Metric vs Imperial units on forums

If this were a democracy I might suggest that the system used in the majority of countries be the standard.

People in North America really need to come to the table......

I have a theory that workers in the US where inches are bigger than centimeters, and miles are longer than kilometers, get more done, just cause everything they handle is typically a little bigger. Sheets of plywood from Europe are standard and smaller on the metric standard, and even shipping pallets are smaller for instance.

I've worked as a carpenter too, too much, and them metric tapes are hard to read.

Sure metric makes sense.

It's just a bit to small for us.

Hi Transcendian,

Sorry but I get wise because I get older. Shut, practically old! All the best, Gil.

Hey? Some of us in North America joined the 20th century back in 1970.

I wish people would realize there is more to N.A. than just the U.S.A., in fact Canada is MOST of N.A.

In business though as a vast majority of our trade is with that little republic to the south we pretty well function using both systems.

Especially in my biz where all the documentation from the US will be in Imperial units and the tariff and Canadian reporting regulations are metric.

http://www.sciencemadesimple.com/conversions.html I keep this very handy.

Hello Apothicus,

In the US, they don't use "Imperial" units. You said that they have everything bigger than we in Canada? I don't think so! One "Imperial" gallon is 4.54 litres. One "US" gallon is only 3.78 litres. Are you unhappy to hear that? This is the reason why the Americans order two beers after a hockey game. First, they lost the game and second, our pints or quarts are bigger but they want to drink at least like us. I need a few moments and I will find another shortcomings to the "US units". Please, don't confuse the "metric system" with any other system because the Chinese are coming with it. The US can tell that it's not the good system when they want to refuse someones deliveries. The lead containt was to high in toys! Refused. OK! I stop! Don't forget when we count, we use decimals?! Wow! Wish you a happy and quiet day, Gil.

My friend from the West,

We are bigger with and without ice but never forget that the population is ten time smaller. The Americans pay less taxes than we do. We have to send film makers, actors, many musicians, singers, oil and also gas to entertain, heat, and move (gasoline for cars) them. Some of Canadians become naturalized to not pay the national obligations like tax, etc...

However, I like them. They are crooked but they know how to do business. So, I learn and listen, Gil.

"without ice" ...that would explain your earlier hockey comment.

"population ten times small" ...... another plus in my book.

"pay less taxes" ......... until they need a trip to the hospital .....oops lets not start that one. But you forgot to mention that anyone can have low taxes if they don't mind running a deficit.

"We have to send..." Yes we are a net exporter of raw material, always have been always will be. How much did we pay them to keep Celine Dion?

"However I like them" .... I guess I'm with you on that one, I married one!

Hello Apothicus,

No! It's absolutely not necessary to send South our raw materials. There is another customer(s) who will pay a higher price for them! However, the actual exploitors of our raw materials are thinking of the moment "NOW", and forget the profitability for the longer terms. Never forget, the Americans are buyers but hard nosed negotiators and they look for their profits first and again.

Also, how is the water in your lakes and rivers out there, in the West? This is the consequence of the immediate profit-making action. Do now, someone else will do later, so better we get what we want, NOW! Who will pay for the bottles you and/or we have to buy to drink in the future? We will pay the drinking water but not from the profits some actually make, we have to pay from our pocket. I'm talking about drinking water! Canada is one of the better country on Earth to have the most and the best drinking water, up to now. However, we change that to dirty water within a few years. Think about it and let me know what's the solution for everything, here and there?

Concerning taxes?! Stop to buy and take pills, sold freely for everything to get back to your normal and you don't get or need any visit to see your physician to get another pills or be cut or have some level of radiations. H1N1 injections already produced 39 (starting number) paralysed people. We will have more dammage from the serum than the influenzzzzza.

I stop because I became negative and it's not my way to live, Gil.

"Think about it and let me know what's the solution for everything, here and there?"

Umm ya I'll get right back to you on that one.

"We will have more dammage from the serum than the influenzzzzza."

Don't get started on that old worn topic again please.

I don't want to be political but seeing the facts, I have doubt about our future. Pearson and Trudeau worked for Canadians and let the US power South of 45*. At that moment our dollar was more valueable than the green. After that we created association, free-trade with the US and we became the losers and have to follow them. The next government said no to many new proposals and our negative budget or debt turned to positive. However, the money maker for Canadians was immediately ousted to return to debt again. What's the solution? Use another unit system than the "metric"?

In the East, we also pollute our water but still we can clean it to make drinking possible. Could you tell me that is the situation with the "oil-sand" water too?

No accusation because it's not you who do it but practically no one is against.

Concerning the H1N1 serums and many others, it's big business nothing other. The $80 some million it cost, probably we could place those dollars into better use, but it's another story, isn't it?

No one topic is worn out until it isn't solved! Take your pills! We are Canadians and free to take what we want! We take one pill against headaches and the next day, week or month we have to take another pill to take care about the liver or kidney or something else. It's a good system. I know you don't like, if my understanding is correct, changes as many others. New is risky but what is unknown is a bigger risk, and the future is the biggest unknown.

Now, I am trying to convice you about my phylosophy of life. No I have to stop that, and let you do what you desire. However, remember that someone else is more knowledgeable than we are, you and me together, I understand. Don't be upset if we blogging about our thoughts and nothing concerning the M&I unit systems, Gil.

Hello Apothicus,

I forget to answer about the trip to the hospital for an ordinary American citizen. I hope they read my comments about pills and other cuts and rays. When someone eat correctly following the Metric or Imperial system and the recommendation of the Glycemic Index of each ingredients in the saucepan, they don't need to make the trip. Also, they can eliminate the congress who protects the people with money who do not care about the cost of one doctor or two, when they need.

The deficit we have, and I don't want to talk about the trillion"s" of US deficit. It's their problem and I don't want to help them to reduce it by buying our raw materials at lower prices and help the reduction process. We have and we lost Martin's system to be in the BLACK, as said by bankers. It's just a thought, nothing more.

Again, we are not collaborating to the real subject, and want to solve two nations problems. We two against 32 million other. Get some time and think about what system is better? Gil from the other end without malice.

Hi Steve,

I am one of the North-American people. We officially use the "metric sysytem". Yes, I am Canadian but I can use both systems without difficulties, and this is in my favour. When you know two systems, you are more knowledgeable. - One day an American told me that, and I am its believer, Gil.

I have felt for a long time that the U.S. must be a awful powerful country that they are able to hold back progress by not adopting the metric units as a standard.

Hi Phoenix911,

Eliminate the congress and you will evoluate like others did. Also, people don't like changes! Irrevelent if the change will produce positive and profits, people say no to changes. Wait and let grow your hair, something will happen soon! Ah, your hairs are already long enough, take the front, let grow your beard. Your spouse doesn't like it? Explain vigorously to her what means all these things for you and your nation, Gil.

Also, people don't like changes!

That is the biggest reason, and the imperial systems was and still is engrained deeply, that it takes generations to overcome.

Exactly! Hear the radio when they announce the temperature, 10*C or 50*F.

I remember, in the late 60s, in the North of Quebec, the temperature was -37*F. Today, they will tell you there is -37*C and the windchill factor indiquate -47*C. No more *F because they have to calculate the factor or they add 10*F as the other system.

The bigger is better! The small book about "Small is beautiful" doesn't sell well!

The American need to vote a President who announce, establish, and make legally exclusive to use the best system. Tell me your opinion about the suggestion made by Gil and I was not alone.

When I worked at the shipyard 15-20 years ago, they tried implementing metric or Dual Dimensioning because the military pushed for the metric standard.

So if an item had to be fabbed at say 12 mm, fabricator asked whats 12mm, other fabricator response was...oh....about 1/2". When I heard that, I knew it wasn't going to happen overnight.

It could really become a mess.

p911

I am a South African, schooled in Imperial and then further educated in Metric (SI).

South Africa made the change mandatory to a point where it was illegal to sell bilingual measuring instruments and it was not allowed after a certain period to publish figures in the press in both units. The results were startling. People changed very quickly, even the uneducated. We also metricated our monitory system, this too was easier than anyone thought possible, even in a third world country.

I still think of myself as six foot two, but spend all day doing engineering in whatever system is required, but mainly and very happily in SI.

My children have never had the misery of working in the imperial system and would not know what a foot was if it was not attached to a leg.

So generations - no. If the political will is there and people are open minded about the change then it can be done very quickly, albeit with some pain.

Steve,

We actually adopted the metric system here in the US in July, 1866. Apparently not all the newspapers picked up on the story. But, one day soon. Just you watch.

I recently learned that there are 320 poles in a mile!

In the eighteenth century a Surveyors Perambulator or Waywiser was a wheeled used to measure geodetic distances The wheel deameter was around 31-1/2 inches equating to a circumference around 8-1/4 feet. This meant that two revolutions was equal to one Pole (an olde Englishe measure of length and area)

Chris

I learned metric right along with the imperial stuff for the most part. I didn't need too but chose to anyway.

I think mainly in imperial for fast reference but I have no problem converting those estimates to metric if someone needs it. I have that same issue with everything in metric coming off as just too small or resulting in just too large of number to represent so many things.

My house is 70 feet long or 21.336 meters (thats too short)

My house is 70 feet long or 2133.6 centimeters (thats too long)

My pickup propane fuel tank holds 82 gallons or .31037 cubic meters. (thats too small)

My pickup propane fuel tank holds 82 gallons or 310.37 liters. (thats to big)

My point is the physical points of reference we grew up with are fixed into our minds early on. Once they are set its rather permanent. Anything else will just always seem a bit off in one way or another.

For engineering work I too learned both systems in college and I have no problem swiching back and forth..

It is much like learning a second language. Early in the proces it is a matter of translating everything as you speak or listen. As you become really proficient you start thinking in the second language and you are no long translating.

The same with units. After a year living here, I no longer think in terms of miles but rather Km and meters. I no longer think in psi but bars, and the nice relationship to atmospheric pressure makes bars easy.

I, too, learned the second language of metrics in college. And I used this second language as a research engineer every day, as a requirement of my job. It is not a difficult thing to do.

I know this is not what your post is about, but I do not buy this bs concept that it is easier to visualise feet and inches than meters and millimeters.

We all relate any system to things that we know. A very tall person is either 6'7 or 2 m depending on your terms of reference, and how many people's feet are 12 inches?

The vast majority of the world has absolutely no difficulty in visualising measures that are common to them in whatever system.

I just think it is time for the Us to wake up and implement what they have already agreed on.

I'm sure all of you use sites like this. I would be lost without them.

Hi Mareng,

I congratulate Adams to learn at least the first three numbers because Stalin in Russia, concidered three persons within 2 square metre as revolutionaries, and sent them immediately to Siberia, in the famous "Goulag". Sorry! Two person was a party meeting for Stalin. What was only one? When Stalin has something to tell Russians. Same numbers but different signification of those numbers. Also, one theory killed around 36 million people and the other creates unpunished murderers, disloyal bankers, and politicians who are looking for their future and forget our present. "With three words", Gil.

Hi Ronseto,

I need to disagree with your unability to see a "millimetres" or evaluate 1 "metre". I born and learn in schools the "Metric system" or MS without asking what's the "Imperial system" or IS! When I was around 30, I went to IS. Within a few months, I was able to work with it. Today, we turned back to my MS but I personally still use sometimes the IS because in certain occasions it's more practical for me, not better! If you have difficulties to see feets and/or metres or other units, you have some visual difficulties or attitude toward something which is not originally being American. Open mind works in any system, Gil.

I grew up in a metric system. Then I went to graduate engineering in the U.S. One of my first tasks was to design a liquid nitrogen glass dewar to contain, inside which a liquid helium container would be placed. The whole thing would then be placed betwen the poles of a huge electromagnet.

I did all the drawings in centimeters. The glass blower told me to change it to ft and inches. I did. Using 1 inch = 2.5 cm!

Disaster. At the critical points, the difference between 2.5 and 2.54 caused the whole arrangement to fail. Almost $1,000 gone.

My adviser took it gently. he said he made worse and costliest mistakes.

Its nice to have mistakes like that happen ............in school

Tell to your advisor that we have sliding roles and electronic calculators, plus when you are on the computer, everything is fantastic! I am not sarcastic!

In the old countries, those professions talk and use sophisticated unit systems, as the old Chinese. It's working well for them, and our Metric System works for billions. No negative thoughts about the Imperial System but don't mixed up, Gil.

Dear All,

When I posted my question re: metric vs Imperial (rather U.S. standard), I got many different responses, but none of them seemed to answer the original question 100%. I have worked in industry using both systems without a problem. I worked in shipyards on ships built in metric and U.S. systems. One metric ship I worked on had to have much of its steel replaced. Rather than import metric materials or have material milled to metric units to match the original construction, we choose to substitute material milled to U.S. specifications. We substituted the closest U.S. plate or shape for the metric plate or shape, but always on the high side. The transition was made without too much problem. When working on such ships, we used metrics for metric ships and U.S. for American ships except for the material substitutions mentioned above. The problem, as I have always seen it is, the mental visualization a worker has on the job. We don't expect a shipyard worker to be able to visualize in both systems, only the one he is schooled in. If I tell a worker for example; move that pump 6" to the left, he can visualize that, but if I tell him; move it 150 mm to the left, he cannot visualize the distance in his mind. He would have to convert by means of a calculator or chart for the U.S. equivalent. Not impossible, but an expenditure of precious time and possible error. Working on a ship built in metrics poses problems for U.S. workers and visa versa. As I said, I have no problem with either system, "on paper", but in the real world of schedules and communication, information needs to be conveyed speedily without errors creeping in.

For my Canadian friends (if I have any), I worked as a structural engineer in the Mil Davie shipyard in Luzon, Quebec, Canada on the Tribal class frigate overhaul. Metrics was not a problem for me. Later I worked in shipyards in the U.S. in both systems.

The U.S. (or English) system is not going away any time soon. I personally would not embrace metrics, but I do think that the future generation should be brought up in metrics. I am 100% comfortable with the U.S. system. I know a liter of milk is smaller than a quart of milk, but how much smaller? An amount I cannot visualize without doing a conversion. That takes time and is not always practical. If I'm going through the checkout line at my super Walmart, that is not the time to figure out if three 250 gram cans of corn cost more or less than one 15 oz can of corn.

For the sake of being able to read a topic on this forum through without having to convert units, software that would be embedded in the program could change the units displayed. I know it can be done. There are many sites that you can go to on the web where the viewer is prompted for language. Metric/U.S. units are no different.

"I have worked in industry using both systems without a problem. "

Sounds like things worked out for you pretty well. The NASA engineers however who lost a $125 million Mars probe didn't fare so well.

"(CNN) -- NASA lost a $125 million Mars orbiter because a Lockheed Martin engineering team used English units of measurement while the agency's team used the more conventional metric system for a key spacecraft operation,"

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9909/30/mars.metric.02/

And although the Gimli Glider landed without any serious injuries or deaths I doubt the passangers would say it was "without problems"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

As far as answering your post of having software to recognize or convert.....My answer is Why?

As you know as engineers or engineering background, we realize these are just units of measurement.

Metrics was not a problem for me. Later I worked in shipyards in the U.S. in both systems.

How was the yard workers such as fabricators, sheetmetal, carpentry, embracing it. My experience was they relied on lead-men and knowledgeable co-workers to help them through.

I don't believe either standards were a problem at the engineering level, As long as each were working on the same units of measurement.

p911

Hi Ronseto,

One important thing; there are no 100% answer to any question. I personally born "Metric System" but at least 80% of it I never used or will never use, so I really don't know. I am honest with you and I think everyone is the same. We know what we use. That's all!

Errors come when the two systems are mixed. My suggestion is to use the system you want but use only one and forget the second.

I have a small booklet of conversion from one to the another and vice-versa, but I don't use for years. I use only one, the "Metric System" and sometimes the another too. For example, all my correspondance, cost calculation are in "Metric System" but when I calculate the volume of a coating, paint, stain or sealer, I use the "Imperial System". I adopted the second system for only that particular exercize and stay with it because my mind is made with it and it's easy and working well.

Also, the answers are dispersed and /or diluted between sentences, paragraphs, and comments because after a certain time, we talk about others uncorrect or out of logic answers, or we defend our opinions, or the worsth, we attack others comments or personality.

All these are only opinion and we have to take them us is, filter it, accept it, and most of the time, forget it.

I think you have friends or at least one in Canada, but I am not at the Lauzon, Quebec shipyard but fluently speak both language. I was a few times in New Orleans before the disaster, and I hope you are not suffered of it. Have a nice weekend, Gil.