravention of basic Law of Physics.

For a UPS to be useful, it must have an external energy source, apart from that rechargeable battery.

Of course the Output voltage can be sent back to the input socket.

But in every system made by man, there are losses:

1. Internal resistance in the rechargeable batteries
2. Resistance of cables, plugs, sockets, connectors, internal wiring
3. The efficiency of the Inverter is always less than 100%
4. Iron losses in the transformer/s
   
5. And so on.........

Note the resistance losses are converted into heat, and most of that heat energy is not recoverable.

Sure the heat output warms the room, but apart from that, is dissipated, (not going back into the UPS system), while trying to raise the temperature of the entire Universe.

So you always would find the rechargeable battery would eventually fully discharge, because the total system efficiency cannot be greater than 100%, and is mostly around 65%. (all those percentage losses multiplied out = the total percentage efficiency)

And the other thing to remember, is if you could do what you say, then how could you extract even more energy from the UPS at the same time?

Many UPS sets do have an auto-power off facility designed into them, to prevent your achieving what you hope to try, anyway - that is a "Risk Game" you may not want to take....

hi guys...

i feel this is the most sensible response to this teaser of a question

sriram

As Del says - you're an idiot if you think you can effectively bypass the UPS by linking the input to the output!!!

If the mains goes off the UPS is supposed to keep equipment powered up.... by putting a link across the UPS and bypassing it the UPS can't function!!!

John.

Don't you just love these "free energy" ideas... It's like "golly gee... why did no one else think of this before now"?

As to what would happen...

• Take a fully charged UPS and unplug it from its AC source.
• The UPS sees the line voltage fail and promptly switches on the inverter and powers it output sockets off of its internal batteries.
• You then plug the UPS AC cord into the powered socket on the back of the UPS.
• The UPS sees the AC line voltage reappear and after its "power return time delay", it then switches off the inverter and transfers the load back to the incoming utility AC supply.
• As the inverter is now off, the voltage collapses and the AC mains fail and the cycle starts all over again until the battery power is gone.

As mentioned by others, a good UPS will sense what you are trying to do and prevent it, but the cheap ones won't and will become a big flasher unit.

Nothing for nothing equals nothing!

I think you mean something for nothing equals nothing. But beyond that your explanation is spot on.

I wonder if this type of cycling of the UPS would result in overheating of the control board and eventual failure? Maybe Del can try this right after he measures the power spectrum of lightning!

Maybe simply connect a lightning conductor to the UPS which is fed back to itself and all our future power requirements are solved!?

This might be a solution as I have noticed that many of the power outages at my house occur during lightning storms. (the rest seem to occur at about 0230, just after closing time at the local pubs)

The only problem we have is who will fly the kite?

I propose Vermin to fly the kite as he already looks a bit charred !!

John

Hello Jeremiah!!!

Are you illiterate putting such old repeated such questions.

You should know that in each conversion of energy there is always a loss; which means that the output will always be less than input & some energy is dissipated as heat.

So how a deminishing quantity will survive for long time & keep its level?

So in short NO!

Don't Take it hard at least you think outside the box ((The idiot box)Telly for you across the pond).

Here is a hint, you never get something for nothing ever. That goes double for engineering.

Maximum efficiency for any system is 100%, if you achieve 90% you are doing very good. Feed back loops like you described are usually gaining or losing unless there is active regulation. Power is used regardless. 90% X 90% is 81% or one loop. This turns power to heat with little work done, that work is usually the meltdown of your equipment.

Over unity is a system that makes more than put in. It don't work. Even if you could pull it from another dimension, It loses the power you gain it minus the efficiency of the conversion (where that goes as what depends on the system).

Keep thinking but to improve a system you need to understand a system.

So step One: google system.

step Two: discern system and its variations.

step Three: when you don't understand a variable, do more research then ask C4 explaining you doing what for why, how, etc. the more information we have the better the answer we can give. Have a sense of humor because we have from a twisted to a dry one and everything in between.

Hope this was some help

Brad

Every UPS has a charging circuit for the battery (except rotary UPSs).

So Losses aside for a second.

The UPS will see the mains fail and switch to battery, either you or some automated switch wrap the output back to the input at whic point the charging circuit commences charging the battery which is more requires more output from the load side of the UPS.

So losses aside you would actually decrease the Operating time.

With this in mind and the other more technical issues included:-

If you didn't burn it out, the losses due to inefficiency and the recharge cycle it, wont last long.

If you choose to experiment, please do it a long way away.

Sapper

This is the funniest thread I have seen in a long time!

Hello Jeremiah,

Your question has been answered, it seems.

You have yet to reply.......