Legal advice

I don't think lawyers / solicitors etc... like giving out free information!

As their sort of information is read directly from a book, a legal forum would be excessively dull and boring.... a simple question and answer style I would guess!!

Us engineers love to debate and discuss alternatives to established ideas... The legal peeps don't have that sort of ability to think outside of their little boxes...

If there was a legal forum it would soon die as the participants would all agree with each other!!!

John </ legal rant >

Engineering principles are broadly the same the world over, once the difference in working units is mastered. Part of the problem with legal matters lies in the fact that law varies from country to country; Scottish law differs from English law in a number of respects, for example.

Lawyers like the exchange rate but only with money, not information or ideas. Depending what his profession is, there are free assistance programs in place. Unfortunately they are for artists, performers, students and others that don't make much money. Sometimes just paying a lawyer to send a letter of intent to sue will do the trick. When they see it's from an esquire they usually will take care of the bill or at least start to make payments. First you need to decide whether it is worth going after the money in terms of cost to you, and how much you plan to get back.

Good Luck

Surely, your friend must have Googled "legal forum"?

Hi jfmart!

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not commenting as a lawyer. I'm an engineer and a skilled trade (both retired). But your friend might not need a lawyer to get paid.

The law in almost every country in the world is on your friend's side.

A long time ago in England, a contractor pulled into a wrong address and erected a gazebo in the lawns. The owner of the property, seeing the mistake, let the work go on...thinking that when it was done, he could kick the carpenter off the property and keep a free gazebo.

But the carpenter took the owner to court, and the good old English courts ruled that since the owner knew the work was going on and did not stop it, the carpenter was entitled to be paid for it. The Latin phrase meaning "as much as deserved" is quantum meruit. Because England at the time ruled the entire civilized world the rule of law in every country (with the exception of very few) includes this legal defence of the independent worker.

What it means is, if your friend did work for somebody who knew the work was being done on their behalf, agreement or no agreement, contract or no contract, he/she is entitled to be paid a just compensation for it. And the work done is not qualified or quantified. Quantum meruit applies equally to an estate trustee, an airline pilot (non-union), and a ditch digger (also non-union...unions are protected by collective agreements and the right to strike), and of course independent skilled trades...we use it as our main weapon to force cheaters to pay up.

If the client or customer does not agree with the amount paid, they are free to counter-sue the contractor for a rebate. But they are not free to not pay him/her in the first place; and the counter suit must be calculated against the amount owed quantum meruit before being calculated against any other beef the client has with the contractor.

If there is a bill and a contract for the services rendered, then quantum meruit applies only to the amount agreed upon and reflected by the billing amount. So, while your friend might have done extras for the client for free as a goodwill gesture, the client can't be billed for them just because it refuses to pay. That restriction is called an assumpsit, and means that the total amount owed is presumed on the bill.

There is, however, an exception to the assumpsit: if the client has been really slow or slimy about paying, and more than a reasonable time has elapsed since the work was done and the first invoice presented, the assumpsit can be waived by an understanding judge (and often is!) So the injured contractor who has been suing for not only the amount billed originally, but the entire amount of the worth of the work plus materials he/she supplied to the site might get everything he/she is entitled to. Check out quantum meruit on the net. Have your friend quote it in his/her small claims court list of claims...e.g.:

"7. The work was done in a good and workmanlike manner and payment requested several times, but to date no payment whatsoever has been made. The plaintiff contends that this violates his right in the nature of the original verbal contract, and quantum meruit is additionally claiming for work done but not originally billed for.

8. The plaintiff also claims pre and post judgment interest at the Courts of Justice rate from on or about __________; the date of completion of the work, namely $________ , together with his costs of this action."

There is one other route available to your friend in many countries called a 'mechanic's lien' [pronounced 'leen']. Within a fixed amount of time, after which nothing in this part of law can be done, the contractor ('mechanic' just means contractor for the purposes of this law) can place a lien against the property he/she has improved by virtue of the work done to it.

A lien is a demand note, of sorts, that says before the owner can get any money from that property, its lien holders must be paid first.

So, for example, if your friend had worked on somebody's house and was worried that the client might not pay, he/she might quickly issue a mechanic's lien against the house by going to the civic property registration office and filling out the appropriate forms and paying the appropriate amount; and then the householder will not be allowed to get a mortgage, or chattel loan, or even sell the property that had been liened until the lien holder was paid off.

Since it costs time and money to place a lien, the cost of placing the lien is sometimes included as an additional amount that the client must pay to release it. However, some municipalities and some courts do not allow for this additional sum, so contractors generally only place a lien when the amount is large or if they actually have current possession of the subject property, such as a car that had been worked on by an auto mechanic but not released because the payment wasn't forthcoming.

Work orders made out to automobile mechanics often have a mini-contract on the back and must be signed by the owner before the work takes place. This mini-contract allows for an automatic placing of a lien until the auto mechanic gets paid for his/her services.

Local laws provide that there is a fixed period of time during which a lien may be placed. After that time has elapsed, the lien is no longer an option.

Now, go get 'em, kid! And best of luck to you both.

Mark

I know this will be an obscene word to some on here, but many talk radio stations carry a program called Handel on the Law. The host is Bill Handel, and he answers questions about legal matters from callers. His website is http://www.handelonthelaw.com/.

Hi, jfmart!

Just curious to know whether there are any updates on your friend's situation. Please let us know how it's going.

I was reading my response to the original question, and thought of a very interesting sidelight to the 'contractor's lien' concept.

Around here, if you call the fire department and they put out a fire at your house, the civic authority as exercised through the fire department has an automatic lien placed against the property that was worked on by the fire department; and the fire department automatically assumes possession of the property until it releases it back to the owner/resident either by word of mouth of a fire-fighting official or by an actual written realease.

The upshot of this is that folks who call the fire department should always be as courteous as possible and completely cooperative with the firefighters because once they start working on it, it's theirs by mechanics' lien until they release it back to you. And if you're not a nice customer, they have been known to take their time giving it back.

I think the main purpose of this application is probably to lend weight to the fire department's preventing people from moving back into a dangerous situation after a fire. But I have known them to use it to prevent meddling owners from making a nuisance of themselves, too.

Mark

Very interesting...

I know that they were placed on collections but ... I don't think that it worked

In this case I don't know if a lien can be placed without winning a judgment first ...

so if they want to pursue .... it I think they need to sue them first ... In order to be on the safe side ...

Thank you for all your help ...

I found one : http://www.freeadvice.com/