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Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/14/2010 9:42 PM

I know that I do not own the forum, am allowed to participate at the risk of offending someone & getting booted, and share my intuitive sense as often as I see fit.

We proudly beat our chests, proclaim that we want to encourage young persons to enter the myriad of fields we represent, teach them, and mentor them.

But, too often, we say, it is useless, these kids show no inclination to learn.

So, that said, I sensed that this particular question was legitimate, as did Jaxy (or so it seems)

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/53299/What-Shape-Would-Be-Most-Aerodynamic-When-Building-a-Dragster-Race-Car

Considering the quality of the public school system, the poor teaching of the English Language, and not allowing the social skills we were taught and practiced 50 years or so ago, is it not possible that this child was never taught to structure a comment that would pass muster here. I think the initiative to search answers here shows more integrity than some of the "adult" members from all countries who pose unanswerable questions

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Anonymous Poster
#1

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 9:58 PM

There are homeworks and there are homeworks.

This unfortunately was not that homework.

I have earlier also discussed this matter, and unfortunately some one reports it as homework, and admin closes it without much reflection it seems.

But it is not their fault. To think about, there are only a few handful admins running the site. They may not have much time to go through the gist.

May be like off topic, we should gather a few votes to declare it as the milder offence (like homework). Of course the stronger offences should be immediately closed (political, religious,...)

This thread is one where the CR4 could have used its brain since the topic is a bit complex for a school kid, we don't expect one of that age to run CFD do we?

After all he is not asking us to design his car, just some ideas of the shape.

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Guru

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 10:08 PM

I so concur, the political, religious, and bigotry of nationalities must be a high priority.

My believes in the above 3 our mine, and I chose long ago not to proselytize or expound on any of them. Those who do in a forum such as CR4 should be banned in my opinion. There are groups that are designed at different levels to handle all types of these comments.

Homework questions should be encouraged in a off topic like consensus of the forum as a whole, and the potential libelous posts should be closed first.

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#3

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 10:18 PM

The thread in question should not have been closed, and could have been a good learning opportunity for the student. In the past, I don't think that admin formally closed threads that seemed to be homework, probably because it can be hard to discriminate between homework, uninformed posters, lazy engineers, etc. I can't see any need at all to close a thread because it appears to be homework. Most members know that we don't, in general, simply supply answers to answer homework questions, but many of us think that helping a student with concepts can be beneficial.

There have been many threads that are much more obviously homework questions that have not been closed.

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#4

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 10:50 PM

I would favor for "homework" questions to remain alive a little longer. To questions of that nature, I try to provide hints or sketchy answers that don't give the game away, but try to illustrate and elicit an engineering thought process.

Similar for some of the over unity stuff; I would rather whack at such nonsense for a while rather than just have it disappear.

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Guru

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#5
In reply to #4

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 10:57 PM

Asking more questions instead of quickly answering has always been my style and I love it.

By asking, I have found the creative juices are kick started, more profound questions & thoughts come from the student, and answers are found and more easily understood.

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#6

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 11:06 PM

If a request comes in asking for leads as to how to do the homework, it should be permitted, if it is just an iteration of the homework question it should get the boot.

Perhaps it should only get the boot if it logs up a certain number of reports.

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Anonymous Poster
#7

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 11:14 PM

And here is another one

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/53290/help

here too, we need not have solved the question, just tried to explain the question.

I have (during my long ago junior days, when I had free time) tried to explain things to students, usually my colleagues offsprings. And my experience shows (may be mistakenly) usually the quality of professors are not the same everywhere. A lot of them do not have their own concept clear/are unable to explain the things clearly to greenhorns.

May be that's where we can step in.

Again it is not solving the question that should be resorted to (we must not be too kind - which a few of our fellow members are unfortunately too quick at and that is where it is really solving the homework) - we should give them directions, food for thought and course corrections. Let them solve their problem for themselves.

Should we ask the admin to start a homework help section? with clear rules, no maths help.

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#8

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/14/2010 11:28 PM

Here is a "cute" thought, why not have a forum devoted to "Homework". It could be tucked into a corner of General. That way the student or others would have a sanctioned area to ask those questions. It would then be up to other members whether (as they do now) they participate or flame the OP of the homework question. and Mods could "drop" those posts that are misplaced elsewhere there.

I'm a firm believer of encouraging technically inquisitive minds. There is precious little active resources available. Yes the interweb is a vast repository (suppository?)but it's not nurturing, and while the information might be blatantly obvious, the knowledge of how to apply it may not be.

As for the "drag racer" post, yup he wasn't asking us to design it for him(her) but to point him (her) in an enlightened direction.

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#9

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 12:36 AM

I have noticed a shift within the past several months that, whenever a reply to an obviously or even not-so-obviously homework question mentions the word HOMEWORK, it is shut down rather quickly, even though the replyer did not give the answer.

The replyer quite often has asked questions that are intended to encourage the OP to think about what they are asking and try to think about what exactly they are lacking to answer the problem. Interested, I will then scroll down to see if the OP has given some feedback only to read the red lettering saying the post has been closed.

I believe that most of the common population here have the sense to lead the students to solutions rather than just hand them over.

Several years ago here, I was actually called a "dum-dum head" for not forking over an answer to an obvious homework question. I don't doubt that at present, I would have the support of most current members should such a situation arise again.

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 1:06 AM

Sure, one can establish a mindless searchbot that blasts away alleged "homework," even if closer examination would disclose otherwise. AU: artificial unintelligence.

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#13
In reply to #10

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 7:08 AM

Do you really think that's what is happening here?

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#15
In reply to #13

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 10:33 AM

I'm not absolutely certain, but sometimes it has seemed that way.

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 10:43 AM

Just to clarify... Some may already know this, but there have been a couple of new moderators on the scene. See SavvyExacta's comment here. Some have moderated before and know which homework questions to let slide, mark so that they don't show up in the digest, or close. But there are other moderators who are not as experienced and may at times prematurely close threads without properly thinking about the discussion it can create.

I am sure that many CR4ers have come across blatant homework questions that is just someone looking for answers. Those will be closed. Oftentimes, it is a judgment call on the part of the moderator during that time slot as to which are kept or tossed. These judgment calls will get better with time and experience, so keep bearing with the 'newbies'. They are only trying to keep the annoying posters away and in doing so, unfortunately some innocents are harmed in the process.

I am afraid I have spoken too much.

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#23
In reply to #16

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 10:36 PM

I am afraid I have spoken too much.

I don't think the PTB will have to kill you, but "loose lips [CAN] sink ships"!

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#11

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 5:01 AM

There are two types of consulting engineers

1) get consulted by others

2) consults others.

My concern is that the student asking CR4 to do his homework will end up being no 2.

BUT is that really that bad ?

The lazy, manipulative slave-driver may end up as the head of a group and buy the lacking knowledge and experience by suppling job opportunities to clever backroom guys.

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#12

Re: Are all "homework" questions invalid?

04/15/2010 6:15 AM

In the case of kayla92509, and others who are not too lazy to register, there is nothing keeping any of us from helping by way of a PM.

Or, perhaps if you think the question is legitimate you should petition Admin. to re-open the thread.

I am intolerant of lazy people asking others to do their thinking for them, and have been sent to the "naughty step" by Admin for some of my comments. But, in this particular case, I agree that the thread should have been allowed to run it's course.

LL

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#14

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 9:56 AM

I just wanted to point out that the thread is back on track. I think that the moderators/admins are going to get together and be slightly more lenient for CR4ers who take the time to register and ask their question. Surely they show more dedication to learning than the 'guests' who post. This is not always the case, but most of the time, it is.

So if you had an idea for making a Drag Car, head over there and give him/her your suggestions so that she/he may learn!

For future reference, if you ever see a post that has been closed unjustly, do not hesitate to consider reporting the thread. This doesn't guarantee that it will be reopened, but it does bring it to the moderators attention.

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Anonymous Poster
#17
In reply to #14

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 10:49 AM

Please ask whether the Administrators would allow contributors who have been banned; their registration revoked, to get a second chance. Perhaps going into the witness protection program under another pseudonym after a period of 5 to 10 years (or less).

Otherwise they may participate only as guests.

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#18
In reply to #17

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 10:53 AM

Usually, contributors are only banned if the contribute one of the following:

  • Spam
  • Mayhem (Provide no constructive answers)
  • Are aggressive toward other people on the forum

People who have been banned can try emailing the CR4Admin. Otherwise, there is not much else that can be done, unless you want to try registering under a different email.

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Anonymous Poster
#19
In reply to #18

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 11:14 AM

The administration at the referenced link refuses to discuss the problem or return inquiries; thus a standoff after several years.

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#20
In reply to #19

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 11:17 AM

I am afraid that your only bet at this point is to make a new name for yourself and start fresh. You will have to use a different email though. Just make sure that when/if you do, you don't repeat the same mistakes you did the first time.

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Anonymous Poster
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 11:26 AM

I didn't make any mistakes the first time. I reported someone who had threatened me. It was quite upsetting and humiliating. I guess that is your choice to make.

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#22

Re: Are All "Homework" Questions Invalid?

04/15/2010 12:23 PM

Awhile back I posted an obvious Homework question as a "Guest" parodying a certain "voice" common to such questions. I got such great answers I nearly felt bad about my practical joke. That particular Thread was How to Build a Bridge from London to New York.

I was forced to give a GA and implore others to give them due to the inventive quality of the freely given answer, plus my joke turned around on myself so that I was further intrigued by possibilities, that in fact when I made up the assignment I thought would be impossible to achieve.

So due to my experiment, I am all for Homework questions from youth, and when judging such events would be inclined towards asking, "What Harm does it do?"

We are not forced to answer.

I think the new administration may be happier if they sort of roll with some of these things.

And really I am glad that Jack of all Trades or got the (4) GA votes for his fine answer to my Homework assignment.

Transcendia.org

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