Liquid Piston Turbine Engine

Care to indulge us with a well written and scientifically accurate description of the whole system and its power cycles from start to finish including all used working media and their relative purposes, working pressures, and operating temperatures at each stage in said cycle/cycles?

Hello tcmtech

I only make them work, all other stuff is for others, not my feild.

Sorry about the small print with Blueprint. Every thing is there from start to finish, simplicity is the name of the game.

So you make them work? How?

If you have truly built more of these and they really do work then just by explaining how you assembled it and with what materials it can be at least partially reverse engineered to find out the basics of how and why it works.

Right now, given what all of your other threads on these subjects have shown, that statement of you making them work alone is likely not true already. Any person who supposedly built anything regardless of how simple or complex has some level of understanding of the physical process's that they used to get to the finished product.

If you said you built a fully functional space shuttle and launching system and we asked you what you used for materials and how you built it and you told us you put on a blind fold pick up and ax and a soldering gun and then thrash around and burn wildly and randomly for a day or two out in the woods where this shuttle system then appears we would know you are either lying delusional or just full of sh!t. Especially if you tell us you have it and use it but yet cant provide a single tangible picture or proof it even exists let alone works.

Sorry man but for the most part all of your supposed DAS energy schemes so far come off as unrealistic pseudo science nonsense and irrational dreaming in every sense of the terms.

We will play fair and listen with honest intent if you provide tangible answers to our questions otherwise you will once again get picked apart by most everyone who chooses to participate.

So for the first question, what is your official field of expertise anyway?

can't wait for the video

Hey now I am offering to play fair and be nice if he is willing to provide even the most basic elementary school level descriptions of the what and why of his supposed devices and the processes that create them.

Let me know when it comes out in braille ... I'd like to get my fingers on it. yar yar yar.

Hello tcmtech,

To answer your question, I have no feild of expertise. I just observe whats happening then apply that somewhere else.

My 8 year old niece can build a black power rocket using my brothers fireworks manufacturing equipment. She does not understand the physics chemistry or even the proper names of the chemicals or tooling but that doesn't prevent her from being able to give me 8 year old explanation of how a homemade rocket is built or works. And then on top of it she can produce a working demonstration any time anyone wants!

So if an 8 year old can explain rocket physics in 8 year old based terms and still have adults without knowledge of rocket building techniques understand what she is doing I think you probably can explain your stuff too.

If you want us to take you the least bit seriously then just explain what you see and materials you build it with and consider your being held to nothing higher than an 8 year olds toy rocket building abilities.

I am still trying to play nice this time.

"I have no feild[sic] of expertise." Yo, that's for damn sure.

SWEEET!!! I was hoping there would be more just in time for Christmas!!!

Thanks for coming through for me Das

Hello ChaoticIntellect

Thank you. Its hard being a bush bred boy. I tinker around and get things going but that is as far my knowledge goes. Bit like being hit with a brick I have no idea about the physics of flight and brick density I just know by experience its bloody hurts.

I post things after getting them going so others can do their thing and explain all the sciences involved. Not my feild at all.

Looks like a complicated way to flush a toilet.

Complicated enough to be a bidet?

One could repurpose it as a still, if that hasn't been done already. If you burn the produced alcohol to distill the next batch...voilà...perpetual emotion.

What has happened to us? We've become a pack of pecking vultures. No mercy anywhere. Even with one of our own.

Ok, DaS Energ how does this thing work. And how much power can it produce?

one of our own?......well, I guess some insects do eat their young.. ; )

Hello lynlynch:

Thanks for the question.

Start the whole thing is full of water up to the top of the turbine but the water receiver compression tank is empty and the pressure reseviour if full of air.

Air leaks from the pressure reseviour into the short pipe full of water with fuel floating on top.

When enough air has been leaked from pressure reseviour into short pipe compression builds up against the hydro turbine causing the fuel brought in by water flow and now floating on top of the water to ignite.

Hot gas forces water out of the short pipe through the turbine and into the collector tank.

The rising water in the collector tank compresses the air into the pressure reseviour.

When the hot gas force drives all water from the short pipe, it also forces all water out of the outside timing pipe.

Hot gas from the short pipe now rises in the tall pipe untill it reaches the top pushing water down inside the tall pipe.

The float blocking exhaust exit no longer having water to float on falls away from blocking exhaust hole.

The water now filling the collector tank seeks to drain back into short pipe, and is aided by the turbine vane a bottom of turbine acting like a throw pump.

Water rushes back filling the short and long pipe, and in doing so creates a vacuum in the collector tank drawing in air awaiting the next compression.

Because one end of the timing pipe is higher in the tall pipe, the timimng pipe refills only after the short pipe has filled ensuring no gas pocket is trapped.

Its important that the loop in the timiming pipe is such that it blows clear at the same time hot gas is flowing into the tall pipe, otherwise if it blows early a full liquid piston stroke will not occurr.

When the whole thing is full of water again compressed air in the pressure reseviour trickles into the short pipe and rises to the surface through the fuel surface floating on the water.

Eventualy the trickle air has reached such compression in the short pipe the air/fuel combusts.

Constant air trickle causes no problems however some pressured air is lost during refill, so trickle should be geared to create bubble in returning water to minimise air loss.

The only science I know about the energy in and out, is that the hydro turbine itself is 80% efficient. The system works on the same pricipal as solid piston pressure combustion engines.

That is where my knowledge stops.

How did you calculate that the hydro turbine is 80% efficient?

Hello Tornado

I am reliant upon California University School of Hydro Turbine power generation.

80% efficient turbine receiving flow of 1 litre per second at 9 bar pressure produces 720 watts.

That is almost completely irrelevant to your application. Hydraulic turbines and combustion engines are quite different processes. There may be some relation, but not straight across.

Not only that, but the 80% hydraulic efficiency is for a fairly large and well designed system, not for tinker-toy contraptions.

Hello Tornado:

80% efficiency is actualy quite low for a hydro turbine, Pelton. Turgo and Francis all have higher efficiency, and the good thing is little ones can be bought of the internet

Some efficiency however is los with the friction created by the waters internal drag against the piping.

That failed to answer the question, as usual.

Hello, I'm building a 7kw system with 53ft head and 1 to 3 cfs. I have looked on the internet for used or new reaction turbines but the internet is a hugh place. I'm not finding anything that fits my specs. Do you know of any source that fits? Charlie

Hello Charlie,

The head waters you have certainly have the height, however I am unsure if you have the flow needed for 7Kw. My micro turbine charts are elsewhere at the moment.

Should you be able to obtain a constant flow of 2 litres per second I think you are on a winner.

I would look under micro Pelton Wheel and Turgo as a good start point.

I suspect that arithmetic is imprecise. Please show some valid work. And so what, anyway--how does it pertain to your turbine?

Hello Tornado:

Having an 80% efficient turbine, and the only other energy loss being the water rubbing on the sides of pipe. Those in the know to combustion output of Diesel will be able to calculate size to Kilowatt.

Wrong again. We don't know that your turbine is 80% (0.80) efficient, and you don't either. Even if we assume it is 50% (0.50) efficient, which is ridiculously optimistic; and if we then combine it with your cockamamie combustion process, generously estimated at 20% efficient (0.20); the combined efficiency would be 0.20 x 0.50 = 0.10 = 10%. And that's if you're really lucky.

You haven't given us even a single useful reading of temperature, pressure, speed, energy input, or energy output of this process. And you steadfastly refuse to provide this essential information. Instead you call out people by name and spew uncogent replies.

You are free, of course, to be as offensively incompetent and impolite as you choose. And you will continue to get a frosty reception here.

Turbine full of water? Air leaks or is displaced? fuel (gasoline, diesel?) and there is enough compression to combust latent fuel floating around on water from a turbine full of water? Arrgh, I think a match would, maybe, be more effective. There are way to many holes in this idea. Not trying to be mean at all, learn more about physics.

I started to write a response to this idea but realize I really don't have the time for this! After a second read, it's just not scientifically sound, sorry.

The thing is unlike you those flying bicycle builders you keep unjustly comparing yourself to they could and would explain the how and whys of what they built and where very willing to demonstrate the working principals behind what they did and how it works. On top of that they did tell people why they used specific types of cloths and specific types of wood and metals for every part of their designs because they wanted others to see how they did it.

By you continue comparing yourself to them all you do is bring down what their name and accomplishments stand for.

Hello tcmtech

Excepting fuel of choice, all has been supplied Hydro turbine, water pipe, flap valve and float. Thats all there is!

Crankshafts goes round and around pistons goes up and down just like merry-go- rounds and elivators. Thats how a diesel engine works and thats all there is to know as to how to build one.

Yea, okay I am sure thats all Rudolf Diesel knew and needed in order to build his first engines too.

Hello tcmtech

Follow the picture its all there. Everything one needs to know is in the instructions.

Should you not be able to copy by whats shown and written, ask a specific question you may get a specific answer.

Yes and I and a number of others have asked specific questions and so far like in all of your threads here we never get any real answers.

Cryptic quotes and references to a poorly drawn and labeled sketch are not answers.

1. What compression ratio does this thing use if it based on a compression ignition system? Answer this in a solid X:1 compression ratio and nothing else.

2. What materials is the unit built out of?

3. What temperature range are the components being subjected too specifically the cylinder cavities, float valves, and liquid piston?

4. What method of turbine are you using axial or radial?

These are basic questions that even a high school student could answer if they built such a device as you suggest you have.

Hello tcmtech

Dont know the answers in the form you want, however.

1. 6" diameter pipe requires 150 PSI pressure to obtain combustion.

2. Water pipe.

3. No idea, the water begins to boil off into steam at +100*C.

4. Dont know. Copied the Mitchel turbine contruction of cut and weld pipe.

None of this makes any sense at all. We are dealing with someone who knows absolutely nothing.

1. Shows you have absolutely no understand if what the term compression ratio means let alone how much pressure is involved in getting diesel fuel to ignite from said compression levels.

2. WTF? water pipe? I cant even Begin to guess at what age a child starts to distinguish the differences between common metals, plastic, wood, concrete or, rubber. As an adult with the ability to at least type and work a computer I cant even give you the full doubt credit of being mentally handy caped to the level of not being able to understand the question let alone describe the material you supposedly used.

3. Again this shows you have no comprehension of T/P curves related water or how compressive forces changes the boiling point of water.

4. I gave you a 50/50 choice where either would have been a valid answer and you still missed it. If you don't know the difference between the two turbine designs and how the working media travels through them that would strongly indicate you have absolutely no understanding of how any of this supposed stuff you claim even works let alone the intuitive capacities to have ever managed to assemble any of it.

If this was a school quiz I dare say you somehow managed to score a -8 in a 4 point quiz that hand no real wrong answers as long as it answered intelligently.

Come on ... you don't know what a water pipe is? ... It is the root cause of all his Ideas.

Hello naturalextraction:

Please dont feel bad, its highly uncomplicated technology and quite novel.

If its of help take a peice of garden hose bend it so both open ends are at egual elevation, now fill with water and blow into one end of the hose. Water shoots out. next send that water through a hydro turbine and it will spin. For the compression experiment get an empty sealed container then insert into it a garden hose attached to a tap, turn the tap on and water will compress the air until it bursts the container or the water needs more pressure going in. For vacuum take a sealed container with a one way valve going into it, now insert a garden hose and let the water in the sealed container drain out through the hose, fresh air will be sucked into the container. The air sucked in then then like the air in the container gets compressed by water coming in. The water filling the tank to its brim forces compressed air into the pressure reseviour.

The water in the pipe work behind the turbine is at low pressure upon refill. By letting high pressure air trickle from the pressure reseviour into the short pipe, the air will rise to the surface, and the more pressured air trickled in the higher the pressure becomes in the pipe work. The larger the diameter of the pipe the less air pressure needed to cause the Diesel to ignite.

"...fill with water and blow into one end of the hose. Water shoots out." This would indicate that you have a pressurized system. Diesel laying on top of the water is what has to be compressed. So your compressing water as well(?) First the compressibility of water is influenced by its temperature. Ambient atmosphere?

Diesel engines compress up to typically 500psi or 8 to 15 bar. Bringing the temperature to about 550C degrees. Something would have to motivate a turbine if it's job is to compress. That I can see, however not water and also the water would absorb so much heat energy....so instead of getting into all that and waste more time here, I wont on this subject, go and build it. If you truly believe it will work you'll get it done.

I don't make any claims to the ideas I invent that I can't back up with appropriate testing with the prototypes I build. For investors, much less those in the scientific community, whom they will go to for confirmation of your idea, credibility is critical and essential. Tossing the idea into this forum and making substantial claims without critical data to support your claims or a working prototype is futile.

G'day Mate

I saw the title first, then the date, then the Das Energy. Some masochistic desire got me to see what he is up to now. It's the same old story and it borders on tragic. Then I saw you trying to be diplomatic and thought, it would be good to relieve you of your feeling that you might be hurting someone.

I would have a few things to say about what he is suggesting but will refrain because it is his home work, second degree, guilty! (Worse than the other beloved guests). He is at a stage were he thinks that he has built something but hasn't yet.

If he would have (_{built one}) he would know what we know. So its all a dead giva away, at least for me it is.

He has not even taken the time (not only in this new thread) to put himself in a position which would allow teaching, from people who have communicated far more thought through concepts of engine systems of various make.

There are so many things that infer the suggested "technology" as being simple that I wonder......., like I said, I'll leave him to doing it the hard way. I had to do what I had to do myself actually. It will take another few years until I publish though or even think about it.

And then the "but, but the ..... 'I am a genius' and, and' you all just don't get it" is very arrogant as well as unintelligent and counter productive. It is delusional and not worth assisting, I think. Maybe medication? Nuff said anyway.

Good to hear from you again and hope all goes much more betterer for all of us in the year 11.

Greetings, Ky.

So it's a steam engine, then?

Could you post it as a pdf or a link. I can't even see it well enough to tell what I'm looking at, and reading the print is impossible.

Hello kramarat

Pressured air rising in short pipe creates an air pocket in the short pipe containing water upon which fuel floats.

Ignition can be by compression caused by the incoming air from prssure reseviour, or spark.

High pressure gas forces down on the water expelling it from the short pipe into the turbine and then on into the empty receiver tank which in filling with water compresses air into the pressure reseviour.

The lengthening gas pocket coming out of the short pipe trips the gas release letting the gas out and allowing the water to return filling the short pipe.

The water returning creates a vacuum in the receiever tank drawing in fresh air.

The outside timing pipe is positioned with low end in short pipe and high end in tall pipe so timing pipe can only refill after the short pipe is full. That prevents any gas pocket being trapped in the short pipe by the returning water.

Upon filling the filling the short pipe with water the water goes on to top up the tall pipe there floating the float in the tall tank sealing off the exhaust hole.

Air pressure from the pressure reseviour trickling into the short pipe builds up compression to point of ignition.

Air trickle from pressure reseviour should be so that an air bubble travels with water returning returning into the short pipe.

However its only air so any loss is negible.

Removing fuel and surrounding the short and long pipe with a hot water jacket into which hot air exhausts creates a hot air engine.

Sorry,

This lost me. "water with fuel floating on top." How does the fuel get there? How does the fuel ignite? Where does the spent gas go? What WORK can it do? Etc etc etc.

Hello lynlynch

Diesel, Petrol, Oil and Gas all float on top water.

Venturing fuel into water returning to fill short pipe does away with Diesel pump and injectors.

Air trickle from pressure reseviour builds up in compression within the short pipe untill ignition occurs, or alternately spark ignition may be used.

Working in the same manner Diesel engines use compression of air to ignite the fuel, which in the case of Diesels is injected in.

"Air trickle from pressure reseviour builds up in compression within the short pipe untill ignition occurs"

Don't expect anyone to believe that you can make fuel auto-ignite with water in a tube.

Good bye.

What happens to the waste heat? How would it be dissipated?

Hello Unredundant:

Waste heat can go anywhere, there is no solid insides to expand ripping the thing apart, unlike other engines no piston, no rings etc etc .

So whats with the linking everyones name on your responses?

Hello tcmtech

Unlike that you see laying in city gutters, country folk are taught to be polite.

So how do you figure that to be an answer to my question?

A white bird fly's in the snowstorm but no one notices?

I think that you are all failing to see what we have in front of us. If you combine what bwire showed us in thread 63817 with what we are shown in this thread we have a perpetual energy machine that can solve all of the worlds energy problems and make us all rich. This is a great find. We haven't had anyone offer to solve the world's energy problems for 2 or 3 weeks now. It's been a long, dry spell and I am happy to be back in the perpetual motion business.

In addition, if we pull the plug out, turn it around and put it back in the wall I think we can help out thread 63630 and use this to trace the pesky pipe that is in the wall.

Hello BruceFlorida:

No, not perpetual motion constant heating is required.

How many Btu/h of constant heating? And how many Btu/h do you get back out? If you can't tell us these numbers, you need to engage someone who can. It is completely dishonest to solicit us to prove your nonsense.

Hello Tornado:

No soliciting, just Open Technology free to those who wish to copy.

Once again, that is completely NOT to the point. "Free" = "worth every penny", and it might also sidestep charges of fraud.

It's not elaborate enough to be fraud. Imagine a Judge dealing with that matter. It would be on funniest court scenes in a flash, if there is such a thing.

Uh, I'm no thermodynamic expert, but it seems to me that even if this device were to work, water would make a pretty heavy piston.

Any claimed efficiency and energy output would be used mostly to push the water from point A to point B, which would leave the actual usable output of this machine at next to nothing.

I would also think, that within the combustion chamber, detonation would have to create exactly the same amount of pressure, simultaneously, across the the entire top surface of the water piston. The slightest deviation in downward pressure and it would be like throwing a firecracker on a pool of water, the surface tension would be broken and you would end up with more of a splash than a bang.

You say that there are no rings, but the entire column of water will be acting as the rings, this will produce far more drag than what is produced in current IC engines.

Congratulations!, You have dreamed up an IC engine that replaces lightweight pistons and rings, that are proven to work, with a heavy column of water.

Let's just say that I'm a long way from being sold.

water does make a heavy piston. Just look at the water column (head) and the potential energy of fuel. You'll see there are problems......like I said earlier, I can't wait to see the working model. But I woun't hold my breath

Let me quote from his posting: "6" diameter pipe requires 150 PSI pressure to obtain combustion" If this is true, how many PSI is required to obtain combustion in a 4 inch pipe?

Seems to me that if this statement were true, pipelines all over the world would have exploded long ago.

I'm trying to restrain myself from saying what I really feel. In the days before restraint (DBR) I'd have just called him a flaming idiot. But, as you can see, those days are over.

I'll be very happy for you when you are rich and famous!

Hello kramarat:

Thank you, however I am already famous for other reasons, and getting rich by inventing new technology to releive our Planets Carbon blanket is not my desire.

Mind you I would be if I took a dollar for each time personal contacts and inspections got all disapointed when I would not alow them to Patent the DaS Valve, the heart of each new model.

Oh........ well since you're already famous, maybe you could share some of your great works with this lowly bunch. I'm sure everyone here would be thrilled to be able to say that they conversed with a famous person.

It seems odd that someone that is already famous would still crave attention to the extent that you do.

Hello kramarat:

Not unless you need a precident set in the House of Lords, or Courts in Australia, or need a Council knocking out by a retired Councilor.

Love it the way you jump to your own ideas and try to make it sound like it was coming a mind older than a five year old.

That's the problem with politicians..............they all think they are brilliant and famous.

I'm done here, bye.

Be careful what you ask for. He is already sharing with us one of his great works.

Hello lynlynch:

Sorry you will need to a Diesel mechanic for pressure on a 4" inch pipe. However I do know that as the diameter decreases the pressure needs for combustion increase.

You'll stand a better chance of getting some work out of this than you will out of your contraption.

This "turbine engine" (an oxymoron if ever there was) probably has an efficiency slightly better than that of a dippy-bird. (Just giving discredit where discredit is due.)

Couldn't resist.

Another item of total baloney....

Sorry I haven't gone through all your posts (both here and in your previous threads), but have you actually tried to build your device(s) to prove/validate your own designs/principles at least to some degree?

Your comments seem to indicate you actually do to some extent, but your other comments and our (as in myself and others here on CR4) understanding of the theory and practical sides of your designs would seem to say otherwise.

A good Christmas break project perhaps (just don't try building the thing out of glass).

Actually yes. Somewhere amongst all these threads there actually is a picture, which sort of resembles an Appalachian still. Maybe one of these days DaSEnergy will tell us how many Btu/h he gets out of a log, and how many of those Btu/h actually make their way into useful energy input. But don't hold your breath--we haven't seen any quantitative data yet.

Is that a 6 diametrical pressure Diesel log, or 0.8 of a 4 DP spark ignition log?

Hello jack of all trades:

Yes all the device/s has been built and worked, though not specificaly in the shape drawn, a bit more clumsy with flex hoses etc where nice solid piping etc would be far more presentable.

One thing I have found in developing things is those who know what will happen dont. Plus if their spoon fed brain cant handle it it cant work as so many different things will happen, often wonder if they are rejects from Facebook, however out the mind numb mob always steps at least one person and that is why our work has now been taken world wide.

The answers I give are eye wittness to what actualy does happen not the humorous submission so oft appearing here telling me how its all wrong.

Should you wish to experiment yourself a centrifical pump, water pipe, (line pipe when using Co2) tennis ball, tap and strip of good leather is all that is needed. Dont oversize the exhaust hole or the tennis, now squash ball will become stuck and not drop at receding water level.

In CR4 you will find the DaS Valve, all our work centres round that.

Next mission to refine things further however money is always the thing.

By having a thread etched into extended turbine shaft greater vacuum can be had rather than relying on water fall vacuum 14.2 Psi.

Who are these alleged supporters?

you may have misunderstood some of the comments as being supportive

there have been many thoughtful relevant questions asked, you have not provided answers to any. nor will you ever

you just don't have it in you....