Fertilizer Spreader

Someone who will remain nameless just sent me an e-mail stating that the design is NOT completely new, that I am taking components from an existing design and adding them to a new base.

Thanks for setting me straight!

"Sitting on the patents"? I'm an engineer, not a patent lawyer, but I've been awarded a few patents so I've been through the process a few times.

If I recall correctly, a patent holder (or the assignee) must pay a fee every year to maintain the enforcement power of a patent. If you don't pay the fee the USPO figures you don't care to enforce it and your patent rights end. BUT this only applies for 17 years; after 17 years the knowledge 'taught' by the patent goes into the public domain.

Also, the US Supreme Court ruled a few years ago [KSR v Teleflex] that something that is 'reasonably obvious' to someone in the art cannot be patented; i.e., if a patent takes A and B and combines them to get C (which is obvious to anyone familiar with A and B) then there is nothing 'patentable' here; the patent must take A and B and combine them in a way to get X which is not obvious to anyone familiar with A and B.

So if I were you I'd gather the info you have and talk to a patent lawyer to see 1) Are those patents still in force [have they paid the yearly fee; has the 17 years expired?], 2) Do those patents simply 'patent the obvious', and 3) Do your ideas infringe on those patents?

Thankyou for the patent explanation

Proving on paper it will work is only part of the issue, and that can be contested.

As you yourself stated here;

I am about to post this whole Idea on the web just to see if someone can run with it and make it work. At this point I just want to see my idea work.

Maybe you could use this site for opinions about any weakness to your idea.....in other words poke holes in your idea so they can addressed. Easier to get answers so that your better prepared with getting coming up with answers from the shots from potential financiers

Such as will the spread be consistent?

How much cargo weight (fertilizer) can it carry?

During distribution, as the spreader unloads do you have any adjustment for load distribution for balance?

to start with.

p911

That was my whole point with posting it here.

I know that "on paper" and "in the real world" are totally different.

Weight is not an issue.

I am hoping someone can assist me by shooting my theory full of holes.

As to the Spreading problems, I have chosen to go with an air delivery system like what is on a terregater like this:

The point I was getting at with weight distribution. Will the hover craft pitch or roll compensation if/when the fertilizer unloads unevenly.

And as far as the spread. You may deliver it evenly, but as soon as the transition from the craft to the craft. that fertilizer will blow. Do you realize the wind involved not much really to lift the crafts. but when it exists the seal, there is a lot of velocity.

As well as control, as farmer you know that fertilizer is heavy, what kind of braking system will you have when you reach the end of the field for turn around, or stopping for that matter. There is alot of mass there. And then the dosage as you brake or turn. The wheeled version I beleive have it spread powered by the wheels

I do have a few ideas for this.

p911

It would seem that you have the pieces - you need to put them together. Why don't you talk to the hovercraft people your link provides?

What you seem to be missing is a provable market. If you could demonstrate to the hovercraft supplier that you had a market for, say, 10 units right now, they might be willing to lend you a machine for fitting out as you suggest for demonstration purposes.

With those pieces in place, you might then be able to raise the rest of the money necessary to complete a demonstration model.

One problem may be the dry fertilizer itself. It will be kicked around and blown about by the large volume of air being blown to hover the craft. Probably this can be creatively harnessed to spread the fertilizer itself by feeding it to the exit of the flotation air stream. The damp mud may prevent entrainment. A dust proof enclosure for the driver with filtered air circulation may also be required. Bioramani

The problem with hovercraft is that it is affected by side winds, as a retired farmer, I spent many, many hours in fertilizing, and you know that the ability to keep fertilizing precisely paralel to the former fertilized track is very important!

Years ago I thought about the same as your question in another farming aspect, and maybe that a combination [hybrid] of a vehicle with wheels, and a small assistance hovercraft unit beneath the fertilizer's tank will do the job?!

What about mounting the tank on a chain tractor [caterpillar]

There can be some different temporary configuration ,so you mount and dismount the device..

BUT WAIT A MINUTE!

I recall now that many years ago ,I read in a farming magazine about a farmer in England, which his fields were on marshland, he built a towed by tractor fertilizer that was equipped with big wheels driven by the tractor's p.t.o, and this enabled him to fertilize the land!

Tracked tractors are not an option, they offer no floatation

I think it would be very important to know why 50 years ago the idea was a failure. 50 years is a long time and a lot of progress was done in several directions so that with techniques available today the idea could work.

Hi,

Regarding your statement;

" The government and other lenders are using this 50 year dated info to deny me funding to build a prototype"

I am interested to fund this project.

or

I am interested in funding almost anything that is going to help farming activity.

We are involved in large scale farming activities in India.

Pl. contact me on my email id;

sweetechnologies at gmail dot com

Regards

Madhav Chowdhary

Hello farmatt,

Since the land is muddy and using tracked or wheeled vehicles is not practical, why not try the obvious?

Employ large "crop-dusters" to fertilize the land.....

Just thinking outside the fertilizer box........ummm, wouldn't that be Del's litter box?

Here's the problem I see. How to control the application of liquids or solids in the windstorm that is produced by the craft.

Hey Farmat, I'm thinking radically outside the box, but, given the amount of money your talking about, maybe not. If these same fields are used year in and year out, I'm envisioning a series of monorails, set on pilings and spaced evenly across the field, maybe four feet above the surface, a self powered spreader, that would be small enough for two men to pick up and move, (when empty), would be employed to ride on monorails and sling fertilizer out each side. The receptacle to hold the fertilizer could be light weight plastic, and the motor would have to be sized big enough to move the load and run the slingers on the spreader. Here's one even crazier, a truck mounted catapult, the truck would have to be equipped with outriggers, and the catapult would be turret mounted so it could be turned. The truck would drive around the perimeter of the field, and sling the fertilizer at high velocity, without having to get in the field.

You still have to get other machinery through the field

Is it swampy enough for this:

You might devise some type of aux motor and duct system to give you some added lift when needed on dry land. There's still the problem of lots of wind.

One more quick thought. Are these fields muddy all of the time, or just when you need to spread fertilizer. My line of thought here, is to encapsulate the fertilizer pellets in a non toxic coating, spread it by conventional means when it's dry, and it will be released when the fields get wet.

They already have slow releasing fertilzer. Problem is the amount needed and the already heavy mass of fertilizer may eliminate have it pelletized.

There is a ready-made army of fertilizer spreaders among CR4 OPs. Fit them out in Xtra-tuf boots and let them clomp through the swamp. Done deal.

Or just watch Fox 'news'.

Maybe you could get a fleet of these. All you'd have to do is get them to stop wrestling and work together.

I'll be happy to help clean the fleet after the application is finished.

Each unit has to be hand washed in hot soapy water after each day to keep them operating properly.

All of your input has been great!!!

To answer a few questions,

Granular fertilizer is dense enough that once applied into 6" tall grass, it will stay put quite well. (we plant in the fall, so we have a fairly good growth by spring)

stability is no problem Our ground is flat enough and I have designed outriggers that should work if needed.

Wind is not much of an issue, with the air delivery system, we are controlling prescribed applications through GPS so skips and overlaps are avoided.

Using a system similar to this one:

http://stellarsupport.deere.com/en_US/support/sprayerVideo/swathControlProVid.wmv

Keep shooting holes into this, you are helping alot!!!

1- the link you provided has a virus

2- You did not give the information why it did not work 50 years ago

which link had a virus? have clicked them all and found no problems.

The technology in the 1950s and 60s regarding alternatives to metal (plastics and rubbers etc) was not as good as now.

I have not researched all the failures that they experienced because I felt that todays technology is so much better that the data would not compare.

http://www.safetyoneinc.com/hagglunds-bv206.html, Farmatt, these are tracked http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1xiL_ftLtIvehicles and are able to go through water. Maybe worth a look.

Have worked with these, they tear up the ground terribly and Do not perform as well as advertised.

They are also very rough to ride in when crossing creeks and ditches.

Some chemicals are spread at high speeds to ensure a very light application These do not go fast.

I've read all of the posts, the wind seems like it would definitely be a factor. It almost seems like you'd be better off with a remote controlled blimp, or one with gps and preprogrammed flight path. I'm way out of my area of expertise here, hope you don't mind my chatter.

Or a combination, conventional tractor w/ attached balloon to lighten load.

I just reread your original post and it occurred to me. If you're not trying to get rich. And you're about to post your whole idea on the web. And you've got a scale model prototype. And you can prove on paper that it works. It seems to me that you're asking everyone here for help, but, withholding all of the critical information that would lead to some real answers. Just my opinion.

Main thing is, I am about to give up. I want to see it work. I just see not having a finished product as a complete waste of my time. Even if I fail, I see quitting as far worse than having a machine that doesn't work for the purpose it was designed. I guess I was hoping for someone to say, "I like the idea, let me run with it"

Or maybe "I have tried along the same route, I am solidly sure it wont work"

Rather than just throw the idea away, I would rather give it to someone else.

"I can prove on paper that it will work." This is from your OP. There are some bright people on here that I'm sure would be willing to help. IMO, it doesn't seem like you've got anything to lose by posting the specifics. Quitting isn't worse than having a machine that doesn't work. Sometimes quitting a certain project is the best course of action. We should say, disengaging from a project that won't work;-)

As soon as I get everything transferred from paper to a computer, I will get it put to a website that you all can read and shoot this thing full of holes. (Remember, Without holes, doughnuts would be just ordinary pastries.)

I guess there is too much Bull-Headed Farmer in me. Dad always saw quitting before completion as being the "cowards" way out.

Thanks all for your help, will post a link to the whole project when I get it on a web site.---Most likely after harvest and hunting season is over