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Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/15/2010 5:53 AM

I know this has been asked before but!!

I replaced my fridge after 40 years and inherited a lot of trouble (The old fridge is still working in the recipient's home. should I claim it back?)

The new one (auto defrost) develop a glacier about 150mm wide 15mm thick within 2 weeks.

I had the suppler out here and looked at it at home and in the shop and after the initial

The outlet is blocked, not level , You open it to frequently for beer etc they now claim it is fine.

My son bought the same model about the same time complete with the same symptoms.

The warranty is gone by now and I plan to replace it.

My question is : would a fridge designed for CFC not show the symptoms if filled with a more (or less) efficient gas?

Urgent :- before I buy another trouble box.

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Guru
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#1

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 5:59 AM

Dehumidify the air near the evaporator coils.

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 6:26 AM

SA is rather arid without humidity problems but my wife believes food should be cooked (a pot full of water and the plate set at high)

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#3

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 8:00 AM

Hi Hendrik,

All the frost-free reefers I ever worked on had a timer that turned on a heating element 2 or 3 times a day to keep ice from building up. If your defrost works on the same principle, maybe it's the element or the timer.

Mike

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#4

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 8:28 AM

<...more (or less) efficient gas...>

There's no such thing. It is the thermodynamic process that determines the efficiency and the amount of moisture in the air that determines the glacier size, although, clearly, if the thing isn't auto-defrosting then there is something wrong with the facilities that provide auto-defrost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerants

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-defrost

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#5

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 9:02 AM

The whole concept of auto defrost is seriously flawed. It was prob' dreamed up by a marketing guy.
My previous fridge was 'auto defrost' complete $hite.
Hmmm... we'll let it warm up a bit just to melt the ice a little bit, but not enough to warm the food, so the ice will turn into water, run two inches and then turn into ice again forming the aforementioned glacier.
To design a system which actually worked would involve loads of valves, shutters, fans, insulation, heaters, maybe a pump and some sensible drainage... no way Jose.
Lets put a nice shiny badge on it, that'll work...
Del

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#21
In reply to #5

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/16/2010 8:43 PM

Sorry Del:

Auto defrost or frost free has successfully been working since the sixties. There are several variations on it, but todays standard, a run of the mill domestic refrigerator uses the following system.

The evaporator coil is in the freezer section, and a fan is used to push cold air in to the refrigerator section. The evaporator coil is usually at the back or the bottom of the freezer section, behind a cover plate. The defrost system consists of a heater embedded in the evaporator, a timer and a high temperature limit or a termination sensor. Other items such as drain pan and drain tube heaters may be used. Approximately every six hours the timer will initiate the defrost cycle. The fan and compressor will stop and the heater will come on. After approximately 21 minutes the timer will revert back to the refrigeration cycle. The high limit will prevent over heating during the defrost cycle. Gravity takes the water away and it is evaporated by the compressor heat or an other method. This system has worked well over all these years and now has been refined by the use of microprocessor's.

The glacier problem (hard ice build up over time) could be result of the following:

-failed drain heater

-failed drain pan heater

-plugged drain

Note: During a labour dispute many years ago, a manufacturer had a sabotage problem on the production line. Some one was using sealing putty to partially plug the defrost drain on frost free refrigerators coming off the line. This affected over 10,000 refrigerators for several years.

Frost free works and works well. Before you buy, some home work is required.

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#6

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 9:50 AM

The only completely frost free freezer I had was many years back. I can't remember the manufacturer. I suspect that they did they're trick by a modest vacuum pump on the freezer compartment. My clues that this was their method was that it was awkward to open the door. When the door did open, a noticeable "thwaw" was heard that I though was air rushing in. The drawback of this freezer was making ice cubes. If you didn't use the ice in the cube tray within the week you put the water in, the ice just sublimed away.

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#7

Re: Ice glacier in fridge

04/15/2010 3:51 PM

I have the same fridge or similar. So called "frost free" model, it actually requires defrosting more often than any conventional type I've ever owned.

The one I have depends on circulating cold air from the freezer area to cool the fridge. So once the frost has built up in BEHIND the casing in the vent area, no air circulates and the fridge becomes warm and the food of course spoils.

You mention pots with water in them. This is part of the frost-free deal: the machine will suck moisture out of anything in the fridge section, and this is where the glacier comes from to clog the vents. There's actually a line somewhere in the manual that suggests you don't put uncovered food in it, and this is sadly the only way it will work for longer than a few weeks without needing a defrost.

In fact I would swear that my fridge runs as a 'dehumidifier' rather than on temperature sensor. To get it to run continually, just put an open pan of liquid or can of juice or (god help us) an unprotected fruit or vegetable in it, and it will sense that the moisture source is there and just suck and suck until....

Yes, that's right, the fridge really sucks.

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#8

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/15/2010 10:07 PM

Also check the door gaskets for good sealing; that would be another source of moisture infiltration.

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#19
In reply to #8

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 9:51 AM

Ga from me for a great tip.

On the same theme I would suggest that the OP checks to see if the floor is really flat and level and that the fridge is not sitting badly, twisting the frame slightly and letting air leak in somehow......

if the door opens real easy, this suggests a substantial leak somewhere....

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#9

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/15/2010 10:31 PM

I had exactly the same, engineer after engineer with all sorts of things wrong with my house etc, until my father in law turned up one day and turned the control down to medium and told us to get a fridge thermometer, its been fine ever since ! and we live in a high humidity area and need beer from the fridge constantly !

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#10
In reply to #9

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 2:44 AM

Just a minor edit... if you'll excuse me

had exactly the same, engineer after engineer "barely competent fitter" after "ill trained failed engineer" with all sorts of things wrong with my house etc, until my father in law turned up one day and turned the control down to medium and told us to get a fridge thermometer, its been fine ever since ! and we live in a high humidity area and need beer from the fridge constantly !


I abhor the miss use of the term engineer, that's why many of us here are patronised by the likes of accountants and admin staff and underpaid.
Del

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 4:05 AM

Del,

I have been a qualified Engineer for over 50 years and I still hate the misuse, in the UK, of the word to represent anyone who is really a technician, a fitter,and so on.

The issue has never been taken up by our political masters!

Thanks, you got a GA out of that comment!!

Sleepy

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#11

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 4:03 AM

Most likely the defrost timer is the problem. It is usually located in the back of the unit near the compressor. They usually have a screw slot or a slotted shaft protruding from it. When the compressor is on turn the shaft until the compressor shuts off - wait for an hour or so then turn it until the compressor starts. If the unit has defrosted the timer is bad or has no power to it. Be sure to check the drip pan for water it could overflow if the glacier especially large. Edmund

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#13

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 7:12 AM

Hi Hendrik,

I have Whirlpool Fridge and no problems at all. Can you tell us which make you are struck up now?.Is it made made in China?.

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#14

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 7:40 AM

We located the cause of the problem by installing a TV camera in the freezer. We found that ice plugging the freezer drains initiated the problem. A simple and effective solution was to install a thin walled teflon coated aluminum drain tube with the outlet end cut at an angle. This provided positive draining and the surface was not wetted during thaw cycles.

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#15
In reply to #14

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 7:43 AM

Isn't the manufacturer s'posed to do that stuff.
Del

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#16
In reply to #15

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 7:57 AM

Del,

Yes they are! At the time, I worked for the manufacturer, every technician was supplied these drain tubes in his warranty repair kit.

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#20
In reply to #14

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 5:26 PM

Welderman,

Did you notice if the light went out???

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#17

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 8:10 AM

Five or six folks in my sub development had a similar problem with a particular model. The manufacturer insisted a heating element be put on the condenser to melt the ice away. That fix worked for about six months. Ditched the old one, got a different brand and have had no troubles since. Its not the refrigerant, its the design of the product. Demand satisfaction. With a bit of complaining we got about half our money back despite being out of warranty. Guess the threat of class action is enough to get some action. Good luck.

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#18

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 8:31 AM

Make sure the drain isn't clogged and that the water can reach the drain. Most are designed if they are level the defrosted ice/water will run to the drain. But if they are assembled wrong the water may not reach the drain thus when the defrost shuts off the accumulated water refreezes inside of the freezer instead of draining to the drip pan located under the frig. The drain line may have been pinched shut during assembly too. Also if you have lots of smaller packages in the freezer they may not be laying on the little ridges built into the floor of the freezer and thus blocking the water flow to the drain.

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#22

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 9:24 PM

Just another thought, some models have a circulating fan, if it freezes or is blocked, for example by stacking food too high it can cause a freezing problem.

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#23

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/16/2010 10:05 PM

My basement chest freezer has a sliver of a gasket leak on one edge. After a couple of years we get a couple of pounds of ice below the leak. I defrost every 2 or 3 years. We just pack all the food into boxes and take it to the summer car, which is outdoors at -30C. No spoilage or rush melting the ice dam. We then go outside to sort and catalog the food before putting it away. Like having a huge walk-in backup freezer for 2 months a year.

My mom's fridge failed to drain, years ago, but improving the drain path fixed it permanently.

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#24

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/17/2010 7:41 AM

Reply to all

Make : Whirlpool

Drainage channel : Open , In even enlarged it to 25mm (just kidding)

Seals : good.

Set at minimum.

Beer : Consumption reduced to save for new fridge.

. . . . . . . OK OK OK OK

Maybe I should disable the sensors , timers , heaters etc and manually control it.

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/17/2010 10:43 AM

Before you forgo your usual beer consumption and or modify your existing refrigerator. Please read my previous posting. There is not a whole lot to a frost free refrigerator parts wise. As ice build up is your problem you can exclude the refrigeration system from the problem. There should be a simple wiring diagram some where on the refrigerator. If not than you might be able to download it. That and a volt/ ohm/ amp meter will rule out anything electrical.

I had a three door Whirlpool frost free for over 25 years and even with bad door gaskets it did not ice up. Three years ago after researching refrigerators I choose an LG. NOT MADE IN CHINA. Very pleased with the fit and finish, power consumption and noise level.

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#27
In reply to #25

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/17/2010 5:45 PM

With two lower back fusions I am not to keen to do that but I will ask my Garden Engineer for assistance. (Domestic Servant - he can fix anything with with a plier and piece of wire)

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#26
In reply to #24

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/17/2010 5:44 PM

You need to be patient and go step by step in checking your fridge if you want to do the job yourself.

As mentioned in a previous reply : There is a fan that circulates air fromthe freezer compartment to the fridge compartment. CHECK THAT IT IS WORKING CORRETLY BY LISTENING AT IT IMMEDIATELY YOU OPEN THE FREEZER!

If the fan is not working, then find out if something is blocking the blades (Ice formation arround it). If not, then it needs replacement...

Fan OK? Then check if a timer is fitted at the back somewhere and that it is working: Test by rotating its knob to initiate a defrost cycle (Comppressor = oFF, Fan = OFF, and a heating cable comes on to melt the ice formed in the freezer: use an amp meter to see if a current is drawn during the defrost cycle you just initiated)

The Heating element that looks, sometimes, like a cable or tube wound arround the evaporator, has a thermostat switch that usually is at the point where the electric cable connects to the heater. It is very slim and cylindrical. It can easily be missed out for a normal connector. IF THE HEATER IS NOT DRAWING ANY CURRENT DURING DEFROST CYCLE, THEN THIS THERMOSTAT IS FAULTY AND OPEN CIRCUIT. No heating means no defrosting of the accumulated ice, which will build up and block the fan blades whic in turn stops cooling the fridge compartment hence your problem.

The drain blocking syndrome is also a point to check and it is normally easy to check and clear. if all is OK with the heating cycle, usually the drain will give no much problem unless blocke by a foreing body, not ice! Ice is the symptom of the problem.

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#28
In reply to #24

Re: Ice Glacier in Fridge

04/17/2010 5:52 PM

Im a appliance tech., read and follow Icarus directions , he is on the mark .

If you have ice build up , these are the reasons why ;

1) Defective defrost timer .

2) Defective defrost heater element .

3) Very bad door seals or warped door.

4) Plugged drain line .

5) Some poorly designed units have the heater element mounted to high above the drain tray and although there is nothing wrong with the defrost system itself , ice will accumulate in the drain hole in the tray and prevent the water from draining out . This water will refreeze after the defrost cycle and ice will pile up in the tray.

Let us know if you need help with checking the above .

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