CR4 Standard for Abbreviation Usage?

And just who are we recognising?

(why do you think you have a say in what we do here when you won't even register?)

Mike

What is it with you guys and "guests"? What divine logic brought you to the conclusion (a) that his particular guest (the OP) is not registered and (b) that he should not have an opinion? Maybe they are not logged on, maybe they do not want to log on, of what import is it. Question is, do they have a reasonable question, statement or opinion to offer.

By the way I am a long time member - just posting as guest to make the point. (I am not the OP).

1) How do you know that I'm a guy (I am)?

2) No Divine Logic, just common sense.

3) (a) Usually, registered members that cannot log on for whatever reason, will give their member name.

4) (b) An opinion is fine. Suggesting we change the way we do things here without knowing where the suggestions are coming from is irresponsible.

With this kind of BS, I take it you side with the Left, who can't abide with anyone speaking their mind.

In no way did the person who pose the question demand that things change. Like many engineers, he merely questioned the way things are and wondered if it may be better if things were different.

Guests are people too. Treating them like they are below you without knowing them and still judging them is exhibiting poor character. It was an intelligible question that could lead to a very promising discussion on how to improve communication between members (members being ANYONE who is on the site, registered or not).

I don't know where your resentment for people behind the guest name originated, but it is unfortunate that it exists. There are plenty of intelligible people that I would like to learn from not registered to this site. It is about learning here, not forming cliques.

I think a lot of the frustration about "Guests" occurs when we have two or three posting about the same time. It becomes really hard to tell who is who. For me, it's sort of like the "caller ID blocked" message on the phone - I rarely answer.

You can't blame them for that though, the system is flawed. A lot of guests (not a huge number) I have seen have some kind of 'signature' that is unique.

I'm not blaming anybody, just pointing out why some of us don't like talking to Guests. BTW, this post just came in about welding:

"

Can anyone give me any SAMPLE WPS for Aluminium pipe Welding by GTAW process ?"

If you know anything about welding, you know the abbreviations; if you don't know anything, having the words spelled out wouldn't help a lick.

When I said 'you' I wasn't particularly trying to take a hit at you personally. Sorry for the confusion. I am just saying that people that hate guests shouldn't hate them because of the confusion.

I understand the ones that are disgusted by people who write questions like you posted. But I think that people just have to deal with it and not be so harsh when a guest, who knows what he/she is talking about, leaves an intelligible message. They or their post gets picked apart and are probably not too inclined to join an environment like this.

Amen Jaxy -

Many regular users choose to treat "guests" more like "intruders." This puts a negative light on all of us.

Though I wouldn't specifically say that TVP45 does, he was merely pointing out that in more complex situations the lack of unique identifiers can be frustrating.

Just curious: What does 'OP' stand for?

Original Poster

Original Gangsta?- Cool! I thought it might stand for Offensive Participant - Thanx - Loupy

Very nice. Original Gansta (with the optional "a" ending) it is.

Thank you

Not everyone who comes here is an engineer. Not everyone who comes here has a firm command of the accepted language. Not everyone who comes here follows the accepted conventions of "engineers". Go with it.

Me, personally, I'd do away with acronyms ASAP!

Been there, done that, I posted on the self same topic many moons ago when I was a mere kitten in this esteemed forum.

Del

hi,

it is simply because word processing software cannot force the user to spell out the acronym the first time it is used. users are free to use applications the way they want to.

the tools, however, are available for him to use. but if he chooses to ignore the squiggly lines or the underlines in his post, or never uses the spell checker, no one can force the poster to use "standard engineering practice for all writing everywhere."

there's been so many posts in CR4 that have been misunderstood by responders, and have led to arguments and heated discussions. IMO, such clashes would have been avoided if we would "seek to understand first, rather than be understood".

cheers!

"seek to understand first, rather than be understood".

Surely the purpose of writing is to be understood, the writers should at least make suome attempt at lucidity.
We get a lot of three word posts.
E.G. 'Steel plate finishes' and suchlike which are neither statement nor questions.
BWFT I think...
Del

"Surely the purpose of writing is to be understood, the writers should at least make suome attempt at lucidity."

which is precisely why the reader (that's us) should seek to understand first what was written by OP and then reply, taking the effort to be lucid - and thus, earn the GA.

Abbreviations need to be banned ASAP.

"Not everyone who comes here is an engineer."

While everyone who comes here is not an engineer, the motto under the website name says "The Engineer's Place for news and Discussion", so maybe it is the responsibility of the user to become familiar with the tone and language of the forums they participate in, as is the responsibility of the blogger/writter to ensure there message is presented in a manner in which they would like it to be perceived and understood. I agree just go with it . In P2P discussion it all works out eventually one way or another!

Well, somebody has to be the jerk, so...

If a poster asks about pipe threads, I will use NPT and dia. without explanation. If those are not familiar to the poster, he should perhaps not be asking. I know there are some strange abbreviations in the world, but this ain't grade school.

A good example, as NPT isn't very common in Uk!!!
The clue is in the name N=national...
BSP... B=British...
Some of us are more parochial than others...oooooooh.
Del

(CAT=Cat's arse Thread)

Del and Others.

As usual there are 2 and maybe 3 sides to every story. I agree that sometimes people do need to spell out an acronym the first time. If they are not asking a question properly, we are all lost. If the question is presented in a logical and clear manner we can normally guess at what they are referring to and how to answer them. Just as a example check the following link for BSP.

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/bsp

And yes this is a pretty good acronym checker. But not for everything.

Couldn't have stated that more eloquently, TVP45. There's a fine line between spelling things out to be helpful and talking down to people by assuming that they don't know what a common acronym stands for. That line is even harder to see without the benefit of body language.

Besides, if the reader is wise enough to read a post and act based on a paragraph or two of text, then surely the reader can spare 5 minutes to Google 'NPT,' find out what the acronym stands for, and - if desired - learn the origin and history of the term from Wikipedia! If not, then they could always simply ask you to spell it out in a follow-up post.

I went to an "Acronym" finder web site (http://www.acronymfinder.com) and looked up "NPT". I got 50 responses! So which is the correct one?

Which one has to do with pipe? Del makes a good point about the difference in country standards. Because I work(ed) with pipe, I recognize BPT, but not everybody will. But, seriously, I don't want to spell out Unified National Coarse. I can see spelling out something like AAR (American Association of Railroads), but not NIST.

NIST ??

National Institute of Spring Technology ? Based in Sheffield ?

I find the use of CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) on electronics threads slightly disorientating, since in my industry it means Continuously Regenerating Trap - and is a Registered Trade Mark, worthy of a non-reflecting ®.

Explaining acronyms and abbreviations is context driven. I wouldn't expect anyone on a TV/monitor thread to explain CRT, and I wouldn't explain it on an expert emissions thread...but I would on a general thread where it might not be understood. And whenever talking to my Mother...even if I have explained it before...

Rose,

Good point. We should then, if we are to be clear, also specify the country. Even spelled out words mean different things. Think about football. For some reason, when you guys copied that from us, you mixed it up and applied it to soccer. Ever since, we've been trying to get Dave Beckham to run a quarterback option, with no luck at all.

TVP45

You say "Think about football. For some reason, when you guys copied that from us, you mixed it up and applied it to soccer." Enjoyed the humour, Beckham running a quarterback option would be something to behold, but you are about 400 years out with the "copied" statement.

Soccer is the new word here not football. Soccer comes from Association Football.

Football first recorded in Scotland in the mid 15 Century (etymonline gives 1409).

The word soccer came about mid 19th Century and Football applied to the American version of the game quite late on in the 1880's. Still think you should all play Rugby (Football Union) instead.

Yes. I don't mean to be a DH (no I won't spell that), but if I'm responding to an electrician and I use 3Ø, then that seems reasonable. If I'm helping a high school student with homework, I'd spell it out and even provide a Wiki link. Just depends. But, there's too much of this "Tell me all the formulas I need to calculate suspension bridges." stuff.

CR4 Std. 4 abbr.usg.

I'm just sayin' is all.

It is sometimes difficult for people from different backgrounds and persuasions to clearly express themselves; and the use of acronyms can be confusing. The use of acronyms when used in the correct manner is ok and perfectly acceptable. Knowing when to use an acronym depends on who your audience is that you are trying to reach. Assuming your audience is not familiar with your topic of discussion is a safe direction to follow. The first time an acronym is used, it should be explained by writing it out in full. Subsequent use of the acronym is therefore very acceptable within your OP (original post) and in posts to follow. You may be asking a technical question and may assume that only persons with the same background as yous will respond. Persons of other backgrounds may respond, and they may not be familiar with acronyms normally used by persons of your particular background. You will never know who is on line, so the best way is to spell it out once and use the acronym thereafter. That way, at least, persons will learn new acronyms as they go.

The thing that is most important is common courtesy and that is by EVERYONE. This thread started out badly due to a lack of courtesy. That should not have happened.

Assuming your audience is not familiar with your topic of discussion is a safe direction to follow.

That would be teaching, nothing wrong with that, we have in our forum very good mentors as well as teachers.

You may be asking a technical question and may assume that only persons with the same background as yous will respond.

If you have a problem, you would want people to respond that has experience in that area.

And when read from someone with a different background, who may think they have a different perspective on it, they should ask and clarify.

Otherwise I do not think its advantageous or efficient to put out a legend each time you make a post that would include acronyms or Abbreviations.

I know when my back is up against a wall and require assistance, I look at people who are familiar first, because of the experience.

as far as courtesy, that is nice when it happens, but one has to realize CR4 is not our lives, we have jobs, things may be blunt and impersonable but it is to the point.

phoenix911

I will continue to submit my posts with the abbreviation spelled out one time. I have to assume there are some abbreviations that are universally used and I will use them without explanation. The main point is; if you want to communicate effectively, you need to make it as clear as possible for the majority. This is the mark of a good tech writer.

ronseto.

I will continue to submit my posts with the abbreviation spelled out one time.

thats your choice, good for you..

The main point is; if you want to communicate effectively, you need to make it as clear as possible for the majority. This is the mark of a good tech writer.

I agree 100%, if its a tech manual. I just looking at this at a different perspective, where the person ability from the related experience is the information I would seek.

A tech manual yes in a way, a interpersonal one between colleagues in the same industry. Its a tool to get information, that is shared for teaching, when a question is raised answer it. You would be surprised what one has forgotten from one who is experienced and be revisiting it by actually answering it.

And if a reader from outside this realm feels he may have a solution, then I would go into detail. Is there a possibility of losing potential info. yes, but the statistics would be too low that it is acceptable....for me.

phoenix911

Just curiouser; Why, in the header question of the comments, is there a gap between the CR and the 4 (Re: 'CR 4') in the first half of the discussion down to #10 and then the header question closes the gap and becomes Re: 'CR4' from #11 on to the end. (which happens to be me, for the moment)?

But how did we migrate of all the places to "Commercial place"

The thing is getting curiouser and curiouser .

First the space moves in head_er then the header moves to commercial then the commercial moves to ... (next soap opera? TRP low?)

OK, OK. I was wrong. I wasn't thinking of the many folks we have from India and England who might not be familiar with US terminology. In the future, I will try (and probably forget) to spell out any abbreviation or acronymn that I think might be unfamiliar. I reserve the right to use those abbreviations defined in Machinery's Handbook.

OK?, what does OK that stand for?/.....and US what does that stand for, is that a company? Where's it located? please elaborate......oh, oh this day isn't starting out too well.

oh   /oʊ/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [oh] Show IPA interjection, noun, plural oh's, ohs, verb

Use oh in a Sentence –interjection

–noun

–verb (used without object)

Double oh, oh

definition;

1) holy $hi#

phoenix911

OK is a word! Don't yinz play Scrabble? Scrabble doesn't allow abbreviations and OK is allowed. Of course, this might only be the case in Missouri Midnight, low letter wild, q kills the game, Scrabble, but everybody is entitled to their own rules.

10-4,QT, FUBR,RIP, ASAP, roger, over and out,, under done,

some multilated lines from the movie Airplane.

Even if we were all engineers, it is the same as if we were all "required" to use proper punctuation, in all cases.

Hey, some of us are grown ups!

I myself don't need police around to tell me how to act.

Frankly I probably hang out on CR4 since the majority of writers don't seem to need to have good manners explained to them.

Possibly CR4 might consider a "Suggestion Box" for the Got Somthing to Say? - or CR4 Feedback Categories.

Sometimes we get set up by formats.

Veterans Suggest: It is suggested that the poster use all words in the body of a post, with following Acronymn usage in leiu of the full out name acceptable standard practice more workable across national boundaries than Acronymns only.

Further I suggest that posters do attempt to write as if they knew at least how to do that properly, for it is unlikely anyone with a job to offer will ever offer it to those who can't write well.

"Guests" are especially welcome when they tell us secrets.

Ben Franklin justified being anonymous on occassion since sometimes what you know is dangerous to know and speak of.

Many a Scientist or Writer, now reverered has been tortured or murdered.

:the thread drifted off topic, and so have I...

off topic.......lets say it drifted........point well taken.

phoenix911

sorry my time run out to put a addendum to post #68

off topic.......lets say it drifted........point well taken.

as far as;

Ben Franklin justified being anonymous on occassion occasion since sometimes what you know is dangerous to know and speak of.

Many a Scientist or Writer, now reverered revered has been tortured or murdered.

As far as posting anonymous that point is taken..... fortunately on this site I do not believe we have to worry about torture or death .....well if badgering is torture.....maybe but you can always walk away.

It is the guest, that is registered (and pulling a Ben Franklin routine) that looks to get into a tangle, that I am disappointed in.

And I will stand toe to toe when I feel he is a registered to the site, but pulling this routine.

Enough I do not want this going the way of guest beating.....for that is on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

better,

phoenix911

I was born and raised an American. My language is English and I have tried very hard to maintain the English language in my speech and in my writing. Sure I sometimes speak in the local dialects when conversing with my peers, but I always try to speak and write using good English. I know English is a difficult language for non-English speaking people and even for native Englishmen on their own doorstep.

If I feel an abbreviation may not be understood, I will spell it out. After all, how much longer can it take.

Here is a story that happened to me about 30 years ago.

I had just started at a new job and was asked to have a sit-down chat with an also new chief engineer at a naval architects. He wanted to know what my qualifications were so I went on and on describing all my different projects. During all this discourse, I started out using the acronym, "RAS" that was common among naval architects. After about 3 minutes, I came to an end. He looked at me and said; What's an RAS? (RAS means "Replenishment at Sea"). We all had a good laugh and came away with mutual respect.