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Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 8:12 AM

Weekend again and time for some fun.

This is the transporter used by the security staff in the car park of our local shopping mall.

The driver (rider) leans forward and they really go.

Standing still you can see the computer balancing by slightly cranking the wheel.

Who of you has done some drum or log walking as a (big) kid?

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#1

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/12/2008 9:08 AM

Its a Segway http://www.segway.com

Its got some type of balance sensor in the handle bars. Pushing the bars forward or leaning into them unbalances the sensor. Wheels move forward in an attempt to correct. At rest the platform which you stand on is below the center of the axle.

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#5
In reply to #1

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/12/2008 2:55 PM

Its got some type of balance sensor in the handle bars.

Isn't those gyro's

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#13
In reply to #5

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/13/2008 7:28 AM

Don't know what the guy's eating.

Could be a gyroscope never had a Segway apart to see what they used to sense handle movement.

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/13/2008 9:31 AM

I don't think its lamb. unless he got it at a drive through

I heard they had a recall segways because they they had a glitch in thier programing.

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 9:53 AM

Yeah, there was no shutdown warning on the gyros when the battery was almost drained. The gyros would stop spinning unexpectedly and toss the rider off unceremoniously.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 10:07 AM

"... there was no shutdown warning on the gyros when the battery was almost drained. The gyros would stop spinning unexpectedly and toss the rider off unceremoniously."

Come, now Rory, that's a feature. Now all they need to do is add that feature to a remote.

Segways use a MEMS accelerometer-on-a-chip to sense orientation. Freescale Semiconductor, National Instruments and a number of other companies make these parts, and they're dirt cheap, accurate and far more reliable when compared with mechanical gyroscopes.

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#19
In reply to #18

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 10:15 AM

ok, so it is an accelerometer not a gyroscope, but the theory still holds, the accelerometer was shutting down unexpectedly. A gyroscope is nothing more than a mechanical equivalent to an accelerometer connected to a servo.

Just like a software engineer, call a bug that could cause serious injury a feature....=D

All joking aside, does anyone remember the wheelchair that Dean Kaman designed and lisenced to Johnson and Johnson that would climb stairs and lift the occupant up on two wheels to reach high shelves and to put them at eye level with standing people? That was Kaman's project "Fred".

The Segway was an outgrowth of that research and was called project "Ginger" as in Fred Astaire and Ginger Rodgers.

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#22
In reply to #19

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 10:55 AM

"Just like a software engineer, call a bug that could cause serious injury a feature....=D"

Look, if Microsoft can call Vista a product, then I should have the right to call my bug a feature. It's only a matter of scale, after all. And just because my bugs don't require 50 million lines of code to implement doesn't mean I can't follow suit and foist my crap on an unsuspecting world. I dunno, maybe I should call 'em products and make folks sign a big, fat EULA.

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#27
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Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 2:35 PM

Funniest example of a MicroPenisSoft EULA I ever saw was a copy of Windows 3.1 that shipped with an NEC computer long ago and far away. The EULA was INSIDE a cardboard box and it said that opening the package (which was necessary in order to even read the EULA) was proof of acceptance of the EULA.

Bet they'd have a hard time adjudicationg THAT in a court of law....

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#26
In reply to #18

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 1:30 PM

they should do what Microsoft would and claim its a feature.

When the battery is drain, its called the auto ejection system. so you don't drive off a cliff or get in a accident with it or something.

They should also pay me for this PR message.

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#23
In reply to #13

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 11:22 AM

It is a gyroscope, but not in the handle. There is a sensor in the platform, which senses motion from the vertical, and a position sensor, which senses static position, also in the platform. The result of the two is read by an onboard computer, which also does things like control, via PWM, the motors in the wheels, for differential steering, and battery state. They'll do about 20 kph/14 mph in their highest speed range, and come with a key which can be used to set the maximum speed.

I drove one for about 2 minutes at a trade show 5 years ago, then rented three, to tour Washington, DC on, with my daughter and a friend from the UK. What a ride that was. We had a two hour tour, in which we learned to do the "Segway Dance". Riding them is so intuitive, that when you are stopped to listen to the tour guide, you find yourself dancing fore and aft, turning slightly at various times, like some complex, unscripted Pax de Deux with your unwitting partners. Unfortunately, your desire to dance will often last longer than your batteries, so that when you change desires, and partners, in an attempt to rejoin the tour, you have to walk, pushing your Segway along. And those suckers are HEAVY.

Interestingly enough, they are designed so that, without a rider, they take on a slightly front-leaning attitude, rolling forward while progressively leaning farther, until they finally, after 15 feet or so of leisurely travel, lay down, and go to sleep. Rather like me at the end of a long day. I didn't get to see one do it, but did notice, while dismounted from mine, that they definitely lean forward. A slight backward pressure on either handle-bar keeps them still and upright.

Turning them is almost as untuitive as the weight-shifting that causes fore and aft motion. Twisting one handlebar slightly causes the differential application of power to the wheels, in direct proportion to the fore-and-aft weight shift. The result is a very pleasant, smooth, and controllable acceleration in ANY direction. You can even spin them in their own wheel width.

The only difficulty we had to overcome was that they do not allow one to cross curbs (kerbs, to you on the other side of the lake) with any stability. In fact, since they have no mobile suspension travel at all, dropping a wheel over a curb will drop a rider over his or her own teakettle, almost every time. We had to use the wheelchair cuts in the curbs to safely navigate street crossings. And heaven help you if you hit a pot-hole in the process.

But a lot of fun, and no major accidents. Come visit DC, and I'll show you the tour. You'll love it.

Or google "segway by night, DC tours" to find a source of the tours.

Mike

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#24
In reply to #23

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 11:29 AM

Touring DC by night, on a segway or not is an open invitation to get shot, I sure as heck wouldn't be caught dead there without a CHL and at least TWO handguns. Thats what handgun bans for lawful residents gets you. It's funny that the murder capitols of the US all ban firearms. You'da thunk someone would have drawn some kind of conclusion from that...

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Why does it not fall over?

12/15/2008 11:40 AM

I'm with you, and between my adult daughter and I, we own two ( a nine and a .45. I prefer the .45), but the tour takes place in the area around the Capital Mall, which, despite the news, doesn't see much trouble at all. I suspect the police presence there is to account for that, but there is undoubtedly a VERY great pressure to keep the most heavily touristed parts of the city safe. And face it, the fat cats on Capital Hill want to be the only law-breakers in their part of town. So, all in all, I spend a good deal of time afoot there at night, and have NEVER, in 28 years, had a problem there. Of course, I do not, ever, go off the mall, unless its via the subway, or in BIG crowds, on foot at night. The subway is safe, as long as you stay in the Virginia and City Center areas. I am told by friends who live in Maryland that it is also safe, with the same care.

But I live in Virginia, and would not, under any circumstances, willingly live where I could not own guns. I practice with mine regularly (200-300 rounds per month, in my .45 alone, with another 300-500 every two months or so in my daughter's 9mm, and 50 or so in my .30-.30 every two to three months) to make sure I don't do something stupid and unthinking with them. So, you can see, I agree with you about ownership. I am a firm believer in the adage that and armed society is a polite society.

Mike

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#2

Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 10:15 AM

It's a modified Segway. The security staff at our local mall were selected from among thousands to evaluate Segway's forthcoming 'green' beta version. It features an organic

motor.

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 11:14 AM

Sure, they may save money on energy costs by using those green Segways.

But they'll loose so much more in lawsuits from people slipping and falling on the spent fuel emissions.

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 2:37 PM

No! Sell it to software engineers to put in their weekly reports explaining why their code still doesn't compile.

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#6
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 3:01 PM

Any software engineer whose code doesn't compile deserves a swift kick in the pants. Getting code to compile is the easy part. Now, if the productive ones didn't have to waste precious time writing weekly reports they'd probably have finished the project ages ago -- and put a whole gaggle of middle managers out of work. (A middle manager's job, after all, is something of a cross between a raging Napoleonic dictator and your friendly neighborhood postal carrier. Except that they keep ringing the doorbell and, like houseflies, just won't go away. Without weekly reports to pass along to their managers, they'd be out on their ear. [I know a CEO who fired all of his middle management for exactly that reason. No kidding!] So your good S.E.s are left with stuffing those weekly reports with something so that they can get back to doing something useful. If you happen to live near a pasture, so much the better.)

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#7
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 5:11 PM

Ooooh...don't start me on compilers.

error on blah blah expected semicolon...

Well if you expected a semicolon why didn't you try assuming it was there and have another go???
Stupid compiler...gggrrrr fztzzzzz hisssss yowlll

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#8
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 5:55 PM

C'mon. You guys have it made. If something in hardware fails, the customer looks at us and says, "For Gawd's sake! A three year old idiot would have known to use a bigger bearing!". But you guys just mutter something like "A global variable fell off the stack." and the customer is ashamed to say he doesn't know what you're talking about.

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#9
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 6:13 PM

A software engineer who uses global variables desperately needs a swift kick in the pants. More like a heart-2-heart out behind the tool shed. You wouldn't believe some of the Bozo Code I've seen.

One girl at Parker Bros. (Monopoly, et al) years back wrote an entire Kermit program inside main(). No functions of her own (she didn't understand how to write and use functions at all) and no function calls except to stdio. Globals everywhere, like meatballs in spaghetti.

You think managers get exasperated! Try sticking your own two hands in this Crapware!

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#10
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 6:24 PM

I hear now that girl works at MICROSoft.

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#12
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/13/2008 3:56 AM

<flump thud chortle>PMSL

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#15
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/13/2008 1:16 PM

Micro Soft = Small and Limp.

Except that nothing M$ makes is small. I suspect the name refers to something else.

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#11
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/12/2008 11:50 PM

Spaghetti programing !

When I started in the 70's the main aim was to have the computer just help you with tasks and not to create a package, but the specks kept on growing with not enough time to rewrite existing code.

Fortran had a conditional jump and (Rocky mountain) Basic had this (dam) GOTO. The result - one long spaghetti.

The programs outgrew the memory and we had to chain programs and were almost forced to use global variables.

It was only in about 1980 that I got an assembler whereby functions and procedures could be added to the system (more or less equivalent to DLL's) but we never had time to rewrite existing stuff. (Why scratch where you don't itch?)

Alas some of the potent programs went to their graves because it was almost impossible to translate.

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#16
In reply to #9

Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/14/2008 1:01 PM

Oh Jeez!! I'll bet she didn't know what comments were for either...

Bill

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#20
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/15/2008 10:18 AM

Actually the security for the local Target Supercenter around the corner of my house uses one to zip around the parking lot. I asked him Saturday how many times he had been creamed by cars and he said none so far, which means he probably didn't survive past Sunday....

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#21
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Re: Why Doesn't It Fall Over?

12/15/2008 10:36 AM

I asked him Saturday how many times he had been creamed by cars and he said none so far, which means he probably didn't survive past Sunday....

<smirk chortle...falls off chair>

Del

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