Are the Chinese cheating at the Olympics?

Judgement to what standards? And to what extent do you fight?

I almost submitted a long retort to this. Not worth it because it is so wrong.

Evil persists when good men do not do what??

I know... I know....

It's not a matter of acting. Good men should act. (and women)

I just don't support bashing when our own countries could also do much better. National pride seems to be awfully blinding when our own countries commit evil deeds.

I guess to just throw comments around on a forum could never delve into an in-depth issue like this. Let's just hope China grows out of it like many other countries have.

Injustice knows no borders. All deserve scrutiny and should be confronted.

For as long as I can remember, I have asked my children the following in response to their complaining.

What could you have done to make the situation better?

Without fail they called me an AH behind my back. Now after many years the three of them are aware they each have a way to make things better every day.

"If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem."

I only hope that in some small way that I can make some positive changes.

This thread is actually both funny and disturbing.

Firstly, who actually believes that Phelps is not on drugs? Along with many other athletes.

Secondly, why can't the yanks take a beating fair and square ? You have had a state run monolpy on the olympics for many years and now it has come to an end and you do not like it. Well tough

If in doubt blame the chinese or the french - what a shower of idiots you are.

Where did you go to school??

What ? Are you really that stupid ? I am asking because I thought it was impossible to be living and also that Stupid - well I suppose thats the reason why you should not marry your sister, no doubt a common activity in your part of the world !!!.

I suppose there is nothing better to do in the upper mid west than to marry your next of kin and chew tabacca with your brother Cletius.

You are the reason why they should not let teenagers post on the CR4.

The manner in which you are posting discredits you.

Hey, don't make him older (mentally!) than he is, he won't be a teenager for years to come!!! If ever......

It is not my intention to actually insult the guy. I just want to make the point that he's getting a little too insulting in his posts over something that he doesn't with.

It's like he's bringing cannons to a knife fight.

In my personal opinion I think every country has done things to favor their teams to some extent.

East Germany in the 1976 Olympics pumped up the women's swim team with steroids. I'm not mention that because you're in Germany, but because I read an article not too long ago about those athletes experiencing a lot of problems due to the steroid treatments and it's still fresh in my mind.

North Korea judges judged heavily in favor of North Korean Athletes, when the Athletes themselves had obviously lost, and gave low scores to the other countries.

I'm was impressed with China in the case where this Chinese girl did some singing with such a good voice she was getting a lot of public praise and attention for it. The Chinese came forward and admitted that the pretty little girl was only lipsyncing the song because they felt the actual singer of the song wasn't appealing to the camera.

I don't hear any kind of cheating accusations of U.S. Athletes and that might be due to our media filtering it out.

If China is pure and clean about stealing patents and product rights, why not the same with stealing medals.

Bob c, you asked (quite correctly):-

What can you do to make the situation better?

I think the only answer that would fit is for him to grow up!!

Nothing more, nothing less...

I really don't care if he is 13, 20, 35 or 40 or older in years. But mentally he seems to have stopped at about 8 or 9 years old.....Max!

At least I can say I tried.

Good Answer.

Dragon

Oh guest, you sound like a person that I ran across in another thread last month, who ended up going with the moniker of 'guest ass', willingly even. You are fitting into that category buddy. What is with the name calling, insults and everything else that is spewing forth from your brain?!? I do not know why anyone in this thread gives anything that you have to say an ounce of recognition, thought, or credence - seeing as you are hiding in anonimity as a GUEST. Chewing ska with a fictional brother named Cletius would be a far cry better than reading any sort of response from the likes of you; although, I think the name would be Cletus.

Ferris

Guest:

What's funny and disturbing is you didn't have the balls to sign your post.

Phelps on drugs? I presume you mean performance-enhancing drugs. If so, and he were taking them, I imagine they would have been detected in the required daily testing (as they have been in other athletes during these games). Occasionally, an athlete with the physique, drive, desire, discipline and opportunity to compete in the sport for which he or she is ideally suited comes along and when that happens, it is a pleasure to watch; regardless of nationality.

We yanks can take a beating (and be gracious in defeat) if the playing field is level or only slightly tilted in favor of the opposition but the one thing you can bet on is we'll never give up, regardless of the obstacles.

Now, what is really tragic is the amount of money (reportedly the equivalent of $40 billion or so U.S. dollars) that China has spent to host these Olympics. The results have been spectacular, regardless of all the other things that have transpired. I don't know how much income the Olympics will generate for China and, if that income benefits the majority of Chinese citizens, perhaps the investment was worth the displacement and the disruption of the lives of thousands of Chinese citizens who were impacted and maybe that income will also improve the lives of those living in squalor within sight of the Bird Nest, Water Cube and other structures built specifically for the Olympics. If history is any guide, I doubt that will happen. That's the real tragedy.

Hey Moron which guest are you talking too. If you truly are an engineer then you should be more accurate in your response.

Regards

Del (oh damn I did not mean to write that)

Dear Regards,

In the upper right hand corner, you'll find "In reply to #40".

It was only Del sodding about!!! Nothing better to do, you know how cats get sometimes!!

Phelps on drugs? I presume you mean performance-enhancing drugs. If so, and he were taking them, I imagine they would have been detected in the required daily testing (as they have been in other athletes during these games).

My friend you are not realistic and re conveniently ignoring history. There were some recent cases where these "super" athletes have been found guilty of doping many years after the competitions. They lost their medals but only after stealing the glory and the millions of dollars in publicity contract from others. It didn't really matter a few years later.

For example: Do you remember the long nails American sprinter who won everything? She made a killing with the newest drugs available before they were banned. Good medical supervision too. No athlete can afford this on their own. She was backed up and many people keep quiet.

Many athletes from advanced country cheat because the rewards are enormous. They are helped by their country's sport infra-structure. That is a fact of life.

Instead of playing cat and mouse, we should tell them "dope as much as you want but remember that this might end your life" Then it will be the best science that will win. It already is for a large part.

Wow, you are really clever - you actually deduced that I meant "performance-enhancing drugs" when I simply wrote "drugs". My faith in engineers has been restored !!!!

Oh, bye the way you can only test for drugs that you actually know about. Do you think the US will have invested millions of tax payers money into Phelps to run the risk that he does not win and break all records.

Perhaps this post should be retitled "Which countries are not (tyring to)Cheating"

you are the one on drugs...those that make you dillusionary..give you hallucinations,,and make you sound extremely stupid...we yanks can take a beating but this one is not fair and square...when you are in doubt..which sounds like often..you blame the yanks..the french..where did they come into play..in one of your hallucinations...please go to rehab...

I swear, Your Honor, she said she was 18, and she sure looked it!

The rules used to not include aminimum age requirement for female Gymnist. The Russians had a long run of little girls win, starting with Olga Korbit. Then the world decided that having millions of horny old guys sitting around watching 12 and 13 year old girls priss around in skimpy outfits was not a good thing therefore age limits. No one watches mens synchronized diving except a few weirdos so no limits...

Wow, the anger. Personally don't enjoy the olympics anymore like I did when I was a child and idealistic..and not due to being an engineer. I happen to be Canadian-American, so not surprised at all about the Canadian remarks..especially the unnecessary belittling. I am just really tired of the narrow mindedness.

Whats a Canadian-Americian ? Is it like a tall dwarf or a small giant ?

FYI: the Americas are two Continents! Includes: Mexico, Ecuador, Peru, Argentina, Brasil, &al.

Point's well taken charsley99. GA

"How did we get to where we are?"

Looks like Evolution, to me.

GA

This was mentioned during the TV coverage the other night - that perhaps passports or other documents used to verify age had been falsified by the government. I thought to myself that some of the athletes (especially Chinese female gymnasts) looked <12 years old. But I also thought to myself that if a 12-year-old can perform that well at that level, why not?

"Cheating" means taking unfair advantage - which would surely come with greater age and longer training, not less. Apart from the possibility of injury, and the violation of established rules, the performances themselves have been stellar! And while some events might benefit from perfomance-enhancing drugs, I know of none that improve grace and agility.

I heard on a radio talk show they were going over this same subject and apparently there are some birth records of these girls available and they commented that on one of the records, that 90 days before one of the girls turned 16, she was 13.

Oh, they're doin' the TIME WARP again!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdu7xoHU9DA

answer to your p.s. - yes I think there would be a discussion. There was still questionable scoring, across the board. This is more of a flagrant disregard then the debacle that occured when the french judges sided with the russians in the last witer olympics. Questionable scoring in the gymnastic prgrams towards the chinese, the swimmer who jumped the gun but wasn't ruled as disqualified until the competitors finished their swim and complained about it...

Ferris

You said it indel

GA from me

Bricktop,

I agree that rules are rules and should apply to everyone equally. But so far, the only place I have found any reference to underage Chinese contestants in the Olympic Games is on this CR4 forum. Mind you, I don't spend all of my day watching news of the Olympics, so I may have missed something. Does anyone know if these allegations have any validity?

If they don't, then perhaps we should put this thread to rest.

The OP, and #45 have made references to Yahoo. Have you read them? The Yahoo made references to other news sources, but I have not gone and read them.

Yes, I have read the Yahoo commentaries. I have not followed up on the other news sources, but I have seen nothing in my local newspaper and heard nothing on my local news media. I would imagine that if the allegations are confirmed, all hell will break loose. Wouldn't you agree bob c?

If the last version I read is true, the athletes stated that the passports are the correct dates of birth, and that the other dates that were submitted at other competitions were in error. Further supporting this claim is the fact that some gymnastics regulating board that the girls have competed in previously has had their birth dates the same as the dates listed for the Olympics today. My feeling is that unless some additional documentation on these girls is revealed soon, this will be just a conversation subject whenever the 2008 Olympics are talked about. And because the government issues the documents it does not seem likely to happen.

If there is a problem respecting birth dates of the athletes, it will come out. The claim has not been substantiated or corroborated by any reliable news source. If and when it is, further comment on the part of CR4 members may be appropriate. Until then, it is not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/27/sports/olympics/27gymnasts.html

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-Olympics/idUSSP25419620080804

It's all over the world press actually.

Google it, I got 726,000 hits.

All of the reports you cited indicate that China denies that the athletes are under age. And the athletes themselves deny it.

If the underage claims are true, the IOC should be ruling on the matter, not CR4.

I don't see anyone here at CR4 passing down any "rulings". This is a legitimate discussion about a recent news story, nothing more, nothing less. In the free world anyway, we have the right to express our opinions at will. Here at CR4, we have the privilege to post them on this forum. If you think this discussion is "out of bounds" for CR4, you have every right to state your case to the editor.

Is it your opinion that the media should just go away, and the populations of the world should automatically believe what governments feed them?

It is my opinion, since you ask, that the athletes in question should be given the benefit of the doubt until evidence is produced to show that they are cheating. In the absence of that, they are being tried by the press without proof of wrongdoing and they are being persecuted by you.

And the athletes themselves deny it.

To this day O J maintains his innocence.

China is still a "communistic" police state. So i guess it is possible that they cheat, just like USSR, DDR, Romania and other communistic states did before.

But then again the western countries have also their share of cheating incidents.

When money and prestige are involved they all cheat (IMHO)

Hi, bricktop,

I can say you really be a top brick

I dont know what the base line of age for the games is , but I believe that rule cannt be broken.

In fact, you dont know china and our system. once you are aware of it. you will not ask such stupid or funny question.

Chinese spend lots of money and spirit on the olympic games. they know its heavy weight. they will not dare to make fun at liberty.

They know there are many people hope to abuse. so they must make every thing seriously.

I dare to say, you cannt find any fault in this games organization, action and disipline etc.

but I cannt say every thing is satisfactory. I think the committee is too dilate upon it and show off. they take a special aeoplane to flight over world for such small fire lantern. its unnecessery. it polluted air and waste money. this money can make many chinese poor children to get more good education.

the opening ceremony is good. magnificant, no other countries than china can made such huge situation. only china can call on so many casts play on the stage. but Im afraid not every chinese like this ceremony. It hasnt completely reflected the theme of chinese people industrious, brave,his culture and modern achivements. and less science and tech in it.

the signal of coverage is not good enough so that we cannt see many scene details. totally I think its not bad. and have a good creation.

some people ask me what the thing they knocked at first scene is? In fact I dont know what it is. after explain, I know it called ' Fo" an ancient chinese instrument. but in fact. its not. its only new mixture. but we still call it 'Fo". haha.

lets see the match. lots of wandrful instant and break world record.

next, if I have time I can introduce you some story about chinese people's age's calculation way.

Well here is some proof

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-flumenbaum/scandal-of-the-ages-docum_b_118842.html

I am not bashing China, Lots athletes world wide use forbidden enhancements.

the secret police did not do their job well

I can't understand what you are talking about. I can't access to the site, in spite of I try again. I wish you needn't to provoke any event.

everyone who watch sports match on TV will know this drug. nervous stimulant.(how to speak in English?)

every past Olympic games had such report records. to provide a health for athletes and insure fair play, international organization reinforces anti-excitant detect. despite of this , this games still has two examples, two athletes was detected and medals were cancelled at once. where they are from? you can check out from newspaper recently.

In this games, Chinese athletes will dare not to make fun in their politics life.

I did not provoke anything, you stated that China would do such thing but there have been incidents before by China and other countries.

I can access the link just fine, maybe censored by the Chinese government?

I state again, the pressure to win will make many countries resort to well "bending" the rules.

There are lots of web servers on the internet, thouisands of thousnds of documents are bewilding, we cannt viist and browse every one file, even profiles. I dont know what happened if I cannt visit some web sites, but Im content with seeing most of science and tech web sites on the net. thats enough.

even a child in china knows that olympic games rules cannt be broken.

I believe the fact that the olympic games committee knows their rules more better than you all!!

if there is something wrong happened in china in this games, this committee will cancel those gamsts medals. neednt your cry out.

"even a child in china knows that olympic games rules cannt be broken."

Sure nobody breakes the rules, ever

Read the post after mine by sparkstation (the internet news page that you could not read), there are some hints that maybe, just maybe that the olympic rules can be broken.

Better talk engineering stuff as our political views do "slightly" differ

I don't know what your politics viewpoint is and do you know mines? so where is " slightly difference "? I'm odd.

I can imagine now what you are talking about and emphasizing again here in that composition you listed. I see Sparkstation's text post below, but its pity I'm not capable to read and comprehend it. I can guess that you wish that Chinese gymnasts break some rules. but Olympic committee seems hasnt expressed any attitude that chinese girls broken their rules. Have you ever seen it? show me.

Dont worry about. I can see these official files. no problem. Im waiting now.

anyone include sparkstation can also offer this material.

Well the way you defend by high an low, that it is not possible that a member of a chinese member would cheat, is evidence enough IMO.

I did not wish that the Chinese gymnasts break some rules, but the paper evidence and visual evidence are very obvious.

The pictures are straight links from the news site and you cannot read them or a willing to read them because of your goverment censoring the newssite.

I stated before that i believe other countries would cheat if they have the chance, so please be less confrontational.

Hello again, cnpower

Sorry that your Government has evidently censored/banned my Post, so you could not read it.

You seemed genuinely concerned at your inability to access and read the article.

I did place it there, not so you would 'lose face', or be embarrassed, but so you could see the information you which was on the Website you were also banned from, and understand why people are upset.

In that Copy/Pasting of the original banned webpage, I was trying to assist you.

Evidently the Internet censorship, along with banning access to important information by the Government of the Country you live in, is far greater than we both realized.

Perhaps my Posts are now on the "Banned in China" list.

Kind Regards from far away....

I, for one, have enjoyed the contributions of cnpower on other posts and value his continued membership on CR4. I also value the contributions of Sparkstation and many of the other CR4 members with whom I have disagreed on this particular thread.

Since it seems unlikely that we will resolve this issue on this forum, I propose that we put it aside...to argue about it in the afterlife...if there is one.

We also talk about such topic, but are in leisure time, chat during drink tea, in cafe room etc like a fun. never take it serious. we call it " lacy news"

We all enjoy sports wonderful match. sometimes we criticize while watching. we even dont know some match items rules, like fenceplay( swordplay), softball or baseball etc. we event dont knwo how much scores the players get, but we enjoy their performance. sometime we still seat in frontof tv set even dont notice the game is over. all is only for entertainment.

But here somebody seems has no brain and act them as a judge to say this or that. it seems that only they are right. just act as same as our porters do.

I wish they will have been an official of the committee one day.

I can say to my friends, look at that man, he has ever been our vr4 roommate.

many concern this topic, but less people like to talk about the hi tech at this games. wonderful matches and how about next games in london.

is this cr4?

here are the pictures from that news article

its kind of you to take so much force to post the pic. I see them now.

Wonderful pose she perform! I saw all their perform, include those from america, russia and canada etc. but I forget if there is any japanese girls paticipate in it. I remember japan man gam match.

I cheered for all of their wonderful acts. Have you all watch that performance? how do you think?

haha, its only a very ordinary paper, I dont think there is any reason for china goverment to shield it? it must be something wrong wirh sparkstation's computer. orsome other things took place. even a stupid man dont do such foolish things.

you all seem too sensitive. nobody believe it.

Politics ASIDE!; She is a lovely young lady, & she has done her part to perfection. We all wish her nothing but the best.

We seem to have forgotten that these are fellow humans, that have labored very dilligently; kudos to their personal accomplishment.

Lady Shady...if you know what I mean!

If this really is not just a girl, then why all the face paint to make girlface look like lady (of the boudoir) face?

Even so, the best way out of this in the future for IOC is to eliminate the age requirement altogether; and, instead, use handicap system which would consist of adding weights to wrist, ankle, and waist band...only it would operate the opposite of horse handicapping...the lighter, the more handicap weight...so that strength is pitted against equivalent strength; leverage against equivalent leverage...and so on. And no, this would not be unfair at all, since it's a virtual certainty that these diminutive, ultralight PRC contestants have been trained using just such kinds of handicaps. You would simply be "letting" them do their exhibits under the same conditions under which they trained. As it is now, the breach of the development rule has essentially served to boost performance out of the norm in a natural, but nevertheless equivalent, manner as using chemical enhancements.

If the parents in China want to howl about loss of face for their little girls, they ought to look at their own roles in bringing about that loss of face. And for their own loss of face, they can thank the coercion of their own, faceless state government.

Will the real CN Power...please stand up!

Gary Moore

More: Ha! Evelybody no get!

Morgan: Mr. CNPower ghostwriter play good fool we all!

Myerson: Oh my. Never learn Chinglish.

Kilgallen: Bess have too much stuff on chest, no stuff on brain.

More: Be nice, Bess, we send you china be gymnast.

I gladly did it to a prove a point and it did, you just ignore it.

I believe it is true, because china has done it before.

You cannot accept that maybe there is cheating going on.

But you will probably not change your point of view.

But on the performance of the Gymnasts, yes it was great, they did a wonderful performance.

I was only disappointed by the behaviour of the American when she received her medal, she only smiled when she was supposed too.

I am Not Japanese. i am Dutch

I loved it when a Dutch guy won Bronze in Judo and was as happy as if he had won the Gold medal

Yesterday the gymnastics competetion is over, the first apperance gymnast is from Germany. he is handsome, like a big chiild , but he was unflapped and composed. he awarded a bronze medal. the netherlander performs also wonderful, but its pity, he falled to pad. otherwise he was sure to own a medal. I like them all.

Speaking to Judo, I dont understand its rules, but I know its deduced from China wushu (matial arts) but I still saw the coverage. a japanese woman was failed by a " yiben". this is the scene.

Just like a good friend in Holland as long as we do not talk about politics we can get along

Judo is like wrestling Japanese style, it has not much to do with wushu. as far as i know wushu has not many grapple techniques (correct me if i am wrong).

You get points by throwing an opponent with or getting the opponent in a hold on the ground from which they cannot escape

CNpower why are there not more Chinese sports in Olympics? Judo is Japanese, Karate is Japanese, Tae-kwon-do is Korean. why is ther no wushu or other Chinese martial arts? (correct me if i am wrong) the only Chinese sport i can think of is Soccer.

Holland people is great, they are like to help others.

Judo is origianlly from chinese wushu (or some people call it " gongfu", same things)

its really true. most likely from south of china wushu. Janpanese judo master admit it. no problem. you are really wrong. I can tell you later, little by lttle.

I know it. every amphitryon(?) ( host country) can add their own traditional sports, so that they can get more gold medal, this is also a olympic rule.

but chinese broke this rule this time. it s also true.

just think, chinese athelets are getting so many medals, if add wushu, who can match with us? thats meaning, alll gold medals are ours.

others will sad at the item. that s why we give up it. so that other countries can get more medals. we need joy, not medal, need friendship, not fame.

that is reason.

chinese take part in the almost all items, include soccer, but fail. our football team si very wrost.

I do not worry about it, Holland a small country has allready 4 gold medals.

Our female Hockey players won also gold yesterday yaay!

You forget there are also a billion Indian people waiting to add their sports and sports people to the olympics (i really did not know that india also passed the billion people mark)

i would not mind to see some shaolin soccer (great movie by the way)

But seriously Judo & Karate may have their origin in China, but they have not much to do with original wushu anymore IMO.

I would like to see some more typical asian olympic sports.

No demonstrationsports this year it seems;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonstration_sport

Everybody concerns his country's medal.

serveral years ago, india population broke out a billion. Im afraid they will go over china.

Judo and karate and etc are all from china. no problem. but they change more and more, some of them even different from china sushu ways. more attacks characters than wushu.

sholin soccer and shaolin boys etc are all comedy movies. I see them a little, we also shot one or two such movies in the past.

most of people in the world know china is from such movies.dvd. chinese gongfu is well known in the world. especially teenages.

Old Chinese saying: What a crock!

Hi, Sparkstation, you are easy too sensitive to forget some facts like web design skills.

its not all web site allow you to use copy and past function. if you wish to save pages of some web site, will be denied by their design skill.

some time I have to use view code function for my lazy copy. trouble, but I can only do it for my copy. and as well as pic!

if you don't use other way, you cannot paste the pic copy. this is well known by our "older surfman" , so why don't check out your paste at first, then condemn? you dont alway think you can see on your computer and others can see as well.

I believe there is censorship in every country in the world. even in your Newland and America. sometime this system may be necessary, for countless gubbish is full on the net. as well as yellow and violent web sites.

Do you enjoy these pages and pics fulfilling in your computer?

don't forget I told you I can see your text. but I m not capable to read it. haven't you read it? or you avoid it.

BTW, no an engineer likes to read such long useless material.

and you seems foget what is entertainment. and such topic I always think such low topic can only be ocuring at the table during rest, drink tea and theaters etc. and you hvnt reply my question how people deal with hi tech sport facility in the match?

are they playing fair?

Hello again, cnpower

Thank you for your advised information re your "missing pictures and other details".

The Copy/Pasted information has been checked by me with four (4) different Internet Browsers: Firefox, Internet Explorer, SeaMonkey, Opera.

With all those Browsers, all the Copy/Pasted information is complete, with all text, hyperlinks, pictures and associated Notes.

Perhaps you are using a different Browser, and if that is so, I would recommend you obtain an alternative Internet Browser, for use on such occasions when browsed materials are "invisible or blank".

If you are using any of the above four Browsers, then there is only the single conclusion to be made: Banning/Blocking/Censoring at the China Portal.

If you have an alternative Browser to the four listed above, please advise, and I shall check it with the Browser you are using.

Copy/Paste does work well, in most Internet Browsers, for all material.

I have tried to assist you, to the best of my ability, and trust you accept that.

From the Supracontinent of Zealandia, most of which is 2kM below present mean sea level.

Kind Regards....

Hi, Spartsation,

Thank you for you effort at first to let me see that pic as possible as you can. Is it very useful for r you to do that? what will it indicate? if you hope help me, there are lots of ways to do. Can you do or will you like to do?

You said you try several browsers to test the pic. I wonder if you are a fresh surf on the net?

you use so many years computer. do you forget the information that ever display on your screen can be store in temp ram or cookies. no matter how and what situation you are, you can easily and fast see the information. so you said you use even over hundred browsers is also funny and just cheat children.

what you do is only ask others and check if its. not by your own computer.

BTW, do you know what is access speed? what is information capacity or amount? what different from text and pic? once you know it, you will not suspect why such situation could be occurring.

back a step, what you want to show me is only indicate that some chinese gymnasts has some problem and have probability to break some rules? is it useful? or is it very important? you can say any things, I agree to that dare to doubt any thing. but judge is still the committee. we have to listen to them, not you and me. most likely we don't know true rules of the sports. you , me and others. but we can critical as we like.

I receive your Zealand map. not bad, it made me to remember my middle school life. at that time we all laughed at the Zealand. becuse it represent 3 places in chinese. it s a chinese story. I can tell you all next. but I hope to forget the story.

so before you urgently show off yourself, you'd better think, is something wrong with your side.

you hvnt answer my question yet.

I will attest that i was able to view.

I will attest that i was able to view.

Cnpower, I can read everything Sparkstation puts on his posts. (I do not always want to, but that is another story )

Perhaps, the difference in operating systems and translation programs are at fault.

Regards Dragon

Get off their case...
USA is happy enough to have Phelps showing he can swim fast in lots of different ways...I say they should add the doggy paddle to the next olympics so he can win even more golds.
No body whinges about him or cries 'not fair'

It smacks of ..'if we don't win everything we'll whinge about it' and I thought it was GB who were the 'whingeing Poms'

Del

Good point Cat. If there were infractions, we should just let it slide. Why worry, it's only a small thing and that can't make that much of a difference, right?

Sort of like Russia, if they were wrong to invade Georgia, so what. It's only a small country anyway and that can't make that much of a difference, right?

Sort of like Germany annexing Austria in 1938. It was just a little thing and no one really raised an eyebrow. After all, why worry, it's only a small country anyway and that didn't make that much of a difference, right?

Hello Del the cat

Kind Regards....

See my post #91 in this thread for my own take on this...I'm still unsure how it would be "cheating"...

From your Post #91; ""Cheating" means taking unfair advantage -..."

From Wikipedia; "Cheating (also called gulling) is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition."

Everyone that participates at the event agrees on a set of common rules. When someone agrees to the set of rules, but knowingly does not follow those rules, that is what we call cheating.

So, if you and your wife agree to a set of rules for your marriage, but your wife has an extramarital affair, I assume you would be clear with that definition?

It smacks of ..'if we don't win everything we'll whine about it' and I thought it was GB who were the 'whinging Poms'

Nonsense—which means, I would have expected better; which is to say: an appeal to emotional logic which was a little more stiff lipped and a little less USA-left-coast-like. If any trait characterizes Americans—perhaps superlatively in the world—it is the ability and willingness to admire individual talents and performance no matter where they arise. But, in like manner as the USSR, GDR, (and even Iraq and the Hussein boys) in their day, it would be naive to think that China's coercion (in various forms) of its "state" athletes has very much, if anything, to do with their personal fulfillment; and not more to do with with achievement at any price for the glory of the Chinese ruling elite and its world-order dogma, with a bit of race superiority thrown in for home consumption. Would one have expected such a controversy in other than a neo-stalinist state? Say, in United Kingdom?

And what of the other gymnasts competing, including those Americans? Ought their free-choice aspirations, personal sacrifices and efforts also take a back seat to the dictates of the Chinese state, and that with the callous disregard of their own coaches, parents and supporters...just because the country they represent is the US? Would we expect the same coolness in the face of unfair play, then, from Britons in the same situation?

As to the rule itself, no doubt made in part to halt the further degeneration of the sport into a freak show--would it be strictly an American defect of sensibility to not fail to notice something out of the ordinary in a Tom Thumb sized competitor who is paraded out in big top regalia, all painted up to both show and disguise, as if performing on the circus highwire?

Can disdain for Phelps, with his strange mannerism and overreaching greed be justified? Perhaps. But he in particular, and Americans in general, cannot be faulted because his success was gained at the public trough from government subsidies and cradle to grave assurances. At worst, he is a freak who made his own way onto the podium.

That said, ought there be way by which to accommodate the little gymnast's participation in deception? Certainly so (I would agree), but as a expedient only...with the view to a day when China's illustrious performers (and China itself) is no longer motivated out of lust for racial superiority; and by fear and paranoia both private and public.

UG...awaiting insult

As I read these posts I can't help but think of what happens when people, countries, and other entities act irresponsibly...Their freedom is taken away.

Perhaps there will be no Olympics since no country can play fair?

Perhaps guests will not be allowed to post since they can not play fair?

Perhaps our freedom of posting on CR4 will be censored because we can not post in a responsible, civil manner.

I for one am very disappointed with recent posts being full of such vile bitterness. We used to exchange ideas in a civil manner. Any insults were so full of wit, you had to stop laughing before you could be insulted by them. Come on CR4 crew...and guests, clean it up. And lets promote fair play regardless of our country of origin!