Washing Machine Motor to Drive a Transfer Water Pump

The original poster just needs to check that the lift available from the submersible pump is greater than the difference in elevation between the water surface in the creek and the hose discharge point, so as to select the correct pump.

One more thought, you may want to check local regulations, and/or be very covert with your idea. Some places will throw you in jail for the rest of your life for sucking water out of a creek. There might be some kind of endangered bacteria in there.

You must check your local statutes about how much, if any, water you are permitted to draw out of a creek. Remember, water rights and usage have started full scale wars between countries. You can loose many times the money you thought you were saving, your property and with the possibility of unstable people downstream, even your life if you take this solipsist's view to mess with a resource that transits your property.

Think of it this way, what if one of your neighbors upstream of you wanted to take half of the water from this stream to water their farm. Everybody downstream would only get half of the existing water. But you're certain that you won't need more than 1% of the stream for your lawn, nobody downstream of you will even notice the loss you think. Well if 100 people upstream of you only took 1% of the water flowing by them then with X(0)=1.0000 and X(n)=X(n-1)*0.9900 then X(100)=0.3697. You would be only getting about one third of your stream flow because 100 people upstream started taking an apparent insignificant fraction.

Now, regardless of how much or little water you actually take out of this stream, when a drought in your area happens you will be blamed with killing the stream. That is unless you can prove that your irrigation system has met the local regulations and that since the drought was declared, your watering system has been disabled. You don't want to be blamed for creating the parallel tragedy of the Aral Sea just for some non-edible decorative crop.

Hum, didn't consider that pulling a water from the creak would be illegal ... but then considering that our county (Gwinnett) is draining an entire lake (Lanier) to support the sprawl that placed us #1 in the nation throughout the 90's, legally.... I am sure it is illegal ... gosh, maybe having a vegetable garden is illegal too.

That said, I thought that I could run garden hose to the creak (3x50') with a intake filter of some sort and have a transfer pump (plugged into the outdoor receptacle) that would pull it up when need.

I found, on Amazon, a Wayne PC4 1/2 HP 115-Volt Transfer Water Pump, Cast Iron for $125 but I though that I could use the washing machine motor for something...

Thanks for all the good feedback.

Remember, it is much more difficult to pull water than it is to push it. You can only lift water 33 feet by suction. I realize you're not going 33", but you need the pump in the water. And centrifugal pumps like a flooded intake. You would need a foot valve and no leaks in the suction side of this if the pump is at the top.

You cannot do this with a washer pump.

Try the Harbor Freight pump with a foot valve. Don't forget to prime the pump first time.

If you go ahead with your plans, check Harbor Freight - they have some low cost pumps.

If you have a 4% rise that's 18 feet of head you will need to overcome. I don't think a washer pump will push water that far. Try it. Climb up to the peak of your house and hook a hose on at the top of the roof peak. Then hook it to your pump and turn it on.

Depends how much water you want to pump, I guess.

I'd go with kramarat"s advice.

It sounds like a neat little project, so long as you stay within legal boundaries regarding use of natural waters for irrigation, health codes, zoning codes, housing codes, electrical codes, etc.

I don't have any particular design because I don't know what kind of motor or pump you're using, shaft sizes of each, or other information. From your description, it appears that what you're looking for is a coupling of some kind, like these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupling

http://motorcoupling.net/

You'll also need some means of mounting the motor and pump in close proximity and aligned to each other, which means building a support of some kind, along with an enclosure to weather-proof it.

I'm not trying to dissuade you because I think it's a neat idea and I'm as big a fan of MacGyvering as the next guy. But speaking realistically, after you add up the costs it might be cheaper to go down to Harbor Freight or a farm supply place and buy a pump with the specific flow and pressure rates you need.

Logan

fdoamerica, good morning from Texas!

It took me so long to type my response that the other guys beat me to it! I agree wholeheartedly with their responses, especially the part about staying legal. That's why when I retire I'm gonna try and find a place where common sense is the primary residency requirement.

Logan

Legality/code issues aside, your project will need at least 450' wire and hose/pipe. Seems like the budget might be able to handle a real pump. Something like this

http://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-clear-water-pump-1479.html

will be easier to install and more reliable than the washing machine motor rig.

If a creek is nearby, your water table might be close to the surface. If the soil is not too hard, you might be able to hand drill a well and drive a point into the water table. If this is legal, now you will get bacteria free water from your property, close to the house. The electric loss will be much better, and you can put it all in a dog house to hide it from view.

You can rent well drills, manual or gas. Driving a point is easy, rent the driver and pipe cap. A good cardio workout.

If it is a 4% slope, the lift is 18 feet, which is feasible with a self-priming pump at the upper (house) end. In that case, it can be indoors without need for waterproofing.

If it is a 4° grade, the lift is 30.8 feet. This is theoretically possible, but I don't know if any economical pumps are rated for this.

A washing machine pump probably couldn't achieve this much head, but such a motor (~1/2 hp?) could be used to drive a decent pump. If the pump has to be located at the creek end, making it waterproof will probably cost more than a submersible pump.

I don't know if your sewer district would allow you to meter the irrigation water and deduct it from the water going to sewage.

From a purely technical approach and from my own personal experience from about 40 years ago--> YES but in your situation extremely expensive and bothersome.

Most washing machine pumps are sized to only pump at a max of about 5 psi (if even that high) at the highest and not very high capacities (gpm). They are also not self priming since they are at the lowest point of the system. One possible benefit is that they usually have substantial clearances so they won't jamb on lint or small particles. The motors are usually just enough to get the job done with no power to spare. These pumps are really basically recirculation pumps, not much more.

If you were to find a suitable motor, drive coupling, mounting stand, foot valve with strainer, suction piping, discharge piping, etc. you will get water but at an extremely slow rate if any at all because of the elevation requirement and the friction of the discharge hose/piping.

About 40 years ago I cannabilized my mother's old washer and made a utility pump out of it. Great for pumping out holes less than 2 ft deep but not more than 2 ft above the pump. Because of its large clearances it was great for starting syphons and just letting the water flow through it after shutting down the power.

Still have the pump in the garage attic. Hardly gets used but I love it for sentimental reasons therefore I can't bear to junk it.

For your needs don't try sump pumps, they don't have enough pressure capacity and also have large clearances. From my experiences I would prefer a ground mounted centrifugal pump with the appropriate suction piping of strainer, check/foot valve, union and suitable discharge piping. Your height and total discharge run will require it. I prefer ground mounted vs. submersible since it is much easier to work on and to visually observe.

GOOD LUCK

I like your thinking... I was raised by a frugal father who thought there was a second or third use for everything ... thus I asked about the washing machine motor... I was thinking about the motor not the pump part, but then I found another use. Thanks. There is a $29.95 transfer pump that I was refered to ... probably my best option.

A teacher asks her class, "If there are five birds sitting on a fence and you shoot one of them, how many will be left?" She calls on little Johnny.
"None, they all fly away with the first gunshot."
The teacher replies, "The correct answer is four, but I like your thinking."

A) Creek water will likely kill your garden if ANYONE has a leaking cesspool or dump upstream. The bacteria level will be hazardous for you and your pets, when you put it into sprinklers, it atomizes the contaminants.

B) Most urban and suburban areas, in spite of what the guy from Arkansas says, will have specific restrictions against taking water from "wetlands", which include riparian areas (the banks of flowing streams). As mentioned by others, your hose will lead them right to you.

C) Check this website to see if your washing machine motor will work. It might, but IMHO you will expend more time and (human) energy than it is worth. To estimate the GPM required, look at the data on your sprinkler heads. An average pop-up spray head will take 0.1GPM at 70PSI, adjusted up for lower PSI.

I think, as others have said, that a shallow well with a surface mounted jet pump will be a much better choice all around. Legal, cleaner and more likely to be successful.

Well, dang, I didn't think about the contaminates in the creek ... so do you have any info on what it takes to put in shallow well with a surface mounted jet pump?

Hello,

Have you explored using RAM Pump.

Regards

Madhav Chowdhary

SWEE Technologies

Pune (India)

Never thought about it... thanks... something like this? http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projects/rampump/rampump.html

or buy one?

Question, has anyone used a washing machine motor to drive a transfer water pump?

Yes! I use mine on average about 3 times a week to pull water out of the wash basin next to the basement washing machine.

I wanted to soak wash in a basement tub but the floor is about about 7 feet below the main sewer pipe.

So, I pulled the motor and the separate pump from the old washing machine, built a board under the wash basin and mounted them so the inlet to the pump is directly under the drain. I hooked up the two using two sections of heavy wall hose and a one way flapper valve.

The exhaust side of the pump connects to the sewer via a trap.

It works as planned but if I factor in the cost of my time and how much was spent, it was too costly an idea given the options and does not work as well as sinks designed for this application.

Submersible pumps are electrically insulated and safe. Washing machine motors are not. You will need to provide a belt drive. The motor and pump will be outside. Washing machine motors are under the tub the tub and while they might not be subject to moisture in that location it most certainly will when you place it near the creek. A submersible pump is not as likely to be detected and safer.

I urge you to listen to the counsel provided by others: go submersible.

L.J.

No, the tiny excuse of a motor can only turn a pump designed to move water at ± .02kpa. Hardly enough to water anything, let alone a gearden 150 yards UP. Rather use a submersible or something else less frustrating and tiresome.

If you (and the creek!) are on a slope, go a few hundred feet upstream and sink your hose in the water, run it underwater to where aproximately you need the water and with a bit of luck you will have a good enough head to supply your water without pumping at all......the greater the height difference between the hose ends, the higher the pressure you will get!!

Put a strainer at the top end on to stop rocks and the like (fish?) being sucked in.......

Hide the hosepipe well.....best of luck....

You could save on some of your sewer charges by having the water company install a second meter strictly for the use of outside irrigation water. You would, of course, need to isolate your outdoor feeds from the rest of the house (shouldn't be too difficult). Water use on the second meter would not be subject to the typical sewer charges. This is a very common practice in this area (central Ohio), and TOTALLY legal. mmaks

Hum... I guess that would me running another line to back yard of the house from the street, eh? I replaced the the polybutylene pipe from the steet to the front of the house and that was $1400... ouch.

Hello,

Use solar PV powered water pump

Regards

Madhav Chowdhary

SWEE Technologies

Pune (India)

Only if your meter is at the street. I was presuming it was located at the house as is usually the case. My apologies if this is not the case.

Have you put any thought into using a water collection system using your rain gutters? I am currently constructing a system utilizing 55 gallon plastic drums for collection and a small trasfer pump for watering duties. A filter and top covering will need to be used to prevent insect intrusion and mosquito breeding. I will also be adding a spigot for hand watering containers. Rain is pretty regular in your area and you may be missing out on this easily captured resource.

I know this reply doesnt really address the question asked,but I have to agree with JRaef about water quality from the creek. You might not know if or when someone upstream spills or dileberately dumps some hazardous substance in or near the creek.

As for going with a sandpoint..........First thing would be to find out if you can get water from the ground beneath you , no deeper than 25-28 ft from the pump would be best. Rent an auger and extensions and start digging. If you hit water before 25 ft you can probably go ahead with the next step of buying pipe and ponit and then drive the Point. If you know water is there but just a little deeper than 25ft you can always put in some 40'' metal well cribbing to get your pump closer to the water. A 1 1/2 point and pipe would be all you need. I might start a hole 10-15 feet from the creek,(just to check if there is water available) then if I hit water, note the hole deepth and ground difference between there and right next to your garden and start digging again. Calculate the approx. deepth when you should hit water. Digging the well and getting water there would be more cost effective for a number of reasons (Wire, Pipe, Maint. Etc.) . Also it should be safer water by far compaired to creek water. After you get water , get it tested if you have any concerns at all.

Some Parts needed : 1 1/2 Point , 1 1/2 pipe(needed length), 1 1/2 Check valve , 1 1/2 Tee, 1 1/2 to 1" reducer , piece if 1'' Hose and clamps , jet pump and Pressure Tank (if you dont want pump running contiuously). After you finish and everything is good, a weather proof cover for the pump is a great idea. Take pump and tank in house for winter and don't forget to drain water out of vertical pipe so it doesnt freeze.

............It's up to you, but you might want to check to see if your local codes allow sandpoint wells. Some cities hate that you are not paying them for all your water needs , therefor do not allow wells for any type in the city.

Thanks... after all the great feedback, the well would be the safest way to go...

Though I've never sunk a well, how hard can it be?

I will ask the guys at BP for tips.

cheers!

I had never done a well the first time I did it either. Called up the friends, bought the beer, rented the auger, we managed to get it done in one day. Not as bad as I thought it might be. We hit water at 14 ft., went down to 25 ft. so the recovery would be better. Got a 1/2HP Jacuzzi jet pump, wired it with portable cord and a plug (I unplug it and bring it inside in the months I don't need the water). Started off with a 25gal tank, but the pump cycled too much for my taste when the sprinklers were on so I upgraded to 50gal, no problem, other than my wife thinking the tank is ugly. So I'll someday get around to painting sunflowers on it...

Dang 14' down... great... something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYNQt36VayM?

Looked at renting a auger and most were for post holes.