Previous in Forum: Replacing the Plastic Cover on a Husqvarna 55   Next in Forum: Car acceleration perception by humans
Close
Close
Close
82 comments
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2

Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/10/2009 8:22 AM

I have some old phototgraphs taken in the 1920's that are incedible.You can zoom in with a magnifying glass and read the calendar behind a bartender in the foreground.You can zoom out of a window in the photo and read the fine print in a store window across the street.

A photographer told me it was taken with a pinhole camera (lens less),and that they have infinite focus and the resolution is limited only by the smoothness of the chemicals in the film.

Much is made today about super-high resolution images using expensive lenses, etc.

Why not a high-tech pinhole camera instead?

I am sure there are valid reasons for not using a lens less camera, please explain.

Thanks

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Power-User

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 346
Good Answers: 6
#1

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/10/2009 8:45 AM

ezstreet; it was probity a large film, if you ever saw the difference between 35 mm & a 220 film, you would be surprised. perry

Register to Reply
8
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Indeterminate Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In the bothy, 7 chains down the line from Dodman's Lane level crossing, in the nation formerly known as Great Britain. Kettle's on.
Posts: 32049
Good Answers: 838
#2

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/10/2009 8:53 AM

<...valid reasons for not using a lens-less camera, please explain...>

The amount of light arriving at the sensitised surface, the film, inside a camera varies in proportion to the area of the aperture through which it passes, all other things being equal. So in principle, while a very small pinhole will provide a very broad depth of field, the amount of light reaching the sensitised surface will be very small, meaning that exposure times need to be lengthened in order to record a useful image. Often, that exposure time is not available.

The eye is able to adapt to a wide range of lighting intensities, a feature that is not able to be matched by the performance of chemical image recording media without increasing the thickness of the material, increasing the target crystal grain size and changing its shape, or even both, which pushes up the expense of that material given that most, if not all, are based on silver halide materials which are of high intrinsic value.

For a chemical image recording system, the wider the aperture, the more light arrives at the sensitised surface and makes it easier to record, though without a lens there will be less depth of field and even a blurred image as the aperture size increases. So a lens is needed to focus the light rays onto the sensitised surface.

Modern film materials are very "fast" in comparison to their predecessors; a nineteenth-century tripod camera recording onto large, sensitised glass plates might require several seconds to achieve a correct exposure whereas a modern material in a modern camera would probably require considerably less, with shutter speeds of 1/1000sec being obtainable.

In a chemical-image camera, there is always a compromise between aperture size, shutter speed (i.e. image capture time) and film speed. More modern cameras have switches that can change between, typically, portrait mode (which uses a wide aperture so as to blur the background), sports mode (which uses a fast shutter speed so as to capture the action), back-light mode (which "opens up" typically 2 f-stops to "burn-out" the background to render the shadowed foreground into better exposure), etc..

Those that are used to these automatic features will have less understanding of them than those that use a manual camera, where some thought needs to go into setting the aperture and shutter speed before the image is recorded, thinking time that might not be available to some users, for instance. A competent manual camera operator will achieve as good quality, and sometimes better, images than an inexperienced automatic camera operator, all for the sake of spending a few seconds' thought before capturing the image.

As with all things, a little study, practice and experimentation with various cameras and various film stocks will prove a useful learning exercise and pay dividends. Also, how about a trip to the local photographic club, for instance?

Others can comment upon those modern, new-fangled, digital image capture systems....

__________________
"Did you get my e-mail?" - "The biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place" - George Bernard Shaw, 1856
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 8)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#16
In reply to #2

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 10:23 AM

HI (::)SLACK... ! !...

Good explanations that resume EZsTREET expectations....But not ALL !!

He needs to experiment...photographic Clubs around is a good idea.They know the TRUE STORY of photography,and almost them,i think,will agree theres a sintomatic passion in (re) assuming old techniques....for PLEASURE ! !...

And that....is ALL YOU can take ! !

Try to combine photography with PAINTING...and you ll understand probably the most interesting reason.....Beyond Chemicals and Papers....even "goodness" lenses......

And....why not going to "CREATIVEVISIONS" and help in solving POVERTY ???????::::

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#35
In reply to #16

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/12/2009 12:52 PM

Hello AlexMotto,

Welcome and thank you for your info' and suggestions.

Of course getting back to basics also means finding a whole raft of new skills and patience! Not least of which is the total blackout conditions necessary to move the imaged plate to the developer and then fixer. Some say it is second nature but I have tried it twice only and found it extremely difficult.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#3

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/10/2009 10:53 AM

Time times intensity equals exposure.

I do sort of doubt that the photographs were made with a pinhole camera, though it is not impossible.

Often photographers will stop down so far as to essentially make the camera a pinhole.

What size are these prints? The detail you mention implies they are contact prints.

The size of the print and edge details may provide clues as to what exact sort of camera and negative combinations produced the images.

It is a drag that so many photographs are not titled, and become mysteries.

Even Drugstore Black and White photographs of the last century were expected to survive for 300 years, as they are made with silver.

Archive prints fixed and washed twice, are expected to live 1000 years.

When labeling or titling photos I have returned to the use of pencils since I have discovered that while Sharpies say they are "permanent", they aren't.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Anonymous Poster
#10
In reply to #3

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 2:33 AM

silly question, perhaps, but have you tried the sharpie on both sides of the film and different colors? Some colors might react with the emulsion. I don't know what they use for black, but if it's lampblack, it would probably dissolve into the emulsion. Some of the metals used in other colors might not. And of course, emulsion is only found on one side of the film. Or do you mean that the sharpie flecks off? There might be pens that use other solvents. Another thing I sometimes do is write on the sticky side of "invisible" tape and when it appears dry, stick that to the object. I don't use film, so I don't have any further suggestions. I have seen pinhole digital cameras for sale.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#17
In reply to #10

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 10:51 AM

Well....DIGITAL Pin-Hole Camera ??.....................

I understand the principles...but something is sub(mis)cathegorized to ME.

Please,give some references to "investigate"....OK ??........

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#36
In reply to #17

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/12/2009 1:07 PM

Hi AM,

Perhaps if the pinhole was 1 mm, it may be called 'metrication' and by connection (distant) to the 'digital', setting the pinhole camera up using fingers!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#43
In reply to #36

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/13/2009 6:33 AM

LOOK BABY.....BEAR !!...

The "metrication" i understand.But what about the "physical interface connection" ??

It not seems so clear to ME.Please,explain.

As a professional photographer im using my 645Pentax with a pro back digital(conversor).But understand,this is not a PINHOLE "integration"...

Whats wrong ??.................(AlexMotto)

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#45
In reply to #43

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/13/2009 10:05 AM

Hi AM,

I wrote in my last post:

Perhaps if the pinhole was 1 mm, it may be called 'metrication' and by connection (distant) to the 'digital', setting the pinhole camera up using fingers!

The 'distant' connection was the link between 'digital' and 'fingers', as in digits? But I like your example better. "physical interface connection"! Reading that some would never guess we were talking about fingers? LOL. ROFL!

It is at times like this I would love to pick my phone up and talk to you, as it is a damn site easier that having to think about why I wrote something and then have to get myself 'out of stook'!

I have an old Pentax SLR. Great camera actually, but, with no immediate friends or family around, there seems little reason to use it of late. I still love photography though, and can appreciate a good pic' and why and how it was taken. It is just that my computer has sort of 'filled the space' in my life, that the camera used to.

A friend who taught me much of the basics as I was thinking about getting a camera, used to stick heavy velvet curtains up in his dining room and actually taped four layers of brown wrapping paper over the whole window. He also lined the doorway into that room with sponge rubber strip so he could use it as his 'Dark Room'. I tried a couple of times but could never do the darkroom stuff. I am scared of the dark which does not help! My friend said use an old film and see if you can get it out of the film holder and into the developer, but try as I may, I could not find the end of the film or I spilled the developer!

I have done three wedding for friends, and even if I do say so myself, court some great moments. Because I was not a 'professional' I found the Registrar and others would try and rush me as I was getting pictures of the bride and groom signing the Register. But, all in all a good experience for me.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#48
In reply to #45

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/13/2009 2:01 PM

HI B-A-B-Y...! !

Well...Im in(sider) with some out-sight.Dont be mad with this semantics processing.

For future "join(t)Venture"ill apreciate your comentaries about other subjects,in this site(forums).

Ive no doubts youve good references in photography,so,"enlarge" your perspectives...

Better is to integrate more substantial information in todays electronic marketplace and build your own"technology"....

Digital pinhole camera ??.....I think is an advanced concept.Im trying to understand...

Let EZstreet dream,and he is right,perfectionism is a desirable attribute for those who knows what "perfect" is.

For you,personnally,i think you could perform some "freelance adventure".After all,AMERICA is a great and diverse country with a problematic identity.This is not a direct reference to the Constitution,a marveilouswrittenArt.....

Dont worry about darkroom techniques....

Appropriate(d) light to specific FILM(s)...:

RED(spectrum) for ORTHO films...

"strongGreen" to PAN(slower) films....

Orange(less than 25W) to process B/W paper...(Of all kind)

As a general rule process your colour films in a professional LAB.

...or use POLAROID instant films.They have a good,fast and secure process.

...and consider a Bushnell night vision(mariner adaptation)equipment for your "darkRoom" disasters.It could help you in FILM(en)ROLL(ment)process......

PHOTOS+GRAPHOS= writing with light

"Like every other medium of expression,photography must realize its limitations,but it must also realize its own,unique,intrinsic powers...."(ERIC de MARE)

Please,share this with EZSTREET,and put in a higher level the considerations....

Till tomorow.AlexMotto.

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#49
In reply to #48

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/13/2009 3:31 PM

Hi AM,

Really appreciate your time taken to put this together, thank you.

I have always wanted a Bushnell! Great scopes.

Great post ! Very clever and I can't see you have left anything out!

Really clever!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#56
In reply to #49

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/14/2009 8:58 AM

Hello BB...

I hope you really find your perfect scope or you can build one,a cheapest one.Ask your fellow engineers how to do.Willl be a pleasant experience,im sure.

My bushnell costed 200 US dolares...around.You can take the same,or better,for less.

Adapt emergent technology to your needs....

TCHAU.

www.olhares.com/

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#59
In reply to #56

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/14/2009 11:01 AM

Hi AM,

Bushnell Scopes... I know they are not cheap but they work!

I might actually order one from the States as they are one hell of a lot cheaper!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#22
In reply to #10

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 1:23 PM

Actually my sharpie problem has to do with fading on the mount board. Often I mount photos on acid free mount board. I liked the line of the fine point sharpie, and often used it for either titling, or drawing. Over some years I have noticed fading, which ought not happen on the acid free board.

In the case of titling done years ago directly onto the photographic print I notice less fade. I have wondered if Sharpie might have changed their ink over the years.

Some of my mounts were done on plain old dimestore poster paper, and the Sharpie really fades out badly on that. This event is likely has as much to do with the paper quality as the ink.

However pencil will hold up regardless of the paper quality, so I have turned to that.

Supposedly fine quality India Ink is more stable.

Further colored markers fade, and really for some of my work I would have been better to do a dilution of acrylic paints to get greater color stability.

As far a current photographic technologies, I have to say it would appear that regular old prints made at CVS are hardier than color prints of the 70s. Back in the day I left prints on the car dashboard that would fade away to a great degree by the end of a week. I repeated the experiment with a print recently, and noticed no fading.

A photographer I know highly recommends Costco, oddly enough. Apparently he makes large prints using what he calls their wet process.

Supposedly Fuji photopaper is superior to Kodak paper.

As far as the old mature photographic technologies I currently wonder if now that they are being replaced by digital processes, if this is a good thing from the standpoint of pollution. I lived in Rochester New York for a total of 8 years, and apparently there exists there a serious chemical pollution problem.

I feel bad about exhausted photo chemicals I poured down the drain.

Not sure if Digital inkprint processes are more environmentally friendly, or I just don't see where their dangers are.

It would appear they are safer.

I am inclined to tell younger photographers to forget about old school photography.

Frankly I say they are lucky that Digital has reached maturity as much as it has, especially in Motion Picture and Television production.

In a military situation you want to have weapons that go faster and further than those of your adversary, and certainly now for journalists the ability to from about anywhere take and transmit photos makes the Digital camera superior.

The wire photo methods for transmission of images addressed this need most to my knowledge during WWII. Since Digital photography will work for both Art, and Journalism, whereas Old School methods will not do both as easily, I'll certainly not be buying any film cameras, regardless of the price.

Really I have little fascination anymore with the machines, and simply want to hire a camaraman and direct the image making.

For cinematographers I say, "Get next to a Panavision, and don't leave it."

Of Digital cameras I would love to employ a Digital Panavision.

The cinematography of No Country for Old Men somehow utilized both film and digital cameras, and detailed resolution was outstanding.

I have had many or used many cameras. One favorite was the 4x5 sheet film Crown Graphic. When you pulled up a camera as big has your head to take a shot, the person being photographed tended to take you seriously, and would cooperate a bit more.

When small digital cameras started to become professionally viable a friend of mine commented how weird it was that you would have all the lights and trailers and everything, and then this little bitty camera.

Very good they don't need a sound case, barney, a quiet camera is a good camera.

I never liked the Lecia, though I respect it, and it was and is mechanically quiet. This was an advantage and influenced candid, naturalistic shots.

One of my favorite cameras was the Minox 35.

Had a Keystone 16 MM that I loved, and wish I still had.

Used about 3 Bolex and some Arris.

Liked the Pentax still cameras, not so much for their hardiness, but for their ergonomics.

Dead film formats are a drag.

Got some 126 negatives of the family you've got to go through hoops to get printed.

Came across an antique 828 camera, and forget about Polaroid anymore.

I loved Polaroid since I didn't really like darkroom work.

For color it was high in silver content and supposedly a museum would buy a polaroid print, as made, instead of requiring a dye transfer print.

The process for wire photo back in the 40s would be an interesting Y files piece, don't you think?

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#23
In reply to #22

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 1:33 PM

The only thing I know that lasts like graphite or carbon, is India Ink,if you can find it.It is mostly lampblack (carbon) with a liquid vehicle.It can be made by mixing lampblack with alcohol.Soot from a chimney works well as a substitiue for lampblack.

Be careful with it, it is very hard to remove.It can be applied with a quill ,or old fashioned split-point ink pen, if you can find them,also.

Hope this help in labeling your photos.

EZStreet

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#37
In reply to #23

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/12/2009 1:56 PM

Hi EZS,

Yes you are correct about India ink. But being 'permanent' it is hardly appropriate to be working with prints with it? Keep it safe and use a 6B pencil!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#4

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/10/2009 12:17 PM

Thanks for the education on cameras and lenses.It still amazes me how much resolution the old photo has.

Gone back to pencils,you say? Kinda like the handprints in caves that have lasted thousands of years: Carbon.

We still do not have a media that will last as long as stone tablets, but I guess that is progress?

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
India - Member - Sensors Technology Popular Science - Cosmology - Dream, Think and Act United Kingdom - Member - New Member United States - Member - New Member Canada - Member - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: AM-51, Deen Dayal Nagar, Gwalior, Madhya Pradesh, MP 474001, India
Posts: 3416
Good Answers: 32
#5
In reply to #4

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/10/2009 11:05 PM

Good resolution comes from the smaller grain size of the Silver Bromide photo-sensitive film on cellulose base. It also depends on spread cased by the developer for enhancement of the darkness on the film. Grain area increases in the film development process around an active Silver atom sensitized by exposure of light. Slow films give much better special resolution than fast films as slow films have finer and thin coating of Silver Bromide.

Digital photography has almost taken over now and limited resolution comes from pixel density of the CCD imaging chip and optics used. Finest CCD element may be 5um to 10um range. Films can have 1um grain or even finer if nano material are used. You have an order of magnitude to resolve and also you have no limit on what size of film you can use. Some old camera were using films as large as A4 sheet and man used to insert his head inside the camera to have a feel of the image. They also used explosives or exploding bulbs to create good amount of light for intense exposure.

I think billion pixel camera is a good possibility in near future at affordable price. You will also like to carry it in your pocket rather than putting your head inside a very large camera. It is more of a life style change than the quality of what it might had been in olden times using simple tools.

__________________
Prof. (Dr.) Shyam, Managing Director for Sensors Technology Private Limited. Gwalior, MP474001, India.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#19
In reply to #5

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 11:07 AM

Dear Professor....

Maybe in the near future time WE(all)will project HOLOGRAMS.....

(Graphical)SENSORS implanted in YOUR head and Robust processors will term for a

BIONIC BRAIN.But...is it desirable ??..........It will be FREEDOM RAMDOMized ???......

What can we expect for those "such incredible MACHINES" ??.....

I need to review my "social contract".And,in the other "critic spaces" ill try to neutralize such growing POWER...! ! !...........

EZSTREET is absorbed in "MAGIC".So,he might be there for long...! !

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#9
In reply to #4

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/11/2009 1:35 AM

Artists are advised not to use any media that is very valuable.

Bronze has inherent value as a cannon metal, and your wonderful statue may hence become a cannon.

Stone is common.

I am not upset that drawings with pencils on stone works.

I am only upset that I can't draw better.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#32
In reply to #4

Re: Pinhole camera for high resolution

11/12/2009 12:34 PM

Hi EZS,

Everything you say is correct of course, but it is a shame that no base structure and method will come close to the longevity of silver and glass?

You cannot really beat the 'BASICS' of, as others and you say, carbon, silver and glass. Unfortunately, burning of CDs and DVDs puts so much information down that the substrate must be burned extremely quickly. We still have a long way to go to see if perhaps SSDs (Solid State Devises) used for memory 'sticks'/'drives' can be reliable enough to store something for as long as say the written and printed words on paper. Finding something that will last that long............ 5/600 years, is hard, but, designing the way these precious memories should be used in or on, to retrieve those memories has beaten all so far.

It seems rather clumsy to have to record all the things we take for granted every 50 years or even a shorter period?

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Power-User
United States - Member - Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: La Grande, Oregon U.S.A.
Posts: 468
Good Answers: 23
#6

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 1:01 AM

I have read about the same effect than you describe on old Daguerreotypes. The reason given for their almost infinite resolution was that the emulsion didn't have a crystalline structure.

__________________
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft! - Theodore Roosevelt
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#31
In reply to #6

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 12:17 PM

Hi LG Dave,

I am not really so sure you are right there my friend.

I am sure plates, (there was no 'film') then, used silver halide as the 'fixable' metal structure for Monotone prints. Being 'metal', albeit very thin, it is still metal and once 'fixed' in the developing process picture can still be gotten from the original plates.

There may be an issue with the substrate of the 'film' medium that was used for the next 100 plus years, but silver on glass stored safely, only for important prints and occasions like Wedding perhaps, cannot be beaten for clarity and longevity.

When you think about it probably the second most important thing in todays life is Electricity and photography. Not very much would or could be sold if it were not for this 'magic'? It and advertising the everyday products we rely on is one of the single most important feature of anyones life, even if they do not own a camera!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
2
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#7

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 1:16 AM

Hi EZS,

Sound like you have thought about this a lot but, just dare I say it lack experience?

Have another look at those pictures. Chances are you probably will not see many people or any moving things, if it was taken using a Pin-Hole Camera.

Even if you had the most sensitive film that is available for good quality photos, each particular film type needs a different amount of light or exposure. That can happen with a huge wide open lens and a shutter speed of just a few thousands of a second. Or alternatively, you can have a tine pin-hole which could need an exposure measured in minutes, tens of minutes is must likely.

Now back to my original point about no people, horses, cars or in fact anything that moves. Some the the original daguerreotype films and cameras did not record any moving thing in the pictures. NOT because there was none, but because the films were not very sensitive compared to today and, with a very long slow exposure and a moving object going through the 'field of view' you are taking, without being there long enough to register on the film. You may see a blurred horse and cart but no person. That is because the horse and cart was delivering coal and was standing still long enough to register on the film and so you get the image. About the only time I recall catching an 'accidental' picture of a person was if the view was somewhere near The Mall in London where you may be taking the picture of a distant guardsmen keeping the queen/king safe. A really busy City like London can look like a ghost-like place with no one around.

The depth of the camera or in this case the 'box' the pin-hole is in is critical as well. And this is where some corrugated card is useful. Take a picture in the bare box and see what happens. Chances are if the centre in not too bad and is almost in focus, the outer part may not be in focus. Now put a layer of corrugated on the back and do the same again. If it is better than you know you have built you box at least large enough. But playing around with padding the back of the box out to see if you get better picture is crude. But you are using a crude technique anyway. If it 'takes' picture you like that is fine. But you may want to get an old glass slide film camera with a good lens. I have not checked on these but I would think you would get a basic Portraiture lens, and perhaps a mid to distant lens, or they may slide between the two I cannot recall. They are not that expensive, and they are called 'Plate cameras I think. Not have enough time to check the details sorry.

Have you developed a plate or film before? Not may people have, and there is a technique, you have to learn to do it all by touch. But you will know that.

I will be back soon but any other posters may have answered your questions better than I did by then.

Good luck

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Good Answers: 2
#29
In reply to #7

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 9:41 PM

Now back to my original point about no people, horses, cars or in fact anything that moves. Some the the original daguerreotype films and cameras did not record any moving thing in the pictures. NOT because there was none, but because the films were not very sensitive compared to today and, with a very long slow exposure and a moving object going through the 'field of view' you are taking, without being there long enough to register on the film. You may see a blurred horse and cart but no person. That is because the horse and cart was delivering coal and was standing still long enough to register on the film and so you get the image. About the only time I recall catching an 'accidental' picture of a person was if the view was somewhere near The Mall in London where you may be taking the picture of a distant guardsmen keeping the queen/king safe. A really busy City like London can look like a ghost-like place with no one around.

that totally amazes me..........

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#39
In reply to #29

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 2:31 PM

Hi rd,

It is an unusual fact for sure.

In truth there was probably more pedestrians than today, but unless they were leaning on a lamp-post or shop front, their image was just not rendered.

With modern film so sensitive, people seem to fill the frame and it is sometimes difficult to find a place in Town where there is few people.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - Fishing - Popular Science - Paleontology - New Member

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Holeincanoe Ontario
Posts: 2169
Good Answers: 27
#55
In reply to #7

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/14/2009 5:09 AM

GA Bear.......I'd just like to add that the amount of light entering a pinhole camera is minimal. This requires much longer exposure times than say, with conventional lenses. It is the relationship between aperture, F stop, reciprocity and the main objective lens that determines min/max focal planes (and hue).

Having said that I have noticed that many lenses today are made from polycarbonates. I have to wonder whether these will not degrade with time. My Nikon poly eyeglass lenses certainly have a yellowish tint that wasn't there five years back.

__________________
Prophet Freddy has the answer!
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#57
In reply to #55

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/14/2009 10:17 AM

HI Ducky,

How are you?

Tar 4 the GA!

I just went back to check on post 7 which you refer to and the spelling is atrocious! i most ov hede noe yey clodes!............ And my mnid aslpee.

I know what you mean with the pinhole versus the lensed camera. The lens not only gathers a wider field of view 'perhaps', but with that wider FOV also come the extra light gathered by the lens.

Using a 'film' stills camera took a lot of practice and each make of film had a different hue. This was no bad thing and could always be used to your advantage. I think it was Fuji which had a blue or green hue, so was pretty good for natural scenes. I was just trying out some of the less popular very slow and extremely fast emulsions in my Pentax when something happened to stop me using it for a couple of years.

What I am trying to say is there was so many factors which had to come together to 'make' what was universally agreed was a great picture, the correct lens (glass always!) film speed, lighting, weather, film type (hue), shutter speed, focus, .........

I do not think you have that on a digital camera. You have to work around the presets of the sensor, and those sensors may be the same or the drivers for them may be the same for each camera, where the only factors you can change will be light (Exposure) and time. The quality is preset by the number of pixels?

Anyway, I think you see what I mean, OK?

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#8

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 1:24 AM

Hi EZS,

I have just pasted a few of the older type cameras, but not pin-hole ones, below. You move the bellows back and forth by hand to focus.

You can quite often find these types of cameras in boot sales and second hand shops. If the bellows have a hole in it is easily mended and you can pick a real gem up for next to nothing. Then you need a couple of metres of cloth which is joined to the camera and you throw it over your head to keep light of the plate as you put it in and as you make an exposure. Most likely by removing the lend cap and count to say 5 seconds?

Will be back to have a better look at the thread later.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Germany 49° 26' N, 7° 46' O
Posts: 1950
Good Answers: 109
#11

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 3:59 AM

Hi,

if you want to do this much better, then search for an outdated aerial camera, once flown by MIGs, Starfighters, and others.

Zeiss, Lomo, Oude-Delft are magnificent makes.

Adapt a new film mechanism (up to 240 x 240 mm), 70 x 70 mm for the smaller ones.

If digital: there are 64 M-Pixel available now.

This will be a Super-Camera, but atmospheric dust and wind-shear and fog will be your limitations.

RHABE

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#33
In reply to #11

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 12:38 PM

Hi RHABE,

I echo your sentiments entirely!.......... For really serious photography.

You wrote:

if you want to do this much better, then search for an outdated aerial camera, once flown by MIGs, Starfighters, and others.

Zeiss, Lomo, Oude-Delft are magnificent makes.

Adapt a new film mechanism (up to 240 x 240 mm), 70 x 70 mm for the smaller ones.

If digital: there are 64 M-Pixel available now.

This will be a Super-Camera, but atmospheric dust and wind-shear and fog will be your limitations.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Hemel Hempstead, UK
Posts: 5792
Good Answers: 315
#12

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 4:27 AM

You can zoom in with a magnifying glass and read the calendar behind a bartender

Now have a look at the bartenders face: if he manged to keep completely still during what was probably quite a long exposure I'd be surprised.

__________________
We are alone in the universe, or, we are not. Either way it's incredible... Adapted from R. Buckminster Fuller/Arthur C. Clarke
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#13

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 8:29 AM

Take a look if you can to ERIC de MARE(Photography),Focal Press....

Personnally i think is a question of PASSION with concerns to old techniques....

Remarkable,astonishing prints were done,and if you have "that Pinhole Camera"dont

hesitate....Theres (YET) a lot of good Chemicals to try.....

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#14

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 8:47 AM

You are all correct in that the images appear to be stationary, but wow what detail! An electric rail company sign is visible thru the window and a zoom in at 10x gives incredible detail.The bartender's mustache is visible down to the individual hairs.A calendar behind him is easily readable.

I am amazed by this detail in this era with crude instruments.

The newest I have heard of is the Foveon chip, that incorporates all three basic colors into one pixel,giving better resolution,and less software/hardware to process images.

Anyone with experience using this technology?

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New Jersey U.S.A.
Posts: 1114
Good Answers: 38
#15

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 9:21 AM

Explanation: If every picture tells a story, this one might make a novel. The six month long exposure compresses the time from December 17, 2007 to June 21, 2008 into a single point of view. Dubbed a solargraph, the remarkable image was recorded with a simple pinhole camera made from a drink can lined with a piece of photographic paper. The Clifton Suspension Bridge over the Avon River Gorge in Bristol, UK emerges from the foreground, but rising and setting each day the Sun arcs overhead, tracing a glowing path through the sky. Cloud cover causes dark gaps in the daily Sun trails. In December, the Sun trails begin lower down and are short, corresponding to a time near the northern hemisphere's winter solstice date. They grow longer and climb higher in the sky as the June 21st summer solstice approaches.

I usually hit this site after CR4. As you can see, depending on type of pinhole, duration of exposure can be VERY LOOOONG.

__________________
The last fight was my fault. My wife asked "What's on the TV?" I said "Dust!"
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#34
In reply to #15

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 12:45 PM

Hi charsley99,

Not so must 'detail' here, but my how much information!!!!! Brilliant.

Thank you for all the links!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: India
Posts: 22
#18

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 10:58 AM

I appreciate the photographer's skill. I have never seen a Pin-hole camera except read in physics text books. But I can imagine the trouble of cutting and fixing the photographic film inside the camera, positioning the camera in such a manner so as to get the object's image right on the film, without a viewfinder, removing the film for processing.... One has to be a physicist to do all that!

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#20

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 11:15 AM

Ok, guys, bear with me in my search for illumination into the dark crevices of my ignorance of phototgraphy, the photos (memories) take time to develop.

All objects in a mirror are in focus, right? Even distant objects are focused as well as nearby objects.Can you take a photo of a scene in a mirror and get the same depth of field, with everything in focus? I am sure there are subleties of the process that I do not understand, so shine a little light on this idea please.

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 158
Good Answers: 5
#28
In reply to #20

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 8:19 PM

EZ,

Your thinking is faulty regarding the mirror. A mirror reflects each point of light that hits it without changing it. Your eye seems to see everything sharp because it instantly changes focus as you see near to far. When you look at a scene, the eye sees the near objects in focus but the background is unclear until the point of focus is caanged. The eye jumps around the scene so fast that it seems that the whole scene is in focus. In a flat photograph, the eye can see the foreground and the background at the same focus point. The eye and brain work wonderfully together. Adding a mirror does not change the optical properties except to give you a "mirror image".

The properties of lenses have been discussed before to great length and I don't want to go there. Just remember that perceived image quality can be different depending on lens design, including the lens coatings, the type of glass, and number of elements. Also, the various films see color, sharpness, grain and contrast differently. What pleases you may not please another as well.

When I was in photo school, we learned that the typical B&W film produce 128 shades of gray, but printing paper was 20 or 30 shades of gray. The eye can perceive far more than that. Color film behaves similarly. That is why Transparency Film has always been preferred for best results. Different brands and processes gave varying results so opinions range widely.

Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#21

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 12:11 PM

EZSTREET.....take a look in #19 by AlexMotto,please.

And then,LOOKasInsider,adress and Forward for yourself.....

Technology and technique.

Right away in the next corner youll see the "DARK AGENT"....

What is he doing...??.....

I tell YOU.Storing and processing Images and sending them in "real" time for a giant DataBase where Powerful Algorithms(AI)will perform certain tasks.

But,what about the QUALITY of those IMAGES ???..............

Seeing with Artificial Vision is not the same like "your Brown Eyes".Theres a critical latency for the Good Processment,so the "Dark agent"will never see as YOU.And if you accept "Vision is in a large scale your feelings and emotions"and GOD is seeing like an Old fashionable photographer youlltake some advantage(s)..........in beeing in the REAL WORLD.Never loose that perception ! ! ! !

And...responding to your question.....

Is not TRUE "all objects in a MIRROR are in FOCUS " ! ! !Can be almost the time.

But,disalign diferencially "some distance"in respect to your Mirror to "a critical distance" where even with a powerful vision youll see yourself "blured"or you can not diferentiate clearly the colour of your eyes or see the pigment of your skin.

This is a mental training.Youll need to practice till masterize "the technique" ! ! !..

In the process absorb your physical integrity and project to transform yourself,in the meantime,to be a "Master sourcerer"or whatever.....

Conclusion:

In your question thats a suggestion,too,depht of field is critical.

YOUll see "clearly" as you want,since some LIGHT,Faith and Hope is targeted

in your HEART ! ! !............(By AlexMotto)

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#24
In reply to #21

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 1:55 PM

I agree in principle with what you say.We have accepted norms and names for colors that we percieve, but we really do not know what another person sees when they look at a red apple, or anything else for that matter.Our visual image is a construct, influenced by our personal experiences,prejudicies, and attitudes.

However, by the same token, I feel that the older, non digital film formats capture a true reflection of reality that comes through from the film.A sense of presence, a frozen slice of reality.Everyone is free to interpret as they see fit, no software enhancement or editing.Simply the facts.

Light bounces off of objects in all directions, and chemical film captures a piece of this radiation, whereas digital is converted into electrical charges that represent the various light levels.A good facsimile, but not the real thing.

Perhaps it is the way I look at things, but I can feel the personalities of the people in old film but digital one leave me unaffected at the gut level.

Members of certain tribes believed that a photograph captured a person's soul and would not allow photographs to be taken of them.Perhaps they were right in some measure.Not that I beleive that a person's soul is captured, but something is there, in old photographs that is missing in digital ones.

Sincerely,and always, a humble seeker of knowledge.

EZStreet

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Active Contributor

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 19
#44
In reply to #24

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 7:14 AM

Well EZs....

Be confortable when YOU "ROBASOUL"....and thats TRUE,effectivelly ! !

Go beyhinde and be an "intrinsic" Psychologist who integrates some POETRYARTFORM

and you will be able to understand a little bit more.

Join some good songs,put the reserved ATTRIB of "PERSONAL" and explain for youeself the choices you have been made.....

Thanks so much for your company and "the others" in this Forums.....

All of you are special people to ME.(ALEXMOTTO)

Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#46
In reply to #44

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 10:08 AM

Hi AM,

If I may 'butt-in', I am glad you joined! Thanks you.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#25

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 5:57 PM

Hi EZS,

Is there any chance you can send a link or copy the pictures you refer to when you mentioned your stuff about pinhole pictures please? I would love to see what you mean and am really into Photography, though it has been some time since I had a decent camera.

Sorry EZS, Here are some links to pinhole and sites on pinhole cameras. Good luck.

  1. Pinhole camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaA pinhole camera is a very simple camera with no lens and a single very small aperture. Simply explained, it is a light-proof box with a small hole in one ...
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinhole_camera -
  2. Science Explorer: Pringles Pinhole--make a camera from a recycled ...Suppose you point your Pringles® Pinhole at a brightly lit bouquet of flowers. Light reflects off the red rose, the blue iris, the white daisy, ...
    www.exploratorium.edu/science.../pringles_pinhole.html
  3. HowStuffWorks "How does a pinhole camera work?"I have seen things called "pinhole cameras," and I have even seen pictures taken by them. How do they work? Why don't they need a lens to focus the image?
    electronics.howstuffworks.com/question131.htm -
  4. Image results for pinhole camera - Report imagesReport the following images as offensive. Confirm CancelThank you for the feedback.

    £14.69 new - Fred Aldous Ltd - Art
    £9.25 new - Curious Minds
    £11.99 new - SHOP.COM
  5. KODAK: How to Make and Use a Pinhole CameraBy using common household materials, you can make a camera that will produce pictures. Making and using a pinhole camera will acquaint you with the basic ...
    www.kodak.com/global/en/consumer/.../pinholeCamera/
  6. What is a Pinhole Camera? [pinhole.cz]1485) that the first detailed description of the pinhole camera was set down by ... While the first photograph taken with a pinhole camera was the work of ...
    www.pinhole.cz/en/pinholecameras/whatis.html
  7. Pinhole Camera - Photographs, Information, PinholeDesigner ...The pinhole camera - the camera without a lens. ... In fact, forget about the cameras you are used to and discover the world of pinhole cameras. ...
    www.pinhole.cz/en/
    Show more results from www.pinhole.cz
  8. The Pinhole GalleryThe Pinhole Gallery, a showcase of pinhole photographs and photographers from ... Collection Of Images Taken With Pinhole Cameras - The Pinhole Gallery ...
    pinhole.org/
  9. Welcome to the Pinhole ResourceThese caps are available from Pinhole Resource for most all DSLR cameras. ... For your first pinhole camera, you want to choose a container that seems easy ...
    www.pinholeresource.com/
  10. Pinhole photography history and guide from Photo.netLearn about pinhole photography's history and find formulas at Photo.net.
    photo.net/learn/pinhole/pinhole
  11. The Canon EOS 1Ds pinhole cameraA simple method for making a digital pinhole camera from a Canon 1Ds and some toilet roll tubes.
    www.northlight-images.co.uk/.../Canon_1ds_pinhole.html
  12. Video results for pinhole camera
    Make Video Podcast: Weekend Projects - Make a ...
    6 min - 11 Aug 2006
    www.youtube.com
    How To Make a Pinhole Camera
    3 min 59 sec - 1 Nov 2009
    www.howcast.com

Searches related to:pinhole camera

pinhole camera history

pinhole spy camera

pinhole video camera

pinhole camera kit

wireless pinhole camera

digital pinhole camera

camera obscura pinhole camera

kodak pinhole camera

You have removed results from this search. Hide themLoading...

I thought I had copied and pasted a page of links to Plate Cameras. I list that page now below.

  1. Camera Anatomy - Plate Cameras - how to use a plate cameraThis is what the little catches or detents on the camera are designed to prevent - but they are only as good as the person using them. The plate is now ...
    licm.org.uk/livingImage/Plate-Camera4.html
  2. Camera Anatomy - Plate Cameras, Part 1Plate Cameras are really defined by the type of film they originally used rather than the actual attributes of the camera 's construction itself. ...
    licm.org.uk/livingImage/Plate-Camera.html
  3. History of the camera - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaDespite the advances in low-cost photography made possible by Eastman, plate cameras still offered higher-quality prints and remained popular well into the ...
    First exposure - Daguerreotypes and calotypes - Dry platesen.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_camera -
  4. Image results for plate camera - Report imagesReport the following images as offensive. Confirm CancelThank you for the feedback.
  5. Shopping results for plate camera
    Racho Plate Camera
    £52.00 used - Jim's CamerasSachtler 3080 V-plate camera plate for Sachtler Video 60 Plus ...
    £217.35 new - Creative Video ...PAC Full-Frame Rear View CCD Color License Plate Camera - Chrome VCILP
    £109.77 new - Limited Goods.com
  6. Kirk Enterprises : Quick Release Camera PlatesQuick Release Camera Plate. The more quickly you need to work in the field, lab or studio, the more you'll appreciate Kirk Arca-style quick-release camera ...
    www.kirkphoto.com/Camera_Plates.html
  7. Bellows Plate Camera Bellows Plate Camera This camera dates from the Victorian period it is made from ... Learn more about the Bellows plate camera from the online video below. ...
    www.redcar-cleveland.gov.uk/.../149AEEC32720631A8025734E0049AF45?... -
  8. Introduction to Traditional Plate Camera PhotographyThis is very important, since with a little modification, these DDSs can fit into a half-plate camera like a Gandolfi, but NOT a Thornton Pickard half-plate ...
    plate-camera.livejournal.com/
  9. ANTI-TWIST PLATE F/F5 CAMERA - Tiffen.ComCork or rubber friction pads help, but the real solution is to use a camera-specific Anti-Twist (AT) Plate. They act as an interface between the camera and ...
    www.tiffen.com/displayproduct.html?tablename...300...
  10. Really Right Stuff ... Quick-Release Camera Body PlatesCanon G9 camera fitted with Really Right Stuff BG9-L plate. ... If there was a layer of rubber between the plate and the camera body, excessive torque could ...
    reallyrightstuff.com/QR/04.html
  11. Wimberley Professional Photo Gear - Camera Body Plate::P-5 Camera Body Plate ($52.00). We set out to design a simple Arca-Swiss style universal plate that provides the same quality of construction, ...
    www.tripodhead.com/products/camera-body-main.cfm
  12. Carte de Visite Wet Plate CameraCarte de Visite Wet Collodion Plate Camera, c1860s, Carte de Visite photographs are small prints mounted on cards that are roughly 2-1/2 by 4 inches. ...
    www.antiquewoodcameras.com/wetpl1.htm

You have removed results from this search. Hide themLoading...

You can quite often find these types of cameras in boot sales and second hand shops. If the bellows have a hole in it is easily mended and you can pick a real gem up for next to nothing. Then you need a couple of metres of cloth which is joined to the camera and you throw it over your head to keep light of the plate as you put it in and as you make an exposure. Most likely by removing the lend cap and count to say 5 seconds?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I hope you can send the pictures and hope you find these sites of some use.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#26
In reply to #25

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 7:05 PM

The pictures are of my Great Uncle, who was born in 1876.He died in 1964.I had the great priviledge of being reared by this old fashioned gentleman and his wife, my aunt.

I feel lucky to have known people from 3 centuries (19th 20th and 21st) and can connect memories directly to them.They have greatly enriched my life.

The pictures were found going through some old memoirs that my mother had, and I am afraid that the bright light from a modern scanner will degrade the quality.A digital scanner rendering would not be the same anyway, so it is a moot point.The photos have no bronze tint to them so maybe that will tell you something.I wish I had the negatives, but it was done by a professional photographer of the time period and he probably kept them.

I am still going to pursue the pinhole aspect of photography.Thanks for the links.

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#27
In reply to #26

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 7:37 PM

If I need to get a copy of something and I dont have access to a scanner or cant use it for some reason, I get my trusty digital camera out. You could set the picture up in a bright room and to get the best image without a flash, use a longer exposure setting (dark or night for some cameras), set the camera down where the image fills the viewscreen and take the picture.

Drew

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#38
In reply to #26

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 2:21 PM

Actually the absence of a bronze tint would be a sign of quality printing.

Though the discussion is interesting as far as pinhole cameras is concerned, I myself have strong doubt that the photographs were in fact made with a pinhole camera.

By the 1920s photography had reached a fairly mature state.

I'd hazard without seeing the images, which I doubt themselves would suffer from scanning, that they were made with a sheetfilm camera of possibly 8 x 10 format.

I forget at what point glass plates were completely stopped.

By the 1920s very advanced motion picture cameras using 35 mm film had been invented and were being used.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#40
In reply to #38

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 2:44 PM

Hi Transcendian,

Just a small point..............

"completely" is a very definate word and one meaning is finished.

Glass Plates are still used by those specialists and those who want to try or those who like a certain type of 'look' or atmosphere in their photos. I admit there are not many users but, some Plates are still used.

I forget at what point glass plates were completely stopped.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#41
In reply to #40

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 4:43 PM

I had a girlfriend that complained that I wrote too often in absolutes.

Hence I am primed for such criticisms.

I have only been using cameras since the 60s, and the oldest camera I used was a Graflex Crown Graphic.

I did one time sell a Bell and Howell 35 mm motion picture camera that had been made in 1913, and was still useful in 1988 or so, for animation with the addition of a stepmotor.

(sold it for 28 hundred bucks even then. I believe it had a double claw pull down that was very desirable for animation stability and registration, making its application for animation desirable.)

I do not know of a manufacturer making glass plate negatives.

Depending on the lens, and my own Crown Graphic had lousy lenses on the board, you could get a terrifically detailed photograph at about 125 th of a second at 3.5 from even terrible lenses.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 158
Good Answers: 5
#42
In reply to #41

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/12/2009 8:14 PM

Trans,

I still have my Crown Graphic with about a dozen film holders, a film pack adapter and a few glass plate holders which are useless for film. I don't know if you could find glass plates today, but if one was truely industrious, he could coat his own glass plates. The emulsion formulas should still be available, but why?

The shutter and lens assembly were produced for Graflex by Wollensak. It was not the sharpest lens but produced excellent results on 4x5 film. It was also good using a 70mm back that I borrowed one time. It is really a versatile camera having some view camera features. Combine that with a 90mm and a sturdy tripod and you can have a lot of fun.

Ansel Adams and others of his time and before often used large format view cameras, 8x10 or larger to do the fantastic scenics that they were famous for; they called themselves the f64 group as that was the typical aperature that they used. They usually made contact prints from the negatives.

I do miss the old days and the old ways, but today's digital is much more convenient.

tommm

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#47
In reply to #42

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 11:49 AM

Among some of the "yuts", youth there is a move to make photographs using film. I consider it similar to the move to put music on vinyl.

Sure enough film cameras can produce very fine images.

After a hundred and 50 years you'd sort of expect so.

As far as your Crown Graphic it sure does sound nice. Having the holders for the glass plates probably increases the value of the collection.

I had a Polaroid back for mine that on occasion I made some really sharp pictures with.

These days I lust for a Digital Canon as I suppose some lusted for the Crown Graphic in its day.

One sales point for Kodak movie film, over the competetors was that whereas you could make Kodak film look like Fuji, or Agfa, you couldn't quite make them look like Kodak.

I have seen software programs applied to even videotapes of 15 years ago, that could make that stuff look like real film, and extrapolate that it would now be possible to achieve the "look" of one of these old cameras.

Of course youths may need to shoot some with them simply to know what sort of image to make their computer do with the cameras of the day.

The Wollensak lenses that were common for the camera were not particularly good, in my opinion, and inpart a certain dreaminess especially when used naked for color film.

I don't think they were really made for color film.

The first tape recorder I spent time with was an old Wollensak, and I wonder whatever landfill may contain those tapes. Modern life as I've lived it has not led to the survival in my life of heavy things.

Thank God for Museums!

Anytime I meet someone from or on their way to Rochester New York I recommend to them that they visit The George Eastman House. I even go so far as to suggest that all serious photographers visit.

Supposedly its only competition is the Cinemateque Biblioteque in France, where I believe photography was invented.

Unfortunately I cannot testify as to which is better from a visit to France. At least some are aware of who I am at The George Eastman House from work I had around town. Later on, me and Wedding photography didn't work out with strangers.

When really getting deep into photography the camera is only half the battle, and you desire control of the light, or must have it on occasion, if you can work anywhere.

A professional cinematographers reel is required to display mastery enough to shoot interiors, day and night, and exteriors day and night.

The auto thyristor flashes that came out nearly insured you could get a viable negative quicker than ever.

Since you were typically shooting film cameras at a 50th of a second the lens were shot clean almost always as much as possible so filters are put on the lights.

I often worked with 10,000 Watt lights, and have worked with 18K HMIs.

The joke is "They call them Lights, cause they're heavy."

They get hot as hell too.

The invention of Dimmable florescent lighting for soft fill, (Kinoflos) was and is a terrific thing. -Chroma 50s are the daylight tubes, and Optima 35s for Tungsten Balance, by the way, unless something has changed since I was on set.

Many an actor has been near melted by some fool who wants the Classic lighting, when cool lights available will do the job as well or better. It is amazing what some actors will put up with.

Cinepars by LTM, that came out when I was working were terrific lights.

I one time had the opportunity to work with Neal Slavin who was famous for his Polaroid 8by10 contact prints. His book was The Britons.

He had us there to do hot lights, and then he also used flash for the shoot.

Apparently you need little other than the camera and the software and the computer now.

I usually had to get around with 10 tons of just lights, a set of light meters, dollies, track, lumber and wouldn't even touch the camera other than to move it.

Light and fast is good I tell you, Good!

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#50
In reply to #47

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 5:01 PM

Rochesteer ,NY eh? I was up there in '78 attending an instrumentation school gioven by Taylor Instruments.They have been bought out several times since then, last I heard was Combustion Engineering.

I remember having to go to the suburbs to get really good food, but it was probably because I didn't know anything about the city.

I remember the best prime rib I ever ate was at a place called the Nordic Village,if I remember correctly.( in Henrietta?) It had a roof that reached all the way to the ground and had snow covering it to the ground.Everyone in the "burbs had great salad bars back then , and boasted about how many items they had.Over 100 in some places.Didn't need the main course if you sampled the salad bar first.I remember going right by Kodak, and one of the instructors was putting in overtime regulating the temperature of one of their chemical mixing rooms.Had to be plus or minus 1/10 of a degree or so.And this was in the days of analog controls and analog computers.But they got the job done anyway.Like sliderules and pencils.Hardly ever used anymore.I guess I am just nostalgic, and it seems to be an affliction that sets in after 60 years of age.
The only way analog is coming back is if an EMP wipes out all the semiconductors, and then it will be temporary till digital gets back on it's feet.

A few places would survive unscathed, like the Panama canal, that still has the same old pneumatic controls it started with.Lighting strikes,surges,hurricanes, etc, come and go,and they keep on working.

Chemical photography is kinda like that. Digital is much more convenient and can be used by a novice and get good results, but digital in like a dotted line versus a solid line.Sampling is just that; a sample at given intervals that approximates the real thing.Close, as they say, but no banana.Flourescent lights blink at 60 cycles per second, but our retinal memory is 1/20 th of a second, so we don't notice the flicker.But office workers exposed to this lighting for long periods suffer from headaches.Your brain has to "fill in the blanks" between flashes.The newer solid state ballasts strobe much faster, but it is still not the same as incandescent for comfort.

We live in an analog reality, and analog captures it best, in my opinion.Guess I am just an old die-hard.

LED's are analog in nature,by virtue of using DC, and are making great strides in color rendition and brightness.Scanners that once used 300 watt halogens lamps at 6 inches distance can now use led's that put out very little heat and last 10 years or more.The halogens had to be constantly recalibrated weekly and replaced every month. I think LED lighting will lighten the burden of chemical photography and make it easier to get proper lighting.One will still have to know all the skills of an old time photographer, but for some, it is worth it.Like old dogs such as me.

I have enjoyed this forum immensely, and have learned a lot.

Thanks to everyone!

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#52
In reply to #50

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 8:38 PM

I was feeling so nostalgic that I just bought a Minolta at my local goodwill (charity shop). It is not working right, but it seems to be the mechanics of the film winding mechanism that is the problem.

(now, where did I put that tiny screwdriver)

Drew

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#53
In reply to #52

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 9:31 PM

Minoltas are typically prone to shutter failure.

I suggest you throw it away. Of those era 35mm SLRs, I hated Minolta.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#54
In reply to #53

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/14/2009 2:38 AM

Done...winding mechanism on the bottom is FUBAR.

Drew

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#58
In reply to #54

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/14/2009 10:46 AM

Hope you didn't pay much.

There are many many very fine film cameras available in the old school photo shops for very low prices.

Canons, and Nikons are hardy, and repair facilities are likely to continue to repair them. I was always impressed with Olympus, and as mentioned liked Pentax for ergonomics.

I sold cameras a few times as a job, and it can be compared to selling cars in that you take trade-ins, which is why the old school photo shop ends up with so many used cameras.

My opinion of Minolta cameras came about since so many people so often walked in with broken ones.

Interestingly enough is the fact Minolta made great light meters. The Minolta G3 was long the standard of the industry for motion picture production.

So Hey, The Company wasn't all bad.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Mechanical Engineering -

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 1651
Good Answers: 71
#60
In reply to #58

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/15/2009 9:53 AM

Was only $4 (US). And now I got a cool lens to play with. Perhaps I can get parts to fix it later and have something to play with.

Drew

__________________
Question: What is going on with the American's Government? Response: Who is John Galt?
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#62
In reply to #60

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/15/2009 11:48 AM

You may also be able to trade the lens towards some other working camera. 50mm is considered "normal" for 35 mm photography. I myself am fond of using 35mm lens for a bit wider coverage.

Some photography instructors recommend one master use of one particular film, such as Plus X, or TMax before messing with other films.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#63
In reply to #60

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/15/2009 11:56 AM

Hi Drew K,

Can you let me/us know if or when you find a 'parts' supplier please?

I would not say I am an expert photographer, but I am really fascinated by the subject and of the why individual camera Makes work to do the same thing, take pictures!

It may be you might have to get sub-assemblies? But there is lots of camera 'engineers' for want of a better word! And with the better professional cameras being little more than a square 'cylinder' with the back and sometimes the front being separate parts, it has to be 'doable' even if with very fine tools.

I had a really cheap 'Box-Brownie' which for those who do not know, was a cube shaped box camera with a postage stamp size viewing window which actually showed the image inverted. I used it everywhere climbing rocks, trekking, all sorts, and could hardly wait for the film to be developed so I could check out my,........ wait for it....... "Master-pieces!!! It took a couple of films to get used to the inverts image, where up was 'down' and visa versa. It looked pretty simple inside and after I got a new camera I started trying to see how the box camera worked. I scratched the inside non reflecting coating, and when I tried a monochrome film it had some sparkles haloed in a few places. I use a cotton-bud to touch up the scratches with 'Blackboard paint! Perhaps not the thing to do, but it was near but not on the shutter so there was nothing moving against it. The paint did seem to correct my damage, though I suspect there may be a slightly more 'hi-tec' remedy now?

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru
Popular Science - Cosmology - Let's keep knowledge expanding Engineering Fields - Retired Engineers / Mentors - Hobbies - HAM Radio - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North America, Earth
Posts: 4484
Good Answers: 106
#30

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/11/2009 11:31 PM

I remember from some years past that pin hole cameras were used when you wanted the picture to be fuzzy or smeared for a "cool" effect. The size of the pin hole makes a big difference, I think. Up to a point, the smaller the better. This link talks about what happens when the hole gets too small.

-S

__________________
“I would rather have questions that can't be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” - Richard Feynman
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#51
In reply to #30

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/13/2009 6:49 PM

The fuzzy thing was also done with Vaseline for semi porno pictures in Penthouse.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Good Answers: 1
#61

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/15/2009 11:16 AM

Pin hole cameras have almost infinite depth of field, but are not very sharp. think of them as a lens with an extremely small f/stop. At this point let me define some terms. Depth of field refers to distance in front of and behind actual focal point. In other words if we set our lens to focus at let say 10 feet, then not only will an object 10 feet from us will be sharp but also a certain amt in front of and behind that 10foot distance will also be criticaly sharp. The amt is what is called depth of field. Now let's define f/stop. this refers to a measurement of the ratio of the diameter of the lens opening ( diaphragm ) to the focal lenghth of the lens. The smaller the opening the greater the depth of field, but alas there is a certain f/stop that gives us maximum sharpness of the lens, it falls off as we increase or decrease the f/stop. The f/stop is a fraction with the number being the denominator of that fraction so the larger the number, the smaller the opening. A f/stop of f/8 is smaller then an f/stop of f/4

Think of a pin hole camera as a lens with an extremely small f/stop, f/200 or so. This will give almost an infinite depth of field but will produce a 'soft' image. And of course the smaller the lens opening the less light and therefore longer exposure necessary. Given the same amt of light, you will need twice the exposure time at f/11 as you will at f/8 for instance. thus more chance for blur due to camera shake. In a sense expore is determined by several factors. film ( or image sensor ) sensitivity ( ISO rating ), shutter speed and f/stop. A faster shutter speed will of course will stop action better then a slower shutter speed, on the other hand a smaller f/stop will produce larger depth of field. With a pinhole camera we only have ONE f/stop available with a lens with an adjustable Iris Diaphragm we have a choice of f/stops and thus can make a choice of f/stop and shutter speed combo. Also using lenses gives us a choice of focal lenght, but that's another article .

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#64

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/15/2009 1:40 PM

Truly EZStreet, I desire to see these images.

Some have indicated that they have experimented with putting foil or board over the lens mount on CCD, Digital cameras capable of changing lens as do the high end Digital cameras.

-anyway I have heard of this being done, but have not seen the images produced.

For such an experiment the photo foil, called Black Wrap would be what I would use.

A lensed camera is going to produce a sharper image for it allows for focusing of the light at focal plane.

Actually digital cameras such as the little Olympus I have, are likely pretty much hi-tech pinhole cameras. Frankly I am astounded the little thing I have will do what it does.

The photographs were likely shot with an 8by10 Dusseldorf glass plate camera, and contact printed., possibly some other 8by10 similar camera.

They could also have been made with something like a Speed Graphic.

The print size is an important clue.

By now I am at least as much interested in the content of the photos, and story, as I am in how they were made.

Was this photo taken as the bar was being shut down due to Prohibition?

What prompted the labor of taking this image?

The Brownie of Kodak was introduced in 1900 using roll film.

I suppose the oldest Brownie type camera I used was a 620.

Such would be comparable in the day to common low cost little digital cameras compared to the 4by5s and 8by10s of the day.

Commonly they did not produce particularly detailed photographs.

So my suspicion is that a professional took these photos, with a professional camera, and being so bold as to speak for the contributors, I do hope we get to see what has prompted for me a fun and interesting thread.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4513
Good Answers: 88
#65

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 5:43 AM

Post some of these pix, won't you?

I have a pinhole monitor - perfect for viewing these kinds of images.

Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Good Answers: 1
#66

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 10:00 AM

A+nother comment, there is a difference between RESOLUTION and DEPTH OF FIELD. As I explained in my previous post, depth of field refers to the amount in front of and behind the actual focal point while resolution or sharpness is the amt of lines per mm ( or inch ) that can be resolved. A lens will give much better resolution then a pin hole altho the pinhole will have almost infinite depth of field. If the pinhole camera used a large negative size ( 5x7 or even 8x10 ) and a contact print was made, the limited resolution will be ok, but if you try using a pinhole lens on 35 mm ( or even 120 ) size film, and then enlarge it to 8x10 or 11x14 you will see the softness ( blur ) due to soft resolution of the pinhole camera. I noticed that a discussion of digital cameras was introduced, I have used cameras ranging from 4x5 linhoff's and Graflex SLRs to 35 mm SLR ( Exactas) and still have and occasionally use a 120 6x7 Pentax SLR. However, now i use mostly digital, using the Sigma SD14 camera with the foveion sensor. I chose this camera because the foveon sensor sees light the same way color film does. Most digital cameras use a bayer pattern sensor, think of it as a 3 color checker board with the sensors on a 2 dimendional array, while the foveon sensor uses 3 layers with each layer seeing ( and recording ) one of the primary colors, just like color film does. If anyone wants to contact me, email me at livagain1@yahoo.com Be glad to discuss this with y ou. You can also see some of my work at www.fotografyplus.com ( I'm going to include a some pics here, the bum on the couch was done with an 35 mm Exacta SLR It was taken circa 1957 or so, the othr two are recent pics done with the Sigma SD 14 Enjoy )

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#67
In reply to #66

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 4:21 PM

Your participation in theis forum has been very valuable to me.You cleared up a nagging quetion I had about fStop and explained the virtues and deficits of a pinhole camera.You also answered my question about the Foveon sensor array.I had read how it worked,and was impressed from a technical standpouint, I am just glad to know it is in practical use.

Polaroid produced a low-end Foveon camera,but I cannot seem to find reference to it anywhere. I could have purchased one at the time but was hesitant to embrace the new technology.

I work on high speed scanners and OCR's, and I know there is a lot of software involved in deciding the real color of an object if it lies on a boundary two pixels, say a red and blue.It usually involves looking at the nearest neighboring pixels and making a guess based on statistics.

The Foveon eliminates the guess work and as a result, the circuitry is less expensive and much simpler.However, this is not reflected in the price of the new Foveon cameras.

Very impressive photos of the cars.Is that a 1936 or '37 Pontiac Chieftain that I see as the 2nd car? Na, maybe a Chevrolet?

I will be glad when the economy of scale brings the price down for the average person.I am sure it willl eventually become the standard,and the present 3 color lens/pixel combo will become just an ancient technology.

Thanks to everyone for the illumination of this subject.

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Good Answers: 1
#68
In reply to #67

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 5:53 PM

suprisingly enough, the foveon based cameras are NOT all that expensive ( OK espensive is relative ) . You can get an SD 14 camera body for under 900 dollars and a really good lens set 18 mm to 50 and 55 to 200 mm for about 300 for the set so your complete system would cost you under 1200 dollars . Of course you can spend more on lenses, but alot depends on your needs. Check out either B&H or Adorama in NYC. Again you can contact me at livagain1@yahoo.com ( if you email me I'll even email you back my home office number HLG

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Transcendia
Posts: 2963
Good Answers: 93
#71
In reply to #68

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 10:40 PM

I myself am interested in something that will give me the Hollywood look and sound from a digital camera.

__________________
You don't get wise because you got old, you get old because you were wise.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#70
In reply to #67

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 10:12 PM

Hi EZS,

Is this the camera you refer to?

It may not be as it looks pretty new, and I got the impression you were speaking of several years ago?

  1. Foveon X3 sensor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe earliest camera with a Foveon X3 sensor, the Sigma SD9, showed visible .... Sample Sigma/Foveon photos · Sample Polaroid x530/Foveon photos · Sigma DP1 ...
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foveon_X3_sensor - Cached - Similar -
  2. Triple-decker chip provides full color for every sensor pixel ...Uniden Showcases the Latest in Digital Camera Innovation At PMA 2004; Uniden to Feature Polaroid Digital Camera with Foveon X3 Technology. ...
    www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-90251051.html - Cached -
  3. Foveon - Polaroid x530Foveon's recently introduced X3 Fill Light software. The Polaroid x530 is also the first X3 based digital camera to capture in-camera JPEG format images. ...
    www.foveon.com/article.php?a=113 - Cached - Similar -
  4. Similar questions with polaroid x530 foveon camera multi voltage ...The Tech Information Sheet for Vostros says they can handle anything from 90 to 264 volts. Since Thailand claims their electricity is 220 volts, this should take ...
    askville.amazon.com/SimilarQuestions.do?...polaroid...foveon-camera... - Cached - Similar -
  5. digicamreview.com - Polaroid x530 Foveon ReviewPolaroid x530 Foveon - Digital Camera Preview Preview Date: 13/04/05. Rating: Not yet rated. Introduction: The Polaroid x530 should be available soon, ...
    www.digicamreview.co.uk/polaroid_x530_foveon_review.htm - Cached - Similar -
__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#72
In reply to #70

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 12:29 AM

Yup! That's it.I understand it was recalled and I cannot see where it was ever re-released.I guess they realized what they had and decided to go for the high end market.Not been able to find one for sale anywhere. My understanding was they had trouble with some of the electronic processing; aquisition speed,clarity(due to cheap lens), etc.This was probably due to a "first to market" philosophy.

Apparently the new generation of electronics has solved the processing problems, and add a high quality lens,and BINGO! The best digital camera anywhere.

To get true pixel equivalent of a standard digital camera, multiply the pixel rating by 3, because each pixel is actually 3 in one on the Foveon chip. A 14 Megapixel Foveon is equal to a 42 megapixel standard. And you have seen the results posted here.Even after scanning and reducing size for Internet the pictures are awsome!

One of these days,I may be able to buy one.For now, it's just a pipe dream.

Later,

E

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#73
In reply to #72

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 1:11 AM

Oops! Looks like I should have read ALL of your links before commenting.My info was outdated, since I was working from memory.The x3 mulitplier is not valid.The marketers have taken this into account to their advantage.Technically, what I said is correct, but the SD14 is actually a 4.7 actual pixel sensor.

Also, in reading the links,the Foveon wins in color fidelity, but the Bayer wins in fine detail.

Now, if they could just find some way to combine the high monochrome detail with the high color fidelity...Perhaps by overlaying the Y and Chroma signal.....maybe the next generation will use 4 layers.

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 54
Good Answers: 1
#74
In reply to #73

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 12:41 PM

that is a fiction. Think, let say a 9 Mpixel camera. it still has 3 mpixels red, 3 Mpixels blue and 3Mpixels green, weather they are in a 2 dimensional array as in a bayer chip or in a 3 layer system such as a the foveon chip. The advantage of the Foveon is that for the same size chip, you get larger sensors for each color with better light gathering and smoother colors. I feel the sharpness is thesame for both sensors I have no problem making very large prints with my Sigma SD14

Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#76
In reply to #74

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 4:00 PM

I am not taking issue with what you say,I am merely parroting what was said by the manufacturer.I respect the opinion of a real user above and beyond that or a lab tech anyday.I still apppreciate your input and will appreiciate your feedback on this quote from the Manfufacturer:

Here is the quote.:

According to Sigma Corporation, "there has been some controversy in how to specify the number of pixels in Foveon sensors."[17] The argument has been over whether sellers should count the number of photosites, or the total number of photodiodes, as a megapixel count, and whether either of those should be compared with the number of photodiodes in a Bayer filter sensor or camera as a measure of resolution.

For example, the dimensions of the photosite array in the sensor in the Sigma SD10 camera are 2268 × 1512, and the camera produces a native file size of those dimensions (times three color layers). This amounts to approximately 3.4 million three-color pixels. However, it has been advertised as a 10.2 MP camera by taking account of the fact that each photosite contains stacked red, green, and blue color sensing photodiodes, or pixel sensors (2268 × 1512 × 3). By comparison, the dimensions of the photosite array in the 10.2 MP Bayer sensor in the Nikon D200 camera are 3872 × 2592, but there is only one photodiode, or one pixel sensor, at each site. The cameras have equal numbers of photodiodes, and produce similar RAW data file sizes, but the Bayer filter camera produces a larger native file size via demosaicing.

However, the actual resolution produced by the Bayer sensor is more complicated than the count of its photosites, or its native file size, might suggest. The reason has to do with both the demosaicing and the separate anti-aliasing filter commonly used to reduce the occurrence or severity of color moiré patterns that the mosaic characteristic of the Bayer sensor produces. The effect of this filter is to blur the image output of the sensor, thus producing a lower resolution than the photosite count would seem to imply. This filter is largely unnecessary with the Foveon X3 sensor and is not used. The earliest camera with a Foveon X3 sensor, the Sigma SD9, showed visible luminance moiré patterns, but not color moiré.[18] Subsequent X3-equipped cameras have less aliasing because they include microlenses, which provide an effective anti-aliasing filter by averaging the optical signal over an area commensurate with the sample density, which is not possible in any color channel of a Bayer-type sensor. Aliasing from the Foveon X3 sensor is "far less bothersome because it's monochrome" according to Norman Koren.[19] Therefore, in theory, it is possible for a Foveon X3 sensor with the same number of photodiodes as a Bayer sensor and no separate anti-aliasing filter to attain a higher spatial resolution than that Bayer sensor. Independent tests indicate that the "10.2 MP" array of the Foveon X3 sensor (in the Sigma SD10) has a resolution similar to a 5 MP[20] or 6 MP[21] Bayer sensor, and at low ISO speed even similar to a 7.2 MP[22] Bayer sensor.

With the introduction of the Sigma SD14, the 14 MP (4.7 MP red + 4.7 MP green + 4.7 MP blue) Foveon X3 sensor resolution is being compared favorably by reviewers to that of 10 MP Bayer sensors. For example, Mike Chaney of ddisoftware says, "the SD14 produces better photos than a typical 10 MP dSLR because it is able to carry sharp detail all the way to the 'falloff' point at 1700 LPI whereas contrast, color detail, and sharpness begin to degrade long before the 1700 LPI limit on a Bayer based 10 MP dSLR."[23] Another article judges the Foveon X3 sensor as roughly equivalent to a 9 MP Bayer sensor.[24]

[edit] Comparison to Bayer filter sensors – noise

The Foveon X3 sensor, as used in the Sigma SD10 camera, has been characterized by two independent reviewers as noisier than the sensors in some other DSLRs using the Bayer sensor at higher ISO film speed equivalents,[25] and specifically chroma noise has been noted.[26][27] Another has noted higher noise during long exposure times.[28] However, these reviewers offer no opinion as to whether this is an inherent property of the sensor or the camera's image processing algorithms.

With regards to the Sigma SD14 which uses a more recent Foveon X3 sensor, one reviewer judged its noise levels as ranging from "very low" at ISO 100 to "Moderate" at ISO 1600 when using the camera's Raw image format.[29]

[edit] Comparison to Bayer filter sensors – actual samples

Sigma's SD14 site has galleries of full-resolution images showing the color produced by the current state of Foveon technology. The 14-MP Foveon chip produces 4.7 MP native-size RGB files; 14-MP Bayer filter cameras produce a 14 MP native file size by interpolation (demosaicing). Direct visual comparison of images from 12.7-MP Bayer sensors and 14.1 MP Foveon sensors show Bayer images ahead on fine monochrome detail, such as the lines between bricks on a distant building, but the Foveon images are ahead on color resolution.[30]

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#75
In reply to #73

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 3:55 PM

Hi EZS,

Forgive me for stating the 'obvious' but, why or how could the high colour fidelity be beneficial when taking monochrome pics? Or are you just talking of the general fidelity of the pic?

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#78
In reply to #75

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 10:05 PM

A color picture is composed of 2 elements:Chroma, which is obviously, color, and what is called in television, the Y signal, or outline. A cartoon with no outline looks funny, color only, no outlines, and will be seen if the TV loses it's Y signal. A color tv that loses it's Chroma signal will show the cartoon character's outlines only.This is oversimplification, but illustrates the point.A brick wall at a distance has a Y element to it: The horizontal and vertical lines.These lines, according to the links you provided, are better with the Bayer type arrangement (due to processing, apparently) than the Foveon.The Foveon is better for color rendition.

However, I feel that you must be really splitting hairs to reach that conclusion, perhaps looking at the waveform on an O'scope or similar analytical device.

In practice, it is probably not detectable.

And according to Liveagain, he has seen no difference, and I respect his opinion above a lab tech any day.

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#79
In reply to #78

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 10:56 PM

Hi EZS,

I have no Lab stuff.

I am just asking whether you are still interested in buying one or other of these phones, thats all.

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Commentator

Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 97
Good Answers: 2
#80
In reply to #79

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/18/2009 8:59 AM

I am interested in the SD14, but it is not financially feasible at the present time.I probably never will buy one, unless I win the lottery or something.

As previously stated by another poster, "inexpensive is relative " , and to me, it is not inexpensive.

However, I can still dream.

Later,

E

__________________
I'm too old to know it all, and too young to stop learning.
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#81
In reply to #80

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/18/2009 11:34 AM

I EZS,

I thank you very much for your reply post!

I fully understand what you mean! It would be amazing to be Bill Gates where you could go out and buy a Country! Or the Russian billionaire who owns 5 half billion Dollar boats and is getting his 5th built!

He/they may need to budget, but they do so starting with 6 then going up to 9 zero's!

It all depends on a whole lot of things as to whether you will buy it? Not least of which is how often you will use it? Given the choice I would get an SLR. A cursory glance over the cameras you mentions and it seems they are not SLR's.

Good luck on that Lottery win!

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Guru
United Kingdom - Member - Not a new member!

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: USA/Europe
Posts: 4547
Good Answers: 68
#77
In reply to #72

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/17/2009 5:34 PM

Hi EZS,

Thanks for the reply post.

Can you tell me if you are interetsed in buying a Stigma or Faveon? And if so would it be the body or body and lens?

__________________
Take it easy, bb. >"HEAR & you FORGET<>SEE & you REMEMBER<>DO & you UNDERSTAND"<=$=|O|=$=>"Common Sense is Genius dressed in its Working Clothes"<>[Ralph Waldo Emerson]
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 196
Good Answers: 2
#69

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

11/16/2009 8:26 PM

what does nikon use? my wife just bought a d90

Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 109
Good Answers: 4
#82

Re: Pinhole Camera for High Resolution

04/05/2011 1:22 PM

So, I picked up a 35mm camera at a charity chop recently but don't know much about it. I have been looking for a decent film camera for awhile and was hoping some of the knowledgeable posters here could tell me more about what I bought.

It is an Olympus OMPC, also known as an Olympus OM40. Here is a link to the owners manual I found online.

I would like to know how good of quality the camera and lens are, and what they might be worth (so I know if I need to keep it in a protective case or just my rucksack).

Thanks,

__________________
~A~
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 82 comments
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Comments rated to be Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive ratings to make them "good answers".

Comments rated to be "almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, rate them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

AlexMotto (9); Anonymous Poster (1); babybear (23); bm (1); charsley99 (1); Drew K (4); Duckinthepond (1); EZStreet (13); LG_Dave (1); livagain1 (4); perry (1); PWSlack (1); Randall (1); reefdiver (2); RHABE (1); Shyam (1); StandardsGuy (1); tommm (2); Transcendian (12); user-deleted-13 (1); ~Anon~ (1)

Previous in Forum: Replacing the Plastic Cover on a Husqvarna 55   Next in Forum: Car acceleration perception by humans
You might be interested in: Lens Holders, Window, Glass and Glazing Services

Advertisement