Home TV Aerials - Do the pretty designer ones work

I don't know what you mean by 'pretty designer ones...' But a TV aerial that takes some beating is the standard Yagi with directional and gain increasing 'rungs'.

Sounds like that is the sort you are using? The multi-element Yagii ( Yagis?) are available up to very high gains and with excellent responses - I can't think of a better design...

John

I know little about British TV, but I must agree with John. A yagi antenna gives you the best bang for the buck (or £ in your case). I have been designing and building this style of antenna for about 15 years now.

Bill

Hey, Horace, do you have one of those skinny boats they use on canals in England? Last year we did Shakespear's walk, we hiked from Stratford on Avon, to London, took us 8 days. We stayed at B&B's along the way. On our way into Oxford (love Oxford), we hiked along many very old canals. They were, like 6 feet wide. There where many canal boats that just barely fit, some of them were more than 50 feet long. It was like a total sub culture that we would have never know about.

It seems like very low country, so reception would be a chalange even under the best on conditions.

Yes he does mean those skinny boats...

I'm not sure which was designed first, the canal to fit the boats or the boats to fit the canal?

Either way they are one of the most pleasant ways to spend a holiday just phut phut phutting along the canals of England.

John

Hello Bricktop

Yes, my boat is more or less as you describe - 50 ft long and just under 7 ft wide. You can see it/us in my avatar. I am moored on the Coventry Canal. It takes 4 days to get to Stratford at 3mph - and probably a week from Stratford to get to London by canal via the Grand Union Canal and dozens of locks.

The Stratford Canal is a lovely canal, and so is the Oxford Canal and River Thames.

I hope you had a nice holiday.

With such lovely countryside to cruise through at a leisurely pace away from the rat-race, the lack of TV reception is not a really a problem - except to miss the weather forecast and news.

In fact we were out cruising for a couple of weeks at the time of the USA 9/11 disaster - we did not know about it until we heard via gossip along the towpath.

Still, it would be nice to have an aerial that works in areas of poor reception - which from Electroman it seems I have already got one.

My earlier 'designer' description was a flippant comment about aerials that seem to have been made to look pretty rather than pick up signals.

That was a good time. Beautiful countryside.

If you had such an aerial, wouldn't you you have to be able to take it down quickly, to fit under the many low bridges? Oh, stupid question. You want it just when your tied up?

What do you do for electricity? Perhaps you could get a satellite dish. We are very spoiled in in the US. I have about 200 channels to choose from. My experence in the UK is that there's not much to watch on broadcast TV, but I do love the BBC for news and stuff.

Unfortunatlly, the UK has just become to expensive for me, the week dollar and all. I usually spend a month or so in Europe every year. We've been leaning to Eastern Europe for the last few years. We spent time in Hungary and Croatia, just lovely, and still very reasonable. This year, probably Romania. And Amsterdam, I don't care what it costs.

Hello Bricktop

I like the picture - is it one you took? We are trying to guess where it is - it looks familiar - but we can't put a name to the place.

We run on 12volt DC battery power with a 240 volt AC inverter. The TV plugs into a 12 volt cigar socked.

The aerial is only used when we moor up for the night. We use the boat pole with brackets to make a mast. The 'designer' type aerials mount permanently on the roof and have a very low profile to avoid damage under bridges. By their very nature they are not placed to get the best reception - hence my question about their effectiveness.

I have tried satellite TV but with little success because it is hard to find the Sky satellite. The satellite finder is OK for maximum signal when you find the satellite, but not much help finding Sky in the first place.

The 'Yagi' aerial seems the best bet, but anything more than half a dozen elements (like the one we already have) has awkward and untidy stowage problems - space is at a premium as you can guess.

Good luck with your travels.

"I like the picture - is it one you took? We are trying to guess where it is - it looks familiar - but we can't put a name to the place."

Looks like the last lock on the southern Oxford Canal just before it enters the Thames (Isis Lock?).

HTH

John

nine9feet

Hi, John!

The look of the lock worries me. My SO and I were contemplating getting a narrow boat and doing the world in it. But I was hoping for an 8-foot beam. If all the locks are like that, should we reconsider and get the 6-foot?

Re the TV reception, Horace40: If what you want is a greater number of channels effortlessly, a very low profile, and lack of hands-on management, the following might be useful for you, I think. It would require the purchase of a satellite receiver. (I've been looking at the 'Captain 9000 HD' receiver for price and features.) It's certainly the route I would take under the same set of circumstances as you have described.

http://www.kvh.com/products/Product.asp?id=157

Mark

Hello John

Thanks for the link. Sorry but at $2,000 I will put up with poor reception. I will try the low level idea.

An 8 ft boat will be the worst of all worlds. Not wide enough to give much added space inside, but too wide for most locks on UK narrow canals that are 7ft x 70ft.

A popular max size boat is 65ft x 6ft 10ins. Mine is 50ft - a nice size for 4-berth.

Bricktop - Here's a pic of Isis lock with my boat just about to enter.

Regards all.

Cliff.

Yes, I took those photo's. John, your good, that's where it was taken, in August of '07. What a lovely part of the world. When you embark upon a long hike you just never know what you'll come across. Here's another one I really like, again, on the way to Oxford.

Contrary to common belief TV signal travels the water table.

Yes I had some trouble while living on a small island. Put antenna in sump and viola`

I take it the UK isnt going to eliminate broadcast TV in the near future like the US is?

No, it isn't going to be eliminated.

There is, however, a gradual change-over to digital-based signal transmission, though the antenna/receiver thing is likely to remain for some time into the future.

Though cable television exists, it isn't exactly 'mainstream'. Canal- and river-boat users will still need to rely on antennae, for obvious reasons.

Looks like the same spot.

It looks like you have a very nice boat. Some don't look very seaworthy.

I like this one. I've been to Worcester, England, and I live right next to Worcester, Massachusetts.

Those boats are BIG MONEY! I've looked into one for when I retire. Is it a tax thing, or is it you can get only so many permits for one? Around here, you would have to pay someone to take it away. I've seen very simple boats going for $60,000. I would love to have one though.

Reckon on about £1,000GBP per linear foot for narrowboat purchase. Then one needs somewhere to moor it, and a licence to use the network, as well as third-party insurance. Every four years or so, the boat will need to pass through a Boat Safety Scheme examination by a qualified boat surveyor.

Or one can hire. A week or two in Deepest England on a narrowboat holiday is an excellent way of slowing down, forgetting all the worries, and simply watching the countryside go by.

http://www.ukboathire.com/?gclid=CN6OkLuGqJICFQQx1AodOzo6QA (usual disclaimer).

Have you tried installing an amplifier and/or filtering? They are fairly inexpensive from a radio-shack or other such electronics store.

Vans comment brings up another question. Do they even have Radio Shack in UK? Here in the US I also would go to Radio Shack to get a TV antenna. The ones they sell here are actually a style called "Log Periodic" because the TV channels take up a heck of alot of bandwidth. They are not true yagis, but they have similar properties.

Bill

We used to have Tandy Radio Shack I think, but they disappeared years ago...

We've plenty of other places though like Maplins, CPC and others...

John.

Screwfix have some good & cheap aerials

Hello Vandarye

No! I have not tried an amplifier. In my ignorance of these things, I assumed if I got 'snow' then an amplifier would give me more 'SNOW'.

It is worth a go though - so thanks for the idea - unless someone knows better ??

Horace, you're quite right, if you've got a lousy signal amplifying it will amplify the noise as well.

If you've got a weak signal though that's a different matter.

John

There are a couple of tricks involved in receiving a signal in a high noise environment.

First of all, use a directional antenna (such as a yagi). In making the antenna directional, they make reception off the side of the antenna very poor. If the noise is from a single source, you can orient the antenna such that the noise comes into the side of the antenna, and the signal comes in from the front. Of course this is a compromise fix.

Second, some of the noise comes in through the feedline from the antenna to the television. If you use a LNA (low noise amplifier), get one which you can mount at the antenna. This way you amplify the signal without amplifying the noise coming in via the feedline. I saw one of these which used the feedline to power the amplifier in addition to receiving the signal.

Hopefully this might help.

Bill

I'd just go for as many elements/£ as you can afford/feel like...stick it up on a pole as high as is feasible/sensible/looks ok/you can manipulate.
Dunno about amplifiers? Are they a good thing? Maybe Electroman will opine?

Here The one with built in amplifier looks pretty good value...

Del

Del

Your link shows one from Screwfix - it is the sort of aerial that prompted my original question - it has 'bells and whistles' and looks as though it should pick up signals from the moon - but with all these fancy elements does it do anything better - or is it 'designed' to look as though it does.

John & Sciesis2

If the above aerial is superior and high gain, and I assume, highly directional, does it mean I have to adjust the spacing of elements in the first place, and bend the reflectors back and forwards - then re-adjust for each station - or is it 'universal' in concept - and ready set-up - so once pointed to the transmitter it works on all stations - analogue and digital.

Please remember this is an operation that has to be carried out at each mooring - usually daily - because we tend to cruise most of the time.

The more elements the better.
I don't there is any need to adjust as all the stations are close enough to make no difference. E.G they are all in the same 'band'.

I think Electroman is more RF orientated than I am..so maybe he'll confirm/deny that explanation.

Like I said .. high pole ..plenty of elephants elements, Any aerial will be directional..

Del

Yes, the Labgear 19 element one looks as good as you're going to get within a certain price.... its at almost £9 and looks fine...

Personally, I wouldn't pay over £10 for an aerial, if they sell well the price should be below a tenner.

besides which you don't want an extremely directional aerial, as the slightest change in mooring position or the mast will give a degraded signal...

19 elements is enough... methinks... or so the girl friend says

John

Again, I am not familiar with British television, and not sure where you stand with analogue and digital. I would assume that the antenna would be "universal". The antennas I have seen (similar to the picture) in the US have the ability to fold down the reflectors into the same plane as the rest of the antenna, which should simplify stowage while underway.

Another thought... radio waves bounce. If you are in a canyon (say North-South) and you want to receive a station to the East, you might get the best signal on a bounce off the west wall of the canyon. I am also not familiar with British geography so this might be not relevant.

Bill

Bill

We just rotate the aerial until we get the best picture.

From the average advice collectively given to me, for which I am grateful, it seems my best bet is persevere with the simple Yagi I already have, but perhaps try out an aerial mounted amplifier/filter.

That's it for now. Thanks Del, John, Bill, Bricktop, Vandarye, Bwire, Mark & Guest.

And last but not least - my claim to fame (it is not one of my pictures so I don't know how it got on the front cover of the magazine).

Cliff.

I dun know but I've had good service from two fire-sticks oriented at 90° angle to each other.

For finding the best direction for a beam TV antenna, this item might be useful (usual disclaimer):

http://www.maplin.co.uk/module.aspx?ModuleNo=221768&doy=25m3

You should have no problems, in spite of being relatively low down on your boat, either with a Sat receiver or a DVB-T receiver. My wife and I run around Europe with both in our caravan and have no problems whatsoever in receiving both German and British programs.

I will concentrate on reception in the UK for you.

Please ask me if anything is not easily understood.

You did not tell us what your present system is, but I guess analog, which will give you problems.....throw it away immediately, but save the cable (and the TV ) if in a good condition....

DVB-T

Buy a DVB-T receiver and an ACTIVE DVB-T Masthead aerial (20db or better gain. More is better!), from a supplier with outlets all over the UK case of guarantee problems.

I bought mine on ebay for €30 (Aerial) and receiver €40. UK receivers will work in Europe and European receivers will work in the UK, its the same standard!!

I must mention that these modern aerials have nothing in common with a Yagi, they are sealed plastic boxes with a clip to allow mounting on a 40mm pipe or similar.....they are small and need 5 volts from the receiver to power the internal electronics. Yagis are far, far larger and are not needed today except in really off beat fringe areas. I personally never use them anymore.....the DVB-T maps of the UK will show you where these fringe areas are.

Raise the Aerial as high as you can when parking for the night. If reception is poor, turn the aerial through 90° and try again. Repeat if needed. If you can get the Aerial to at least 15 feet above the boat (longer is better in this instance!!), you should not have problems in most of the UK where canals are.

The mast should be stiff enough to stop the aerial flapping about in a breeze, otherwise you will get many "artifacts" on the TV screen.

Let the receivers automatic scan run, it will pull in all possible stations and store them for you....

Get a DVB-T Map for the UK to show where reception is possible..

A good Antenna type with 20-30db gain:-

The following type is NOT recommended:-

You may find the following link useful:-

DVB-T Infos UK

Sat Receiver.

Buy a digital sat receiver with at least a 60Cm dish, I prefer a 90cm, which makes setup easier, it is more tolerant of rain storms etc.. but not really needed in the UK for UK television.

Mount the receiver on say the front of your boat, in such a position that a) you can swing it around 360° and b) it does not get in your way while underway, nor get hit by low bridges etc.. A permanent fixture is best, but if not possible, you will need to mount it when you want to watch TV!!

Buy a compass that you look through a sighting system and the degrees are clearly marked, the simple Boy Scout type is good enough, and use it when searching for the satellite. Also purchase a "Sat Finder" meter, they cost around 10-00 pounds or so. They have a meter indication of the sat and generally a tone that increases in pitch, the stronger the signal is. This needs to be placed between the LNB and the receiver, it can stay in circuit all the time if it is placed in a dry place....and you can see or/and hear it at least when adjusting the dish.

I assume you want to receive Astra at 28° E, but just find out two things first, a) the angle from South that the Satellite you wish to receive is placed and b) the vertical angle that your dish needs to be placed to receive any satellite in a Geostationary orbit! This is usually a map of the UK with various angles marked on it, the farther north you go, the lower the angle is of course. Once found, you will need to travel quite a long way before it needs readjusting and then only when traveling in N & S directions!!!

I have found a useful .pdf that details the complete procedure at the following link:-

Satellite Setup procedure

The first time, till you get your brain around the way it works, you may have some bother till you get the right Satellite ( a picture and sound may not be of the correct satellite at the first attempt!) DO NOT BE DISMAYED!!!

The first time, do everything in Daylight, preferably on a dry day with nothing better to do! Once you have learned how to aim in approximately the right direction using a compass (making sure that you have no trees near you in that direction BEFORE you tie up!!), and you have almost at least the correct azimuth, the sat meter will indicate the Satellite well before sound or a picture will become apparent!!!! It is then relatively easy to complete the setup.

Fine adjustment to get the best signal level so that heavy rain will not spoil your reception is important and relatively easy with the meter!!

Once you have do it a few times, you will find that the procedure is easy and that you can have a correct TV reception with less than 5 minutes of adjusting.....the magnetic compass is the best help there is especially if the sun is not visible (in the rain!!)....

Tips

Do make sure that the cables you are using have been checked for shorts BEFORE using, buy a cheap Multimeter and learn how to do this and to carry out simple cable repairs if needed....make all connections waterproof, do not stand on the cables ever, this damages them, best is a permanent on board installation, that only needs to be raised up when parked.

Keep a few spare satellite screw connectors handy, they are cheap and DO check the cables carefully and treat them well!!! A shorted cable will cause you bad problems....If your eyes are not good, use a magnifying glass to make sure that no stray wires (thinner than human hair) are bridging the connectors.....

Correct connector for most DVB-T and Sat Receivers.

Final points

Writing/reading all this makes it look difficult, believe me it isn't, except maybe the first time, after you have done it once, you will find it really easy....and well worthwhile.

Andy

Thanks for the info - it's quite a lot to take on board in one go - so to speak.

I've read what you said - and some links - so it looks a good idea. Not necessarily the complete answer - but worth a try.

I will do some homework on eBay as well.

Cliff.

If you have any further questions, I and the rest of the CR4 team will be happy to help.

On my next UK trip (not planned at this moment sad to say!), I could drop by and show you all you need to know if you wish......you will be surprised at just how simple it really is when you get down to it!!! No Bullshit!!

Let me know "roughly" where you live/operate your Narrow boat and I will do my best to drop by.

Maybe another member is already in your area with such knowledge!!! Its really not "rocket science!"

All the people I ever trained learned best with "Hands on" than just reading about it, I am sure that you are no different....

Andy.

Thanks for your very generous offer, but I would not dream of asking you to come all the way to my place in the UK to do something that I could be expected to do myself if I put in the right amount of effort - anything less than that would seem like laziness on my part.

You tips have been very helpful, and with input from others, I have enough info to put together a package.

I will report back when it is up and running - which could be a month or so.

Cliff.

.

I was actually only offering to come round when I make my next trip to the UK in the summer, I was not going to come just to see you personally !!( just your narrow boat!!)

The offer still stands if you are in trouble still this summer.....

The good point is that it should not cost you much to get both Satellite and terrestrial Digital TV on your boat working....