Hard Drive Access X 2 - Without the Sledgehammer, Please

Hi Duckinthepond

I had that problem also. The boot record or fat got corrupted and the disk than had a identity crises.

I installed the disk in an older machine (I throw noting away) and partitioned the drive into a small and big partition and formatted only the big one. It now sits in my backup computer as drive F&G and it is still going strong.

If the boot record is gone you may have to pull a virus trick on it.

Seagate also had some tools

Thanks Hendrik............what I'd like to do is completely wipe it clean and then re-download my documents file and os. What I have now is something you have described.

It boots up but no program inside can be accessed, uninstalled or re-downloaded ie no control panel.

What you mean by 'it boots up'? If it boots up it means that your old HDD is OK and operate as before which is not consistent with your 'programs cannot be accessed from control panel window'.

Does 'it boots up' rather mean you can see your HDD when you boot up from the new HDD?

As indicated to be able to access your programs from the control panel window you need to boot from your old HDD: this can be done either in the BIOS -not very flexible- or by modifying the BOOT.INI file.

Now if you only want to use your old HDD as a 'data-only' drive you can format the drive from the context menu by right clicking the icon representing this drive.

This is a new hdd with corrupted os downloaded into it from the buggered hdd. The old one is mechanically damaged and will not spin up.

Hendrik is that Seagate stuf still available or is it now "legacy software"

elnav

You can download "SeaTools" from Seagate to run diagnostics on any make of drive.

If you downloaded corrupt files from the old HD it might not work and it is better to install a fresh copy of the OS.

Hello Duckinthepond:

I have problems with my PC and have had to change the boot order of the drive

Can I assume you know where to go and how to adjust your BIOS? I will anyway!

This is from memory OK? So bear with me.>>>>>>>>>

You will need a PS/2 keyboard to navigate the screens. It will not work with a wireless keyboard.

As you reboot look out for a note on the second screen as it starts. It says "press Ctrl + H" to alter BIOS settings.

Once you are in BIOS you will see two lots of choices. 7 choices on the left, 6 choices on the right.

You are looking for a subsection of one of the left-hand choices:

>SoftMenu 111 setup .......... PC Health Status

>Standard CMOS Feature Load Fail Safe Default

>Advanced BIOS Features Load Optimized Defaults

>Advanced Chip Set Set Password

>Intergrated Peripherals Save & Exit Setup

>Power Management Setup Exit Without Saving

>PnP/PCI Configuration -------------------

==============================================

Can you tell me if you want to try this? Because I will have to run through it on mine and see what to click.

Get back and let me know please?

Hello Duckinthepond:

You may want to try using the cmd prompt to check the disks?

Go to start > run > and type this: chkdsk/r (You may have to use upper case I am not sure.

See what it brings back.

Good luck. I have the rest of my first post ready to send but am not sure that you will not be putting yourself in a position where you have the non working HDD as boot one and then can't operate the machine to come out if you are unable to get it to work? Hope you understand that?

Take care...........................

Download and burn a CD with Knoppix. Boot from that CD. Use Knoppix to erase the HD, remake the MBR into FAT16 or FAT32. This erases any possible viruses completely.

Put the Disk on an XP machine and reformat into NTF. Run an antivirus scanner over it like Dr Web (free download) and then use it like before......

In most modern hard disks (and on the mainboards as well I believe) there is a S.M.A.R.T. function, set this to on, it will give you warnings of any disk disaster before it happens.

Set the antivirs protection on in the MB for the boot sector as well....

Hate to say it Andy but that is what I tried, and it didn't work. The latest malware running rampant over here can even clobber Linux formatted drives. I have several drives and two clobbered computers to prove it. What'e even worse, Linus cannot even reformat these drives. Shall I send you a copy?

Hello elnav,

Are you OK?....................You have me worried now!

I was about to get a Linux disk and install it onto my computer, because I can only work from safe mode on the win xp. It wont let me un-install and lots of other stuff. Thats why I wanted Linux. But you say the nasties can get into Linux as well?

I tell you I am having one hell of a time. I can view one email then I am cut off. I have to reconnect and thats how it is with my system at the moment.

Take care.........................

He should try what I said first.

Nothing to lose really.......its worked for me in the past...its no good being negative first with no accurate infos.....it has a chance to work or not work.....if he gives it a chance at all after what you said!!!

Thanks.....but here's the problem. The download manager in the corrupted hdd with the corrupted os won't let me download anything.

It's very possible the anti-virus software is still running but I can't even see it on the program list.

Hello Duckinthepond:

Now you describe it............that sounds like my problem! I cant load or unload anything to do with the OS. Including some 3rd party software like Norton 360. It wont let me get rid of that.

You could try typing services.msc into the cmd prompt. It will list all your programs and their status,-automatic-off-manual-, something like that. This is to check if your antivirus is still working.

Good luck. I have managed to get mine back to working sometimes on normal. But for the last few days it has been from the Configuration Utility safe mode. Have you tried to sort the problem using the configuration Utility?

You can also go into safe mode---

start>run>

(type: msconfig )>BOOT INI>safeboot>network>apply>OK>reboot

(If you are able to do that of course)!

This will allow you to update your anti virus, and similar apps. but it advises not to run anti virus in safe mode.

Take care.....................

Hmmm.......haven't tried that yet. Forgot all about safe mode.

Hey man..........something kicked in here. Safe mode came up, blue screen, re-boot, safe mode. Norton showed up and prompted me to scan. Ctrl, Alt Delete stopped Norton in its tracks. Blue screen, re-boot and prompted to start in safe mode. Still no control panel but I think I can get at it through msconfig.

Hello Duckinthepond:

I hope you get on OK. If you rebuilt your computer you must be half familiar with some of the things you see in BIOS and Config utility.

It was almost three days before I saw my desktop after crashing with zero notice!

Although I did not think so at the time, it sort of helped me really as, I have just the one computer, and had to find a way out. I have a spectacularly terrible memory, so wrote everything down as I did stuff. Listed what it was, changed it, and if something told me it should not be like that, I changed it back.

Because the computer was not booting hardly at all, it took only 15 seconds to reboot into BIOS or safe mode for instance. I worked out I rebooted hoping for inspiration and it slowly came. It just meant thinking and reading and, two nights with about an hours sleep. Writing it all down hour by hour and minute by minute so I did not get it in the wrong order when I came to do it again. I worked out I must have rebooted almost 430 times. It is not that I knew what I was doing all the time, I just had no choice.

Keep me informed pleased. Just a note: It took me so long because I did not realise for a day and a half I needed the sp/2 keyboard.

Hello Duckinthepond:

some of those screen come up and you do not have much choice. But I am in safe mode and can get to control panel, so you should be close.

My chash was made worse by the whole graphics card software. Not the card but the software.

Hello Duckinthepond:

Do not know about you but, this was the one time I was pleased to see the blue screen! I got tire tired and just left it. And it went right through all those windows like blue screen, BIOS choices and another couple in the same order for two hours. It was werid. It was then I know I did not have to 'try' so hard and be frustrated I did not catch the BIOS or safe mode, coz it was gona be round again in a couple of minutes anyway. It your like that?

Okay let us look at the principles.

Inside the case is the new corrupted HD connected as master? Make it so.

You can perform another XP install concurrent to the corrupted but be sure to correct the boot sector as you go.

After this passes do regular backups to a DVR maybe ya think.

Yep........I'm using SMART function Western drives. The failure was from a short circuit in my mobo and was an instant catastrophic failure....no warning.

Other than the problem I'm having what I'd like to know is what caused the short. I thought it was the video card but it's working fine....actually, it's the only thing that didn't get fried. There was a bit of dust that collected and I suspect this might have done it.

Have since replaced delicate Asus mobo with one that has more copper in it.

Can't you set the buggered HD as last boot device in BIOS ? Or how about connecting it as a slave drive ? I haven't a clue what I'm talking about (as usual), but it doesn't sound that drastic a problem. Do you have an o/s install disc ? What about leaving the crap HD connected on it's own, and booting off some crappy old DOS floppies to format it ? It sounds like the problem is your pooter only thinking one HD is hooked up, which isn't the good HD's fault if it's playing nice.

That's the plan Stan but no bus to catch. I can switch on and off but I can't delete the software in the re-downloaded hdd. I can't get to the formatting stage cos of the corrupted os....which I canna get rid orf because I don't have a startup menu init. I thought of downloading the os into it again thereby having two......one corrupt.......one working. The thinking behind this is that the file system would automatically correct itself through fusion (desperation is the mother of invention) but the download manager won't let me in. _{^{reminds me of a girl I used to know and her fathers gun collection}}

All's I did was to get my documents out of the buggered one into a new one and then into a working hdd with a working os.

If he has the Knoppix boot CD, he can boot from the CD, without having any other HDs installed (other than the damaged one(s)......)

If he does what I said before, he has a good chance of recovering the HD for further use....

That's true, but I'm beginning to think Ducky doesn't have a boot CD. If he can boot into 'DOS' (not sure it's exactly right to call it that anymore) mode there might be a few options available, but it depends how screwed up the 'working' HD is. How does he know it's the mbr/MFT or whatever they call it ? He might be able to reach system restore from a C:\ prompt and find a good restore point. sf /scannow and all that stuff. I Dunno.

I'd better read all this again, 'cos I don't think Duck can get anything on the screen when he tries hitting F8 (or whatever). If we all mailed Duck a boot CD he'd probably be snowed under, but it would take ages to reach him.

He could boot from the Knoppix CD, repair/rewrite the MBR, reformat the hard disk, all from Knoppix......its really easy, even I can do it!!!!

"If he has the Knoppix boot CD"

Ten'll get you twenty, he ain't got one !

He needs someone to do the download and burn the CD.

For anyone without problems, make one for "just in case!"

Andy, Here in Canada the government controls internet use. We do not enjoy super fast data transfer in most regions. When I tried to download the Knoppix it took seven and a half hours and the copy was corrupted. It took three tries to get one copy downloaded that appeared to be in working order. And I am supposedly connected by "High Speed Internet" according to my provider. When I complain I am told the speed of access is controlled by regulation. This has been confirmed by several of my acquaintances. Unless you have a corporate account and pay $$$ every month, you simply do not get access to really fast intenet. In Canada we seem to have access speed at about one third what they get in the States.

I am sorry for you, but that does not change the need!

May I recommend a good download manager that validates the data AND can resend bad data AND can restart a download in the middle.....there are plenty of free ones around.

For limited line speed, there are download managers that will only take a bit, letting you work in parallel......

Who cares how long it takes, that is what is needed!!!!

It's probably no consolation if someone is stuck in the wilderness, but most shops that sell magazines in the UK have about a dozen different computer ones. Almost all carry a free software disc, and in any given month it's a fair bet that one will feature a bootable o/s. Sorry, that's probably just rubbing sold into the crispy duck skin wounds.

Is Canada's slow BB just due to remote places, or is it in the cities as well ? Over here, BB speed is never as good as advertised, but still works fine.Having said that, I understand the the UK is way behind the rest of Europe.

We're pretty far behind the eight ball here. At the office I have 250kmbps cable but at home I'm on dial up.....not by choice but by being remote. It's actually 30% faster if I connect my dial up to the computer in the office and use the cable.

Having a workplace in a government town certainly helps with connectivity speeds.

I pay $40C /month for high speed.

Elnav is in a remote part of BC. Some towns and villages there are on satnav communications.

250kmbps

......please, please tell me that was a typo !

On the bright side, you have nice scenery to look at while you're waiting. My 2Mbs is considered crap around here, though it serves me fine. If it were possible, I'd trade some of your pond for some of my bs.

Oops...........258 kb/s.(on a sunny day) considered to be high speed cable.

Bloody sad compared to Europe.

I'm on dial-up at home (28kb/s). Nothing else available unless mortgage first born...so I dial into the computer at the office and connect into my high speed.

I've no any idea who controls internet here where I'm livin' in (seemed no one in terms of its quality to say the least) but internet connection speed is awfully and dully slow. Nonetheless I'd succeeded to download linux SuSE DVD (4.4 Gb). This ordeal took a week without any corruption of ISO image though. I'd suggest you use the Opera for both surfing and downloading.

At past could have downloaded Knoppix through dial-up for approximately the same time.

Hello Andy,

How are you?.........I have been thinking a lot about Ducky's problem because it sounds so much like what happened to me a few weeks ago.

Thinking also, if one computer is totally screwed so he cannot get into control panel. He must be using another to type stuff for CR4? So he will be able to download stuff. But as (sorry I forgot his name), said, more than one person sending a CD would be overkill. I know exactly how he feels. I can only use my machine in safe mode now. But at least I can get on-line. Even if my connection is dropped every ten minutes. (Not my fault). It is my ISP.

Anyway, take care.................

You too Friend.

Any luck with your system?

I've been away (still am actually)

Hello Ducky,

Thank you for the post! I hope your 'away' time is worth it? Of course you do not have to say, but better a hopeful wish than none at all? Wasn't that something the vicker said to the blond?..........Maybe not.

Any luck with your system?

Short ans sweet.......NO. Meaning no change. Wire and Kris, and others have sent some potentially useful sites. But I had two hour kip last night because I had to go out today. Got back here about 23:00? And found 40 emails to be sorted and it is freezing on almost every send and or any click in that process. Takes a very long time to get anywhere.

I have put any potentially useful sites etc in folders listed with the persons name so I can if necessary , find the 'original' post, on a thread with often over a hundred posts! Just makes it easier, as with the freezing I loose any WIP (Work In Progress) and end up at the yahoo email page at the most recent emails, rather than the one/s I had been writing to, and so have to find it again.

I want to try out some things and sites wire has sent me. A couple of the sites and or apps are supposed to be 'wicked init?'. I clicked my fingers as I typed that. Not easy I can tell you, only a superbly experience BSh-ter can put it off. Which in itself also takes some doing whilst I am typing! Sorry, my mind is wondering a little now as tiredness pursues its deadly roll!....................

I loose any WIP (Work In Progress)

If that's composing replies, you could try typing with something like ms Word (saving frequently), then when ready cut 'n' paste it. Not sure that's the situation, but seems worth mentioning.

Is Yahoo toolbar causing problems ?

If you haven't yet done so, and it's a problem, get on top of stopping unwanted cookies, and clear old garbage out frequently. Cookie blocking is discussed in one of these threads (here or the 'slow response' one), and CCleaner is the most reliable cleaner (some get over-enthusiastic, and can cause problems).

Hi Kris,

I often do type in Word ans save if it is a long piece. And then when it is edited and stuff I paste all and copy to the CR4. It is tedious but sometimes the only way.

Done all you mentioned, and clearing cookies etc is done regularly. I had kept cookies and history etc for a year. I found it more convenient with my own bad recall, it was often easier to go and search Temp' files to find a link or something?

I had Yahoo, google and CR4 tool-bar. But do not have any now and have not since well before my last major crash.

Take care OK?

I can't recall which thread it's in now, but have you checked the boxes to block 3rd party cookies ? If you're on IE7 Right hand side of tool bar → tools>internet options>privacy>advanced> gets you to the settings box. Overide automatic cookie handling + Accept 1st party cookies(else CR4 won't fuly work) + block 3rd party cookies.

Like Kris suggests the Yahoo toolbar can cause problems. Having two or more toolbars open will also slow some systems to a crawl. Having too much junk on them eg shopping, news, feeds etc, will also slow down your system. Most toolbars have a tools pop-down menu where you can disable add-ons, turn off toolbars etc.

Also check from your START menu .....Programs -Accessories-System Tools-Internet Explorer (if IE has add-ons switch 'em off).

Disk Cleanup from System Tools

Delete cookies

Defragment (analyze first)

Hello Ducky,

Thanks for the post! Everything you have mentioned including defrag' has been done. I had google, yahoo, and CR4 tool-bar, but did find the CR4 one caused problems and the same for Yahoo. But I don't have any now.

I have run the browser with no add-ons for roughly 2 years. It is freezing like mad now though!.

Very much appreciate your post and help!

Still freezing? Damn.

Back to the drawing board.

You must have some type of process running that is using up memory.

Hi Ducky,

You must have some type of process running that is using up memory.

For sure! I have cut and continue to check and cut any background info running.

I know the memory is secure and locked in. I will wait and see how a new OS Linux on a completely different HDD works. I know there is several things that are listed as 'damaged'. But until I get the Linux CD I really can't do much.

wire has sent a couple of sites which are to scan and clean kind of thing. I will run those over the next week. It is not too bad surfing. But, locks every 20 clicks or so when I am trying to reply to posts.

As long as I can get on-line for the moment I have to accept the status quo.

Take care my friend.....................

Turn off java in Adobe reader it is a security hole at the moment.

Hi wire,

I can't believe you have done all this work...........?! Thank you!

I can get out now so can get external memory etc. cheers my friend.

Oh, I am beating myself! But I need a 'good' day or few days to concentrate on the saving and reinstall. Can't thank you enuf!

I will run the scanner you sent a link to today to see what happens. Hope to reinstall over the next few days..............Depends if the 'things I have' let me.

If I can I will be keeping you updated as to how things are going. I know theres not much else I can do but reformat and reinstall, but I have a whole lot of stuff to save first.

Take care.....................

Hi wire,

GA to you sir. Thank you.

From a man who feels pretty bloody useless!

Take care my friend............, hopefully my normal healthy self will be back soon.

"feels pretty bloody useless"

Totally NOT babybear ! Your perseverance is worthy of the highest respect. There's probably not a single person here who hasn't been left baffled by a computer fault at some time or other. Fighting through life's adversities makes us better people. There are helpful posts here, especially from bwire, but ultimately it will be you who conquers the infernal machine.

Keep on keeping-on, and one bright day it will be

Thanks for your nice post to teach us more.

Ok.......hey....good stuff. I just found a Knoppix guy will burn cd for me.

Nice to have a gov't lab in town. They got all the goodies.

Hello Andy and all here,

I just wand to say sorry. I wasn't aware Ducky lived in BC and, are so isolated, and so don't have home broad band. I said earlier that he must have two computers because one is not working and Ducky is still on-line to us. But it will not be much good if he has land-line?

Sorry.

I was hoping that my last post would get him out of trouble because it worked for me! Clicking on VGA on the Advanced choices screen.

Must be beautiful in BC right now, well, round the year! Lucky man.

Take care.............

I see things have vastly improved since I was last there.

He he......I was in Keno City, Yukon, when the first Anik tv broadcast came through...1971.

Place called Luigis'...... full of Indians, hard rock miners and the only TV within 1500 radial miles. For some it was the first time ever seeing a tv in action.....Guess what the show was?

Yep, you guessed it...........Liberace! in full flambuoyance! courtesy CBC.

They loved it!!!

Ok ok......I ain't got the Knoppix........

But I got boot menu etc..........what's a Knoppix?

Click on this link:-

http://www.knoppix.org/

Change language to English, read and inwardly digest.

Basically its a bootable floppy with a special linux that can read data on a windows disk, copy the data, format the disk, fix viruses, make a new MBR and and and etc.....

Ya.....first I heard of it but definately a must have. Borrowing one from IT guy down the street. I suspect it was part of the data recovery software I was using.

Good info.

Duck got boot and strap on floppy. Hdd das boot but no more than that. I haven't got a clue whats stopping the os from displaying on the screen.

Cautious about running scan or de-frag. If I can get download manager to work I'll re-install XP....or rather fuse it into the corrupted version.

By the way...thanks for that link. I've since lost it but it connected me to the lads who built the data recovery software....who connected me..... who connected me.... ad infinitum until IT discovered a lab here in my town that uses it that I do business with. Crazy man. It's been one hell of a roller coaster ride.

Hello Duckinthepond:

Please try this if you have not already.........................!-!-!-!

As you say do not defrag'. How do you set up in safe mode? Coz if you clicked

>run>msconfig>BOOT INI>safeboot>network (radio button)>apply>OK> reboot

You should reboot back into safe mode and still have the ISP connection. And so should have your desktop back.

I remember, or rather I have just read nearly two shorthand pads of notes I took every time I did anything.

On the Advanced Options which is one of those screens which you can choose from reboot, there was these:

1)Safe mode

2)Safe mode with networking

3)safe mode with cmd prompt

4)Enable boot logging

5)Enable VGA mode < < < < < < < < Click this!!! Now!

I got to it from turning off and as it boots, immediately as you take your finger from the 'on' button, hold Ctrl down while clicking F8. You might have to wait for the various screens to roll round before you can stay on the Advanced Options.

6)Last known good configuration

7)Directory services restore mode

8)Debugging mode

9)Disable Auto Restart on System Failure.

Have you been rebooting via the reset button, coz that is a quick way and with no systems hardly it reboots in ten seconds or so. You can always interrupt the selection you have made, whether it be the one you want or, one you chose erroneously.

I know it makes know sense but, keep rebooting and something will click in there and it may decide to give you a multi choice screen so you can cmd.exe to allow you to choose safe mode with networking.

As I said I got too tired and had to rest and watched as mine was left on the blue screen. It then started going all by itself.......blue screen > multi choice > safe mode > windows LOGO > then blue screen..........round and round. But I knew I could reboot using the reset button at any time and just wait for the screen I wanted to come round and then choose it.

I had actually tried to restore it from safe mode, using the restore function two hours previously. And I guess it was just sorting itself out and then the screens stopped and the restore screen was on saying the restore was successful! It was then I went into safe mode with networking.

You realise you can choose 'Services' in safe mode? You can turn things on which should be on and there is one or two things which must be on. The one I can recall is something to do with 'comms' which is the connection to the ISP etc. DNS and all that. And that must be on and automatic (I think). Sorry I can't remember now. If you can always adjust it if you can't get on-line.

Have you tried that or have you have enough?

Can you tell me if you have seen your desktop yet?

Take care..........

I've got a dual layer AMD processor that allows me to use both hdds separately....and yes....I have seen the safe mode screen. I can basically do four separate tasks on each of the processor layers.

I have a small screen playing of drive E (the corrupted) on my main screen. Safe mode comes on and the whole thing goes into boot again. I can switch drives very easily but I'll let E play out for a while yet.

Hello Duckinthepond:

Thank for the post.

Did you try the VGA on the multi choice screen? It brought my icons back up and the desktop.

Take care. I am going to bed soon. Got stuck into your problem and never went to sleep. Not surprising I am tired. I did not sleep last night.

Take care.

G'night.....thanks for helping..........

Hello Duckinthepond:

No probs! I enjoyed it. Because it is so much like the way mine crashed. With regard to today, with your other friends helping '6' heads is better than 1?

Take care..........................

No ticket.........but thanks for your time in compiling an otherwise excellent step-by-step setup.

The hdd is new. The recovered data was downloaded into it from an hdd that was damaged. I had to get yet another new hdd to download the os (XP) so that when I transferred the files they could be read by the program. This leaves me with one functioning new hdd and another non-functioning hdd which is also new. The hdd with the initial download doesn't allow access from the download manager leaving me stuck with a rather expensive and useless hdd.

My old hdd is in pieces because I wanted to see how the liquid bearings were made. Sealed unit.

Subject that rather expensive corrupted useless HD to a powerful electromagnetic field and wipe it off

If you do that, even a reformat will not be able to recover the drive as the "Di-Bits" would also be erased.......

One should never subject a disk drive to a magnet, unless one is junking a drive that has sensitive data on it, but there are still better methods than that even then!!

I guess you were just making a joke!!!

Yeah that's right, all is not lost some patience and fiddling will bring the data back.

Do ya think Norton Ghost could be useful in this endeavor, I had dismissed it but...

Hey........that was some good info. It worked. I dismounted the screwed up os, cleared the drive and reloaded the data. I now have one functioning os and two functioning hdds....all done through bios.

In appreciation I'm sending you a catscan of my brain....or rather...what's left of it after two weeks of trying to figure out what I was doing.

That's great, Duck! happy to help.

How have you configured the HD in BIOS?

I used auto detect and configured them manually.

Problem is I have some corrupted programs from the recovery that are on the second working backup hd (the original buggered one is in pieces). They mostly interfere with my display settings but otherwise work ok. The display settings have to be reset whenever the program is launched.

One thing I will mention..........under no circumstances go to the Microsoft help feature.

BTW.........Greetings to all from the lovely frozen community of Dorset, tip o' Hudsons Bay.