Post deleted by Admin

It was not a good answer but a stupid immature answer and people encouraging fools will do harm. Would you look a poor kid in Japan today who has serious deformities because of what happened on August 6 and August 9 1945 and laugh at him? Not if I was present. I advise you to retract that sick post. Shall we laugh at the poor kids who was burned by Napalm in Vietnam or lets have fun about the victims in Northern Ireland also or shall we laugh at the poor victims of 9/11? A better joke might be in answer to another question.....Ok lets ask the victims of Auchwitz. What fun .Ok lets have some fun and laugh at innocents.

Than you Admin. Much appreciated.

got something in mind?........

well... yeah. Im kinda worried about an attack to LA or something like that (which would be very close to my city). so, if I need to get away from that explosion I would need to drive as south as I can. But how fast does the shock wave and fallout travel?? would I be faster than the fallout? or radioactivity?? offcourse not the shockwave but... makes you wonder.

Which way does the prevailing wind normally blow over your city?

It blows to the north east... circles around all the north hemisphere.... so I should go south... as I can't go west since I am in baja peninsula.

and by the way... theres a nuclear reactor like 25 miles south from LA in San Onofre. How would that affect?? To my understanding the nuclear explosion goes off but the nuclear reactor does not explode like an A bomb right?? its more like it contaminates a huge radius

"San Onofre"? The fault will kill you before you have to worry about the bomb.

fault?? you mean san andres... right? haha. its comming man, I can feel it.... somethin bad is about to happen

sounds like the announcer from the Game 3 of the '89 world series at candlestick park.......I think we're having a earthqua..............

Oh! Nobody told you?

Harmonic Tremors: San Onofre Breccia

Earthquake Hazard Analysis: Issues and Insights - Google Books Result

Sorry, I'm taking us OT

Note: You are already subscribed to this discussion. Go your profile to edit subscriptions.

Have a look at these interactive maps -

http://meyerweb.com/eric/tools/gmap/hydesim.html

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/nuclear_weapon_effects/falloutcalc.html?formAction=297&contentId=426

and another one to play around with:

http://www.carloslabs.com/node/20

Fallout (= radioactive dust etc. from the blast): locally, think speed of sound. Further away, think speed of the wind. Can have effects up to thousands of miles from ground zero. Also persists for many years.

Wholly dependent on altitude of burst...

Hello JohnDG,

GA to you Sir!.

Short and sweet, compared to mine! Well done.

You have the basics correct but I'd like to add a few more critical details. The neutron and transfission heavy ion spray from the initial blast both embed and transmute fixed and dispersable elements in the surrounding enviorment. The fixed elements become fixed radioactive contaminants while the dispersible elements become radioactive fallout. Now starting immediately after the blast these unstable atoms start to decay, by releasing one of three types of radiation alpha, beta, and gamma. While an alpha and beta source external to the body are of little risk, internal to the body they are the most damaging. This is what makes fallout so dangerous. This also why protective suits and resperators are worn in a contaminated area, to prevent ingestion of particulates. The suits do not stop the radiation.

There's also a mathematical oddity that happens that's easier to explain the effect than the math. Most of the transmuted elements initially created have a very short half life. Because of this the radiation levels stay very intense immediately after the mechanical shock wave flys by. After a day or two the radiation levels drop to where they will be for years.

As long as you are wearing your tin-foil hat, and have a clean set of unobtainium undergarments, you'll be ok.

I would suspect, If a bomb went off that close to you, It might not matter, considering the other hundreds of thousands of people trying to flee an area that is already so congested you can barely make ground on a normal day during rush hour.

Live life, don't fear death.

It would get your minds off your budget crisis.

John's answer is very good...

If you survived the shock wave, and if you survived the initial radiation dose, you might survive if you could drive far enough and fast enough to avoid the fall out.

In a car with the windows up and the ac on recycle would help. In a car you would be shielded from Alpha and Beta, but gamma would still be a problem.

The problem is that many thousands of others would be fleeing south, and there would probably be grid lock, as well as fighting and shooting that would be even more dangerous. Best bet might be a good 4wd that would allow you to go through the desert rather than having to stay on the road ways.

If you are not killed in the blast zone, and you stay underground or covered by dirt, moving away from the radiation fall out zone in a closed car, may be a good idea.

When I was a kid Civil Defense Brochures said get under dirt. They had a picture of a lean to made of a door covered in dirt, where you were supposed to hide.

Rule of thumb seems to be, if you aren't killed right off, and don't die a horrible death within three weeks, you may well survive for a good deal of time.

From what I can tell from my time spent in Harrisburg, and Middletown Penn., where was Three Mile Island, many who had been around for the whole thing did die of Leukemia, or Thyroid cancers earlier than they might have normally.

This US event was not a particularly terrible event when compared to Chernobyl. It is not expected that the Chernobyl area will be as it was, or as less poisoned places for another 30 years, from what I remember.

I'm not sure what Bombs are most likely to be used these days, and the Chernobyl and Three Mile Island events were not bomb events, and only currently comparable to dirty bomb events.

The major actual Nuclear Bomb events as threats come now from North Korea, or Pakistan, though we don't really know what Israel might do to Iran. The US and Russia are not really likely to set these sorts of bombs off.

Frankly if I was Secretary General of the UN I'd be doing every arm twist or sweet talk or whatever to get China to get all of North Korean Atomic Bombs out of the threats to normal working class people.

Personally I think I could hang out with Iranians, for they are not without humor, if you get to know them, and as a poet, I understand some of their serious writings.

-As far as getting out of town if you survive a Nuclear Blast nearby, it is best to keep radioactive dust off you, and a car may be somewhat radioactive.

LA is not a primary target as NYC and Washington are, so relax.

If you are of means I do recommend people of means pay a "retainer" to a trustworthy helicopter service to come and get them.

I told this to the neighbors who moved to New Orleans prior to the Katrina Hurricane event. Scientific American did predict that event about 2 years before it happened.

The upstairs Condo Neighbors didn't like me much, and I didn't really appreciate their hatreds, but I did say when they told me they were moving to New Orleans that it would be a good idea to pay a helicopter pilot to come and get them, when the place got flooded. P.S. I have a copy of Dr. Strangelove I watch from time to time.

Dr. Strangelove would have to be one of my favourite movies. Brilliant, hilarious and thought provoking.

"Men, you can't fight in here - this is the war room!"

Re: "...it is best to keep radioactive dust off you, and a car may be somewhat radioactive."

Obviously you must have meant that any car in the vicinity of a blast might be CONTAMINATED with radioactive debris / fallout ... because ... obviously, NO PART of any car ever manufactured to date (excludes hollywood fantasies) has any potential for either BEING, or for BECOMING radioactive...

"Cheers" ---

Hello Guest,

We have to hope that this Laboratory

never get the parts it uses mixed up with the parts fitted to a car!!! ;=)

=

=

eFootage - Stock Footage - DETROIT FACTORY LABORATORY USES ... Cut to a factory laboratory in Detroit where automotive researchers assemble special car engines with radioactive parts. The researchers run the engines and ...

www.efootage.com/.../detroitfactorylaboratorylaboratorieslablabsfactoriescar

- Cached - Similar -

Again starting with "If you lived long enough to have choices..."

Most fallout is dealt with by simply washing it off immediately.

NBC instructions are available all over the web, but if you are already feeling nervous the sites where you would get the advice are going to make you feel much worse.

So thinking in terms of toxic particles, what you do not want to do is carry them out with you - and mostly you do no want to breathe them in the long run.

So if you are not willing to buy a good commercial particulate mask, then turn on the A/C in RECIRCULATE mode - might want to test it for outside air exclusion before hand.

But I personally think you are worrying about the wrong things.

And most of what I said goes for having your reactor crack, too.

Outside of masks, filters, and perhaps discarding your vehicle at the first opportunity (store another in Blythe?) - everything else you would do requires lots more education. If you want the education, the Civil Defense has been revived under the name of First Responder training available from your county. Generally free.

Adding to what's already been said:

If it's one bomb, it's probably a terrorist lash up. Dirty as hell, not much of a bang. Go to windward post haste, and keep going.

If it's several bombs, were ALL in it deep.

Plan ahead by having a complete change of clothes in a sealed package, bottled water, canned or sealed food, the usual emergency gear, and Dulse (seaweed) or iodine pills to fill up your thyroid gland. Wash everything once you are clear of the immediate threat.

Think of radiation as invisible anti-seize. It gets everywhere, hard to wipe or wash off, and transportable over long distances. Decontamination should be ongoing, ridding yourself of as much of your old stuff as you can. Light soapy water and lemon juice is a good de-con fluid.

Don't Panic !

I do not believe you will survive, but it depends greatly upon who's bomb it is as every type of bomb produces different amounts and types of fallout! Some fallout is only toxic for a short while, others are for thousands of years! Other types of fallout will penetrate through just about anything! So to properly answer your question I would need to know the type of bomb and the materials present where the bomb was detinated. Many things in the area of the blast will become highly radio active, so there is no simple answer other than to not play with nuclear weapons! Just to qualify myself I am a retired Navy Nuclear engineer with many years training and experience in the field of nuclear power, weapons, and their effects!

I would also like to point out that modern bombs are so powerful (tens of thousands of times more than the WWII bombs) that even NORAD (which is located 1 mile deep in a granite mountain) would not survive!!! Your typical shelter would be no match for any modern weapon! Maybe if you were at the bottom of the deepest diamond mine (5 miles deep!) you would survive, but the blast would seal you in so heavily that you could never dig yourself out in time to get more air! Again pointless to think you can survive nuclear weapons! If you would like more information mail me: johnd7618@cox.net

If your close enough to see the FLASH, you might have just enough time to place your head firmly between your legs and KISS YOUR ASS GOOD-BYE!! Just a suggestion.

If you are still mobile, the stuff you have to watch out for is airborne. so seal off your vents, cover your breathing holes, and wash soonest after. (and of course the vehicle will be radioactive at least, after driving through it. so ditch that soonest too.

also, eat organic fruit seeds, especially apricot, to cure the cancer.

Chris

If you're near Baja California you won't drive past L.A. on your way south.

If you are west or north of L.A. then I'd drive west then north an not stop until about San Simeon

Dear Manufacturing Jedi,

Your concerns need to be

Will the place cool down in 7-days to walk out?

Will the debris on road allow you to get out?

Will the Radiation level kill you due to excessive exposure?

Is it safer inside than outside? Do you have more chances to survive inside than outside?

I think, one can survive for few months in a shelter if there is enough water and some food. Water is essential thing to store. One can of water will let you live few months easily. Have some dry fruits stored out there. Your entire light system will be out so have some low power consuming light source to feel OK. Air will suffocating in closed doors, hence, do not burn anything including cigarette and don't try to heat up anything.

Perhaps in 30 days some clean up operation will start and removal of Radioactive debris may shatter your shelter. Here noises and if you have any kind of Wireless Radio or satellite phone then once a while send SOS signals. You may venture out a bit if you already have that Radioactive safety suit but do not contaminate everything if you venture out.

It may also be a good idea to have a Radiation detector alarm in your shelter to see if your area is in safe zone and which way to move out into non-radioactive zone.

Even if you try to run out, the Army may be waiting to kill all those escaping out with Radioactivity. They may also bury everything inside the earth to seal the Radiation. These are perhaps wrong speculations but anything is possible in America.

Good Luck for your nuke adventure.

Someone's been reading Forstchen!

Hello Mitsurati,

Some good points!

GA to you Sir!

Hello LMTK,

Some good stuff!

GA to you sir!

Dear LaMarTEK

Ground will attenuate EMP and shock wave and those living away from key explosion point and inside ground, likely to survive. Nuclear explosion above ground is more dangerous than right on the ground. Will any one know that it is a nuclear attack and also will give time to prepare for it? I think, no. People will live their casual normal life and may have fear only in their mind of such happening and will not take all caution and will not live in holes. However, Government may run offices under ground. There again people will be coming in and going out and in shift changes most of them may be on the road. Equipments may survive but no one there to use them. I am sure, no rescue team will be sent into explosion zone.

Of course rescuers will go into the blast zone. Thats what firemen, EMTs, and doctors do. You are a very selfish man to think that people will not risk their own lives for the chance to save others. Shame on you.

Look at what happened in nuclear explosion in reactors like Chernobyl. It is a basic understanding that rescue team can not enter the nuclear explosion zone unless it is safe for them. Even emergency rescue team is sent only when there are chances for their survival. How much time was lost before any one came to help in Hiroshima. At that time the idea of risk was not properly understood as there was no such experience. Nuclear explosion is far more severe than earth quake disaster.

It is because of the noble work done by the Chernobyl firefighters that I feel that I should respond. There are many unheralded people willing, capable and completely understanding the magnitude of their sacrifice for the greater good of us all. At Chernobyl scores of firefighters poured tons of water onto the uncontrolled pile of uranium, plutonium, trans-uranium elements and burning graphite after that horrific accident. Several consciously choose to put their dosimetry in a radioactively cool area so that their efforts to contain the beast could continue uninterrupted. It did not matter that "safety protocols" proscribed that would likely die from overexposure. They had a job to do to save as many strangers as possible before they expired.

No matter the origin or magnitude of any disaster, there will always be the treasured few who run toward the maelstrom instead of away. All of us would be much worse off without them.

I am deeply saddened that you cannot gasp this.

My only hope for you is that English is not your native language. That because of this you do not understand my point.

Hello redfred,

I fully agree the attempts to extinguish the fire at Chernobyl were heroic! Those people must have known they were not going to survive long afterwards, yet they did the job with all they had at their side. Which, when compared to the size of the fire and building was hopeless, but, they had to try and stop some of the nasty 'rays' escaping the rods on fire.

I know this is not strictly speaking part of the thread, but as this topic has been mentioned before, I thought it only fair to put my 'two penny worth forward.

Dear redfred,

When Chernobyl confined accident became such a difficult thing and many lost life in preventing bigger disaster, imagine the nuclear explosion that can melt Train Rails, Building Iron, buses, cars whatever comes in way of the shock wave. Rescuers simply can not help in such events. Almost entire city will be burning so from where do you get help and how fast?

Have some idea of the intensity of the disaster before thinking about other plans.

Hello Shyam,

how are you?

I fully understand what you say! In fact there is likely to be NO FIRE SERVICE to manage any fires or disasters.

The Chernobyl disaster has been mentioned, and the impossible management of this was tried and the fact it was never going to be successful but they were brave enough to at least try.

That post or posts about Chernobyl has kind of broken away from the main thread. But it never the less has been answered. This thread has or is gradually getting lost from the thread heading.

I think any 'intelligent' person reading this can understand how powerful and destructive the A Bomb was and is. I am not insulting you OK? But as I say there would likely be no fire service left to manage any disaster?

Best wishes Shyam

Dear babybear,

Most of the fire fighters are not educated in radiation damage so they simply look at fire, nothing else. There act is more or less intuitive and not very intelligent type when it come to Radiation exposure. Read in between the lines and you will know more. I am trained and certified Radiological Health Physicist so know the limits.

Some intelligence services will still be present to collect scientific data in real time and those suffering with be experimental data or information generators. Every bit of information that is possible will be logged into systems if at all they remain working under ground or thru satellites. If planned properly by Government in each big city then some people will pop-up and will take sufferers into underground chambers where they will put them under observation and may also provide proper treatment as it may require specialized treatment.

Even if you survive, these may be serious problems

Serious burns on skin - may become a source of serious infection

Vomiting - dehydration - weakness - not enough energy to travel long distances

All fuel sources will burn out including your cars - no way to get transport

Walk if you can to reach nearby help if at all it is available

It may be worth waiting for the rescue team if they arrive even after 7-days

Discuss disaster management among local authorities and see what kind of help they can extend.

In India radiation emergency can empty the entire 30km area in 30 minutes if they have information in advance. It is all planned out and experimented even though there is no history of such accidents in India.

India is gearing up for large scale nuclear disasters and soon we will have more information from AERB or DAE.

If nuclear war now initiated by any capable large country then it may be a carpet bombing leaving no chance for any kind of facility left over in entire small country. Only Big countries may have some chance to survive and see sufferings.

I wish this should never happen in the world again but I am not a God to prevent it.

If anything like Neutron bomb or Fusion bomb is used then there is no information yet of what will be the real show of horror.

Hello Shyam,

I thank you for your reply post.

Yes I have to except the fire fighters were acting on 'instinct' really! A good point.

This is a subject I am very interested in and know basic stuff about the Eliments but, perhaps fortunately, could not build a bomb! Not a sick joke, just explaining my knowledge boundaries in this case.

Take care my friend.

Dear babybear,

I think small nuclear devices may become a war realty and that means limited volume of Toxicity and limited but sufficient harm may result in the small zone (less than 9-16km) of interest. With knowledge of how to optimize results, th zone will see lot more condensed energy shock wave than what was the yield in first experiment.

What could be key area of interest to the military? People sure are not the target of the military action and only terrorists or a real mad politician can plan such thing. Perhaps, key business places, large bridges, large transport systems and airways and military bases may be the target rather than civilian places of large population. More damage will be done by not killing the people but letting them live with less sufferings and more fear.

Who is going to do it and for what aim to achieve matters a lot.

I think people need not fear and they should only learn to survive, whatever may come. I appreciate that you are discussing all this.

Death is statistical and by chance for nuclear explosions so many hay have chance to live where others may go easily. Look for your chance and improve it. Low in weight, has greater chance to survive.

Hello Shyam,

How are you?

Look for your chance and improve it. Low in weight, has greater chance to survive.

=

I think perhaps I should start loosing some weight now, if I am to survive! ;=)

Take care my friend!

Damn Babybear, Do you make bombs?

Nuclear Reactors?

One of the most interesting Brochures that I ever had was from the Oakley Thermonuclear Dive Team. What a job!

"What do you do?"

"I dive into the rod pools of Nuclear Rectors, and look around."

I've only known one Uranium miner. I think his mining career was limited to 6 months.

As far as current threats I figure North Korea up there, and whatever they've got most likely.

It is not out of the question for mankind to take Nuclear Weapons out of all public and private arsenals, though it would require some covert killings far as I can tell.

Certainly there have been some past events of assassinations on these fronts.

One that surfaced had to do with a rail gun propulsion system.

Overall I do view Weapons of Mass Destruction as an undue, and unethical threat to my class. It is the only area where I feel it is ethical overall that some individuals only spies may know of, be killed.

P.S. The only precedent for general outlawing of a new and powerful weapon that I know of, is the Japanese prohibition of firearms from the 13 hundreds to the 15 hundreds, when their guns were the best made earliest.

Hello Transcendian,

Hope you are fine?

Damn you have found my secret. I asked all I told to hold their tongues but, somebody has let go!

You are right, I design Nuclear Reactors. Well strictly speaking a part of them, actually I design the door handles. You cannot imagine how exciting it is, really! Mind you I do have the odd bit of 'pitchblende' around and, I have just realised some 16 C yellow glass which also contains Uranium.

I am not 'in charge' of the 'sharp end' of the bomb! I really wonder what the human race is doing poisoning itself with this horrible Uranium and plutonium which have half years of almost five million years? And that ref' is to Uranium BTW!.............But someone has to make the door handles, don't they?

In all seriousness, it is very worrying and frightening that a Russian spy can be killed using this stuff rather than a bullet!

Sod the rest of the Town/City/Country, just kill him, you know?

I didn't see the use of depleted uranium in your list, when it comes to making ordinance... can you tell me why it is used (ie; more explosive, poisonous shrapnel, or what?, and what the long term effects are?) GA btw, on that encyclopedia..

tx Chris

Depleted uranium is used for projectiles because it is heavy; a DU slug will punch right through tank armor.

thanks.

thanks. GA.

Please design a small nuclear reactor for my car!

Chris

Hello chrisg288,

You have not tried 'negotiating' much have you? LOL.

I am pleased with your request but am just too busy designing one for F! at the moment!

Keeping the power in the tire so it gets through to the road means having a 3 metre tire, as a lot of rubber burns off in the corners. I am sure you understand. I think the 'lap' record will have to become a 'straight' record, as there is too much power to barely keep the car on the tarmac, you know?

So unless you can wait for ten years, you are out of luck.

Take care in the mean time in your unbelievably slow motor, OK?

Hi all and sorry in particular to chrisg288,

It should have read......... designing one for "F1" (Formula one)

at the moment

NOT

designing one for (F!)

at the moment.

Sorry once again.

Hello babybear:

Not boring at all very informative and I think it adds to the thread.

It is unthinkable that they used depleted uranium to make projectiles out of, even ignoring any of the moral implications of shooting people with poisonous material.

I find morally outrageous that we would squander the resources of future generations in this way. As you mentioned a breeder reactors that convert uranium into plutonium , produces far more fuel than they use. Relying on developing technologies to provide energy that may or may not someday become practical is equivalent to spending all the money you have in the bank.

In this case we're spending future future generations energy inheritance. The use of depleted uranium weapons leaves a toxic material on battlefields for future generations to clean up. Tons are deposited into the ocean and may never be recoverable.

In my opinion this is far worse than our energy gluttony, we are intentionally destroying a valuable energy resource. Depleted uranium today is virtually worthless, in the future it may become the most valuable element in the world.

Since you brought up depleted uranium, there are a few common misconceptions about depleted uranium that I'd like to address about this disgusting material. Naturally occurring Uranium itself is not very radioactive. But if enough Uranium 235 and 234 is brought together in close proximity a sub-critical reaction can start to happen. The trans-fission byproducts and the fission process itself are highly radioactive. Uranium 235 and 234 are about 0.7% of any uranium ore, 99.3% of Uranium is isotope 238 which does not readily fission. In making enriched, fissionable uranium fuel the concentrations of U234 & U235 is increased by removing the U238, thus making depleted and enriched Uranium. This makes depleted Uranium less radioactive than natural Uranium.

But all Uranium and the chemical compounds it forms are highly poisonous. While any weapon is intended to kill its target, depleted Uranium particularly if a water soluble salt with Uranium gets formed can poison the land itself. Ironically, if depleted Uranium was more radioactive it would be easy to locate for removal.

Hello again redfred,

Where I remembered to say so, I did use the phrase "poisonous" rather than anything else. The reason I can argue about this is because I have taken the time to find out what the phrase DU (Depleted Uranium) and all the other different types or Uranium and there Isotopes is, what they do and there "half-life" etc.

I am not blowing 'hot air'. Hope that does not sound too big headed, because I am not sure what goes on at the 'nuclear' atomic level. I was pretty surprised to see that although there is a tiny amount, 0.3 % or something, compared to other elements? (Thats taken from memory, so do not 'hold' me to that)

I fully understand the subject, but, ask me to discuss it off the top of my head and I would be lost, because there is so many variants and Isotopes I just cannot recall them all..................I am not saying I know more than the 'next man', but I do understand perhaps more than most find 'interesting'! It is hardly a 'coffee table' subject is it, LOL ;=) :=) ! I find it fascinating, but I am perhaps in the minority.

Having said that I will say bye for now, OK? Many thanks for the reply post again, OK?

Hello again BB,

You did accurately say "poisonous" in your lengthy superb answer. (If you didn't have 4 GAs by the time I had read all of it, I would have gladly given you one myself.) I just wished to emphasize that the lethal problem of trace amounts of this metal, it's oxides and water soluble salts comes from how highly toxic they all are, not the minuscule radiation level.

Hello redfred,

Point well made my friend! And I appreciate your remark about the GA's. Thanks.

Of course the 'salts' are still in the 'ground-water' and soil no matter how heavy this Element is.

Hello YWR,

Hope you are well?

I thank you so much for the post.

I think some people on CR4 think I am not a serious advocate for things in general. That may be the case but, there is times when I can make a good argument and others when I can't. However, on this subject I know what should be happening and I know it is not. ............. For instance, how many US or UK (if they were also using 'DU') were told of this when they joined the armed forces? I would not mind betting, NOT MANY! =

The us and UK Governments seem to forget that most other Countries 'follow our lead', in manufacturing this poisonous ordnance, and how many people were killed or will die a terrible death in the US where I presume the 'DU' ordnance is made? Apart from the people killed in battle and the millions of rounds of ordnance 'fired in anger', and also apart from the ordnance fired in the US barracks, like we see sometimes when they 'play' and fire at old cars tin cans etc in the make-shift barracks in Iraq.

Army vehicle are going back to the US and all other Countries 'contaminated', and those vehicles will be driving around the States and other Countries in the future with 'no visible sign' of contamination at all, but it well be there. Soldiers loading weapons have uranium on there hands. That in turn will be on cloths, cases, furniture, cares and any vehicles driven by anyone in the armed forces whom have been using this 'DU' whether in a 'WAR zone' or in the US, where they will be loading aircraft and gun magazines with it...............................

NONE of that is mentioned.

In another 20/30 years when a whole lot more people who 'have nothing to do with WAR' will be dying, IE: the people who make the ordnance, and pack it etc, and the arrogant stupid decision that this would help win a war will come to be realised!

That is my rant over for the day!

I will leave it at that.

Thanks once again for your ref' to me. I appreciate it.

As far as I know, DU is used in armor piercing projectiles because it is cheaper than tungsten.

Although W is also toxic, it isn't radioactive.

It seems the main reason for running the extra risks involved in using DU comes back to the almighty dollar.

Wow what a cheerful thread!!! I'd say the best thing is to dive into the explotion and die as quickly as possible, you're pretty much doomed anyways...

It's the Zombies that will appear after several weeks that you have to be worried about! Food and water are easy to take of...but Zombies...darn hard to control.

I'll give a GA to sailing southwest though.

Not having seen any posts yet that said they have touched the black obelisk at ground zero in Nagasaki (I have) or toured the museum there (a one room second floor exhibit as I recall) with the pictures of the destruction and survivors and as I recall about 230,000 dead. I was there in 1970.

There is also a paperback book I once had titled "Hiroshima" with the picture of the man and his donkey, there image burned into the stone surface of a bridge they were crossing at the moment of the nuclear explosion in Hiroshima.

We cannot fix the past, but we can learn from it.

You can choose knowing you can never help everyone and probably not even your entire family. Maybe you can help yourself, maybe if you leave now for a safer likely upwind location.

There are already described multiple calamitys (nuclear, biological or conventional bombs, earthquakes, ...) that can disrupt the public services (electricity, water, sewerage, ...) that will after a few days without relief in sight result in public confusion at least.

Hi Jedi,

When I was in the Army I was told if I saw the flash of an A-bomb to jump in a foxhole immediately and cover myself with a blanket. If you don't have a foxhole, then bend over, grab your ankles, stick your head between your legs, and kiss your Butt good-by!

You will find this very interesting:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/537242/posts

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/23555/Do-you-have-a-survival-pack-already-and-if-not-what-would-be-in-it

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/23446/What-would-be-your-best-choice-for-a-survival-weapon

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/31698

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/37813/The-Most-Important-Science-Technology-Books-That-Made-a-Difference

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/3128/The-Third-Book

http://www.llbean.com/outdoorsOnline/outdoorSports/camping/gear/winter.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_hole

Hi wire,

Hope you are well?

Some interesting stuff my friend!

GA to you!

Hi wire,

Hope you are well?

GA to you Sir for your list of very useful items!

I would suggest reading "The Road" by Cormac McCarthy. I finished it in about 6 hours. Once you have read that you will either be so depressed that you will kill yourself or you will decide that it is not worth worrying about death. Instead you can focus on living a happy life.

I would also recommend "The Radioactive Boyscout" by Ken Silverstein.

Cormac McCarthy is particularly depressing. He is a well spoken nihilist, as opposed to Mr. McMurtry, who though just as realistic, does have a philosophy closer to normal, and cheerier.

Even Faulkner is cheerier than McCarthy.

Frankly I was concerned that Mr. McCain thought so well of For Whom the Bell Tolls.

Point of For Whom the Bell Tolls, is that if you are damaged, go ahead and die.

I do not recommend extreme beliefs, and take depressive philosophies with a grain of salt.

As an example out of literature, you might read John OBrien's Leaving Las Vegas, to understand that even in the best of times, someone will get depressed and suicidal.

Further, War and Peace by Tolstoy has a few lessons about why not to get all patriotic as Mr. Heller grappled with in Catch 22.

Hi Jedi,

You may be interested in a recent article on a drug that may provide resistance to radiation see below.

I suggest that you stock up on this when/if it becomes available.

Exclusive: Dramatic discovery by Jewish-American scientists could change world; anti-radiation medication proves effective, safe in tests. Further experiments to be fast tracked, FDA approval possible within 1-2 years

Ronen Bergman

Medication that can protect humans against nuclear radiation has been developed by Jewish-American scientists in cooperation with a researcher and investors from Israel. The full story behind the dramatic discovery will be published in Yedioth Ahronoth's weekend edition.


The ground-breaking medication, developed by Professor Andrei Gudkov – Chief Scientific Officer at Cleveland BioLabs - may have far-reaching implications on the balance of power in the world, as states capable of providing their citizens with protection against radiation will enjoy a significant strategic advantage vis-à-vis their rivals.


For Israel, the discovery marks a particularly dramatic development that could deeply affect the main issue on the defense establishment's agenda: Protection against a nuclear attack by Iran or against "dirty bomb" attacks by terror groups.


Gudkov's discovery may also have immense implications for cancer patients by enabling doctors to better protect patients against radiation. Should the new medication enable cancer patients to be treated with more powerful radiation, our ability to fight the disease could greatly improve.


Dramatic test results

The process that led up to the medical innovation dates back to 2003, when Professor Gudkov came up with the idea of using protein produced in bacteria found in the intestine to protect cells from radiation.


Gudkov recounted an experiment he held with two groups of mice.


"We exposed both groups to lethal radioactive radiation," he said. "All the mice in the control group died within a short period of time. A few days later, when I approached the cage with the mice that received the protein, I could see that they're ok, that they're alive. They survived. It's hard to describe the joy all of us felt. We realized that finally, after so many years and so many experiments and frustrations, we made a breakthrough that may save the lives of millions."


Prof. Gudkov published the findings of the protein experiment in Science, the world's leading scientific journal; however, the discovery of the medication was kept secret until now, while Gudkov and his associated waited for the results of two series of critical tests examining the medication's effectiveness and safety.


The first series of tests included experiments on more than 650 monkeys. Each test featured two groups of monkeys exposed to radiation, but only one group was given the medication. The radiation dosage was equal to the highest dosage sustained by humans as result of the Chernobyl mishap.


The experiment's results were dramatic: 70% of the monkeys that did not receive the cure died, while the ones that survived suffered from the various maladies associated with lethal nuclear radiation. However, the group that did receive the anti-radiation shot saw almost all monkeys survive, most of them without any side-effects. The tests showed that injecting the medication between 24 hours before the exposure to 72 hours following the exposure achieves similar results.


Another test on humans, who were given the drug without being exposed to radiation, showed that the medication does not have side-effects and is safe. Prof. Gudkov's company now needs to expand the safety tests, a process expected to be completed by mid-2010 via a shortened test track approved for bio-defense drugs. Should experiments continue at the current rate, the medication is estimated to be approved for use by the FDA within a year or two.


'Stable, safe, and easy to inject'


The company's subcontractor in Europe is already prepared to embark on mass production. Meanwhile, emergency regulations in Israel allow the government to purchase drugs on short notice, even if they are still in the process of being approved. Notably, the medication in question is not a vaccine, but rather, a preventative drug administered via one or several shots.

The medication works by suppressing the "suicide mechanism" of cells hit by radiation, while enabling them to recover from the radiation-induced damages that prompted them to activate the suicide mechanism in the first place.


Prof. Gudkov heads a group of Jewish-American scientists and has cooperated with an Israeli researcher and Israeli investors. A large part of the revolutionary medication's development process was funded by the US Defense and Health departments, which thus far earmarked $40 million to the project. About two weeks ago, the US Defense Department announced that in light of the successful tests, it will continue to fund the project.


The Israeli scientist involved in the research, Dr. Elena Feinstein, made Aliyah to Israel in 1985 and for many years served as a cancer researcher at the Weizmann Institute of Science. Dr. Feinstein met Prof. Gudkov while they worked together in Moscow and was among the founders of the company, serving as its deputy director for some time.


Today, Feinstein works for an Israel company engaged in cancer research and continues to cooperate with Gudkov. Referring to the innovative medication, she says: "Both its effectiveness and safety had been proven. It is stable, safe, and easy to inject."


Both Feinstein and Gudkov stress that the innovative drug does not provide 100% protection against radioactive damage. However, should the discovery announced by the scientists meet all the required tests and permits, it may change the 21st Century.

I forget what TV show it was where they were interviewing a civil defence "expert" and they posed to him the question "where would you want to be when the blast goes off?" His immediate respons was "ground zero". His reasoning was that the pandemonium and breakdown of civil order, the sickness and suffering that will surely follow such an event would be worse than the blast itself. A quick "gone in a milisecond" being much prefered to a long slow death or worse.

I think I might just agree with him.

You seem to have got some very good technical advice.

I'm wondering where you might be venturing to after the calamity ? Her Majesty's Government don't have any up to date stuff that I know of (at least not for Joe Public), but the content of booklets such as Protect and Survive is still available. There's a document somewhere advising men to wait a suitable period of time, don a long coat and wellington boots, then go forth to see what assistance they can provide in the aftermath of the crisis. It's very similar to this document. As you can see, 2 weeks will be quite adequate a time to wait, although radio broadcasts may advise that you can leave your shelter earlier.

A more realistic portrayal of events might be like the book When the wind Blows (much better than the film) by Raymond Biggs. If I've understood correctly, painting the car windows white should enable you to pop out a little sooner than otherwise.

Even if the radiation might not be the same (I've no idea), a visit to Chernobyl would probably afford some sort of taste as to what life might be like after a nuke.

"painting the car windows white should enable you to pop out a little sooner than otherwise"

I presume you are referring to the lead content of white paint? Wouldn't have much of an effect. Lead shielding works well for X-radiation (as well as alpha and gamma) when it is thick enough, but can increase the energy of beta radiation. Besides, the US has banned the use of lead in paint.

I'm surprised nobody has suggested finding a radioactive spider and getting bitten. Then you become a web-slinging superhero and you don't have to drive anywhere. It's pretty obvious when you think about it.

Nope, plain old emulsion. HM Government said nothing about lead content. Gloss might be better, but you'll need that when you put the doors up again (make-shift shelter advice - you unscrew them and lean 'em against a wall). Pots, pans, railings, lead from paint - it'll all be needed for the war effort.

Now that I've reread your question, driving through the blast zone itself maybe your safest path. For everything that was dispersible was surely, literally blown away by the initial blast. I certainly wouldn't linger there but your vehicle, clothing, and lungs will not be picking up much if any fallout in the blast radius. That is if your vehicle works after the EMP from the blast. Determining which way the fallout cloud drifted would be problematic without equipment.

Out of general interest to the topic, Tsutomu Yamaguchi is quite a remarkable individual. Most Hibakusha were not so 'lucky'

Hello Kris,

Hope you are well?

That story is hardly believable. The only two bombs dropped of that kind and he was in both Cities? Amazing, and he is 93 and at last had some recognition.

I am still reading his story which I have copied as well as any links, to my email.

Hi bb,

all good here, and I hope things are good with you too.

It's certainly an astonishing story. Most of the stuff I've found on the internet repeats the same detail. I'm sure there must be more information out there but I haven't come across it yet.

Hi Kris,

Cheers my friend.

Not surprisingly help is on the way, in the form of a drug.

Possible cure for radiation sickness discovered?

http://www.gizmag.com/radiation-sickness-cure/12303/

Hey the world may end but someone has to make a buck right.

Seriously thou an interesting development.

Interesting stuff if its real. I do wonder though about the comment that cancer patients could then take higher dose radiation treatments. If the drug prevents healthy cells from going into suicide mode from radiation damage, why would a cancer cell in the same blood supply not be identically helped to survive radiation. Besides isn't one of the traits of a cancer cell is that they refuse to die.