American Pride

We (the US) invented the internet (Arpanet) yet we can't even break the top ten in average connection speed?

http://mashable.com/2010/01/16/united-states-internet-speed/

Take that with a large grain of salt...

I read the latest Akamai report and am troubled by the way they use their data. I am also troubled by the way the Mashable/Tech article cherry-picked a bad-sounding piece of the data to make the U.S. sound bad compared to the rest of the world.

The Akamai report deliberately excluded U.S. cities that had college campuses with high-speed data systems: "...connections from known academic networks (autonomous systems) were removed from the source data set in order to mitigate the impact high-speed campus connections may have had on the overall rankings. As seen in Figure 8, this new "academic" filter has had a significant impact on the rankings of cities within the list. The former top three cities – Berkeley (California), Chapel Hill (North Carolina), and Stanford (California) – have all disappeared from the top 100 list..."

As to the Mashable/Tech article, they could have mentioned, for example, that the U.S. is #1 in unique IP addresses (and this number is experiencing a healthy growth rate). They could have mentioned that the U.S. is #3 in terms of having cities with high-speed internet connections, and #2 in cities with average maximum speed connections.

I think a case could be made that the rest of the world has taken advantage of the U.S. having blazed the trail with Generation 1 and Generation 2 systems, and were able to 'leap-frog' directly to Generation 3 and beyond. The U.S. has to re-do a lot of infrastructure to go to the latest generation, and considering the size of the project and some understandable inertia it will take a while.

Agreed.

I have a relative who lives on a well-traveled road 1 mile outside a industrial US city of 50,000 pop. and just a few miles from another city of 70,000 with a large state university. Not a major metropolis, but hardly "the sticks". Yet she can only get conventional dial-up!

Absurd!

American big business has twisted the world's patent system in their favor to such an extent that it's prevented everyone except big corporations and multi-millionaires from filing and prosecuting patents.

Because of that American stranglehold on the patent system, the Chinese skirted the patent system entirely by counterfeiting and stealing American intellectual property.

America has no answer for that, except to block Chinese imports altogether.

But Democratic administrations don't have the balls for that - and their opponents, the Republicans, don't have the desire, because it's them that moved all the US factories to China in the first place, to take advantage of a few dollars an hour in wages.

Had they known they would get robbed of all their intellectual property, they might have had second thoughts about moving to China in the first place, as Jeffrey Immelt, the big boss at GE said in a stew of total frustration this summer.

But it's too late now, the cat's out the bag and the Chinese are not going to stuff it back in just because the USA is hurting now.

USA Inc is now working for China Inc and there is no way back from that under the present mindsets on Capitol Hill.

do you check you facts before posting, Bill Clinton created Nafta, demo, Ros Perot said it was making a big mistake, republican,, now we see what he was talking about, we want to call people who sent manufacturing jobs to china wrong but they were trying to keep thier jobs, hp's ceo had to do this or be driven out of town on a rail, now she runs for office and she is called a traitor for keeping hp alive.. we need to sit and think on this awhile before opening our yaps...

Mitch ret peugeot mech
oh and another thing when are we going to stop catering to opec and set our own demands on oil prices, we are responcible for the freedom of three quarters of the world but do we get any credits for our effort, we feed more people then any other nation and it takes petroleum for the tractors,fertilizer,shipping,water transfering, and we continue to destroy our soil and water in the process, if we became isolationist a lot of countries would suffer severely. we are going to send Iraq 2.5 billion in foreign aid in 2011 but they are sitting on 55 billion surplus?what the flechk is wrong with us. are we that pshycotic that we would consider this?? we need to have reperation for our efforts here, germany had to pay reperations for wwI and they just finished, now we can start with wwII, we liberated korea from china, we liberated afghanistan from russia, we liberated iraq from iran, we liberated iraq from saddam, we liberate and others sit on thier arses and call us names.. it is the lawyers in congress that twist our constitution and make up laws that have no place on the books, no wonder patent law went to hell in a handbasket, we now need to liberate ourselves from washington..

How much of HP is still in the US? Just management of distribution for the US? There is no HP computer being made in the US is there? No manufacturing jobs, no taxes being paid for manufacturing property or labor. No jobs for all the people who fed, housed, transported, cared for, buried, or protected the HP manufacturing employees.

What did the lady save, besides her own profit? Surely not American Pride.

I disagree with you also, the time to implement it has very little to do with safety. It has allot to do with money.....will people use it. people have to use this form of transportation so it can be economically viable. i.e. make money.

As for as why it works in other country which as you pointed out can be a long list. But some of the technology the other country's are using in its rail system originated and was developed here.

For the most part I think both Ronseto and Passingtongreen are both correct. In my experience, I've been taught the more conservative "let someone else find the bugs" approach to engineering. It is hard to shoot any ethical holes with this line of logic. Let the technology prove itself first... the unleash the public on it.

I used to work for a power company (deep deep pockets), I witnessed them reject certain new engineering approaches developed in Europe (in regards to boiler chemistry and corrosion reduction). The rejection was based strictly a cost/benefit analysis and had little or nothing to do with engineering practices and principals. But I as an engineer, did not recommended it either (for the fact there's no long term info on the proposed change).

This leads me to conclude that both big business and our guiding pricipals contribute to how fast we develop.

Just my 2 cents...

Who's rattled your chain?

Your example doesn't really work. We've got Amtrak, it's a giant government subsidized loser. Making it high tech isn't going to make people ride it. The only way to do it would be to tax us to the point where we can't afford cars, much like some of the countries you mention.

The countries you mention are also way smaller than the US, I don't even want to think about how much it would cost to run mag-lev track all over the place. Plus we simply don't have the money.

Sorry to be a downer.

Here we go again, "We've got Amtrak, it's a giant government subsidized loser." We provide massive subsidies to the airline and trucking industries in the form of air traffic control, subsidized airport construction, road building, repairing, policing, etc. plus they get support when they want to expand, Amtrak gets barriers.

I sympathize with small business owners, real small business owners but the class is so inclusive that the multi-billionaire Koch brothers are members, that my credulity is strained.

This is such a deep subject, there is no pat answer.

American pride has flown out of the window. We used to take pride in purchasing products 'Made in America', now we just look for the best price, skipping over more expensive American products.

Greedy management has outsourced our manufacturing, taking their bonuses and salaries over fighting to keep the jobs here. Then they run for congress.

I am a major railroad fan, but again the cheap, lazy citizens don't look any further than their driveways. I moved to the Philadelphia area so I could ride the trolleys. Come rain or shine they worked reliably, and always seemed to be only a short walk away. Riding through the suburbs in a trolley is a blast, and economical in the long run. Auto insurance in Pa. is not cheap.

I was looking to move to a nice town in Va., and noticed a RR track running through town. Asked if it was in use, the line went all the way to the coast. No, not enough ridership, passenger service discontinued. But the track is still there, so there is hope.

Maybe there is hope for America, but we have to get past the greedy politicians, and even greedier corporations. Not to mention greedy, lazy citizens. Sellouts.

With any new technology, the rush is on to be the first to embrace it.

True;

It's true the US was "the market to aim for" 20-25 years ago. But it is very resistant and can be decidedly unrewarding.

Maybe 10 years ago - people stopped trying, and things like this started happening.

I am not American but my many relatives have settled there. I have been visiting U.S on some occasions. My personal view is that U.S is great country. only thing is that it is lacking in top leadership who frame all the policies. It has vast resources and highly technical population.To-day need is for innovators and good leaders who can reconstruct the economy and exploit natural resources,

High speed rail - In Turkey, if you connect Istanbull, Ankara and Izmir a great portion of the population is linked. Forget the remainder of the country.

Similar, in the US some connections between east coast cities would have good population densities served. Same with San Francisco to LA. The middle, mountain and northwest states don't have the population density required to support the cost.

Cell phones - the problem was the way the service was started - disjointed to serve major population areas. The cell phone companies could care less about rural areas - no money.

Here in Turkey, Turk Cell (a government company) built the system to start. Everyone and everywhere in the western half of the country is served. Can't say about the east part as I have not been there. In the western area you can make a call from just about anywhere - probably with the exception of deep valleys.

When I worked in India and we were purchasing equipment I found two totally different mindsets between Euro area countries and US companies. US companies generally had a price they would sell at. Euro area countries were open to negotiation but started with very high prices.

The Indian buyers loved the Euro area companies as once they started negotiating they could keep going until they virtually ended up with stock in the company they were working on. Our company purchasing guys were tenacious, hard working and did get the best price possible. The Euro area companies usually managed to be so clever they got screwed.

Part of the problem are the greens who worship at the feet of the militant euro greens and try to convince everyone how great they are.

Hey russ,

Could you try to ignore the guest, and not get the thread shut down? Please

Not to reply to a fool?

This post was deleted because it was an attack on another user. Please review the CR4 Site FAQ and the CR4 Rules of Conduct.

I like using the internet, as it gives me a voice which can read from anywhere around the world. My problem does not lay with this technology, but rather the USA sending our manufacturing off shore. I have worked with skilled trades all of my working life. We have lost the skill sets here and continue to do so to make things. I do not know what we are going to as a country if we (God Forbid) were to go into a major world war. We can not even find anyone who can pour a good casting or make armaments to defend our selfs.

We need to get back to our industrial base and provide proper jobs for our people. Which in turn makes us able to provide the funds for such things as going to the noon.

I disagree - I used to buy castings (5 years back) and generally went to the great lakes area. They were available in Europe as well but a lot more difficult to deal with.

The unions can be blamed for many of the jobs departing. A laborer is a laborer and a minimum wage job. Many auto worker jobs were labor jobs at very high cost - for example.

We had cast sturts that went in naval vessels.......from Sweden.

I am not even going to start with unions.

When the 2nd world war broke out, we were able to "rally round the flag". We were able to produce more weapons than anyone else and even develop new ones at the same time. We supplied all the allies with weapons and equipment that many years after the war ended, were still being used. Jeeps, trucks, airplanes and ships found their way into many other countries. There is still some WWII equipment in use in other parts of the world. We have always been able to deal with emergencies. There may sometimes be a delay, like during hurricane Katrina and the Gulf oil spill, but eventually we answer the call. We are not a perfect country; no country is, but we have a spirit although may not show that comes to the surface when needed.

I guess my feeling is, despite all that is wrong with this country, I have complete faith in this country to prevail when the situation requires it. I don't consider myself a fool, an optomist or a pessimist.

Quote "As far as American pride. Do not slap the boys in uniform in the face. They are all volunteers. The US is an all volunteer military. And when they volunteered, they knew that they will get deployed in a hot zone."

Why are you saying this? I never said anything against our military. I am as proud of them as I am with my country.

ron, just do a little research you'll see a connection. Hint....You brought up wwII. Guess what American company was selling oil to the Germans DURING WWII? I don't mind a debate or a discussion, but sometimes, I don't know what position you take.

Ask what the now large US computer company was doing in ww2 with the germans?

Hi Phoenix,

I agree with you about US action on Pearl Harbor attack, the American response was unrivalled! When New York was attacked, 9/11, the reaction was slow, unprecise, and never get any result. There is a big difference between a protectorate and the country by itself or between the head of the country and the American Spirit, isn't it?

Today, there is a problem at the highest level. I think it's the president's duty to get up and initiate what must be done, the American people will follow.

Also, the US is too attached to "oil", and oil comes from were the attack came. The president has the duty to initiate what supposed to done years ago and finished by now.

I think "big corporations" have the words and the people have to follow. This must be changed to return to the "American Realities"! All the best from an outsider and an observer, Gil.

Quote "We can not even find anyone who can pour a good casting or make armaments to defend our selfs."

Maybe not, but come a war and you will see how quickly we get up and running. This country has always thrived on adversity. If it is impossible, we will always find a way.

Start a rambling discussion and then argue both sides?

Not quite as good as a few weeks back, when he complained about the non technical discussions, right after starting one....

The paradoxes are part of why we love Ronseto I'll add my bit of fuel to the fire

the Chinese have also kept the yen artificially cheap

the playing field [market] is tilted towards exploiting the US market & exporting the profits

we have additional costs, from things like worker safety & environmental protection, while some of the laws & rules may be excessively stringent, on the whole they are necessary & proper

Yuan or renminbi, yen is Japan, and it is not cheap. milo

Picky, picky

yen, yuan

I know you understand the point I was trying to make

http://www.upi.com/Business_News/2010/10/30/In-China-a-voice-for-some-appreciation/UPI-74311288461655/

there is a substantial advantage built in with the exchange rate, even before factoring in the lack of much in the way of fair labor or environmental safety laws...

that the chinese are concerned a substantial number of businesses would crash, with even a minor adjustment in exchange rates, shows how low their productivity is.

Well Garthh - you were in the right general direction at least - across the Pacific toward the sunset.

Nothing appears to be black and white. For every good arguement, there always seems to be an equally valid response. If we all agreed about everything and never had an opposing view, it would all be very boring.

GA Ky

Hi Ron,

Are you sure? What's happened after 9/11? Americans responded immediately, unrivalled, on Pearl Harbor attack. Up to today, no "one" is punished for the New York attack! This is the big difference between the past and the presence, we always "thrived" but today, we just talk about. Already came the "war" without real responses. So, tell to your president to "find a way" to eliminate the constent menace with high costs, and recreate the stable and enjoyable life of the past. Americans and others will participate, Gil.

"My problem does not lay with this technology, but rather the USA sending our manufacturing off shore." - that my friends is a problem not exclusive to the US.

I complain about the fact that one of our former politicians, who when his party came to power after 23 years, then decided that we as a country could be service industry based - as it would be cheaper to have things manufactured off-shore. That was nearly thirty years ago.

How do we stop this sort of exploitation of labor? As a joke - ban any company from operating in it's former homeland IF they export jobs to 'cheap labor' countries?

This country still has - in my opinion - very little manufacturing industry. I worked at Pizza Hut for 6-1/2 years - it's not something an engineering associate should HAVE to do.

In WW2, Australia progressed from a miniscule industrial base, to a country building ships, aircraft and even 'cast steel' military tanks [the one's which go bang] - most of which were built by women..!

The "Button Plan" was more about breaking up big Unions, getting out of the "tax breaks and incentives" drain/leverage/cycle, particularly Ford, GM, and Chrysler exerted to "keep jobs in Australia" - than 'economic rationalism'.

It was rather ironic that Toyota and Mitsubishi slid into the voids created and 'independent' Ford/GMHolden subsequently created, seem to be doing just fine selling to Europe, South America, wherever. Just not to US - where their products are "wrong for the market", according to their parent companies.

But - yes - 'breaking the trough' and forcing "competitive/innovative", in the world market - hurt a lot.

A level playing field is great, as long as it is truly level

you bet import what ever you want from anyone who has similar worker safety, environmental protections & exchange rates. or charge tariffs to equalize

Hi Phil,

This is a little off topic, but if I were a young person in Australia, particularly an engineer, I would be learning everything I could about things that pertain to the natural gas industry.

I've been doing some reading up on the reserves that are turning up over there and it's MASSIVE. I've even read about the possibility of the money being so big that a portion of it may be sent out to the Aussie citizens. From where I'm sitting, it looks like you guys are going to be enjoying a thriving and growing economy, for at least the next 30 years or so. Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I'm reading.

http://www.agl.com.au/Downloads/ASX_Loy-Yang_Sep10_891933.pdf

Not sure were the citizen fits in.

Thanks ky,

Here is a link that ties into what I've been reading about.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/asia/100611/mining-australia-economy-raw-materials-minerals

Good one

pretty good example, letting some of the most profitable companies in the world run roughshod over over the government for fun & profit. These are public resources they are liquidating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_that_glitters_is_not_gold

I don't know what you're looking at but I would be interested

usually here in the US the public subsidizes the various extraction industries in a myriad of different ways without any payback. once these resources have been exploited they're gone, companies like BP have made money in the short term, we all pay the price long term

Due to their enhanced status [big pile of money] they can have undue influence on the process of granting of leases in the Gulf. The safety procedures were incomplete at best, nothing having been changed in 30 years. so we have a situation like the spill, which we as taxpayers are going to pay for. they're getting a huge taxbreak, so it appears as if they are paying much more than they are for the clean up

all this courtesy of corporate personhood.

I'm not advocating redistributing any assets, just to stop give our money to the 5% who have plenty already & will abuse the system to get more

Every big corporation will use their enhanced status to get ahead & anyone would do the same, it's just a matter of using the available resources to their best advantage. taxes, regulation & monetary policy can promote or discourage any behavior

What are we promoting & who is benefiting?

It's all so transparent. It's not all gold if it shines. If some one is sitting on a fence he should not fall either side but keep watching. Then, if enough is said, a soap box comes in handy. Never the twain shall meet.

Me? Pessimistic? Nah, just stopped believing in conspiracies. If something sucks then there is differential pressure involved. I'll stand back because the pressure relief valve is making weird noises.

Just paid A$ 1.55 for 1l (1 liter) of fuel, gas, petrol, refined stuff making/keeping the share holders happy. What I was really going to say, I had it nearly in type, was made up off the unpalatable dribble I come up with when I just think about it.

The stuff you can only talk about with your barber. They have heard it all before, since they started cutting hair. In my book they are the perfect politicians, just on a smaller scale. We are the ones paying for trying to making a good impression on our peers. Parallels? The neighbor has a new car!!

Back up the fence it is, Ky.

I'm not suggesting that it is possible to do any of this stuff, anymore than the usual conservative wet dream of capitalism unfettered by pesky rules is possible

just doing my version of the failure analysis, which may have been Ronseto's original quest

The superficial high speed rail question has a couple of answers

lack of population density in most places

personal space, most americans don't want to share their personal space with the rif raf

AND not only don't want to share our personal space with the riff raff, we don't want the public space to be interfered with with Wind turbine s ( might spoil the view) or Power lines ( Musn't improve the infrastructure for the future at my expense).

Population density is the issue on High speed rail. Absolutely agree.

Milo

Money = access

Actually I want whoever is representing me to bring home the bacon, that's the way the game is set up right now, so I want the guy who is going to get the job done & why term limits don't work, I want experience in what ever form the government is in today. There is no choice but be a whore

the corporate controlled media in conjunction with pseudo conservatives got rid of the equal time rule further increasing pressure to raise campaign funds

I'm not against corporations, I don't think they should be running the government...

Agreed.....and by the way....there is no more bacon.

GA Kramarat.

It isn't free enterprise or captialism that is the problem. It is deficient people, ones without character and integrity, within the systems that bastardize and corrupt the system.

Everything rises and falls on leadership. Jim Collins

How are you going to weed out corrupt politicians? Politicians have been corrupt since the beginning of time. It seems to be human nature that makes politicians corrupt. You can say; "vote them out of office", but then someone just as corrupt takes his place. The best politicians are those who can hide their corruption from the public. The bad ones are those who get caught. I think most politicians start out as idealistic, but if their election was bought by a large corporation, they have to abide by those who put him there.

This is a good point

What is the largest group where the honor system will work?

Thanks kramarat. I appreciate your comment, BUT that's the BIG PROBLEM here in Australia. We continue to be a quarry for the world - natural gas isn't much different!

Australia has got to get away from the quarry mentality. It may be great for some of the large companies, BHP-Billiton, Rio Tinto and Hammersley etc but it doesn't do anything for the millions of other workers and wannabes. Mining employs about less than 2% of the working population [figures subject to correction] - what about the others?

Regretfully I'm not a 'young' (engineering) person any longer - I just turned 57 a couple of weeks ago. Maybe all the payments the government makes from gas exploitation etc. will help me in my later years?!

Hey Phil,

Some of the articles I was reading painted a very rosy future for Australia as a whole. It sounded great, but I did keep thinking, if Australia exports every bit of natural gas over the next 20-30 years, then what? You guys will be stripped of your natural resources and left with nothing.

Of course the sources of my information were probably coming from trade publications, there wouldn't be any bias there.

Hi Kramarat and Phil at the same time,

The future looks rosy all the time. I'm Canadian and the future was rosy in the 60s. The present (the future from there) isn't so rosy. The standard of life is down, less worthy jobs, more crime, more obesity and other ailments. Our wheat, wood, oil, gas, and other natural richnesses don't make Canadian life better. Or, only for a few?

I can tell you that certain politicians are good, valueable, and not crooked. Trudeau was excellent and Martin made our coffers ful but no one liked his capacity of managing a positive economy for the country. In my opinion, people like to vote for crooks because they talk well and show a colourful future and easy to access, in words only. Wish you good luck to both, Gil.

NB: Promesses never or rarely turned into realities!

UK was first to have tv but soon it was so old system (405 lines against the 625) so the result was UK one of the last having color tv and expensives two norms B&w TV'S:May be same happened to the states with your NTSC color system behind PAL...The result for this is "the first will be the last one".No testing, no investment, the third world countries have too the best at the end so is it what you want for the states? I think Ronseto is a wrong way to face the analisis.-

You do not understand what I'm saying. Who was first in having TV is not the point. Who first invented the automobile is not the point. The point is we either invented the technology or someone influenced by the American way did. We have never been behind in technology. The level of technology needed varies from country to country. Do we need super high speed internet connections? I don't see why. Isn't a Corvette that goes 220mph fast enough? or must you have a Ferrari that goes 260mph? That is not a good use of technology in my opinion. Having the fastest car or the fastest internet connection or the fastest anything is just an exercise in egotism. So my internet connection is not the fasest around. Do I need a faster connection? Do you need a faster connection? I don't think so. It doesn't change the way we do things in our normal day-to-day life.

I can't see why that is "off topic" - not agreed with perhaps - but "very on topic", so GA from me

GA MB, well put. It's a sad reality, but very true, unfortunately.

GA. I think you may be reflecting today's reality better than 40 years ago. Some of the American efforts in disaster areas still rank very high. Ronseto may enjoy This 1973 radio broadcast by Gorden Sinclair when Americans could be proud. Perhaps this was the apex of American technocracy referred. The Americans are still the most generous lot in the world and have proven capabilities to respond to international disasters.

Unfortunately, the Americans continue to arm the world as you would arm your citizenry. Guns do kill people and a stable country or world could use less arms. The USA has made many an adversary by trying to impose its ideals on people who really don't want them. America is the biggest target because they are (or were) highest on the pedestal. Almost all economies were geared to emulate the American success (I am not sure of North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, or some Arabic states). As these other competing countries were getting successful, USA was trimming back and took their eye off the ball. International success is a good thing for the world as a whole but it will mean that the USA will have to do better and then still better to stay in the game. These emerging countries will be huge consumer markets and the demand for high quality education and goods will prevail. The USA has a bountiful land of resource and its people must also become a resource that is prepared to compete in world economies.

Those companies that are paying atrocious salaries and bonuses to CEOs and managers need to rein in the greed and work for the country not the bottom line. We have similar greed issues in Canada but we are a large resource based country that the world wants at this point in history. So we can survive these international pressures easier than our American cousins. It is not just the people that need to be better equipped (educated, trained) to help the country but it is also the companies responsibility to be a better citizen. Companies have become international but that does not mean that a country cannot lay down terms of business in a particular country.

Ronseto may well be living an old dream but that does not mean the end of the USA as an economic superpower. The old dream could be revived but it will take some sacrifice of all people and companies. I know the USA as the most laissez faire of countries but now is the time to put reins on some aspects.

Thank you for this.

I am reluctant to say such things having learned that, as an emigrant, recognizable by accent, some people get upset if I do say such things, people with whom I need to get along. Many seem to believe it is an either/or situation, either you must believe the country perfect or you should go back to from whence you came.

If we continually fail to acknowledge when we are trailing, we will trail even more. Unless we recognize the problem, we will not solve it. The K through 12 education system has been failing for a long time. It has the appearance of a paradox that the country with the best research and development capability does what it does with a large proportion of foreigners. If only we could raise high school math and science to the same value as high school football, we would be in better shape.

We would have to instill ethics into the politicians though.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/video/video.php?v=441549679325&comments

PMSL

American pride.

"Do you need a faster connection? I don't think so."

Try downloading Windows XP SP3 or a Linux distro or watching HD content on Hulu with dialup. Good luck pal.

Hi Ronseto,

Finally, you put the right words! I agree with you that Americans were all the time promoted things for everyone. Telephone, fridge, and other useable at every home were made fast and enough good to satisfy buyers.

Ford, the father, made ugly or nor fancy cars but were affordably by many.

However, during the last 30 years or so, everything turned sour or misdirected by ego, lack of knowledge, and understanding what people want. GM wanted to make car their way. Toyota and others satisfied customers who pay for the car. this is the difference between bankruptcy and success.

People are influenced by words, and corporations understand well that, use it to convince that their cars are to buy.

You are right that we need what we have and not the best or the fastest to do our daily duties, Gil.

All year long the county's that produce high performance or super cars knock the chevy corvette,but when the new euro models come out why is it always the vette that they attempt to beat.If the vette was a real joke to them why is it the first priority to compete with the vette. I will take an AMERICAN MADE ZR-1 any day over the others.

The fools that don't know racing do - watch the GT races in Europe - Corvettes do well in them.

Is that Glen Beck Or Bill O'Reily?

you've hit all the talking points...

this is the Reagan school of thinking

problem is once the alleged conservatives get in power, they hand out favors to all their friends feeding the industrial military complex Eisenhower warned of...Why not go after the real largess of the military budget, all one has to say is national defense or homeland security & all rational discussion is stopped in it's tracks

Look at the adventure in Afghanistan, what genius thought that was a good idea?

the Afghanis have been fighting anything that moves for all of recorded history, what would make anyone think they are about to stop? we have been involved since at least the 80's & haven't done much except make it worse... It isn't in our best interests now & never has been

all businesses need to pay their share, not just the medium & small ones who don't have good tax lawyers

it should not matter where your home office is, you want to sell in one of the biggest markets in the world, pay taxes, if you want to claim made in the US, that should mean more than the tag...

I'm all for mandatory drug testing as long as alcohol is included

industrial military complex

military industrial complex

complex industrial military

complex military industries.

I'm all for mandatory drug testing as long as alcohol is included

How about the

medical industrial complex

industrial medical complex..............

Patents......................

international law..........................

OK Garth how long would you like the list to be?

Its the weekend here and I could keep coming till the wallabies occupy the slopes.

Man, it looks dangerous what you have on your hands from here.

Hope all goes well, Ky.

I just threw in alcohol to stir the pot [as opposed to smoking it] since everyone has their mind altering substance of choice, which run the gamut from brownies[no not that kind] to heroin. it's not relevant unless you have a problem limiting your intake to appropriate times & places. The health consequences from alcohol are right up there with overeating & smoking in terms of costs to taxpayers

I could have easily gone off on a rant about big pharma, but there is no real difference to any other mega corp out to maximize profits by any means

but it is us against them

them being the the 5% that own 80% of everything.

there is bias in the mainstream media, corporate bias

money is not free speech

corporations should not enjoy equal rights to people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

Climbs down off well worn soapbox :D

You're making an argument, but what is your point.

Corporations should be nationalized?

Wealth and property should be confiscated and redistributed?

If that's the case, we'll just have to disagree......Besides, GlobalSpec GOOD, look at the nice sandbox they've created for us little people to play in.

A word in defense of the unions. Did they get too powerful? too big for their britches? yes of course they did. But why?

Because the business owners fought tooth and nail, a hundred years ago to keep the power of life and death over their workers. Mine owners wanted to not waste money on miner safety, mill owners, railroad owners the same. The mills and the mines and the fish and seafood processors wanted to be able to keep on hiring children, they only had to say, not prove, that they were twelve years old to do an adult's work, often in perilous conditions.

When the unions formed, the bosses hired scabs to take their jobs, and goons to rough them up and even kill a few. They were forced to become powerful to survive.

Then, the inevitable, when they became powerful they were corrupted by that power. The pity is that neither side saw the sense of changing the model to one of cooperation. There are two sides to that street, the managements never try to co-opt the unions into joint action, nor do the unions seek it. If either side did offer cooperation, it would be rejected out of hand. Both sides think that if something is good for the other, then it must be bad for them.

Lots of generalizations here, my apologies to the exceptions.

unions should have downsized instead of adding demands to make up their loses

The pendulum always swings too far, one way or the other.

The government held the hand of the unions - companies were not allowed to discuss problems between each other but the same union negotiating team went after GM, Ford, Chrysler.

The tables were set up for the unions to win - or rather to not lose. In the end everyone lost.

Unions cooperate - how un-union! The union bosses were generally politician wannabees from the peasant working class. All they understood was power and their union platform was the only place they could get it. I can't think of a union boss that ever went on to bigger and better things - they were not capable.

I can't think of a union boss that ever went on to bigger and better things - they were not capable.

Is it that they were not capable, or is it the wealth, power and influence that comes with being a union boss? These guys live very lucrative lifestyles with the money they skim earn off the dues that are paid by the workers.

"Unions cooperate - how un-union! The union bosses were generally politician wannabees from the peasant working class. All they understood was power and their union platform was the only place they could get it. I can't think of a union boss that ever went on to bigger and better things - they were not capable."

Well well well, you must be from the upper crust, old money, because that is a typical upper crust insult offered to the working classes. I am of the "peasant working class" and I'm quite proud of the fact that I became a registered professional engineer without the help of family influence or money, in fact we were quite poor.

There is often a turning point in the life of a promising union man, the company spots him and tries to lure him into management, if he accepts, they gain a bright mind and the union loses one. It is a fork and he will be stuck on the branch he picks, if he goes management he will not be taken back in the union, if he goes on with the union, management will not consider him again. There are instances where union leaders have been outstanding. I don't know about here in the USA, but in the wartime UK we had a national government and I can immediately think of three cabinet members who had been union bosses and then became Labour Party MPs, and all did amazing jobs.

I doubt you grew up an poorer than I.

I had no plans on staying in that condition though.

A 'promising union man' What is that?

I am amazed though that a Labour Party MP could be considered as 'doing a good job'.

Joking aside I suppose there may have been union types that were any good - a few but damn few!

We seem to be at cross purposes, I cannot detect which of your remarks are jokes and which are not. In any case, your mind seems to be made up and that leaves no room for discussion.

We all do well not to forget that the unions grew in response of the mistreatment of workers.