Are the Chinese cheating at the Olympics?

One assumes the IOC would have checked out their paperwork. Who knows, maybe they're of age, maybe their papers are forged. It wouldn't be the first time someone has cheated at the Olympics - and it won't be the last. Of course it may be the first time a country has cheated by beating "adults" with children.

Count me among the jaded who view the Olympics as a competition between those who are "Faster, Higher, Best Juicer".

I don't mean to take anything away from them at all. They are certainly the best in the world at what they do. Perhaps it would be best, in the future, for the IOC to change this rule. Gymnast's seem to peak at a much earlier age than other athletes. However, state sponsored cheating is, although not unprecedented, still unacceptable.

They are the best in the world at what they do! So, for Pete's sake (not Stinky Pete's sake), why don't we remove the age barrier altogether? Let anyone compete in this world competition, regardless of age. If ten year olds can beat thirty year olds in any type of athletic competition, what the heck, let them do it!

What the world really wants to know is who is the best at every and any competition. Remove the age limit! Let the best be observed! And let the best win, regardless of age!

I agree with ba/ael, that the age limits should be removed.

But for the time being, rules are rules and cheating is still cheating.

I have been watching the gymnast tonight and it appears that there is more cheating going on in the scoring.

But as long as you have human beings judging, there is always going to be cheating.

Okay, maybe, but the rules were set long before the events and everyone else has been playing and training by them. It is wrong to circumvent them, if that has been the case.

However, there are other rumblings of "cheating" that are not age related.

This Olympic event has been tarnished by lip syncing, CGI fireworks, unfilled grandstands, and political symbolism that have diminished what the Olympics stand for.

The only interest I have in it now is I wonder what the next one will be like in Russia.

Unfortunately, the Olympics does not stand for excellence in athletics, but national breast beating (image) and money.

London is not in Russia!!! You should learn geography!!!

hey lead editor, When I was watching synchronized diving, I heard that one of the kids was 14 years old! Why is there a discrimination between the sync diving age and gymnastic age requirement? You seem to know a lot. Please reply at ramkiyengar@netscape.net

"In an effort to protect the health of athletes whose bones and muscles have not fully formed, FIG years ago instituted the 16-year-old age minimum"

quoted from: http://sports.yahoo.com/olympics/beijing/gymnastics/news?slug=dw-gymnastsage081408&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Mark

GA but too factual to be of interest to most

The above article should be required reading for anyone posting here.

Proving that the official paper work is incorrect will be hard.

In sheep one can count the teeth and determine the age. I am not sure what can be counted in people.

Maybe there is a test similar to "arm over the head and touch the ear"

Hi Hendrik - I would think the degree to which the DNA has broken down over sixteen years of human growth would be a scientific measure of age, and so something to consider.

Not sure if folks in the genetics world have come up with a method to measure this with any amount of certainty. If there exists such a test, it seems plausible to me that the IOC would consider adding this to the drugs and gender testing they already do for other sports.

It's sad (to me, at least) that these kids, who come from desperate poverty and see competing in gymnastics as a way out, might get exploited by a national team. Also, nutrition in poorer parts of China isn't what it is here in the developed world, and so maybe that's a factor in making them look young from a western perspective.

-april05

I'd expect that said 'poor nutrition' would inhibit muscle, connective tissue, bone, & nervous system development, from an athletic viewpoint more than just a human 'getting along' w/ life.

Hello Bricktop,

Could be you are dating yourself or perception

Here in the south they have passed laws against dating yourself or family members.

I don't believe it.

I have been in Clark County Arkansas and I swear there's been inbreeding happening around there.

In California it's legal to marry a first cousin.

In California it's not necessary, however.

Hello Bricktop

China has been caught cheating before, with gymnasts and swimmers.

They gave many selected children growth-suppressing drugs, and performance-boosting drugs for long periods.

The results were strong muscular development, with minimal growth, and exceptional physical performances.

Sadly, for those children, their lives will be short, in later years if they live that long, they will be crippled, because of the drugs, and the long-term physical overloading of their improperly developed muscular-skeletal systems.

Kind Regards....

Hogwash! They are simply better than us at gymnastics, swimming and diving! Their performances are an inspiration to behold. Please... give credit where credit is due. Lose the sour grapes.

Sour grapes my ass. Play by the rules or shut up and go home.

They are playing by the rules you twit.

How do you figure that they are playing by the rules? Those girls look 12 years old because they probably are. I didn't call you any names, so please return the cutesy.

I do not judge a girl's age by her appearance. To do so would certainly be fallacy! Chinese girls in particular can look much younger than they actually are. Some of them are very cute girls...there...I have returned the cutesy!

I didn't start by judging the girls age by apperance. The thread was started by the Yahoo post, did you read it? And I didn't discredit anyone. See post #2.

O.K. Bricktop, I will go back and review the Yahoo post, although I did scan it earlier. You did not discredit anyone, but at the same time, you call into question the honesty of an entire country...a country which is having some difficulty in establishing itself as a site for the Olympic Games. So far as I am concerned, they have done extremely well, not only in the opening ceremonies, but in the events themselves. I would be very disappointed if it is now determined that they were cheating in any of these events.

So what? What is wrong with buying something for a cheaper price if it looks the same and performs nearly the same? Why people get so upset on little things? Let'e be less bias and face the fact that China is about to become a supreme power not by sponsoring useless wars or messing other contries affairs. They have proved in manny way to be equal to us if not better in thecnology and arts. Let's just understand that world is made not just by America or can not be viewed only in the American perspective. It would such an awfull place is that would be the case.

So it's OK to steal IP?

If you had been working for the company that had convinced it's employees to do without pay increases while they developed a new product for the growing auto market in China, how would you have felt about the introduction of the Chery?

As for looks the same, performs nearly the same, go to some of the automotive experts that earn a living evaluating vehicles, and ask them. Most of the larger auto magazines have an electronic version available on line. Take your pick.

They have proved in manny way to be equal to us if not better in (stealing) thecnology and arts

So what? What is wrong with buying something for a cheaper price if it looks the same and performs nearly the same?

Written from an employed person, but if guest were to become unemployed due the subject of this conversation would the principle be seen before it slammed down on his/her own head?

"China is about to become a supreme power not by sponsoring useless wars or messing other countries affairs."

Have you told the people of Taiwan this?

TIBET?

Yes. Sorry, I lost my train of thought.

what are you smoking...............crack...some people base their opinions of others on such wonderful things as honesty, compassion, fairness, empathy, loyalty, dignity, some of us sleep at night instead of staying awake wondering how we can cheat, lie and steal our way into the lead...killing dissenters is a way of life for some..and it begins with the lie, the cheating, wake up..the world is made up of good and bad...just because bad comes in first sometimes does not make it right or palatable.

Your are a guest who knows nothing of substance, as evidenced by your words the very same which you as writer do not understand. You have joined a conversation which is demonstrably over your head and beyond your knowledge level.

You mean you are actually watching the Olympics. I thought engineers and scientists had better things to do than watch a bunch of underage girls vaulting and swinging on bars.

How dare you suggest that engineers and scientists are not as sophisticated as anyone else in the world! Who the hell do you think you are?

And what do underaged girls have to do with anything?

Are the Olympics not for the entertainment and enjoyment of everyone?

Elistist snob!!!

Suggest?

Crash tests done by the ADAC in Germany have shown that many of the Chinese car products are death traps in an accident situation.

With regards to the Olympics, I think that probably the Chinese have used large amounts of state money to bring many atheletes to a particularly high performance for this years Olympics (their Olympics?).....much the same as Professor Tim Wei has done for the US Olympic swimming team......its not illegal to do that and both the USA and China have a far larger population to choose from than most other countries.....

In my youth in the UK, olympic athletes had to have a day job to be able to eat and live and train, no state help (or from companies) was allowed......where has that gone to. If you had earned money for say playing tennis, you were barred from the olymoics automatically....

Is it positive or negative that so many are given so much money to train today? I cannot personally answer.

If you had earned money for say playing tennis, you were barred from the Olympics automatically....

Just like in basketball. I just don't understand that.

Consider the term: "professional athelete"

They were ALL excluded.

I believe the US Olympic basketball team is comprised of "professional athletes".

Until ~20yr ago, EXPRESSLY PROHIBITED!

Instituted in answer to "Army" teams that did nothing but train for Olympic games.

NOT an improvement!

& this would be the same that gave us Pb painted kid's toys, Melamine enhanced pet food, & pirated DVD's?

You too look 7 from your AVATAR

Bricktop,

It really is okay if the U.S. did not win the gold medal. It does not diminish you or me in any way as a person. Please rise above the conspiracy mindset.

WindGenMan

How young do you suppose the CHILDREN are that are selected, taken off to sports camps & trained for a career of 'sport'? Do you suppose there's any time left over for those "quaint notions" like 'education', or 'play'? What kind of retirement plan (for the 'almost made its', particularly)?

The true sport of the Olympic movement a great thing; all the Chauvinism is detrimental!

You are giving us a preview of the new world order?

The Americans are taller and beat the Chinese in Track and Field. Is that a problem? Are they cheating? Taking growing drugs? Has the Chinese complained? You will look younger if you stop worrying about such nonsense.

I think it is possible that the point was missed. Having observed a considerable amount of the Olympics over the years in person, I have seen cheating on the part of the athletes, judges and countries.

Cheating is cheating and should be punished, but let us make absolutely sure who is responsible.

China is a Communist country, therefore, what the State says, goes. If the State sponsored athletic officials say to the athletes "You will tell the examining IOC officials thus and such," the athletes do exactly that. If they wish to continue doing anything, and that includes breathing.

Proving intentional personal dishonesty is difficult enough, proving judicial dishonesty is much harder and proving national lack of honor nearly impossible.

Just my opinion Dragon

"From my perspective, many folks here DO look much younger than their counterparts in the west. Of course there are document forgeries, but that can only go so far."

But be careful...a case of ethnocentrism, even racism at times, in the eye of the beholder. The illusion of younger skin appearance in darker pigmented skin is just that: an illusion. The more vivid visual apparency of (equivalent) indicators of skin aging in light complexioned persons is neither an illusion nor an indicator of earlier aging, more advanced health degeneration, or racial/cultural stereotype.

It is time a country like China come in with a don't give a damn attitude and blow all the monopoly holding companies out of the water. There are way to many profit driven companies that don't give a sh** about anyone or anything in life but money. Has anyone noticed that usually the biggest bitchers are the ones controlling the monopoly and making the most money? To get back to the Olympics, they are good. Make no mistake. The Chinese do not like failure. It is all about honour.

It is all about honour.

For those with power, it's all about life for those Chinese Olympians

There are way to many profit driven companies that don't give a sh** about anyone or anything in life but money.

I am pretty sure I wouldnt invest in a company not devoted to making as much money as possible...maybe you'd like to invest in a company that hands out 'happy' first before looking for huge returns and dividends.

"I am pretty sure I wouldnt invest in a company not devoted to making as much money as possible..."

Like FoMoCo, GM, & MoPar? Maybe a more wholistic approach is called for; who will buy product if all jobs have been 'off-shored'? Maybe just to spite will buy 'import'?

Management can no longer see past the end of this quarter; should be thinking long term, too.

I first saw those chinese girls, I though they must be at least 8 or even ten. My first impression was not imfluenced by anyone. I think for competition such as olympics children should be ommitted, simply because they are children and they have their own places to compete.

Honour at all cost? Even if it throws honour out the window just to have a moment.

What honourable things from the past do you know about china and its dealings with its own people?

The honour they believe in, not what I believe in.

what do you know of the honour of your own people

This topic has brought on a lot of China bashing. Generally the Olympics has brought on a lot of China bashing. I think we should look at our own countries and the terrible histories we have before we judge others. I doubt there is anything China has done historically or currently that many other countries haven't done.

Many wrongs don't make it right.

like telling young couples "how many and what sex" of children they will have!

Population control sounds a lot better than genocide and slavery.

Interpreted as 'point / counter point??

A definitive comparison is needed...

To all Guests (remember you all come under the same name, so arguing amongst yourselves just looks funny to the rest of us!), your opinion counts for nothing without a proper CR4 name and a proper location as you could be working for the Chinese regime and have a vested interest.

In fact anyone from China has a vested interest, so their opinions count for very little on this particular point.

Remember, the Chinese government told us that all tickets for all events were sold out, but there are many empty seats to see and now you can see lots of "Bussed in crowds" all wearing the same T-shirt rooting for everyone!!! They were even interviewed on British TV....they told us that they were made to come, got a lunch pail and a t-shirt to wear!!!

Yesterday the Chinese police took many reporters off the street and questioned them as to what their opinion was on Tibet???? Can you believe that, I saw a live broadcast of that happening on British TV......

China is not (was never) being honest.....Internet connections blocked for many journalists is another examle.......

...as to whether doping or unfair tactics were being used in the games, we shall see later, the blood samples are held for many years and tested periodically when new tests become available - Lance Armstrong was caught as was many European cyclists by this happening fairly recently, years after the event....wait up.

Give it up Andy, you have beat that horse almost to death.

As I always said, guests are simply not an authority on anything except in producing humour, because they may have a unfair Axe to grind......Chinese Government in this particular Blog for example.....

But they are funny to read, but do not themselves usually see the funny side, which of course makes it even MORE amusing for the rest of us....... so please, all of you guests, post away to your hearts content!!!

You were honoured this time, I actually read and replied, I do not do this that often.....I usually ignore them all

GA and another cool smiley!

Dear AH, So true and Good Answer.

Cordially Dragon

Clearly an under achiever, with a very limited vocabulary and little control over your temper. Furthermore your basic manners are simply missing - you never ever had any I expect.....

Why not join CR4 fully and talk/discus in an adult fashion with other adults?

Or is far more fun to be a troll and bring nausea to others? If yes, that sounds extremely childish indeed........or are you just chicken?

Mein Freund Andy. I'll up you one for that answer.

I would say that Andy has beaten more than just this subject to death !!!!!

While you are still beating on something else with that guest sign in. Wanker!! Log in and let your colors show, come on, come on you can do it can't you?!?

I would say that Andy has beaten more than just this subject to death !!!!! At least Andy is loggged as himself and not hiding as guest, Damnit, guess I am beating on a dead horse, huh?

Get 'em Andy!

Ferris

Hello Ferris

I had this photo of you sent to me just now....

Because you are camera-shy, also to spare the tender feelings of the gentle readers here, your facial features have been obscured.

Kinmd Regards....

Feris, ask your mother and sisters if I'm a Wanker .

Regards

Andy Guest

"Guest, your opinion counts for nothing without a CR4 name and a proper location as you could be working for the Chinese regime and have a vested interest."

WOW! Even if it was a Chinese "spy" they have an opinion. An opportunity to defend themselves if you like.

The guest post about China bashing was me. To be honest I never noticed the anonymous option before and wondered how it worked.

My point is that other countries do things that are as equally wrong. Sure China sucks in many ways. So does many other countries. Stones and glass houses ya know.

If he was a chinese spy, he only has the opinion of the chinese government to reflect....not his own, as if his was radically different, he would end up with a bullet in the back of the head as many others have done.

I have sailed through the south china sea and seen bodies as far as the eye can see and sharks dead of overeating.......ethnic cleansing chinese style.

They do it more cleverly and not so overtly today......

Bush did same thing in Iraq. We forgive him because it was not from his own country.

"Yesterday the Chinese police took many reporters off the street and questioned them as to what their opinion was on Tibet???? Can you believe that, I saw a live broadcast of that happening on British TV......"

This makes me wonder how other countries like the USA or France would treat people during an event like this. Sept 11 event and the European bombings sure have changed a lot of things.

I have never heard of it happening in the UK, but there are a lot of Taliban on a small Carribean Island at this moment......I somehow feel that it is not improving the situation in the middle east, but I do not know what could be done to better it.

Fanatics are just that :- Fanatics.......

GA