Photo Challenge: What's This Machine?

Picture on the right seems to show three governer weights. So looks as if there is some sort of speed control. Input shaft I can see, but is there an output shaft?

Could it have anything to do with a timing mechanism - clock?

I think the shaft you see is for the output. I think the "input shaft" is the "handle" - I can't figure it out, but it looks like you may push up and down or rotate the handle, which is attached to the spiral gear and starts things in rotation.

And good call on the governor weights.

Looking/thinking a little more - it would seem that this may be a high speed - low torque gear box that takes a twist of the wrist to get the output shaft spinning with, perhaps, a torque converter in the middle.

It looks like you spin the handle, which goes the the "torque converter" and then through two sets of speed increasing gears to the output shaft. And then there is the governor, what/how does it trip?

Guest #2

From what the first two posters have said, I'm wondering if it is a hand-operated drive mechanism for a submersible pump. That would account for a long handle that move up and down.

I'm not saying that is what it is. I'm just speculatin'.

Low speed output to a churn?

I think the shaft is high speed (you can see two sets of large input to small output gears)

Guest #2

Agree - could there be a spring inside that there drum and the other shaft be a winding mechanism?

this is a governed spring drive from an old gram-a-phone.

The ones in pre-metric days were called ounce-a-phones

Ounce-a-phone, good one.

My money (and a GA) are on your idea!!!

I think its a clockwork mechanism too.....

Love the pre-metric version.

I like the gramophone idea but find the orientation of the winder handle and the output shaft don't fully support that idea as far as I can see.

I do not believe that it is a clock mechanism (though I can imagine fitting the hour and minute hands on the output shaft) as a governed drive is not accurate enough and there is no sign of fusee, verge and foliot, pendulum or any kind of escapement required for accurate speed control.

Could it be the governed speed mechanism for a music(al) box - plate or cylinder type. Other things that come to mind are barrel organs and other mechanical music machines.

Guest 1.

Detective skills are needed here.{p] OK, of these sets of people what did they make other than cheese?

OKay, if they could make cheese they had some goats and cows around, likely.

Are there associated products possible to make from the dead cows skins that may match evidence of the mechanism?

Where was this mechanism found, and what was near it? - Is that unknown?

My first thought was that it may have squashed leather in some part of the process of making a strap.

Then I wondered if it may have aided somehow in the making of leather shoelaces.

So far I don't have much in the way of useful clues.

Where exactly was this found? I mean as much as possible about where down to details of whom owned the property, and what was it they did.

Is there any part of it that a Swiss history museum could identify as common to the period?

Has it ever been taken apart and put back together?

Has it ever been tested for residues?

Has it ever been X rayed?

P.S. I do find it hard to believe that not one thing used to make this mechanism cannot be traced back to some factory when looking at the gears employed. It would seem that even the type of metals employed would provide some clues needed. There had to be a motive to make this thing, and that is likely to make some money from using it to process some material.

"Has it ever been taken apart and put back together?"

oh, don't just the ever-exploring engineers' hands itch to open up the thing?

It's the drive mechanism for a large ice cream maker.

It looks like it could be used for making jewelery, like in cold pressing. Looks like it could handle a bit, Ky.

It is definitely A wind up clock mechanism and I suspect for a rather large one. If you look clearly at the base of the handle you will notice a pawl to prevent reverse spin. The shaft continues through the body to the helical gear to wind the main spring. The second drum I would expect may contain another set of gears. There are two clearly visible shafts on the side of the drums which I'm sure the upper is the main shaft for the governing mechanism (with the transverse shaft and screw), but when you examine the photos closely on the output shaft you will notice that 1) there are two drive gears 2) From the end of the out put shaft you can just make out that there is a sleeve bearing creating a shaft within a shaft. Each turning at a different speed. Wound by a spring. Must be a clock.

Now, measuring the length of the handle (from where the paint stops to the out put shafts) (*2) will give you the bezel diameter. Making another guess I would have to say that this was probably A public clock (town square traffic intersection or possibly even an old train station) that could be wound by a town or city worker and was either replaced with an electrical unit or omitted completely. A nice find indeed. the condition looks to be good so it may have been an indoor unit. Are there no tags or stampings on it anywhere? It seems odd that any company would not leave an identifying mark serial # or some thing. Definitely I would not toss it out. I would put serious effort into finding out the who, what, where, when, etc... And then consider restoration or sale. You never know what history it may hold until you do the research.

Have a good day!

Just a few thoughts on the drive.

1. The machine is shown with the winder vertical, must be right as the governor will only work in this position.

2. Cannot be clock drive as not accurate enough but could be for driving a turntable like a beacon, maybe a lighthouse or similar.

If it was wound up how long would it take to run down ?

I'd prefer it to be a Gramaphone mechanism, the end of the shaft even looks like it fits the centre of an old 78... The handle however doesn't look as though it's original and somehow seems out of place.

My guess is a clock mechanism:-

"Bloody good study Mr. Holmes!"

Dr Watson

(AKA, L.J.)

rolling mill or printer or tumbler

HAHA Havent seen one of these in a long time....it is indeed a clock mechanism. Since i used to work in a clock and watch shop i have seen many strange brews of clock workings and this is no exception. The shorter shaft is indeed the shaft for the hour and minute hand. the longer shaft with the bent end can move in or out and turn. depending wether the handle was in or out you could adjust the time then either push or pull the handle and wind the clock. pretty smart idea from way back when.

Only someone old enough to have seen one of these would know.

Its a Victrola motor. The shaft is tapered to accept the platten, there is a crank, the drum houses the mainspring.

Definitly a Victrola motor. The vertical shaft is the crank (not fully seen) and the sideways shaft is the vertical pin that the platen sits on with the rounded end so records are not broken.

It is sitting on it's side in the pictures. The crank would come out the right side of the Victrola and the tapered shaft would be vertical.

On a side note, there were electric conversions made for these so one could take out the wind-up motor and convert to an electric (no winding needed!) motor.

Gramophone = record player = Victrola

I should have read your post instead of just looking at the pitchers. I thought this was something you found in an attic or yard sale. I still say that I'm confident it's a clock mechanism . The handle is far to long for it to be from a Victrola but about the right length for a 3' dia clock. You said that this was in a swiss historical village. Where there any photos of those old buildings or public areas with a clock? say about 3' in diameter? It would probably be at a train station, village square, or some other public building.

The worm gear suggests the long rod is the input and the short rod the output. That being determined; the gear ratios suggest a low rpm in and a very high rpm out; Too fast for a clock or a Victrola. It appears the long rod is used to wind a spring inside the drum shaped object. The ball looking thing could be a speed regulator or adjuster. The mounting surface is the side with the three holes. There is a missing cover plate over the worm gear. It really doesn't look all that old. Other than that, I don't know what it is used for.

I am rapidly coming to the belief that some clock manufacturers used the same basic spring mechanism as the Victrola gramophones. Gnomehunter said that he was including five pictures but many people seem to have missed the long distance view:-

The handle looks much more like a clock adjust / winding tool than a gramophone wind up handle.

Also:-

I estimate that the spindle diameter is roughly 1/30th of the width of the motor which would make it about 1/4", which aint a million miles off.

Eh?

Hmm... Ok having had another look it could be a little bigger. Maybe its a reject? hence the rest of it is missing ;)

Hi,

much too much elastic energy to be useful in a Gramophone.

Too high speed to drive the minutes and hours of a big clock. (The speed regulator will need some revs/sec to be functional).

May be a part of a clock: there was a mechanism (and is in working in mechanical examples) to operate the hours sounding mechanism (a hammer against a bell) to indicate the hours, sometimes also any quarter hours. This is requiring considerable energy for some short time, needs a speed regulator, required rewinding in pre-electric times (any 7 days was usual).

RHABE

It reminds me a lot of a hunting tooth limit switch. While I don't see switches I suggest it is possibly a position indicator for a winding engine.

When I get a chance to have a closer look I'll try and identify the parts and confirm or squash my first impression.

I may be off base here but as NOBODY knows exactly what this is, we are MOST unlikely to get the definitive answer.......so I guess we will never know for absolutely sure what it is.....other than its a clockwork mechanism, with speed regulator, for something (of that I am pretty sure).

If you notice, the faceplate holding the output shaft is meant to be bolted against something. This obviously is the Worlds first attempt at "green energy." That's right, your looking at the wind-up motor for a spring-driven car...

I know, because I work on a similar principle.

...and there is stupid me thinking that you can only go up and down!!!!! Almost like Zebedee on the Magic Roundabout!! (Do the ladies like that better?)

250 miles to the gallon (of sweat!)

HiGnomehunter,

I add my contribution on the side of it being a gramophone drive. The evidence suggests the machine has been used for some other purpose after it ceased to be used in the 'phonograph' box. Hence the extended winder shaft. The speed control friction device beneath the governor with the little rubbing pad are all in keeping with this being a 78 RPM drive. The output shaft appears to have a slow taper on it after the rounded tip which is where the platen would locate. What it was subsequently used for is the interesting challenge. There is so little power available from the spring drive and when combined with the short duration of the running time between winds makes it quite a puzzle.

Good antique hunting.

Massey

some kind of rolling mill

It's a 78 rpm old gramophone hand winding mechanism. Please recycle

It is a 78 RPM gramophone drive, its what we used to play records when I was a kid, I've cleaned and oiled a similar one many times. That governor works in any orientation. The winder, with the help of the pawl, loads up the spring while an external brake prevents the platen from turning. The record is put in position and the brake released and the arm moved onto the record. The spring holds more than the three or four minutes of one side, but then the torque reduces so you have to wind up for each record..

It resembles a gramophone mechanism, but it looks too beefy. Also, look at the size of that output shaft! One more thing, gramophones had cranks - what the heck is that long pole doing where a smaller crank should be...

Possibly a spring drive for an old player piano???

Maybe the long pole is there to crank some heavy metal (leverage), Ky.

I'm thinking the long handle is to reach the mechanism inside the piano case.

I'm convinced it's a winding mechanism for a "victrola". See the following link.

www.phonophan.com

Phonograph motor.

I've collected phonographs for over 30 years and I can say without a doubt this is a windup spring motor from a 1920's console style phonograph (gramophone). I don't know what brand. The pictures do not show the motor in the correct orientation. The short spindle should be vertical and is what the turntable would be seated upon. The long shaft is the crank (not fully shown) and is long because it had to go through the side of the console cabinet. Since most winding cranks are removable, this may or may not be the original crank handle.