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What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/09/2009 7:25 PM

We are aware that we are threatened by Asteroids since Scientists are pretty much agreed that it was an Asteroid Strike in the Yucatan that altered the Earth Climate so much as to kill off all the Dinosaurs.

Astronomers tell us that it has happened in the past, and is likely to happen in the future.

What currently operating Institution is most suited to design, and implement a Planet Defense System?

I myself think that there is no standing institution capable of the task, and that a new one needs to be created to accomplish the task.

I do allow that it would seem sensible to charge the United Nations with the task, but at this time, the UN seems in disarray.

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#1

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/09/2009 8:16 PM

I don't believe that there is, or ever will be an institution/country/group that could alter the course of something that big.

For that matter the Yosemite earth quake may kill us all first. Or some other unknown disaster.

You may as well party, you're not getting out alive anyway!

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#2

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/09/2009 9:59 PM

NASA has been working on this for years. Some of their ideas are out there, some make sense. When DD45 did a fly by on 1MAR09, it was far enough away not to worry about. Unlike what lynlynch mentioned, which is much more relative to think about.

Bend over AKYAGB!!

Party on!!

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#3

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/09/2009 10:19 PM

NASA & USAF working under NATO with UN backing would be the best way to go, IMHO. Of course, the ESA or any country would be allowed to contribute if they wanted.

I believe this topic has come up before, and my suggestions where to either deflect the asteroid into a path away from the Earth, or to hit it with corrosive materials to break it up into more manageable pieces.

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#4
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/10/2009 1:08 AM

As per a request by Transcendian, via CR4 private message, I'm posting a link to the thread where I made the comment about chemical bombs to break up the asteroid:

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/12473/Comets-and-asteroids-hitting-Earth.

My comments are in post #65.

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#5

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/10/2009 11:06 PM

I think once you know how to do it, then figuring out politically how to accomplish it will be much easier. Here is my scheme... most of which goes like the movie Armageddon, except we get more warning time.

travel to the asteroid in question... and plant nuclear powered rockets on the surface, such that they will fire tangentially, and induce a spin, over time, in the body.. and keep making it spin until it exceeds the speed which will keep it together.. Centrifugal force will blow it up. One little detail is that the rockets must alter their direction of thrust inward as rotation increases, in order to stay on the 'ground' so to speak.

I don't know about an organization to actually act to prevent, but I certainly think Transcendia/UN could increase the search resources, and therefore the reaction time. 2 weeks isn't enough, and the probability that NASA has a couple of super-ships in the barn isn't likely... It would be a miracle to launch a regular shuttle in 2 weeks.

Chris

PS.. since no one has suggested the centrifugal force method of blowing up asteroids before.. i'm going to have to patent it..so that when that day comes in a 1000 years, I'll be rich.

PPS.. did you know... the ancient clay tablets, as interpreted by Zecharia Sitchin et al, state that it was the four moons of a roque planet, (now called planet X) that were responsible for that damage and much more (creation of asteroid belt, and the battering of Kingu, our moon, all from the mother planet Tiamat now earth) its a story that used to be read annually in Sumeria called the Enuma Elish... "In the beginning....

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#6
In reply to #5

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/10/2009 11:51 PM

I would say the UN but as they show remarkable indecisiveness in a crisis, we would be probably be dead, a global dictator or Hollywood.

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#7
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/10/2009 11:57 PM

I said that, about the UN.

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#8
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 12:12 AM

You said disarray, i said indecisiveness

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#9
In reply to #5

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 12:38 AM

I don't know Chris.

The reason I don't know is that everybody says a little bit will go a long way as far as deflecting an asteroid.

I'm more inclined to see putting a bunch of cheap fast rockets in park up there, and then hitting the asteroid as if it was a pool ball, than going to all that other work.

The way I figure it is that if we put a good number of rockets up, parked and ready to go, then if we actually really knew an asteroid was going to strike if we didn't do something, we could calculate the number of fast rockets we had to hit the thing, and possibly have a reserve to hit it again, if that tact didn't work.

The damn things spin. Plus unlike the game balls, its moving.

But then they aren't round, so if you hit it at the right point with something heavy enough, you do have some hope of changing its trajectory. The math problem for my friends who are better than I am at math, is how fast, and how heavy is the minimum for a rocket to make spin away, after hit, for the smallest Asteroid?

Once we know that, we could build a nice rocket set and park it up there in multiples for use as needed.

According to Astronomers the need to deflect an asteroid will come up for us.

Since it happened in the past, I am inclined to believe them.

The Shuttle is right old now. I'll bet you them Russians could get a rocket gone quicker than we could. Who knows, maybe they want to save the world too.

P.S. Really you never know who reads this stuff. China and France have probably got some stuff going. They are welcome to pitch in.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 1:00 AM

I think we are better off just nudging the thing a few degrees off it's course so it passes us by like DD45 just did.

With spinning it, this could have an adverse effect and may not move it enough to not hit us. And hitting it too hard will just crash.

If we could land a rocket on it, and then use the propulsion to just move it a few degrees, is a possible answer.

Of course, it will probably return in 30-60 years where we'd have to do it again.

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#11
In reply to #9

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 1:03 AM

The important thing to remember is that the global killer was the size of a moon, and it happened 65 million years ago. It would be cheaper and ultimately more helpful to build rockets to move 6 billion people than it would be to move a moon out of its orbit(s) Once you have that kind of space capability, you do not need to fear any global killer.

Chris

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#12
In reply to #11

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 1:23 AM

Good point, I was thinking of something that is 20 miles across or smaller.

I'm not sure what can move something the size of the moon, except a black hole.

I believe we are looking for another planet to move to now. We just found 100 Million Earth like planets in our Milky Way. Like with was said earlier, WE can't build a shuttle now. So getting off this planet to get to the next won't be easy. And then who gets left behind? Who will make those decisions? Not like we can build our own personal escape pods. 1 option, Oh Scotty!!

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#39
In reply to #11

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/11/2009 5:15 PM

According my Wikepedia read most were much smaller. Certainly size does matter, and life does end, but we do have a duty to do the best we can, with what we have.

Therefore I am grateful for the help as I prepare for my April Fools Day Annual Speech.

I have determined that a struggle with Nature is the most legitimate struggle for Mankind to engage in.

Therefore as the Founder of Transcendia, this year I will layout my and our, plans for a Planet Defense System, along with a proposed International Institution to address the Natural Threat of Asteroids, to us.

I now have 20 days till I am to give my speech. I shall post it here, or on my website by the 31first at the latest.

It is to be given at 6:30 PM at the Southern Rail, in Carrboro, NC, in the beer Garden, on April Fools.

It would be nice for me to have in hand a really good system for which to start raising money.

Russell

P.S. In Lieu of another Institution, I have decided to push Transcendia to take up the mission.

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#55
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/14/2009 12:00 PM

Transcendian:

Ronald Reagan called it the "Star Wars" project would this work for you?

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#61
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/14/2009 5:35 PM

Well, actually I got in a lot of trouble and was essentially black balled for a story I wrote based on the science at the time, that strongly implied Star Wars wouldn't work. However I do feel that though not even now is there great likelihood that a Missile Defense System would work at any percentage worth the costs, at a time of increasing proliferation, I do feel that as regards Asteroids, the system has good enough potential to be pursued.

Basically I am put in the position of saying a system will work in one application, but not the one it was invented or intended for.

My reasons for taking such a stance have to do with realities of time, and multiples of the threat.

Say we agree that ICBMs with the destructive power of an Asteroid number from a high of three thousand, to a low of ten, in one day, with a 1.5 to 3 hour flurry, it is extremely unlikely that the Star Wars Defense System could prevent now all strikes, and at best, maybe prevent 30 percent. Meaning then out of ten launches, 7 big explosions.

However I am of the opinion, that the technology regardless of its imperfections, in light of the percentage of threats from Asteroids, does have legitimate employment, due to the number of actually threatening Asteroids, plus a time factor possible to enable sighting, tracking, and hit.

I am in the unenviable position of then having to recommend a technology that I squashed in one application, for use in another application.

I have taken into account advances in the Technology that have taken place over a 30 year period.

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#62
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/14/2009 6:13 PM

My favourite author Zecharia Sitchin says that Ronald Reagan became intensely interested in a Star Wars program after a probe to the Mars moon Phobos was 'taken out' by a 'something' from the surface of Mars.. they only had about 3 seconds of photos before the satellite went dark.. and they they discovered that the satellite had actually been shifted in its orbit, so something physically hit it.

Another tidbit that comes with the story is that Reagan collaborated with the RUSSIANS in developing starwars... what does that tell you. it wasn't designed to defend against ICBMs from Russia... but designed to defend against the Martians (Annunaki?)... anywho.. it makes for an interesting story.. I'm sure that if the Annunaki want to come and take over again, they will not be stopped by any weapon we can dream up, because they are a few hundred thousand years more advanced than us...(there are energy beam weapons used in the epic of Gilgamesh, and when Isis destroyed the great Pyramid) They also built the Great Pyramid.. which houses that really big laser chamber.. and could even be used for meteor defense.. where do you think they got that idea for that old Star Trek episode where they blasted a meteor using a pyramid.. its the oldest technologicial structure on earth... humans didn't design it...

Chris

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#63
In reply to #62

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/14/2009 7:42 PM

Actually, so far, it appears to me, humanity has been fairly successful at dreaming up weaponry.

I consider you a CR4 Star, and feel you yourself could well compete with the Annunaki. Since I booked Gene Rodenberry for a speech, had dinner and a conversation with him, I am aware of his platens for all of the Star Trek stories.

All Star Trek stories come from Greek Mythology, and a lust for women.

From my remembered experience with Mr. Roddenberry, my suspicion would be that he would say women were aliens, and that they designed the pyramids.

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#65
In reply to #61

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 5:35 AM

We all could still get in a bit of trouble talking of it yet I think. And Chris is onto it too and up grading the laser capabilities with EM may be interesting.

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#33
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:33 PM

Re PPS, You're the only person I know of that would know about the Enuma Elish, But in the version I know of the EE was from a race supposedly descendant from the survivers of Atlantis (probably Minoan Crete) and washed ashore in Italy (one of the speculated reasons for blond hair, blue eyes among a lot of Sicilians), who then worked thier way north and became what is known as the Celts. If Atlanteans were as shit-hot as is fabled mebbe they knew they were gonna get clobbered, and like, got on the boat and left. It was a Matriarchy where women wore thier tits on a shelf instead of covered (art and sculpture survives from this period) and were much more accomodating to local men, and would be conqueres were sent home drained, and too drunk or doped to remember where the hell it was they had such a good time. (Savanna GA. used a variation on this during the Civil War to keep Gen. Sherman from burning the town). Oh, for the good old days.

I don't remember where I got this info. from, so I''ll give you a list of esoterica that may interest you: A view over Atlantis, Ley lines, Mystery of the (Egyptian and/or Mexican) Pyramids (P. Tompkins), The Secret Teachings of All Ages (M.P. Hall), among others.

Oh yeah, that meteorite? BOAKYAG!

Carl c.pickhardt@yahoo.com

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#36
In reply to #5

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:54 PM

Don't patent it, just demand that you never want to pay taxes again. Ever.

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#13

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:28 AM

So, your saying Bruce Willis will not be available, as at the time he will be doing a childrens book reading at some Library?

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#14

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 4:29 AM

Forget the Asteroids. Think closer to home. How are you going to put a lid on a super volcano in Yellowstone National Park???? If that blows, bye-bye America.

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#16
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 4:35 AM

Just the opposite Yellowstone is the lid, we must find a way to syphon of the pressure(the power source we are looking for?) without starting a cataclysmic even

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#18
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 5:28 AM

Totally agree, wording just wrong. I actually meant how to keep the lid on, so it doesn't one day blow. But I think it is not wise to try and vent it. It might just be the hole we make that sets everything in motion. And I dont think you can stop it then when all goes wrong. Humans think they are so clever yet we are the ones that is causing the green house effect. We can do anything, yet we cannot save the one thing that is keeping us alive, our planet. We are going to cause our own extinction. Very clever I must say. Remember that everything first happens very slowly...then speeds up to a reversable point....then speeds up faster and can no longer be reversed.....then failure......then it is to late.

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#43
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 11:41 PM

bye-bye America?

And the problem here is???

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#44
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 12:12 AM

Well there are good things from America, would miss some people, writers, movies and music, and certain kind physical activity movies that seem to be produced in abundance in the LA area

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#47
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 5:14 PM

I guess the only thing that would really be missed is CR4

You get those "aerobics" video's everywhere

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#48
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 8:39 PM

But America seems to be one of the major suppliers of "exercise" movies

Maybe Ron Jeremy will come out with a new video called Thai Ho instead of tae bo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tae_Bo

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#85
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 3:41 PM

I'm a little country. I can't worry about everything. Making a choice here. For others the Yellowstone Park Problem.

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#15

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 4:29 AM

It's an idea that has evolved since the first asteroid kiss the Earth experienced.

However, if we looked around, we'd find that Mercury, Mars and Pluto are planets - OK, Pluto once was - that are devoid of a protective atmosphere that could dissolve / disintegrate / fragment any foreign object that invaded its space and free-fell into their surfaces.

All 3 are smaller than the Earth.

All 3 have equal chances of getting the big hit.

Yet, all 3 have existed and still exist, AFAIK, though shell-pocked, but have not wobbled off its orbit and upset the gravitational balance of the solar system because of an asteroid hit.

Therefore, if any agency or institution or groups of them would be capable of detecting and forecasting an asteroidal direct hit on earth as far out as 2 weeks, methinks evacuation covering a 180-km radius from ground zero (as in the Yucatan impact) might be a better option for an event that will take place once every 300,000 years.

Source: http://www.geocities.com/zlipanov/impact_craters/impact_craters.html - sorry, link no longer available

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#21
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:06 AM

Interesting theory, only problem is none of the planets you mentioned support life. They have been struck many times over than the Earth with out magnetic protection zone and atmosphere, the earth can protect itself to a point. This has been breached in the past, even with the protection and I believe the jury is still out as to the "REAL" reason the dinosaurs were wiped out, and yet there are still animals and creatures that did survive the cataclysmic event(s) that took place from space or within. Currently Yellowstone is a very real threat to life in the US and others. It has been documented as being a Super Volcano. I am hoping it goes back to sleep soon.

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#56
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/14/2009 12:20 PM

I think the real reason the dinosaurs were eliminated is attrition. In effect not one single overwhelming incident or cause but a continual wearing down; a low salt/fat diet perhaps

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#17

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 4:44 AM

We together are going to destroy this planet by our bad practices and destruction of nature, before any astroid will destroy it.

We need to think how to save the planet from we.. human beings.

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#19

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 6:35 AM

The Vatican...?

Bobguz

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#20

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 8:27 AM

Technology aside (many good posts), it is sad that the flawed nature of man will never allow a consensus to allow an entity, which has to last forever, to have their "finger on the button" of resources which could be used for ulterior motives.

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#23
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:16 AM

You hit it head on, "Flawed nature of man". Just the historical regimes of the past,

no one entity or government can be trusted to be in charge of the world. We need balance and this means a numbers of powers that must work together to make this balance work so no one government/Country has full authority to push "that" button. One day maybe we can all be in harmony and repair the damage we have done to the earth before we hit the point of no reversal. First we need to eliminate the "My Gun" is bigger than your gun mentality. Until then, we need to keep looking to the heavens for that asteroid with our name on it.

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#38
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 2:12 PM

"no one entity or government can be trusted to be in charge of the world"

So True! GA This is a more important fact than any scientific fact!

Chris

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#25
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:24 AM

Good morning All,

I believe the question began with "what" not how, nor what else!

I therefore will respond with an answer to "what institution".

Actually no such institution exists! We could never depend on every countries version of NASA to come to any sort of agreement in time to accomplish such a mission. TooManyCooks SPOIL THE SOUP so to speak, "Don't you see!

"And" We the planets most intelligent animal will have already had our place in the sun, and screwed up very well thank you!"

Maybe it will just be our opportunity to "just move on" and let the next cycle begin all over a gain. We could leave them examples of our knowledge and accomplishments and our warnings regarding our screw ups, maybe they will take our well intended advice!

"That is if our advice is worth the tablet it is written on"???

By the way Congrats Milo.

TooMuchFun

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#22

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:08 AM

Small village people gets united when they felt threaten by people of another side.and same thing happen at different level of administrations and this happen up to the level countries and even we can see regional unifications on different issues.

Point I want to make here is that, as and when required humanity will come together to fight any out side challenge. failure and success is beside the point.

It is the our ability to co-operate for mutual interest that pushed us far from other species

There is enough technology available thats can give us indication of any potential future threat and that can give us enough time to fight any challenge.

Lets be optimistic.

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#24

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:18 AM

Probably the Russians, they don't take a months to make a decision and one it is made there is no other step to take before action.

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#26

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:36 AM

This is all good, but we have to be able to see them coming first:

Sky-watchers in Asia, Australia, and the Pacific islands welcomed a surpriseguest earlier today: an asteroid that passed just 41,010 miles (66,000 kilometers) above Earth.

Discovered only days ago, asteroid 2009 DD45 zipped between our planet and the moon at 13:44 universal time (8:44 a.m. ET). The asteroid was moving at about 12 miles (20 kilometers) a second when it was closest to Earth.

"We get objects passing fairly close, or closer than this, every few months," Timothy Spahr, director of the International Astronomical Union's Minor Planet Center in Massachusetts, said in an email.

"Also, though, note these are only the ones that are discovered. Many more pass this close undetected"—as asteroid 2009 DD45 nearly did.

Astronomers didn't notice the oncoming asteroid until February 28, when it showed up as a faint dot in pictures taken at the Siding Spring Observatory in Australia.

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#27

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 10:42 AM

Ah yes, the great dooms day prevention debate. I really don't know who, if anyone should defend the Earth. But I would like to point out several key concerns that complicate this worry.

  1. There are many dooms day scenarios our planet could suffer.
    1. Outside the solar system:
      1. X-ray and cosmic ray bombardment from "nearby" black hole (look at how many light-years long the jets of the Cygnus X1 are) or a nearby Super-nova.
      2. Undetected wandering dark matter (brown dwarf or black hole) disturbing orbital paths of solar system.
    2. Inside the solar system:
      1. Asteroid or comet impact
      2. Dramatic change in solar activity
    3. Natural Terrestrial sources:
      1. super volcano eruption (Yellowstone)
      2. Magnetic pole reversal (temporary loss of Van Allen Belts)
      3. Greenland ice melt changing Gulf stream route
      4. Disease mutation (a virus that destroys chlorophyll)
    4. Man made sources:
      1. Nuclear annihilation
      2. Global warming
      3. Unchecked consumption of non-renewable resources
  2. Political and Scientific complications:
    1. Having one agency "defending the Earth" can produce both unjustified complacency and greater chances for man made scenarios
    2. Uncertainty of which scenario will actually happen next
    3. Uncertainty of the effectiveness of any mitigating process
    4. Who will pay for any preparations that may just be futile

I'm certain I left out some anticipated extinction scenarios, and of course there will always be the completely unknown. Let's not forget, geologic record shows that the Earth has already suffered five separate mass extinction cycles. Only two of these extinctions appear to be from celestial impact. The other three extinctions presently do not show a plausible cause. We don't know what the next extinction cycle will be. Let's not forget though that the five previous extinctions are one of the pivotal reasons that people instead of reptiles or insects or some other species dominate this planet. The next extinction will probably decimate humanity, but it will not eliminate life on Earth. A new collection of species will be granted the opportunity to flourish.

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#28
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 12:05 PM

Good points all, Red.

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#29
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 12:05 PM

The U.N. would argue over the color of the rescue ship till we were all dead . only the ELE can save up (Evil League of Evil) pray Dark Horse wants to save you.........

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#30

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 12:47 PM

Institution may need to be named. but what about a simultaneous missile defence system? that will activate all long range missile from all locations on globe at the same time.

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#31
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:05 PM

OUCH, if you are talking about ones with Nuclear war heads attached.

How many would fail to make upper atmosphere? Most have been sitting since the 50's. Last thing we need is a nuke falling back to earth somewhere or many.

I know many of ours and Russia's have been dismantled, I guarantee you not all from the 50's.

We still have failures with current rocket technology. I say we keep them in the ground. Besides we don't need to be blasting asteroids with a thermonuclear device. We don't even yet know what would happen to an asteroid if we did yet.

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#57
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/14/2009 12:25 PM

What of scalar tech or EM's

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#58
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/14/2009 1:23 PM

Do you mean electro magnetic pulse?

I did read recently that (I believe NASA, or a University, can't remember) are working on a massive laser to heat a spot on an asteroid to cause a heat flume to act as a pusher, similar to the dozer effect that would nudge the asteroid just a few degrees to miss earth.

The thing with the dozer is, once it has pushed the asteroid away enough, it returns to it's geo-spacial post and waits for the next signal to act.

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#59
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/14/2009 2:07 PM

Electromagnetic pulse yes though at this stage the initial result maybe speculative at best

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#60
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/14/2009 5:14 PM

Could be a possibility. I think the first thing we need to do is clean up all the junk around the earth orbit. There isn't 1 thing "MAN" has not polluted:

Lakes, streams, ground water, oceans, earth, now space around our planet, plus other planets and moons!

Space should be somewhat easier with a large deployed net, 3-4 crafts traveling just a cpl miles per hour faster than the space junk, catch it in the net and send it into the sun to melt away. Unless there is a super flare spewed from the sun and it throws it back at us. That could be the worse case scenario.

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#64
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/15/2009 5:25 AM

We could recycle it in the upper atmosphere instead everyone likes a light show

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#35
In reply to #30

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:39 PM

Now all we have to do is convince all missile based military commanders to surrender their weapon control to one unspecified Earth defense bureaucracy. Yeah, that idea has as much hope as a snow ball in a blast furnace. Besides, these missiles are not designed to achieve Earth orbit with their payload, let alone achieve Earth's escape velocity.

But even if these problems are solved, what do you think will happen when the first nuke explodes next to a 10 kilo-tonne rock. Maybe you'll 10,000 tonne rocks that may burn up in the atmosphere. That's a lot of dust in the air. But what if you get 20 500 tonne rocks. Instead of a lethal bullet, we get a lethal shotgun blast. Knee jerk answers will not solve this type of a problem.

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#32

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:22 PM

I hope we wouldn't stand around trying to decide who should take charge.

I REALLY hope every damn institution, including the Boy/Girl Scouts, would be doing everything in their power to prevent a collision or even a near miss.

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#34
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 1:34 PM

Amen to that!

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#37

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 2:09 PM

Clearly there is only one organization big enough and powerful enough to accomplish this task...and that would be The Illuminati. Past experts in cutting though red tape, or bypassing it altogether. Their allied organization, the RC church might be able to pray it away, though I suspect they would be better at picking up the pieces afterwards. (My faith in the power of prayer to prevent natural disasters has been sorely tested of late.)

Failing that, maybe it IS time to give the dolphins a kick at the top spot in the food chain. Its not like they would do any worse than we have. And they are so cute.....

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#40

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 9:11 PM

Time to call the Thunderbirds!

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#41
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 10:28 PM

Which Thunderbirds?

If you are talking about the guys in the movie Grease, well, those goombas might be able to hit a blackboard with a spitwad, but not much else, unless you tell them it will really annoy the teachers.

If you're talking about the USAF stunt flying team, they might have the piloting skills, but I'm not sure about their shooting accuracy.

The Oklahoma National Guard's 45th Infantry Brigade is also known as the Thunderbirds. They might have the shooting skills, but not the flying skills. By the time you come up with craft capable of taking them to space, and then training them, it'll be too late. Besides Oklahoma will probably have an EF-5 tornado tear up a bunch of houses, and the Govenor will need to call them out for security and cleanup. I wouldn't want their artillery guys anywhere near this project. They ran a machine gun range once during one of our summer camps, and they used targets for a 500-inch range on a 1000-inch range.

That leaves the large birds of Native American folklore, for which the 45th is named. Good luck finding one.

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#42
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/11/2009 11:34 PM

Americans, there are things beyond your border

these Thunderbirds off course!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbirds_(TV_series)

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#46
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 3:16 PM

I remember watching Fireball XL5 as a kid when I was younger, but I guess they never showed Thunderbirds in my area.

Thanks for informing me. BTW, your link doesn't work. It doesn't include the closing parenthesis.

I knew of the possibility of other groups called Thunderbirds. How many of the Thunderbirds I mentioned did you know about?

But then I forgot to mention the Ford Thunderbird. They wouldn't be useful in this situation except as projectiles to shoot at the asteroids.

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#49
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 8:43 PM

i new the Indian legend and the car of course, i don't even know the name of all the military outfits in my own country.

Thunderbirds were shown a lot in my country and the BBC itself off course

sorry that the link doesn't work must be a CR4 code thing

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#51
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 9:31 PM

The link didn't work because it didn't include the closing parenthesis. It took me to Wiki, but not to the page desired. I just clipboarded what there was of the title into the Wiki search box, added the missing character, and found the article.

When creating a link, be sure to highlight the entire URL. I like to check my links in the preview stage.

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#52
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 9:51 PM

I didn't create a link with CR4, i just pasted it

somehow the CR4 text-editor, did not recognized the last parenthesis as part of the link

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#45

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 12:43 PM

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WISH YOU ALL THE BEST YOURS

J.W

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#50
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/12/2009 8:57 PM

Thanks. I suspected it could be worked out, at least up to a certain point.

In general I do propose experiments, and I also believe in having a plan B, and a reserve.

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#54
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/13/2009 10:18 AM

A message sent in all capital letters is considered to be rude...as if you were yelling loudly in a small room full of your friends. Just so you know.

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#53

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/12/2009 9:55 PM

In thinking about this a bit more. What we need is to have a few "Tow Trucks" for lack of a better word, or Rocket "Bull Dozer's" in a few places around our planet to push these things out of the way of hitting Earth.

As for who would be in control, Ultimately the UN should be. They would need to put together a team to carry out the work and science, then contract to the best from every country to work on this system. The same that was done with the ISS.

After all, we are all on the same space rock.

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#66

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/15/2009 5:40 AM

The global offensive initiative though I think we're over reacting.

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#67

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/15/2009 4:47 PM

PETA

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#68

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 4:55 PM

So far, it would not appear that there is a Standing Institution we see as Internationally already in place.

However we could make arguments that it would be a legitimate role for the United Nations to take up.

I do intend to make it the focus of my upcoming speech.

It would be nice if I had a promising system to talk about.

It does appear that there is little in the way of "Off the Shelf" technology, rockets and the like that can be easily applied, though I do suspect there is something around for a transitional stopgap until a more perfect system can be put in place.

I am so far not for the Laser System, because I can't see how the spinning or tumbling will allow for the focus point time called for.

The Nuclear Bomb Blast seems iffy all around, and partly objectionable politically since there would be nation states fearful of the Earth threat.

So far, I am for The Cue Ball System whereby a rocket or rockets hit the asteroid so as to deflect it.

(I allow that some sort of explosive charge may well be called for.) I also like the idea of having multiples of rockets parked in the L5 zone, so as to incorporate into the system a "reserve".

I am also in the position of wanting access to information concerning the Star Wars systems, which I believe are not particularly promising for us in relation to our Earthbound squabbles, buy may well be "good enough" for application to the asteroid problem. Or at least systems to be built on.

P.S. Thanks for your interest. I believe we can work something up. I believe that there are two problems. One is creating a Planet Defense Institution, and the other is making sure it utilizes the most practical system. I highly recommend we continue to see if we can identify asteroid threats, and experiment with hitting them with things to see what happens.

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#69
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 5:09 PM

For those of you who have read about Nicola Tesla, and a little harmonic gizmo he came up with that he tested on the steel frame of a skyscraper, he stated that with more power and more time, he could split the earth in two. I think that this sort of device is a method of breaking up large asteroids into more manageable pieces. The problem really is about how to move enough mass off the earth, or out of the asteroid belt, and accelerate it in order to play billiards with the pieces.

Chris

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#70
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 6:45 PM

I don't know Chis. Though it might be fun to break an Asteroid, I am still for changing its trajectory over splitting it in half.

Of course I recognize you are thinking of Moon sized Asteroids, whereas I am thinking of the more common sizes.

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#71
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 7:12 PM

The size doesn't matter.. smaller = more manageable.. If you wish to smack them into outer space, or propel them with rockets..small = better. this gizmo will help break them down. So what you need is mass lift capability, and forewarning.

Chris

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#72
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 9:57 PM

Smaller might be more manageable when it comes to deflection or destruction, but could be harder to detect. I'm thinking of those asteroids big enough to cause significant damage, but they have so far escaped detection. Didn't just such an asteroid pass by, one that wasn't found until days before it passed by?

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#74
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 12:47 AM

What we need and what we've got may well be two different things.

Bhankii says I need to come up with 100 Billion as a typical ball park figure for a new system.

To even start asking seriously for that sort of money I need a progressive plan that utilizes if nothing else stuff that at least has a prayer of working.

For the time being let us pretend Transcendia, is the organization.

I shall be going out seriously and asking for funds for this project, and this is not a pretend on my part, I am committed to that.

Now I am not wild about mass lift systems because of current technology.

The Shuttle is coming to an end of its useful life.

I don't now have relations with the Russians.

I guess I need some spies.

I also feel that size does matter.

Possibly the Russians do have a system along the lines of what I have envisioned, but as we know they do not visit openly CR4.

As far as their plans I would suspect they have revealed them to the French.

Of course they would have strong incentives not to reveal any plans that worked same or better than any Star Wars Technology.

I have said I got in trouble about some of that in the past.

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#73
In reply to #70

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/15/2009 10:45 PM

Okay but can we blast it after deflection

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#77
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 2:08 AM

Plan B?

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#78
In reply to #77

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 3:53 AM

To detect and track asteroids. here is one idea.

send a small tactical nuke into space, to a point on the dark side of the moon... (to protect us) set up basically radar detectors at various points on moon, and elsewhere.. set off the nuke, detect all reflecting bodies in solar system. Compare frequencies to frequencies of nuke.. a week or month later.. do the same thing..see what has moved? plot trajectories.

Chris

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#79
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 10:38 AM

A week would be too long given the speed at which these objects are cruising.

We need to monitor hour by hour and try to detect them when they are several light hours away, track trajectory, evaluate threat and take action. We need to have several satellites in earths orbit with sole purpose of detecting NEAR only.

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#80
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 11:51 AM

Do you think Solar light is sufficient for the job? I was just trying to create a bright strobe source and for 'planet killers' way out, I think a few seconds of arc in a week would be right...I wasn't thinking close in, as they would be detectable with existing technology and solar light.

Cheers,

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#84
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 3:02 PM

Actually further out is much better for predicting trajectory. If "Solar light" means using mirrors mounted on small satellites in such a way of them using X-Y axis scanning technique with a sensor that locks on to a target spotted through reflection back to the mirror, then relay this info to a Central control station alert system,

once detected, then we cold determine the trajectory, if within 100,000 miles we could leave it alone, or test on it. When DD45 whizzed by at 410,000 miles (which I do not consider close), some were freaked that it was not detected. But it was and was being tracked. There was no credible threat so it wasn't broadcast, except for the few. Now on the other hand, if in fact it was headed to Earth and it was "known" to strike. One of 2 things would be done at present.

#1 Do nothing, therefore reducing the planet from mass panic with the likes of never seen before.

#2 Broadcast to all life on Earth that you have 57 hours to get your spiritual lives in order. The end is coming, Bend Over, Kiss Your Ass Goodbye. Creating mass panic.

So for those who scan the heavens above for NEAR, what is their game plan since at present we do not have a way to deal with such a threat?

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#82
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 12:31 PM

Great idea but popping the empty pretzel bag would suffice

Instead we catch a ray of sunshine and reflect it and the device should be fitted with a defense too. How awful for our planet killer defense system to be taken out by a pebble.

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#75

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/16/2009 1:34 AM

In order to do anything to an Asteroid you need to see it coming first. So far 2 have sped by without us even seeing it.

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#76
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/16/2009 1:57 AM

sounds much like a blind man practicing a counter-punch.

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#81
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/16/2009 12:28 PM

Thanks

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#83

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/16/2009 1:00 PM

Some of the software for this job might already exist, and that could help cut costs.

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#86

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 4:24 PM

In the game Asteroids, how is the Asteroid detected?

Wild, the idea of the Atomic Flashbulb!

Radar is probably more practical. I imagine lower operating costs, though suspect telescopes will always be needed for a complete detection system.

Space debris and regular old mirrors, and meteors likely make the big mirror fill light system vulnerable.

Now it may well be possible to put up on the Moon a Solar Panel powered Flash System similar to the sort of light you put on a camera to get a capacitor discharge.

I am reacting to what I glean as the detection problem.

We do have some little advantage in that our detection system does not necessarily have to be focused 360 degrees.

Asteroids do seem to have "orbits" or Trajectories, and do not seem to generally come from anyside of the the screen, as in the game, Asteroids.

The order of Business is: Perfect the Asteroid Detection System. Then put in place the best system available and test it on whatever Asteroids detected.

Then improve the system.

Make sure that the system includes redundancy, and has essentially a reserve capacity, as is standard operating procedure for military commanders in conflicts.

Philosophically there is no impediment for us to think, or work to implement a Planet Defense System intended to defend the planet from the known threat of Asteroids.

I cannot find true harm from doing so, though I am not so much a fool as to not recognize tort events.

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#87
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 4:54 PM

What gives you the idea that we only have to look in a narrow direction? Nothing limits the movement of asteroids and comets to the ecliptic or galactic plane. Comets come from the Oort cloud that appears to be nearly spherical around or solar system. Several known comets move greatly outside the ecliptic plane. But along the ecliptic plane itself they come also in any direction. True, they don't wrap around the screen the way Asteroids the video game does. (What would a cosmologist do with that kind of universe?)

Philosophically there is no impediment to stopping all war by Christmas. It just doesn't happen. Until somebody finds a way to pay for a planetary defense system, or other Science can be done with the system, this will forever remain idle chatter. I don't know about you, but I prefer my idle chatter with a pint of Guinness.

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#89
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 5:34 PM

I was under the impression that though an Asteroid or Comet may well come from any direction, that from some directions it was more likely than others.

I am not as worried about Comets, as Asteroids, for two reasons.

One Comets do seem to have somewhat established paths, and two right now even if one was coming, we are unlikely to have time to do much about it, whereas it would appear we could in short order do something about the Asteroid threat.

As far as funding I have my speech coming up and intend to ask for money for the best system I know about.

In my past I was real fond of half and half, or just Harp. I used to drink in Brownies in the East Village back when you could have a conversation there. I guess I prefer Harp to Guiness really, but you can't get either on tap around where I live, so I typically drink Miller Lite, since it is palatable, and weak, and near to water. I agree that funding is important so far as to have pledged to ask for it in my upcoming speech.

However it is important that I have as much information as possible about possible systems prior to my speech.

I am aware that dual use for such systems is a problem, and I may not be able to get the best information, due to interests who have interests in keeping some of what they know secret.

For such reasons I am inclined to welcome "Guests", for it is obvious to me, they may have something to offer now and then.

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#88
In reply to #86

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 5:24 PM

did I forget to mention how to alter the path of the asteroid... or blow it up.

its like hunting skeet on the wing.. with a big gun.. only the skeet are farther away.. but you do have a computer controlled aiming system...and a nuclear powered rail gun (on the far side of the moon again.. those poor loonies won't be happy) which will accelerate small masses to near light speed.. giving them huge mass....

Now that we are getting into the nano technology era, we will hopefully be able to make superfine, superconducting, heat resistant, radiation hardened conductors, which will very efficiently capture the EMP. (more conductor turns = more effective power)

but remember, its the empty gun that kills... especially this one.

Chris

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#90
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 5:48 PM

Skeet are Fragile. I'm pretty good with a shotgun.

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#91

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/16/2009 5:54 PM

Slightly off topic but I think a Zim team should be selected.

They are capable of protecting Mugabe

The only country that can budget using trillion $ bills.

The poor object will need a Gooz (Get Out Of Zim) card.

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#92
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/16/2009 6:25 PM

Don't know much about that.

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#93

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/17/2009 8:27 AM

Well, if Bruce Willis and a bunch of crazy rednecks can do it, does it really matter? <Cough>

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#94

Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/18/2009 10:03 PM

And if the planetary defense system was established, what would be around to stop someone either hacking the system and redirecting the platform to earth targets or a government head taking control and doing the same...

aka - Babylon 5 - When the president in a last act of defiance, turned the planetary defence system back on the people of Earth. (Season 5 I think it was)

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#95
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System?

03/18/2009 10:31 PM

So you are saying we need to built a Babylon station so Captain sheridan can resque us?

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#96
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Re: What Institution On Earth Would Be Best To Implement A Planet Defense System

03/19/2009 7:25 PM

Since we are warned by the TV show, then we must guard against that possibility aye?

I have suggested that the US Post Office protect the mail, by stopping hackers.

My mother watches all that stuff, so I will ask her what she thinks.

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