World Map Position: Why is North Up?

This sounds like one for 'Masu'.

He's asleep now.

Hi Gwen. I see that you are not asleep. Spencer.

As all the world's time zones reduce into two singularities, one at the North Pole, the other at the South, it could be said that time has no meaning at these locations!

It should be "Have a nice anytime".

Thank you. I've made other plans, predicatbly.

The UK changed to the metric system around 1970, and it is an offence for shopkeepers to sell goods by (solely) imperial measurements, BUT:

UK road distances are still measured in miles - even distances to obstacles, like hidden crossings, are marked in yards. No imperial units have been taught in school since the change.

Nice to see logical government

Ah! Convention.

Milk is still packaged in aliquots of 568ml, and beer sold in the same measure. Some people call this unit a 'pint'.

A time ago I had to purchase tubes cut in lenghts of 1,50 meters (1,500mm) in USA. The seller told me they did not know how much I wanted as they used Imperial instead of metric. I asked for 5 Feet of this tube... and the guy said he could not process my order because they did not sell this product for the Foot. After scratching my head for some sec´s I asked: what about 60 inches? Guy said: yes sir, no problem at all!

<Rant>

Same thing with wood. Plywood is sold in metric thicknesses here, though in 8ft x 4ft sheets. Softwood, on the other hand, is sold in metric sizes, say 45 x 15mm planed-all round, in lengths of a multiple of a metric foot - 300mm - which is actually a gnat's shorter than 11 & 13/16in. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!

</Rant>

If it's 3 o'clock on the ground, and the plane up in the sky is flying across several time zones, what time is it onboard the plane at the instant one looks at the clock on the ground?

Time for a drink

Hi Gwen. I'l have a Westmalle double thanks. Spencer.

In regard to your question: planes refer to their local time whilst in flight, cause it is easier to determine duration of flight (important for calculating remaining fuel). Once they touch ground, they change to local time: Recall what flight attendants say "Welcome to XXX, temperature is XX, local time is XXX" When you get your meals on East to West flights, they are also referred to local time of departure airport : you may be getting dinner, while people on ground are having breakfast and so on

Then was Einstein correct to discard the concept of absolute time on the basis of each observer having his own measure?

Einstein had no clue: he went to US by sea!

Hi PWSlack. I'll drink to that. Spencer.

Various examples of metric/imperial conversion from you guys, but:

The 8' x 4' sheets are sold as 1440 x 2880mm - imperial not allowed.

The "pints" are sold as 568ml, with the imperial value as a "guide".

And on the roads, cars must have dual readings for the speedo (don't know how that works with the digital ones, though), but the enforcers of metrication (government) have never got round to putting dual distances on signs (except heights/widths of bridges).

In USA I recently saw a funny sign on a road: "NEXT EXIT 1/10 MILE"

Is 1/10 Metric or imperial?

Hi r7ddoc. Its imperial, 1/10 of a mile = 176 yards or 528 feet. Spencer.

Hi r7ddoc. Its imperial, 1/10 of a mile = 176 yards or 528 feet. Spencer.

Hi Spencer, I have never been very bright in maths, but 1/10 is decimal

If Imperial measures are still used in USA, why don´t they write: Next exit 176 yards ?

It's imperial, 1/10 of a mile = 176 yards or 528 feet. Spencer.

Hi Spencer, I have never been very bright in maths, but 1/10 is decimal

If Imperial measures are still used in USA, why don´t they write: Next exit 176 yards ?

Oh, it is MUCH worse than that! Every mechanical odometer I've ever seen reads in tenths; this is a very natural consequence of the fact that the individual Geneva-wheels are arranged to advance one tooth after the one adjacent has gone around ten times. If wheels from the same mold are used thoughout the mechanism, the easiest subdivision in a U.S.-specification car will be tenths of miles. But until relatively recently, I had never seen a road sign that advised distance to the next exit or other feature in terms of tenths of miles; instead, they give distances such as 2 - 1/4 or 1 - 1/2 miles. LOGICALLY, you'd expect use of, say, 1.3 or 2.5 miles, but I have never seen it done. I HAVE now seen signs saying something was 1/10th mile further, but never 3/10ths or similar. And the sign said "1/10" rather than "0.1" mile.

In other words, tenths result from the use of a base-ten numbering system, not at all upon the measuring system chosen.

Now that most cars come with electronic displays for their odometer function, some switchable between metric and Traditional British units, there is no reason that the display could not increment in quarter miles to match the signage, but I have not seen it offered. And frankly, the use of quarter-mile increments would be far too coarse for practicality.

It is imperial.

The metric notation would be 0.1 mile.

This is still imperial, since the units are imperial. You're confusing fractional notation with decimal notation.

Fraction is 1/10

Decimal is 0.1

Miles are imperial (and long my we keep them in the UK!)

Kilometres are metric (dang the French!)

What I tried to state was that a fractional notation is totally imperical, in the metric system the fractional notation is never used.

The coincidence of 1/10 mile is imperial.

As you state 0.1 mile is also imperial. With metric influence as the fraction is replaced by a decimal notation.

have never got round to putting dual distances on signs (except heights/widths of bridges).

Yet they manage to put Gaelic everywhere ! I'm all for celebrating culture , but how many people speak Gaelic for **** sake . Have it on Menus and tourist stuff , but what a waste of money - It's a flippin' oral language anyway with no tradition of writing . Written Gaelic is no more Scottish than I am . It's no more valid than the supposed idea of clan tartan (now there's a money spinner/weaver). Gaelic road signs all have one translation : "This way tourists". Forget 'an apple a day keeps the doctor away ' , just stick pins in a bureaucrat voodoo doll. Gits.

Hi Kris,

Here in Scotland, it is not common to have signs in Gaelic unless in the NW, where both Gaelic and the Anglicization are used.

I have no problems with anyone who wishes to use a second language, but do not understand why others should wish to deny them that privilege. The fact that writing in Gaelic was not historically required by the users should not make it invalid.

Moran Taing

I most usually visit Argyll & Bute , hence my observation of the signs . I too think it's very worthy to preserve language , but question the spending priorities . Having said that , the general road quality in Scotland is excellent regardless of 'quaint' additions to signs. If putting Gaelic in written form helps preserve it then OK it's a good thing

Mar sin leibh an dràsda - (I'd make a mess of pronouncing that)

<Rant>

The frustrating thing is that, if one wants to put a softwood support down one edge of a complete plywood sheet, one either ends up a bit short or one has to cut a bit off, even if 8' or 4' or a metric foot were a guide.

</Rant>

Actually, I've contended for at least 50 years that we should put EAST at the top. That way, you're looking "forward", in the direction that you are traveling as the earth rotates. It immediately becomes intuitive, then, that your first glimpse of something is in front of you (sunrise, as the prime example) and you last see it as it falls behind, so that sunset is in the west. Anyone who has ever walked, ridden a horse or ridden in or on nearly any vehicle small enough that passengers are able to see out the front has already experienced exactly this phenomenon. As things stand, an amazing number of people cannot answer a simple question such as "Which direction does the earth rotate?" I'd hate to guess what percentage of adults in the USA cannot remember the direction of sunrise or sunset! Use of a non-intuitive convention compounds poor teaching skills and methods.

I travel a lot and am 100% oriented when in the southern hemisphere, in the northern things get pretty complicated as I instinctively check the sunlight (more precisely, the shadows projected by objects), thus being always 180º wrong!

Interesting point on the change in perspective when you travel to the Northern Hemisphere. Having traveled to Chile long ago, it didn't trouble me at the time but, should I go again, I wonder if I'll now be confused?

And, on that note, many from the east coast (New York, Boston) of the United States are disoriented when they travel to the west coast (Los Angeles, San Francisco). It is one of those topics that often comes up between those who make the trip on a regular basis, too. It seems that we have an in-grained sense that the ocean is always to the east so, when we are planning to drive to the coast we drive to the east or when we are told to go east we instinctively drive towards the water. It really seems quite bizarre but I know too many people who have made the same mistake and I, for one, rarely get lost when I travel.

Dear MillMat, you have put into words what I felt for a long time, but never got conciuos about! ("MY" coast is always EAST!!!)

I'm glad that someone understands my point! I haven't lived within 100 miles of the shoreline for over ten years yet I still have that internal compass (or whatever you want to call it?) telling me that the ocean is always to the east.

And, it isn't lost on me that you are in South America (where you really might use a map that has South at the top) and have the same affinity.

BTW, long before I started traveling in earnest, I was able to tell folks on the east coast of the United States that I had traveled from Maine to Florida and most of the coastal states inbetween, had never traveled farther west than Ohio BUT I had swam in the Pacific Ocean. You probably know how I did that. So many folks in the northern hemisphere seemed incapable of understanding how I did that......

I am a neurosurgeon, and can tell you we do have something like an internal compass deep in our brain: it is probably one of the eldest neurological structures we are equipped with: it is called Lymbic System. This system manages our most primitive responses related to feeding, procreation and self defense as well as orientation in space and time. Pleasant or unpleasant smells are also "recorded" there: this is why we associate certain smells with images or situations of our past.

By the way: migratory birds guide their flight by means of the info recorded in their Thalamus, which is a structure that belongs to the lymbic system.

So, we are the summation of our experiences? Or, at least, we draw heavily upon our experiences as they are, indeed, etched into our memories.

Is it true that smells, pleasant or unpleasant, have the strongest association with our memory? I was told that to be the case because after I was in a building that had a small but pungent electrical fire (that I did not see but smelled), I could become anxious by pungent smells until I could see or otherwise 'know' the source.

Maybe it is such associations that has created such a large response to the initial posting here.

Take your dog around the world and ask what sound it makes when it barks. The answers will vary with the country. In France it will be "Gnaf, gnaf"; in Spain, "Guau,guau"; in Japan,"Wung, wung". Which of these is correct? None and all. Is there a "right" sound that the dog makes? How would you find out what it is? Get a judge from Africa and he'll tell us the dog goes, "Kpei, kpei"

The Greeks of the classical period didn't consider the origin of the universe a problem. Before Descartes no one felt the relationship between mind and body was a valid problem. Aquinas gave seminars on subjects like, "Is God's knowledge the cause of things?". Similarly questions like "What holds the earth up and why don't people at the bottom fall off?" have been answered and unanswered. One cannot say whether a painting is correct or incorrect, one can only ask if it accomplishes its purpose; if it adds to and enriches experience.

Here's a thought PBs - what word do babys around the world first speak ? I have no idea other than UK seems to have 'mum' + USA have 'mom' . This must be a mix of nature and nurture + adult communication/spelling . Finding this all on audio would be great.

"what word do babys around the world first speak ?"

In the spirit of "upside down", perhaps babies have led the way.

It doesn't take much motor control to "say" mmm, and anxious mothers may have accepeted the designation of mom, or mum, or ??? out of self gratification.

By the way, daa seems pretty easy for babies as well.

I have been experimenting for several minutes , and the best primative noise I can make so far is a sort of (mmmaaa).Start with the 'mmm' and open mouth whilst continuing resonant mouth sound. We need a language expert.

Perhaps it's genetic, but most of the babies, with whom I have spent much time, those in my family -- 3 generations now, liked to play sound games. A favorite was "momomomomomom", accomplished by opening and closing the mouth while saying humming mmmmmmm

Agreed , so now we need some international input on this. Come on folks , we want to know about the babies !

My eldest's first words was a rounded mouth and "ahhhh". Spoken very softly, with smiling eyes and a lilt on the first second of sound. She was probably looking at the strange creature with glasses leaning over her and saying, "take me to your leader".

I guess that would be my wife.

That 'ahhhh' sound like 'I'm tired ' to me ! You weren't introducing the poor infant to Fourier analysis were you ? On the other hand , as a vulcan a mind-meld would have been more apropriate than spoken introductions.

On a technicality , the vowel sound is excluded since noise would begin before the mouth opened thus deeming any sound to be of a consonant form (vowels are produced with a continually open mouth , hence the town of Ypres pronounciation which qualifies y as a vowel )

I tried the vulcan mind-meld but got swatted by the mother.

"What are you doing to our daughter?!"

"Relax, this is a ritual that a father must perform on his children."

"Have you been drinking?"

"What gave you that idea (hic)?"

A Japanese mother would be very surprised if her child's first words were "Ma ma". She knows a child's first words are "Ogya, ogya."

No domain of science is more real than the other. Ford linked the assembly line to the production of automobiles and changed the sex habits of Americans. These sequences could not have been predicted at the time they were initiated, because new observables appeared as the sequences progressed. Looking backward, it seems inevitable and determined.

As for the Japanese tot, and any tot for that matter, recognizing absolute intrinsic truth could never be more simplistically real than securing the comfort of its mother.

If the baby has bigger lungs, and produces more pressure when exhaling, the sound is more "ba ba" when the tongue is on the lower palate, and "da da"where the tip of the tongue is touching the top.

If the baby has bigger lungs, and produces more pressure when exhaling, the sound is more "ba ba"

If it is also white and fluffy looking , it may be a sheep .

I was going to launch a bunch of jokes , but I will resist doing so as you are not Welsh . All right then , get them on a cliff edge - they push back harder .

I spent Easter walking through fields of sheep: they don't say "ba ba", more "maan maan" - maybe they were worried?

At least we still know what animals look like, and don't need to wear the horns ourselves

...that is awful, but also funny!!!

....or a psychiatrist!

You are probably right Andy . And the german baby says _______ ? c'mon I'm intrigued . It's gotta start with a m sound yeah ? My current thinking is on a 'b' starting sound because babies have got to burp air up with that sound - It's a close call though.

Funny!

I like Americans, I have known a lot of them, but for most they do not have a clue as to what is outside of mainland USA.....

I have had phone calls at 2 in the morning about mundane unimportant things and when I tell them "can we continue our discussion tomorrow as it is 2 am here", they are most surprised.......seemingly otherwise clever people!!

Our solar system and galaxy have shown how wrong you would have been. There is no stable "east" anywhere beyond your spot of space on a merry-go-round. With our axis somewhat perpendicular to the plane most common to our solar system AND galaxy, north can be up (or down) throughout our galaxy, though not one far far away.

Unless you stop by neptune, then you might be avle to have an east/west rather than a north/south.

RichH

the positioning is due to old european prospective when that was the only thing on it

I think we should change it... From now on all maps should be Right side up and we should drive on the North side...

And the real reason was for you to ask why.

Richh

I think it is just that maps were first made by people who lived in the Northern part of the globe and from their perspective Australia and South America is down below. I personally like it the way it is because the earths spin vector points North according to the convention of rotational vector representation.

...does this mean I can't slide uphill?

Only if you require gravity.

RichH

Nice artwork - yours ? Very cool.

...so, is she facing east or just out of this world?

(previous post/pic came from the hand/mind of M.C. Escher)

James,

I have some follow-up questions for you.

Why do we talk about the superiority of the metric system, yet no one uses metric time?

If there are roughly 10 planets per star and 100 billion stars in a galaxy and around 100 billion galaxies in the Universe. Then there is around (at least) 100 Sextillion Planets in the Universe. Considering life appeared on Earth right away (>3.5 Billion Years Ago) How could we be the only planet with life? How is it even conceivable?

If we could send a probe at the speed of light, there are less than 5000 stars the probe could reach in our lifetime (out of 10 Sextillion, space is really big).

If corn ethanol pollutes as much as gasoline, costs more, and can cause famine (as food resources are diverted), why are we implementing it?

Why do we have two eyes, two ears, two nostrils, two legs, two arms, etc. Why just two? Why all the same number?

What are Carbon Nanotubes currently used in? What function do they currently serve? (Considering the volume of research on them, they must be used for something, right?)

What year was Jesus Born (Hint, there was no year 0 and it isn't 1 AD either)? What year did he died?

No one uses metric music division either, instead of an octave a dectave. Why does the piano have 88 keys and not 100 -- would it cost that much more to round up to 100. Why are there 88 constellations in the sky, is it a coincidence?

We do have 10 toes and 10 fingers. Horses have 1, goats 2, and Rhino's 3. Although it was rumored that Ann Boleyn had 12 fingers. Did she inspire bakers?

Why do all mammals have 9 neck vertebrae, yet Arabian horses have one less vertebrae than all other breeds of horses.

According to the bible, Jesus died 33 years after he was born. The actual birth date is not known for sure, but is probably between 7 BC and 4 BC.

Carbon Nanotubes were used to strenthen a bicycle in the 2006 Tour De France, the frame weighing only 1 kilogram.

You Wrote: "Carbon Nanotubes were used to strenthen a bicycle in the 2006 Tour De France, the frame weighing only 1 kilogram."

Can you provide a link to this, I would be interested in reading about it.

I'm also interested if there is an answer to your octive question.

Just a Wikipedia article -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

I am not a student of music, but they count the end notes plus the intermediate notes to get 8 for octave. On a piano, throw in the black keys and there are 13. In other cultures there are different numbers, but no-one uses 10 spaces in an octave.

Try http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2006/tour06/tech/?id=/tech/2006/features/singenberger1

That's good to know. So much research has been devoted to these things, sometimes I wonder if its worth it.

I wonder how did they ever got to confirm it's molecular structure. Tunneling Electron Microscope is able to view a lattice surface of heavy elements like gold or lead, but nanotubes and buckyballs are some six to eight carbon atoms to each ring.

What gives? It's too small of an atom to scan.

Has anybody seen micro views of those structures?

Views, not graphics!

yes, on a science channel show. pretty neat!

...can´t tell about the rest of mammals, but humans have 7 neck (Cervical) vertebrae

I should have verified the correct number before I stated it, it is 7. And the sloth, spiny anteater and manatee are exceptions. All the rest have 7. Mouse, human, whale, giraffe, why is this number so rigid held while the rest of the vertebrae number is so whimsical that within a single species it can vary.

Wait there are 7 different notes (A thru G) in a standard octave, coincidence or conspiracy?

Einstein said "God does not play dies". If we believe in Albert, coincidence is ruled out...

coincidence is one lable we use to describe occurences of which we cannot or haven't yet figured out.

...If we believe in Albert, coincidence is ruled out...

But we don't.

Albert was an old goat saying that.

Being a determinist (another word for religious), he was reluctant to take into account that random interaction may lead to complex order, as demonstrated by Quantum Physics. This aspect of QP was not to his liking, and later on, in the nineteen fifties he tried to point out some weird paradoxes arising from QM, in his EPR thought-experiment.