Motion Detection Inside Confined Spaces

If they are busy doing something else they won't be paying attention to the most important job, WATCHING THE GUY IN THE VESSEL and they will be delayed getting to him when seconds count. And any motion sensor is going to throw false alarms once in a while if the guy doesn't move around much, and then the guy that is monitoring the alarm will get desensitized to the alarm. This is a recipe for disaster.

DO NOT DO THIS!

Confined space training and entry procedures exist for a reason. I for one will not help you circumvent them on a public forum. Have a nice day.

So you want a device that can detect someone that is in distress, come to their aid, pull them out, possibly administer first aid and call for help. There is no device better then a man standing watch. Even where heart monitors are used someone is in attendance. Life is too precious to think that the person in attendance as a safety watch can be doing something else. His full attention needs to be on the person he is there to watch.

If Jordanian and local governments don't have regulations covering this, they should.

Your insurance company will care too. And finally, your conscience may even get into the act. How willing are you to risk someone else's life to save a buck?

Let me quote, "we are talking about life, so kindly suggest excellent manufacturer only. Regards"

Goodbye.

Speaking as one who has 1) trained hundreds of people in Confined Space Operations and Rescue 2) been a CS attendant at times 3) Done many CS entries and 4) been the rescuer to CS emergencies- There is nothing more important than the life and health of the CS entrant and that can only be accomplished by the attention of another trained human being. Murphy's Law is very prevalent in CS situations, if it can go wrong it will.

Would you like to be the one who had to inform a family that their husband/father/mother/son/daughter/sister/brother died because you used a piece of equipment that failed to provide necessary rescue notification? Motion Detectors are not fool proof.

In my career in the Chemical Industry Safety and Emergency Response I once gave a substantial safety incentive award ($) to an maintenance mechanic who was doing a task requiring him to be a CS attendant. He had a sudden urge to run to the mens room but didn't because the entrant couldn't get out of the vessel in time. Needless to say he crapped in his pants there but the entrant's safety was not compromised. First and only time I ever gave a "dirty diaper" award.

The odds of a MILLION to 1 are great, unless you are the 1!

PASS alarms are only good if they are turned on and there is someone there to hear it. The most frequent problems with the stand alone PASS units are that they are not turned on or the batteries are dead. That's why many Self Contained Breathing Apparatus (SCBA) manufacturers such as Scott and MSA have incorporated them as an integral part of there SCBA packs. The problem with that is the firefighter may not be wearing one. (I know from experience, I'm the chief of the local fire dept)

The firefighter solution to reduce the odds is to use the "buddy" system. The confined space solution to reduce the odds is to use the "qualified attendant" system.

I suggest that anyone interested in Confined Space read the following links:

http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9797

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/confinedspaces/recognition.html

also read the preamble to USA 29CFR1910.146 the confined space regulation. It gives the justification and need for the law.

Is there a motion detector or some easy portable device to help alternate the attendant job?

No, and the reason for that is, that person can determine that there is an issue/problem such as a person surcoming to noxious gases. A motion detector is a discrete sensor (1's and 0's) that is all. If a person is having difficulties exiting the enclosed area and can, passing out (which can happen very quickly). you do not know if he passed out, or left the area. And time is of the essence. And it is that watcher/spotters job and only his job, no other distractions. A life is not to be looked at as a consumable or disposable.

Any safety procedures such as OSHA, requires a watcher/spotter for working in confined area. And if your country does not have it, I believe it does because you already have a spotter, don't push it....or look at it this way.......would you go into a confined area without a spotter, because that is essentially what you'll be doing?

p911

Hey Sawalha! Come back here. Sit down.

Understand this: The attendant's job is to monitor the ENTIRE situation that is involving the entrants. That not only includes keeping an eye and ear on the entrants themselves, but assuring that nothing is around that will hinder potential rescue such as a truck blocking the access, or something being knocked over that could fall in or block the hole, chatting with curious passersby (the area should be roped off) as well as immediate access to rescue devices (hoist, first aid kit, etc.), communication for medical or other aid, and you know what else? NO ONE KNOWS! Anything unexpected can happen at any time and in seconds! You, the attendant, has to be there at ALL TIMES monitoring AND trying to anticipate anything that could happen. Alert and focused, not reading, doing your homework, texting the C4 site or chatting on a cellphone. Anything less is irresponsible, criminal and libelious.

As someone who has been qualified and worked both ends of confined spaces the reason for the regulations become very clear when you find yourself in a situation that you are the one at risk. I worked at a nuclear power plant at one time that did not have clothing for welders to wear. The coveralls we uses were simple cotton with no starch to add to the flame resistance. Any welder will tell you that one problem you have while welding is that you get tunnel vision. I have been rescued several times from what could have been a serious burn when the sparks from the welding started my clothing on fire. This has happened to almost every welder at some time or other but if you are in a small and confined space it can happen very quickly and you are not aware of it until it is almost too late. This is a simple real world example of an attendant saving someone. In most cases it was just to yell and inform me that I was on fire. But in one case the clothing was old and worn and the attendant used the fire extinguisher or I would have been very severely burned. After this incident we got them to get welder friendly clothing with built in fire retardant and flame resistance.

Rich Hurd

Hey Sawalha! Come back here. Sit down.

Understand this: The attendant's job is to monitor the ENTIRE situation that is involving the entrants. That not only includes keeping an eye and ear on the entrants themselves, but assuring that nothing is around that will hinder potential rescue such as a truck blocking the access, or something being knocked over that could fall in or block the hole, chatting with curious passersby (the area should be roped off) as well as immediate access to rescue devices (hoist, first aid kit, etc.), communication for medical or other aid, and you know what else? NO ONE KNOWS! Anything unexpected can happen at any time and in seconds! You, the attendant, has to be there at ALL TIMES monitoring AND trying to anticipate anything that could happen. Alert and focused, not reading, doing your homework, texting the C4 site or chatting on a cellphone. Anything less is irresponsible, criminal and libelious.