Built in failure mode - Made in China

Because as consumers, we won't pay more than a penny for them and we won't shop local. Wal-Mart stocks the cheapest crap China can make and when there are aren't anymore quality products to buy, we can sit around and whine like we do with the oil companies, about the situation we created. You don't have to boycott Chinese made or Wal-Mart, but if you see a local owned store it may be worth giving them your business. I find that it makes me feel better, even if it doesn't make a difference.

Either way it is up to us--China will deliver whatever we order.

Hello elnav

China's present "Quality Assurance or lack of it" situation is not an isolated case.

Because of the speed of change in China, there is opportunity for the untrained, experimental, or unscrupulous Company or person/s to make articles to sell.

Now, to go back a few centuries:

Glass, as supposedly the secret of the Venetians, was brought back from China, where it had been made for centuries. it did take the Venetians tens of years of experimentation to work out the correct mixtures and procedures, then they intended to keep that secret, under pain of death to a Venetian who told others how the glass was made.

Likewise into Europe with Gunpowder, Longbows and more.

So, because of the rapidity of change, things can only improve in the long term.

Meanwhile, there will be makers who turn out shoddy or dangerous goods, in China and elsewhere.

I do understand that people get angry, when their jobs disappear off-shore - that has happened here, mainly to the same place and other cheap labour countries.

There are articles made in China and other cheap labour Countries, which are of shoddy materials, and perhaps dangerous too, because of the lack of proper understanding re "Quality Standards" and "Quality Assurance" which upholds those same Standards.

For some Manufacturers who have translocated to cheap labour countries, they have been able to keep very tight control over the manufacture, and for those makers, extra profits become available, while still producing a high quality product.

The whole situation may be reduced to a matter of Honour, and some people have a shortage of that, trying to "Save Face", instead of accepting advice regarding the quality of the articles they make.

Kind Regards....

It used to be the case that professionals used professional equipment...

Nowadays I'm constantly seeing builders etc... using the cheapest power tools available...

When I've asked them why, they have all said its cheaper to buy a cheap one and throw it away than to buy an expensive one - price difference is a good 5 times, so I don't blame them...

The top nations seem to have become accustomed to accepting cheap items and throwing them away when they malfunction, as opposed to having them repaired - repair is often as costly as replacement, even for top of the range power tools.

As for myself, I never will buy anything expensive made in China again... if possible!

I bought an expensive air-conditioning instrument in 1998 two years later the compressor motor had burnt out, and that's when I found out it had been 'badged' with an English sounding name 'Clarke's' and there was no service available in this country - an expensive £550 to throw away after only a few months use over the 2 years!!!

John.

I get a sense of fatalism in the previous comments. The attitude seems to be; So what?. I'm sorry but that is not good enough. I am not about to sit still and watch my adopted country be destroyed as an industrial power or as a country that was at one time highly regarded as a prefered place to live. As our industrial base is undermined we lose the ability to do for ourselves, we lose the critical skills necessary to maintain our engineering base and without a suitable workplace for engineers and technologists to work how can we expect our next few generations to be proud of what they do. Man is a tool making animal. It has been a distinguishing characteristic since the dawn of civilization. But if you remove the opportunity and the means to exercise those skills, what do you end up with?

Nothing of the sort elnav...

Its not fatalism just the feeling of injustice that one feels when spending a lot of money on something and finding that there is no manufacturer or representative in this country to support it...From searching on the internet in 2000 I found the manufacturer in China, of course their web site was mostly in Chinese, but they had no overseas outlets and didn't respond to email enquiries.

So I have to wonder whether buying Chinese instruments / equipment is worth the risk, as it seems that someone imports a batch/container/shipload from China, sells it with an English badge on it for a vast profit and then disappears with the profit!!!

I'm not being fatalist about it I'm just stating the truth that there are many people making shed loads of money buying in stuff very cheaply, selling it for top price and then running off with the cash...

A bit like any capitalist entrepreneur maybe ???

Sorry, I don't understand the bit about 'your adopted country' are you Chinese working in Canada or vice versa??

John.

Electroman wrote: So I have to wonder whether buying Chinese instruments / equipment is worth the risk, as it seems that someone imports a batch/container/shipload from China, sells it with an English badge on it for a vast profit and then disappears with the profit!!!

REPLY

No it isn't! Much of the manufacturing in China is done by contract and lot bids. In other words each production run is unique. Next year you cannot order a duplicate of what you bought this year. Production is done by piecework and batch lot bids. In other words you will not be able to order a duplicate to whatever you bought this year. Each sucessive lot of goods brought over by container is made by whoever was the lowest bidder. Chances are its a different factory or supplier each time. Since each order is for a finite quantity of finished product, there is no provision for spares. Its not like the old system of factoring in "spares"" by a percentage or continuous production using the same part from known and reliable supplies. I am not even sure they they understand the concept of brand loyalty and brand name market recognition. Evidently they do not want to spend the effort to cultivate a corporate culture of quality so that people associate their corporate name with a particular level of quality. In today's global market, people have become accustomed to associating Sony and Honda with a known level of quality and also with expectations of continuing product refinement and improvements. The majority of chinese factories seem to prefer to remain faceless and hide behind some meaningless marketing name invented by some marketeer who has never seen the factory or the customers. In my industry even the best of the factories do not market their product under their own name. Only the more knowledgable buyers actually know that product abc is in reality made by factory xyz.

re 'adopted country" I was born in Europe but now live and work in North America. So my outlook is not exactly american, nor exactly european. But the world has begun global economic warfare and we must chose which sides we ally ourselves with. Its no longer east versus west. There is the Asian bloc, the European bloc, the African block and the American block. It remains to be seen which individual country allies themselves with which major bloc for trading purposes. Within any bloc there will be preferential trade agreements but outside there wil be trade barriers. Right now it seems there is a movement to undermine the other's economic base to place them at a disadvantage both in currency exchange and trading tariffs. If you can somehow disrupt their infra structure as well, so much the better. That will leave them dependent on you for some or most of the essential resources.

Personally I have yet to see a chinese clone of a product match the quality and performance of the original. Some of the things I have seen defy logic. Why build an electric motor and fail to provide lubricant for the bearings? How much does a few drops of oil cost? Premature failures leaves a very bad impression and a resolve to never buy that product again. As you have illustrated.

regards

Arild

I am not sure I understand what you are saying in your reply...

However, in the business I run I am constantly getting Chinese companies offering a container full of product at exceptionally cheap prices - very tempting, but I'm not in the consumer market so I don't bother.

But when I see the extraordinarily low prices being offered for delivery to my door, and the enormous profits available IF I were to ditch my idea of customer support and backup and just go for the quick profit... I can understand why some people do this.

John.

American companiez are the pioneerz uv junk products, so its unjust to condem China for doing the same thing. Anybody who purchased an American car made in the late 70z thru the early 90z had a good chance uv experiencing rediculous quality problemz. Remember the doors falling off the Chevy Baretta & Corsica?!

Many American companies sell krap, and they have alwayz had it made where ever the labour iz cheapest.

It really iz our fault. Wuts the parameter that gets top billing? PRICE. Its the 1st thing we look at wen buying sumthing & since we can't judge quality till AFTR we buy, its usually the deciding factor. All the other parameters combined dont influence the sales numberz az much. I think you could make a profit by putting cow turdz in a box & call them radioz IF you sold them cheap enuf since less than haf the customerz woud bother returning them to get their dollar back!

Guest: It would be interesting to know who you really are. You keep saying, "we" as though you were from the West. Judging from your amazing inability to spell English, your attitude, and repeated transposition of "S's" and "Z's" I should think you are Chinese in a Western cloak.

Ee iz probablyz a regular CR4 er juzt trying our patienze...

Hehehehehehe LOL I can't type like that for long!!!

Ohh and it definitely isn't me!!

John.

Or that! He, he, he!

Guest wrote: I think you could make a profit by putting cow turdz in a box & call them radioz IF you sold them cheap enuf.

Ah ha! you must listen to Candian country singer Stompin Tom Conners and his song Margo's got the Cargo and Reggies's got the rig! It is a perennial favourite!

Guest wrote: I think you could make a profit by putting cow turdz in a box & call them radioz IF you sold them cheap enuf.

Wait one second here, the History Channel had somethnig on this just last night. The use the turds to power radios and recharge cell phones.

I find it difficult to point the finger at the Chinese. I am constantly bothered by the fact that once sterling brands (electronic test equipment, consumer goods, washing machines, power tools, virtually any product class you can suggest) are now attached to junk. American brands that I would swear by maybe 10 years ago (and willingly pay a premium price for), I will not even consider- even if I am spending your money, not mine (I hesitate to mention the exact brands in a public forum for fear of being sued for defamation, but I would love to trade horror stories in private with anyone else with similar gripes). Other brands, once known for quality products (Maytag washing machines come to mind) just up and disappear, because quality does not compete well.

It is the consumer that drives the market to lower quality standards. Part of this is an inability to perceive quality or lack of education regarding what constitutes quality (no, Virginia, celebrity endorsement does NOT equate to quality!). What is frustrating is how hard it is to find products at ANY price today that are quality built and designed to last.

A man after my own heart. I also like to see why things break. In fact, a friend gave me a large fan, when I helped him move, but it didn't work. Since I have fixed them before, I said, "Sure, I'll take it." I have always been able to clean and grease them and, presto!, they worked. However, in this latest case, I was puzzled because it did not work. I also saw a strange looking chip of some sort with a number of wires going in and out of it. I assumed this was the culprit but had no idea as to why. I have also wondered if it was the place of manufacture or the designers that were to blame. Good article.

I am a stonemason and I am currently working for an industralist with a factory in China. He is really happy with them because he can specify the quality he wants and he gets it. He manefactures mission critical piping for corosive industrial processes. So I think the problem is in the standards set by the brand names who outsourse to china. The manefacturer is just following orders. All that is needed is to change the order somewhat and quality will rise to an acceptable level.

Gaiatechnician wrote: All that is needed is to change the order somewhat and quality will rise to an acceptable level.

REPLY sorry, I have to disagree based on my own personal experience. I have just found out that a million dollar project where the quality standard and construction details were spelled out in great detail has been bungled. The inspector hired by the customer has just informed the company that the project is not built to the specifications given in the contract. This news is not exactly surprising to me. However our company owners disregarded the best advice of myself and several others involved in the designing process. Given that the owner in charge of the chinese facility has professed a desire to produce quality work, I am left wondering if worker ineptitude is the cause.

A blanket condemnation of the quality of Chinese goods is no longer justified. In my own experience, I have chinese made items with quality ranging from abominable to excellent. Examples: a set of files that won't file - abominable A dial caliper that cost $10 and is the equal of any I have ever used - excellent. It is time to quit lumping all chinese made goods together, give credit to the good individual efforts. (bashing the bad stuff is still ok with me - in fact I encourage it - especially those damn files)

LG Dave wrote: It is time to quit lumping all chinese made goods together, give credit to the good individual efforts. (bashing the bad stuff is still ok with me - in fact I encourage it - especially those damn files)

REPLY: You are right. Now how do we figure out how to tell which name brand come from where. I have seen identical products but with different names on them sold by different vendors. No indication which part of the country or factory they come from. Is the identical appearance just a coincidence, or is it a case of sucessive batches being given different brand labels.

And when I do find a good one, how do I go back and ask for the exact same thing.

In a case like your file, can you even complain? More and more frequently I now see notices saying in event of problem do not return to vendor; contact 1-800 - - - - .

If there is a postal address it usually on the other side of the continent. No local service depot. It will cost more to pay shipping and return, than to buy another. In other words they just blew you off.

Complain to a Walmart manager. Har har har! He is just a higher level grunt but still just a wage earner with no real authority except to maybe give a refund. Doesn't do diddly and he isn't going to pass on your complaints, cuz his bosses won't hear of it.

How do you figure out who actually made something and how do you recommend them over the schlock makers?

Elnav,

The first time I complained about the damn files was in the above post. This makes me something of an enabler, I know. But for three bucks - what the hell! When I bought the files, they looked like a useful assortment for a bargain price. When I actually need one months later I wasn't inclined to follow up.

LG_DAVE

Another problem is that we do not inforce regulations anymore. Recently In the face of flamable babyware more flamable than the regulations permit anyways, (I think the regulator was health canada) issued a complaint to the manefacturers. There was no product recall, they were just asked to comply. Offenders were not even identified. Thats not good enough, and the same lack of spine probably comes into play with file hardness regulations, and drill bit regulations and it is probably evident in every national regulator in the world.

I would say that the Leaders of the Company, that applies their Brand to the product, are to blame for the quality of the product produced. I have bought tools to make a living with, and am aware of which Brands are a better deal, as far as commonly needed tools are concerned. In the US you cannot be sued for Libel unless you actually lie. From my experience Ryobi is a better deal than Black & Decker, and though DeWalt is a good Brand, it is overpriced in comparison to Ryobi. The story of the Chinese purchase of the Ryobi Brand is indicative of a Chinese understanding of the issue. The history of Japanese Manufactures is significant. They made what they made to make a living after being defeated, and in dire straits, and priced their goods according to the quality, raising their prices as they were able to increase the quality of their products. Lately some Bosch products seem overpriced to me. In general I believe human beings desire to do a good job, & make a good product. As a working man, I can only do what I have the tools and the time to do. I can get fired for doing more, just as easily as I can get fired for doing less. Taylorism is the rule of the industrial floor, and it is determined by the leadership. P.S. What Abraham Lincoln actually said was, "A Man Cannot Pull Himself Up By His Own Bootstraps." - "He only ends up with his ass in the air." :It was MacAurthur's shinning moment to govern Japan, and help them. I believe he loved Japan and Asia, and wanted it to do well.

It is very good discussion from beginning.

When we buy a product we check all the aspects of that product, if you feel that Chinese product are not to that standards , please don't procure them . No one make any compulsion to buy the Chinese product. Its we who have to decide which product to purchase .

True to the extent that there is actually any choice to be had. In far too many cases, the manufacturing has been totally outsourced, and no alternatives are even available. No matter what the price, the desire, the quality control by the purchaser, if the product cannot be had, then you are.

I expect we will see an improvement in time. In audio electronics there is a lot of Chinese manufactured equipment, some is junk, some is excellent. The same has been true of other countries, when I was a kid in the UK, American and Japanese equipment were both considered to be inferior to comparable European built equipment often with good reason (but with some notable exceptions). Some of this was prejudice, some was well founded.

I have had to use a fair amount of US built broadcast and studio equipment over the years. Much of this was built to lower standards (and cost) than the equivalent European or British products. (Again there were some notable exceptions on both sides of the water!)

On the whole professional American equipment is now of a comparable quality to anything else.

All this to say that even countries now considered excellent had a reputation in the past for low quality, but have manged to shed this today. I expect China will follow the same path, but it will take time.

We live in interesting times, to be competitive in mass markets means using cheap labour (except for highly automated manufacture), but this cannot last. The high stand of living and material possessions we enjoy in the west is based on cheap labour in other countries. As the stand of living rises in China and the developing world, wages will rise and manufacturing costs with them. Enjoy it while you can, we have have never had it so good - and probably never will again.

I know of a small pencil battery maker here, who to fight the cheap Chinese batteries ( the price was less than the local material cost), made all his rejected /lower end batteries with Chinese name and letters about 2 years back. Now his business is running good and no Chinese competetion other than his own chinese products.

use & through the basics of china product more product less quality & less price.

it is logic that if the product fails faster then the consumption will be more.

by the time the world realises one generation will be over

till then the user will be searching for the low price seller

Planned obsolescence has been with us for at least decades. Detroit made it a standard at one time.

I can still recall in the years after WWII when products from Japan were (sorry, it's politically incorrect, but historically accurate) referred to as "cheap Jap junk". The quality concerns were addressed remarkably well, to the point where cameras, electronics, automobiles, watches, etc., from Japan were the new world standard. Now the cheap labor market goes to China, and what I hear (sorry again, just repeating here) "cheap Chink crap". Maybe this too will pass. But unless there's some kind of fiscal parity achieved, we won't have the money to buy anything no matter how cheaply it's sold. Got to have a job to make a wage.