Replies to Answers and Comments...

It bugs me when they don't at least come back and let us know, what, if any, of our responses helped solved the problem at hand.

99% are guests though, doesn't hurt to bring it up, but don't expect many changes.

I think a lot of guests think this forum works like ask.com, pose a question, get an answer and leave, like we are all on the CR4 staff, just waiting to give answers. Oh well.

Oh I dont expect to see a change. Just venting I guess.

Hi Marat,

You are right. There "is" no thanks or one for a solution if there is one, and when the blog is closed, we have no conclusion. It's the time to make some changes?? Want to see something, Gil.

While I agree with your comments, somewhat, on the nature of engineering types, the thing I noticed to be true about our sort of critter, is generally, they love to gab, no matter the method used. Hence my expectation of more in the way of interaction, I guess, from some who post here on CR4.

I agree but then we get into that issue/problem of who views what as being on topic or relevant or not.

Everyone who has ever been here for any period knows how that side tracking of a topic tends to run amok at times. One person decides another's comment is off topic because they just don't like that person or agree with them or don't like whatever. Plus the inflated ego issue blows up every now and then when someone has a fit about why their perceived good answers don't get voted as good answers while someone else's do.

I would go on but I may get voted off topic or be given another GA vote which could then trigger someone else into a fit of some sort as it occasionally does.

Hi Tech,

You are right. If someone like me, don't agree with the comments or suggest some modifications, you get punished. My name is note visible because I don't like to be insulted with dirty words, permitted, and I asked to be polite with me, not permitted.

Wait for changes, Gil.

but you sign you posts. : )

Hi Phoenix,

Yes, I sign every comment I make. I was registered but someone was insulted me (with approval because they let the comment edited) and I asked to be polite or don't answer. I never insulted anyone, I think I am reasonably educated to be able to speak with anyone about any subjects or issues as said. I have opinions that's all!

I discover, when I tell some truth about something or correct or add to a comment, certain attacks my English (I speak, write and read three languages) but the same person never did to anyone, more, help and support the person write down things completely irrealistic and incomprehensible. See, "Innovation 101" (09112010) between "S" and me, there are some comments.

Someone don't like me asnd I became a GUEST. It's the same as in hockey, someone slash you and you slash back, you get the 2 minute penalty and the initiator laughs.

I just continue to add my comments with my signature on, and that the way I eventually can help someone, Gil.

Well, being a member helps, they can select email alert......but as guest, that makes it very hard if the guest is just passing through

What must it be like to live in tcmtech world! Pretty funny!

[edit, after seeing your #7] To the contrary! I believe your #2 to be valid and correct answer to the OP. As a bonus, it was pretty funny! I vote GA.

Registered users can subscribe to threads and be notified of new comments to posts:
http://cr4.globalspec.com/blogentry/12859

This is an incentive for Guests to register - they can more easily track the reponses to their questions.

Yup, agreed.

IMHO, I have said this many times, registration of those who use this great resource should be mandatory. Would that help this issue, I am not sure, but, sure could not hurt.

What you should have done, is started this thread and then not posted back to it.............just to make your point.

LOL... I was thinking of doing just that for a sec or two. Did not want to be guilty of that which I am complaining about.

Yes, I think if a person is a guest then there is more anonymity and so less feeling of accountability. This adds to the fact that the disembodied online world is a place where people can feel more able to manifest their antisocial behaviour which the "real" world ,with people looking at you to keep you on track ,prohibits. Mind you its talking utter drivel (and compounding it with dreadful spelling) bothers me just as much. (I was reading a thread on people thinking evolution is something to object to.) But I am British so naturally an exception. david in u.k.

Hi Another Guest,

Guests are for reasons, good or bad, decided by someone. I became Guest because someone told me that I was "stupide" and I have the courage to tell in the following comment that I want respect and no dirty words on my person. I never insult a human being! It's like in hockey, someone hit you illegally and you fight back, you get the 2 minutes and the other can laugh. 9 out of 10 is that way!

Concerning the answers and comments, there is too many talking, well talking people get good scores. I am sure that they never did nothing important because they have theoritical and lawyer type conversation to impress, and they often do.

Like last week, someone told that my English should be better or not very good but I am sure they well understood what I wanted to say. However, his language is completely confusing and means nothing positive for the subject, but get good words for talking about dreams. If you want to see something : check "Innovation 101". It's sometimes incredible!

I don't want to get justice, I would like to see constructive critics on the subject and not on the person. I am a proud Canadian and it can be a handycap. Also, direct talk is my way to tell something, good or bad for someone else. I have my opinion realistic or not, Gil.

NB: Also, I sign my comments all the time!

Gil, I think saying what we think is mostly a good idea. Also there are a lot of valid reasons why a person might have poor english. I think that whoever it was that was calling you stupid was showing a lack of class. david

I agree, those who tend to call people stupid are invariably insecure in their own knowledge and need to debase others that they may feel better about themselves. We are all "stupid" about something.

"We are all "stupid" about something."

Actually I would disagree with that statement. We may all be ignorant of something but that is cureable by obtaining knowledge. Stupid on the other hand is when someone has the knowledge and still does the wrong thing. There is no cure for this.

Maybe its an error to tag another as stupid at all. Some peoples behaviour might seem as if they know a thing and yet are acting in a contrary way...but often there are other ,quite rational, imperatives acting on that person that they themselves may not be able to articulate or maybe are only dimly aware of. But more than anything, I think that words like "stupid" are used as a weapon against others whose views or behaviour implicitly place question marks against our vision of ourselves as being a coherent and valuable person, or even put a question mark against our own sanity. Sometimes I sit in a cafe and talk with a friend about ghosts/quantum entanglement/possible gods/time dilation/what exactly is an electron etc. I have noticed that other people can resent such talk to a surprising degree when they overhear it, and maybe they would use words like stupid. After all, its not talk about tax returns or the price of coal or who is sleeping with who. Such talk carries with it powerful implications of a non obvious sort. I mean it implies that I have freedom and time to be able to prioritise such talk over talk of things like the price of coal and butter. It implies that ones head is not so full of debris that one can think of things other than the rubbish left in so many heads by parents and society . Maybe it implies that one is comfortable in one own skin? I think thats how it can look to an outside observer regardless of how much these things are true of the speaker. And I think such implications and the emotions they can stir up are non trivial and can evoke real resentment (sometimes disguised as objections to the ideas being discussed) and maybe in situations like these words like stupid get wheeled out. david in U.K.

Hi Mortoch,

I agree that it hurts inside of you but it's unfair to tell you. Unfair if it's wrong and also unfair when is right! Respect is important because you never know when you need help from someone else!

Yes, we all are stupide about something and sometime but not all the time, and the qualificative is for all the time, sticking to you, Gil.

Hi David,

I agree with what you say. However, no one is perfect in any language because perfection doesn't exist. I speak, write, and read three languges but I learned in school only one, and I can say I learned before the school during WWII from my mother, and perfected in school. I was able to write and read when I went to school. English and French was learned with contact at work and normal way in the streets. I do business for years, in both languages, and I never have difficulties to transfer my solutions to my superiors, sales people in the past, or actually to my customers. Also, if someone tells me that my English is off, never was told that this or that must be changed. I simply explain. They don't! It's probably the difference?

Yes, it was lack of class and more importantly, lack of knowledge about the subject in evolution, Gil.

Hi another Guest,

I became a GUEST because I told a person with good notes that I don't want to be insulted and told that I am STUPID. I answered politely like all the time I do. I never attack the person who wrote something, I just criticize or comment its note.

Someone judge that dirty words are better than polite but honest conversations, Gil.

About that anonymity thing...

NY Times' Julie Zhuo has some interesting commentary on it:

Where Anonymity Breeds Contempt

...and Guest does not get an e-mail telling him that someone has responded. So, he goes to the list of threads, and promptly gets lost in the 1,120 pages of forum threads...

I fully agree, registration should be mandatory and so I rated North of 60 (#6) and yours (#14) as GA's.

But since this topic has come up a couple of times before, I wonder about the arguments against mandatory registration? Anybody?

1. Exploring CR4 without registering is a valuable exposure tool- I myself spent some time visiting the site unregistered before deciding this was a place I wanted to participate (of course, in my exploratory phase, I did very little posting- mostly just reading. It was when I realized I perhaps had something of value to contribute that I decided to register). There are a number of "Guests" (which may include a number of registered users who "forget" to register) that do offer meaningful content.

However,

2. All too often, the "Guests" that respond to many threads apparently are here to "shoot the off topic breeze", or more ominously, to attempt to start a "flaming" war (I have never figured out the motivation for such flaming sparks, but it seems to be a major hobby for certain types of people- more so on a lot of other sites than for this one. Perhaps the motivation for sparking antagonism is a way of asserting one's significance in the bigger scheme of things? "See what a row I started! I must be important- people take me seriously!")

I can understand a newbie wanting to remain anonymous if they lack confidence in their own technical skills, and these are the people we should be most willing to help. On the other hand, I get especially aggravated by those who can't be bothered to use proper English (I refer to those who want to use "tweet" style shortcuts, not those who are obviously not native English speakers).

But now I find myself driffting off-topic...maybe I should post this as Guest...

I've got plenty of posts in my repertoire, where I wish I wasn't registered at the time, but, C'est la vie.

The ridiculous threads that pop up, and the obvious attempts to start wars, are easy enough to ignore, although I'll admit, sometimes it gets tempting to jump in and throw some gas on the fire.

Hi Warner,

This one of many GUESTs but I sign all my comments critical or not but most of the time, about the subject as a contributor to the forum. Warner, you already received many comments from me in the past, isn't it? I got good answer too but many others, completely out of logic or the subject got good answer with high scores. I think the text checker is a computer and recognize certain words to accept for good or off topic. I discover that using complicated words saying nothing or completely off, can be rewarding, quoted as good. Also, simple and logical writing is not the most effective, quoted off topic. Same in the world. More complicated more appreciated. Simple and logic are rejected. We have to tell people to use the method KISS because no one is using. Why is that way.

Samething happened, not onse but practically all the time, when I sold certain coating formulations to companies. They paid for it but immediately modified and get into trouble by being refused by customers. They called me back and paid again for telling that they have to repeat the formula and customers will be happy, which was done. Incredible, isn't it? But the world is that way!

Here with this blog, we are digging out many problems and finally someone learn about it and probably act to change little bit or lots, Gil.

In response...

1) Yes I would. Often times... we see excellent posts by guests that clearly have much to offer the cR4 community, those guests should register and contribute. Other times... guest offer not much more then rancour and strife. The number of times where a guest is arguing with another guest in a given thread is laughable. Those guests need to find other playpens in which to play in. The guest label allows uncontrolled "playing".

Tying a name to an individual in this forum in no way shape or form causes one to loose anonymity in any way what so ever. Some of us choose to identify where on the planet we live and make it easier, given the search tools on the net today, to be identified. I could just as easily self identify as "Joe Blow" who lives in Shangri-La.

2) Bruised feelings has nothing to do with it so there is nothing to get over, this is an attempt to improve the forum. As to priorities, each of us is free to consider what is a priority and what is not.

3) When a thread is posted here by anyone, guest or not, I feel that a genuine need is present. If in fact such a need exists, follow up by the OP is the least that one should expect.

4) No argument there on the social part. Guests need to appreciate that being a "guest" in a place, or "home", requires a certain amount of tact and manners. If some of these guest acted the way that some do here on the forum, at my home, they would not be a "guest" to long. A little class is called for if you ask me.

I was merely being the devil's advocate and posting as if I were the owner of this site, not everything reflects my personal feelings, necessarily.

Although, after wandering out into the web and seeing all of the crap out there, all in all, this is a very tame place.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. I'd rather wade through some dumb threads and pointless arguments, than to have all out censorship, which would be determined by the moderator on duty.

You kind of made my point in your last post.....the people that are going to post ridiculous threads or start stupid arguments, are going to do it whether they are registered or not. Either way, it's something we all have to learn to live with. Registering is not going to make them smart or nice.

Members argue too.........should anything that could be construed as an argument be banned? Where do we draw the line?

I'm not even disagreeing with you. The point I'm trying to make, is that if we were successful in getting admin. to change the rules, it could have unintended consequences that none of us would like.

All in all, things work pretty well here.

I am not suggesting we ban arguments. Not at all... I am suggesting that a 20 post thread where "Guest" A is arguing with "Guest" B is non-sensical and almost imposible to decide who said what.

Couldn't the problem of undistinguishable Guests be (simply?) resolved by having them automatically(?) numbered and thus "identified", based on their IP-address?

Change the channel and go to another thread. That's what I do.

I do agree, it's impossible to tell if it's one schizophrenic guest fighting with himself, or if there are 10 of them. Remember though, members can vote guests posts off topic, and essentially bury their idiocy. No report button needed.

If I got on here just to argue, I'd damned sure want everyone to know who I am.

The line most definitely ought to be drawn at personal insult and name-calling. Challenging one's technical expertise is not necessarily a personal attack, but suggesting one is composed of post-processed nutritional input, or that one resembles some anatomical feature, or many other such insults, should be moderated. Unless, of course, the insulter has come up with a really cute way to rephrase the common vernacular...

I know, and those posts are usually shot down pretty quickly.

As far as identifying guests, I don't know. Since this is a free site, I don't really expect them to dedicate a lot of time to things that don't directly have a positive impact on GlobalSpec as a whole. Can't blame them either.

Giving each guest a number as it relates to each individual thread, based on IP address, sounds like a challenge........even if they were getting paid for it.

A guest could be guest #1 on one thread and guest #23 on another, combined with the fact that at any given time there might be 150+ guests online.......... could get confusing on their end. Or at least, not easy.

Hi Marat,

You want to participate in good faith and add something to the subjects in question. Also, you have the courage and politeness to sign your comments. I am not sure, it's education or something else but you words must be yours and put down your name on it, irrevelent your comment is appreciated by others. It's your knowledge or knowhow, and your involvement to the conversation.

I see CR4 as a good place to have conversation with others, and I subscribed to CR4 for that.

Who is the judge? Who lets write some words and no anothers? I don't know but the person or group have to change their attitude because many intelligent and positive comments will not seen on the screen because of that.

After me, all opinions are good, must be analyzed but shown to everyone. It's possible to put some note that must be seen such way and not another.

In interesting questions, we have more and more hidden notes, which are considered off topics. However, another people are judged unjustly. The world is not perfect too, Gil.

NB: The reply to answers and comments is a starting point to get some changes?

2) Being a technical forum, the bruised feelings of members due to lack of response is not a high priority. Get over it.

On a post that at times seems abandon by the OP, the members and some guests would debate and discuss the post, as it raises questions and issues, or it breaks off on a tangent and creates a life of its own, which each post can almost guarantee that

Absolutely, that's part of the fun.

Nuf fun had then?

Never ending story part 654783. Just a glimpse is sometimes necessary to sort the good from the bad. No worries for me. Gil does get on my nerves but then again I told him in public that he should pull his head in.

Gotta go, Ky.

You know, you can't PM a guest other wise I would have done that.

Hi NO60,

I agree completely, which is why I TRY to always respond when I ask for help ... of course getting ME to talk is rarely a problem ... getting me to SHUT UP, well that is a totally different issue

Kind regards ...

LOL... you just made my point. Most engineering types are not short on words. It surprises me that the OPs dont return and partake in the process. They kind of negate the importance ot their posting by their actions.

I think we are all in agreement here.

When I answer a guest post or thread, I assume that I won't hear back and I'm usually right. When I do, it's a good thing.

I also don't get into lengthy responses to guests. If it's something I'm interested in knowing, I'll look it up. If it's something I know, and I can throw a quick post up......why not?

We aren't privy to the ins and outs of running this site and I'm sure there is a good reason for not requiring registration. The subject has been brought up many times.

Don't give them any ideas.......next they'll be wanting to charge us for being here.

What about me, I traveled half way round the world to answer a guest's question!

http://cr4.globalspec.com/thread/61027#newcomments

Of course I was going there anyway. Still that's dedication above and beyond a simple internet search over a cup of tea.

What annoys me the most is you take the time to answer a question, and then never hear anything back, you can never be sure if you have answered the poster's question or just wasted your time.

I would have thought the name of the CR4 website would be a big clue - 7th word "Discussion", this isn't a wordy version of Twitter after all.

I am out of tea, going to the kitchen to make another cup.

I agree completely. As one who posts almost exclusively as a "Guest", I have admonished OP's in several threads for seemingly never coming back to acknowledge the help offered them. And maybe, as suggested, if they posted as Guest, they have a harder time getting back to the thread they started. I've seen registered posters not come back either, though. (But as devil's advocate... what if they suddenly became ill after posting??)

I always attempt to post thoughtful and respectful responses. Posting as a Guest doesn't automatically mean you'll be a jerk, disrespectful, or troublemaker. I suppose there are some posting as Guests who feel this makes it easier to indulge in this sort of behavior. But I've seen plenty of posts by Guests that are every bit as good as those who have chosen to register. In my case, I'm not hiding. I just think any ideas and/or comments I post should stand on their own. To me, that matters more than "who" I am. Where more than a few are gathered, disagreeing with one another is more likely to happen than not. As long as the dialog or debate is respectful, I don't think "Guest" is that much less identifying than so many of the monikers used here? Sure you can click on the registered name and see more about the person posting, but if they've made you angry, how has knowing a little more about them helped your anger? It actually gives you a more concrete "thing" to keep your anger fanned. And you'll be more likely to filter any future posts by "Registered User" (fill-in the blank) through that memory.

I've said before and will continue to say, that, on balance, being allowed to post as a Guest here makes this one of the best forums to visit and exchange ideas. I haven't seen registration as any kind of guarantee that arguments won't get out of hand. That seems to be the nature of anger to begin with -- it quickly can become uncontrolled.

Having said that, I do understand the view of those who think registration should be required.

As far as I'm concerned, if a guest just goes through the simple act of placing his/her first name at the bottom of their posts, or some identifying mark, that works just as well as being registered. It does get confusing when there are two or more guests chiming in on one thread, whether they are arguing or not.

If one guest is contributing to a thread, and another wants to argue, we have no way of knowing who is who, or whether it is one guest or two. It's that confusion, in part, that fuels the animosity towards all guests.

I give you a GA for a balanced perspective, but one issue I would like to raise with you is this:

Let us say that your answer intrigues me sufficiently that I am interested in developing a more formal relationship with you, and would like to discuss the matter in a private message rather than in a public forum? The "formal relationship" may be a consulting or other business relationship that could prove lucrative to both of us, but I have no way of expressing such an interest, or determining if you have the true capabilities that I have inferred from your post. How do I contact you to explore such options?

This is not really all that hypothetical a situation- it does occur here, and there are a number of cases of members corroborating on a variety of projects off line (OK, some of them are just for fun, but some have resulted in mutually beneficial financial arrangements...)

I, for one, love this website and wish I had stumbled on it years ago. I have had some of the most intellectually stimulating conversations of my entire life here. A thumbs up to all the participants.

Hio Mortoch,

I agree completely. Considering it's a free forum, it is and has been one of my best resources ... and 'playgrounds' for exchanging information. 99% great folks just livin' the life, trying to find the edges of their own 'universe'.

Some days are more difficult than others, but CR4 has become one of my relied upon daily exercises.

Kind regards ...

We are neighbors, I live in Shanghai but work in the FoHo Economic Developement Area

Wujaing City

My pet peeve is the OPs who give no location in their questions. I don't need to know your street address, but the proper answer to many questions (electrical comes to mind) is quite dependent on geographic location. Too many people take no consideration that this is a WORLD WIDE forum, and what works for me is totally fubar for someone in Europe or China or such. The inverse is also true. What works for them cannot work for me.

Bill

I usually delay any response until I think all replies have been submitted. I admit not making replies, but I do try.

I like to respond to as many replies as time permits and to say that an answer is helpful BUT ... and detail what I still don't understand. When my question is answered completely I like to thank the responders and let people know that I got what I needed so no one wastes time on a question already answered.