Doesn't Anyone Read a Map Anymore?

We like maps in our household... we spread 'em over the floor and pore over 'em.
That's when I come and sit down in the middle!
Dunno why it's just what us cats do...
Del

Does anyone use a slide rule instead of a calculator? Do golfers still use persimmon woods? Do surveyors still use optical instruments instead of lasers? Get My drift?

oilcan13

Certainly I love maps myself. However when I drove a taxi in Rochester New York I learned how to use a Street Directory. For navigating urban environments quickly I found a Street Directory to be superior. Oddly enough a good Street Directory can be difficult to find for some cities.

Non UK resisdents stop here...
I was going to Ikea at Lakeside with Daught' to buy a wardrobe...signs on M11 & M25 said severere delays...saw the queue on the M25 one junction before the Thurrock turnoff... got off quick and navigated the back roads by sense of smell. Pulled over to check on the map book...spot on...bish bash bosh no prob' jobs a good 'un.
Ikea at Lakeside on a Saturday when I could have been playing golf?...
I wouldn't have missed it for the world <cough splutter>

(I told you to stop but you didn't listen did you)

Del

I have been to the Ikea in Austin. That is one crazy store! Not bad for a Friday afternoon with the wife and kids, but Saturday morning is indeed for golf...or target practice!

What, you went on a Friday and managed to get out before Saturday...
Even the best navigation skills can leave you lost in those places...artificial light...like a maze...but a maze which is trying to sell you stuff...relentlessly...more furniture and dried flowers...and weird cooking utensils...and unidentifiable stuff...and fold up things...let me out...meout...meoooowt.
The only consolation is the pretty ladies in their summer clothes.
Del

I've been to the one at Springwood (before they moved to a bigger one) on the way to the Gold Coast once, call it twice. I'm not a cow and I refuse to be herded, besides the stuff is overpriced crap. Definitely Meooooowt.

Shadow readings, FWTW: point the hour hand of your analog watch at the sun and so south is halfway between this and 12 noon on your watch unless you are on daylight savings. let's say this tells you that the sun is currently in the SW. Now the shadow of every roadside pole points NE so you know continuously the direction you are heading.

How do I put carriage returns between savings. and let's?

Watch? Analog Watch? What's that?

Any reader close to the equator or south of it please disregard the above....

I hate GPS systems. We learned to use a compass and follow routs on paper. this is always going to be the best way. When you follow a GPS you are blindly following a preloaded program. You miss so much of the world around you. GPS also doesn't always have the ability to get you around unexpected obstacles. If you look at a map you can navigate as you go.

When I am going to an unfamiliar location I prefer my GPS guidance.

If an obstacle is posted I can poke the detour button and tell it how many miles to avoid and it will calculate my detour route and talk me through it.

If I make a wrong turn it will guide me back.

People driving alone with a map and compass is kind of funny because someone has to steer.

Mapquest works too.

I'm particular to the GPS function which alerts me when I've passed the location I'm going to.

This is extremely helpful when directions given do not match the signage. Such as the directions are to turn left at Cline's Corner; everyone local knows this is rte 84 but the sign indicates Cline's corner is twenty miles east yet.

Bwire,

Exactly! That happens here with mine too.

Jon

Compasses are all very good, but when the earth's poles change (as they are overdue) you will be stuck (especially if you didn't realise they had changed)

That is when the sun compass becomes really useful

The poles don't flip in an instant (as far as current thinking goes) - they may 'flip' on a geological time-scale, but not ours. The poles weaken and sort of swirl around with varying intensity, progressively getting more unstable before the 'flip'. For some period of time (I've no idea how long) a compass would be spinning all over the place before a stable (but reversed) polarity sets in.

Just went looking for a pic and found a reasonable summary here. I reckon it would be safe to go out walking with a compass when it all happens, just call North 'Whatever' so as not to get confused with notions of the sun being in the South (Sorry Oz - at least I'm not Richard Branson )!

GPS Sat-nav? Map? Who needs those when you have a wife?

Never had a Sat-nav system; don't ever intend on having one either. The wife and I can both read a map, but she would rather put the map away and say: Go that-a-way! Just for the adventure.

Oh so true, so true...

The real adventure starts on those abandoned country roads!

A wife will get lost more!

I went shopping yesterday with a friend to look for a new GPS. He found one he liked, Garmin 265W, which even took us to my home, which my older Garmin couldn't find. His old one got him lost more than a dozen times, so he tossed it. The door pockets of his car, as well as mine, are stuffed with maps, but they are hard to unfold and read while driving (I've done it a few times, and I must say it's a lot more dangerous than talking on a cell phone).

I did my part in teaching my children to read maps, and I assume they will teach theirs (if they ever make me a grandfather, that is).

GPS's are good for finding bars and restaurants, police departments, hospitals, and other such places in towns through which one seldom travels.

I still do my navigating with the time of day and sun to get from one general area to another. When I get to a place I can find on a map, I'll look at the details. Good GPS units will sometimes make that unnecessary.

By the way, have you seen the new Google Earth?

"a loss of traditional map-reading skills on the horizon"

Yes - the ability to navigate always seems to happen where you least expect it.

You can see why people would want to get lost in Adelaide, for a few brief minutes they could pretend they were somewhere else.

Gotta map?

A guy from Adelaide came to see me one day and he did not know his way around Townsville. I said I'd take over the driving and was lost after 2km. I hardly drive in the "big smoke" and was surprised when Pete took out a GPS and typed in the destination. Catholic Hanglider Club Mt Speck.

A nice female voice got us there in no time at all. With out it I would have asked for directions but that would not be advisable in a City like Townsville. (Not even my spell check likes it). Not that it would be dangerous but the people, not in cars, are happy to know were they are in the first place.

Going buy Google street view a day before does not help much because it all looks the same. Single story small businesses trying their heart out to make a living. And suburbia till the cows come home.

I live on Magnetic Island and no map is needed. If the ocean is on the left I am on my way home, sort of a thing. Much like your great City. If it would not be for the cold I would have stayed a bit longer.

Now Port, you Go you good thing.

We have native crows around here and when they do their squawk (you know the one) I always tell them to "shut up Russel" and they obey. Go the mighty Rabbits!

Sorry internationals, insider trading.

Would a new road map towards peace help? Gotta map? Gotta GPS? Gotta go, Ky.

<...Basic concepts of orienteering should be taught as part of primary education....>

Hear, hear!

Maps? East and west?

I visited a school in a far north place. The teacher was explaining that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. The students had funny looks on their faces. Most of the school year the sun came up and set in the south but was not seen much. The rest of the year it went around in a circle and almost set in the north.

On a clear day you could see the Russain mainland out the window to the northeast.

There were 2 miles of road in winter and 7 during the short summer.

The Vikings had a sun compass that also served as a clock because it tracked the sun and thus gave a kind of clock function when sailing in high latitudes. These sun compasses also called sun stones consist of polarized optical quality crystals that can point to the location of the sun even on cloudy days.

The best and perhaps the only known source of sun stones was Iceland.

These were in use several centuries before the magnetic floating needle became known in European navigation circles. I discovererd this quite by accident while researching what if any navigation tools and techniques were in use by Viking sailors.

Elnav,

Thanks. That is interesting. They had lots of cloudy days too.

Jon

I'm the original sceptic. Didn't believe it until I try it myself. However I did remember seeing some optical calcite in a rock and gem shop so I went ther and they still had it.

Took it home and experimented. Optical Calcite does polarize light and it does a beam split. According to Norse legend and some more scholarly work by other researchers, a dark spot is placed on one of the facets. When you look at the two images they have different density but it varies according to how you orient the crystal relative to sunlight. When the two images have exactly same density the long axis of crystal is aligned to point to sun. You get the same effect with a polarizer filter for a camera. Except camera filters do not beam split. My crystal is 1" thick and it gives so so distance between the two images . A 2" rock would be better.

Because polarizing of the sky is evident even with total overcast you can in fact determine the direction of the sun. In high latitudes where the sun hardly sets below the horizon during the summer ( sailing season) it can also serve as a clock when used in conjunction with a traverse board or similar flat board.

Although it is not documented in so many words the Vikings probably learned how to use an Arabian Kamal since they had overland trade routes into the Moorish territories and as far east and south as the Black sea. Annual trade expeditions overland and down the Russian river Riga went on for decades if not centuries.

Sun stones were highly prised and had equivalent value as a fine stallion plus gold. National Geographic had an article and there are other source such as the Saga that suggest Vikings did in fact have a sort of map ( cartography) skill but it was a highly guarded trade secret. These map showed the most profitable trade route over seas or overland. Imagine if they had possessed something as accurate as GPS or even Loran.

Typical of many things, it's not what you've got, but how you use it.

GPS is some great stuff, wish I had one.

I remember when the pilots started sneaking them in their planes.

North and True North are two different things.

It is nice in the thread that it has been mentioned that sometimes the map is flawed.

When going anywhere on my own time, for the first time, I always allow for "lost time".

When I first started driving a cab, another cab driver said, "Never trust directions from a woman."

Actually it is known from studies that men and women think differently about how to navigate. It is typical for women to not know where North South East or West actually is. Actually directions do mean directions, and it is helpful if you do say go North on Highway 00 till you get to the Piggly Wiggly.

Of course if you know that a woman will say go to the Piggly Wiggly and turn right, well, maybe left, well head towards the hairdressers, and then turn, left, well there is only one way to turn there, and then go to Aunt Martha's house, and then turn right, well, maybe left, but really, you can't miss it, its up the hill, then all will become clear, eventually.

Heh heh heh heh

I just reread from the beginning

What a buncha cranky old farts! You kids get offa my lawn!

I just did a quick test. I asked the wife the following. It's 0800 AM, you are driving down a road and the sun is directly ahead of you. In what direction are you driving?

Answer ?. . . ? I don't know! then guessing, she says.... west? south?

Same thing happened, another time, different woman. Same answer.

And they have the nerve to tell me where to go??

It has been scientifically proven that women have trouble telling left from right. Do you expect them to tell cardinal points from looking at the sun and the clock at the same time? You must be Del, I meant, crazy...

Although I was 86'd from cubscouts AND boyscouts.. Not to mention many bars in my wilder days, I never use a GPS as I rely on what I learned back when I was mean to the other scouts. Regular, old fashioned, paper maps are good for me and once an EMF, either natural or man-made, hits a satellite for GPS... Non map readers who need directions are screwed. (Mostly Obama supporters, so that's a real good thing!)

We should all keep the old map reading knowledge in mind.

JL Mealer

http://mealercompanies.com

Gee can't anyone tell direction anymore without reference to artificial aids like maps amd instruments or compasses.

While attending an officer training course we got sent out on an orienteering exercise. My partner and I got seperated. He had the map and compass. I only had a brief look at the map a couple of minutes before we started out. He eventually returned to base. I proceeeded on my own. I hit every check point and picked up a couple of lost guys along the way. I returned to camp leading these two clowns just in time to learn a search party was being assembled to go look for me. Beats me how anyone can get lost in an area only ten square miles of rough terrain. It was still daylight, so what is the problem? A single GPS station will not give compass direction. It will only give a direction in which you are moving.

Sure, I can tell direction. I know which way is north. But a sense of direction will never be enough to tell you how to find the intersection of Tyler Avenue and Anderson Street in an unfamiliar town. No amount of orienteering expertise can give you that ability. What good is knowing the compass points if you don't know which one you need to follow?

A sense of direction is fine in a rural area, but in a city you have to have a map. Once you get to know the streets in a city, you might not need that map (or GPS) anymore.

<...in an area with no landmarks, no street signs, and no helpful farmers...>

Ah! That's easy. It's Lincolnshire!

I will worry about brushing up on my map reading skills if and when required. In the meantime, why would anyone use an old map when they can have a continuously updated GPS system that actually tells you not only where you want go but where you are.

Reminds of the silly deck officers pointing over complicated coconut shells at the sun at noon to try and find out approximately where we were when there was a perfectly good instrument on the bridge that told them exactly where we were. Oh but what happens if the instrument fails they wail? OK, so what happens if your clock fails - coconut no damned good now.

Lets join the 21st Century and enjoy its advantages - old is not best, that is why we invent new.

Maybe that's true if you are just talking about navigation on the roads.
In the UK we are blessed with accurate well detailed contour maps from the Ordnance Survey which allow accurate navigation off road and allow you to find points of interest from castles and standing stones, to waterfalls springs and scree slopes.
_{(It's handy being able to find springs if you are mending drum brakes)}

It's most dissapointing to go somewhere like Italy and be unable to get a decent map for exploration on foot.
Of course I realise the USA is rather large to map decently and is a tad short on castles.
Del

We have USGS maps with contours. They don't sound as detailed as your Ordinance Maps but if we had Castles here in the States (there are a few) I'm sure they would show up on Our USGS maps.

I prefer a detailed printed map over GPS myself. But I use both on a regular basis. As far as driving by yourself and using a map. Here is is a concept far you, Pull over to the side of the road to use it. You should also do this if your using a GPS and not using the voice function. I even pull off the road to use my cell phone. When I drive a car I drive the car, I don't play with gadgets . Other than changing the radio station once in a while when a really annoying commercial comes on I prefer to concentrate on avoiding being hit by some YAHOO playing with toys instead of driving their car.

Try chasing a Hot air balloon without a good street map. A GPS will help you locate where they set down if you lose them, but while they're up in the air a detailed street map in the cars navigators hand is much more useful but only if they know how to read a map. I proved this to a fellow chaser when he insisted he could use his laptop with a GPS and follow the balloon better than I could with a good detailed street guide. His GPS and laptop would have kept us withing range of the balloon. But I can usually get ahead of the balloon enough to be ready to help when they touch down.

I'm proud to say I've never lost contact with my pilots balloon and I'm either at their chosen landing site ahead of them or just a minute or 2 behind them.

You'd be amazed how fast a balloon can move cross country while there is only a slight breeze on the ground the currents where they are flying are moving much faster. The hardest part about traveling to a competition outsdie your normal flight areas is finding a GOOD DETAILed Street guide of the area they will be flying in.

Eh?

If you can find an engineers supply depot and if you can find US corp of engineers coordinate info on paper in the depot you may be able to navigate accurately anywhere in the U.S. of A.. This level of navigation is not considered necessary to get around unless on walk about I suppose.

Del-

Actually, in the old days, detailed maps of the US were really quite good and well detailed. There were National Geodesic Survey Maps available for all of the US, in multiple scales, depending on your needs. I think they are still available.

I have to admit, British Admiralty Charts are generally much, much better than thier US counterparts, and many dating from the 1880's are still useful today.

I happen to enjoy maps for the sake of maps- a good map is a work of art, and I have a number of them hanging on the walls for decoration. I can think of no better way to while away a lazy Sunday afternoon than pouring over a new map, perhaps discovered on the back shelves of some local used book store...

cwarner7_11

I agree, they can be fine art. You have to be careful with them were you are, as you know. Good framing can help to extend their life. I have seen nasty surprises when people just kept them 'some where'. In the right conditions they can come alive and end up being beyond repair.

Take care, Ky.

Hey PW. I use a map. I like maps, I like being able to see something other than a tiny 3.5" screen. I like to be able to see the topography and the relationship of one destination to another. Furthermore, in this part of the world, there are roads on the map that aren't on the GPS.

I also appreciate the beauty of maps. They are really nice to look at in addition to navigate with.

I have a scouting group at my church, I teach the boys map and compass, so hopefully the skill won't die.

<...teach the boys map and compass, so hopefully the skill won't die...>

That's very good news.

As a matter of fact, I'm a collector of old maps, and I also appreciate the beauty of them. I also have a map of the world and a map of the USA adorning one wall in my living room.

There is a beutiful map room in the Vatican, well it's more like a huge corridor really, the maps of the Italian coast and the Mediteranean are painted directly onto the walls. It's easy to imaging the merchants, politicians and such like gathered around planning their exploits...Most people just scurried past to see the Sistine Chapel which was beautiful but far less useful.

Del

Old maps can be a piece of art, as well as a part of history.

Does anyone collect old sat-navs yet?

I've got an old e-Trex Legend that I haven't used in a long time, and that's far eclipsed by the number of old cell phones I now have in a collection.

Well . . . I have a collection including a couple of Loran units. does that qualify?

I have some old 5 channel prototype boards as well as newer 12 ch units.

Two years ago I was in Illinois and Wisconsin and picked up lovely Rand McNally touring atlas of the US, all spiral bound for easy access. Much more interesting than a 3" square. I like to plan my trips and have an overview.

It also made a great souvenir, don't think Mr Avis would have liked me to souvenir his GPS.

I use maps and mapquest as a general rule, my family gave my wife (she is severely directionally challenged) a Garmin for Xmas last year and she uses it to get everywhere. Since she got it, she has:

- Met me for lunch at the wrong branch of the chain restaurant.

- Driven 30 miles to get to the Hobby Lobby when there was one at our highway exit.

- Gotten us lost in Dallas when she entered the wrong suburb that happened to have a road with the same name.

- Gotten lost heading from church to the house more than once.

In my opinion, these things make you completely helpless when it comes to finding where you are and where things are supposed to be. I had to learn how to read a map in Driver's Ed, did anyone else?

There was a case of a truck driver who got wedged under a bridge in spite of big warning signs because he was just following the GPS.

Here are some more

http://www.engadget.com/tag/gps+accident/

I used to drive a film truck in and around Manhattan. It was 12' 3". Often I got directions from Production Companies that did not take my truck height into account.

Often I got "directions" with no directions such as North South East or West. In one case since all I had was exit numbers and no experience with the route, I guessed wrong at the direction.

In Queens once I turned under one bridge marked 12'3" and immediately began to scrape.

Sometimes what happens is the road will be repaved, but the sign will not be changed.

-of course this is very unlikely to have had any influence over the pictured event, as that would imply about 6 feet of additional pavement.

You are just scratching the tip of the iceberg...

We are more and more dependant on technology. Cut the electricity of any large city and count the deads...