Will Electricity Leakage Create Higher Bill?

I'm not an electrical engineer, but grounding a fault doesn't seem like an acceptable solution. The fault needs to be repaired.

Leakage of any substantial amount, such as enough to "give you a bite" would most likely cause the circuit breaker to trip. If it didn't trip the breaker, most likely you will be ok, but if it were me asking this question, I would take an amperage reading with your new ground removed, and compare it to an amperage reading with the new ground installed and see if there is any difference. Of course the appliance needs to be running exactly the same load in both cases to be accurate.

I wouldn't worry about the bill. Something's wrong.

You've got current leaking into the body of your appliance. All you've done is to give it an easier path to ground than your hand.

If you can't find the source of the leak, you need to hire an electrician to do it. If you happen to be standing in a wet spot the next time, that current just might decide that you are the best path to ground.

You don't want that little bite to turn into a big one.

Yes, the bill will be higher. Go look at your meter. It tells you how much power you are using. So, monitor it for a week, then remove the earth connection and see if the consumption goes down.

Report in two weeks.

take a voltage reading between your appliance and earth, and get back to us, then as previously suggested by RVZ, take a amp reading.

You might want to disconnect the faulty electrical appliance from the "gas line" if you're planning on becoming "oldken". Couldn't Resist!

Hope you're not planning on becoming an engineer anytime soon...

Sheesh! Grounding to a gas line????

Are you worried about the small electrical bill or your and your other members of your family.A small leak can turn to be a dead short any time and it can kill anyone or cause a fire. Do not play with electricity if you are not sure about what you are doing. Either throw out the stuff or hand over to regular repair shop.

Earthing to a GAS PIPE?!? Please stop, and think! Grounding to a water pipe is normal. Or to a grounding rod. But gas pipe is a really sensitive issue. Beg or borrow a meter, and measure the current going into the ground. A few milliAmps may be considered normal leakage, and the ground takes care of it. More needs a repair or replacement. 10-20mAmps is the lethal, legal limit for Ground Fault Interrupter breakers in USA, for your reference.

Never mind the bill. Mind your life.

Under BS7671 both water and gas services must be bonded to earth. But you must abide by your local regulations.

But if you appliance is faulty earthing it in the manner you describe is hardly to be recommended.

Hi Tony

Here's a point to consider...

Q: Does boiler pipework need to have additional equipotential bonding for electrical safety reasons?

A: There is no specific requirement in the Regulations for boiler pipework to be supplementary bonded. However, such bonding may be called for in the boiler manufacturer's instructions, in which case BS 7671 requires those instructions to be followed (Regulation 510.2 refers). Any stated requirement for additional bonding that is considered to be unnecessary should be queried with the manufacturer concerned, and amended installation instructions requested.

Regulation number(s) 411.3.3

from: http://www.esc.org.uk

Hi Brich, I didn't mention supplementary equipotential bonding, I was referring to service bonding. Personally my thoughts are that with the increasing use of plastic for water, both as the service and internals, bonding this is a waste of time.

Non the less I think youngken has a death wish with this fix!

Dear Youngken, your pursuit for nomination in the upcoming Darwin awards is highly commendable.

Apart from deviation from local electrical codes the use of a fuel line as a grounding element seems somewhat devoid of rational meditation.

Can I ask why you chose a gas pipe and not a water pipe?

Enough of the tutt tutting. I figure you did what you thought was ok at the time. You really want to rearrange your solution before your temporary(?) grounding actually has to deal with a fault current.

Some questions for you:

What is the appliance?

Do your premises have grounded electrical outlets?

Has the premises electrical distribution system been equipped with rccds OR elcbs?

Earth leakage can be caused by a number of things ranging from normal operation, mal-located animal cadavers, water ingress... to a nasty surprise in the offing.

Yes, earth leakage will spin your meter to a lesser or greater extent depending on its severity. Small bite normally means small "problem".

The tests suggested may or may not identify the underlying issues. This is best tackled with knowledge and experience.

I hope you live long enough to read this and reply.

Higher electrical bill, yes; and possibly much higher medical bills or other liabilities.

Investigate and correct any ground faults (= leakage).

Seems that Youngken has left the building.....

I just hope that he did not leave in an ambulance or hearse.

If, by chance, this appliance was a clothes dryer there is also a good chance that the "bite" you felt was static electricity. An improperly (un) grounded clothes dryer builds up a static charge from all the clothes rubbing around inside, and when you touch it, you become the discharge point. It stings, but it's relatively harmless.

Unless of course you ground it to a gas pipe...

Roger on the static. That's one reason why I asked what type of appliance it was.

Using a gas pipe as an electrical ground is (1) illegal and (2) hazardous. You don't say what kind of appliance this is. If it's cheap, toss it and buy another one. If it's expensive, pay somebody who knows what he is doing to fix it. Why risk death or the loss of your home by fire?

You need an electrician with a "Megger" to measure the resistance between the phase/neutrl (switches on!!) and thr frame of the device. It must usually be above 1 MegOhm.

Many devices are supplied with a proper 3 pin connector with 3 wires in the cable, to earth the frame, because these devices are not "Double insulated" (which are usually supplied with only a 2 wire connection, even if the plug needs still to have 3 pins as in the UK for example).

Devices with a 3 wire connection often have a "bite" when the frame is not grounded correctly. Washing machines, washing up machines are often only supplied with a 3 wire connection in my experience.....always use it.....I have also experienced the bite when say the earth contact has been painted over (as can happen in Europe, not the UK).

Provided the insulation is well above 1 MegOhm, the voltage may be felt, but the current is tiny, using simple Ohm's law you can calculate it:-

I = V/R (I being current). Assuming European voltages (US voltages would be half the resulting current again) =

230/1,000,000 = 0.00023 amps or about a quarter of a milliamp....you will feel it, but its not dangerous to anyone reasonably fit and no pacemaker.......

If your insulation is below 1 MegOhm, then it should be properly repaired.....

The effect on the electricity bill, assuming that the machine is switched off when not in use, will not be measurable!!! Even switched on but not running, other power users in the machine will be much higher than a quarter of a milliamp!!

I hope this helps.

The leakage might be just insignificant to be reflected in the electric bills, but damage to property and safety should be of concern.Unless you are sure of source of leakage and know of their cosequences than you can be at peace of mind.

Grounding in the new age to any pipe is like putting tape on a water leak. Most piping water and gas pipes turn to plastic immediately under ground. To a fuel line is a no-no period. If house wirning is properly grounded to an earth ground the fault could be in the appliance. Many of the older appliances are not properly grounded such as many of the older washers have the ground wire to be connected to the water pipe which in it's day went to ground and many refrigerators had to be plug in correctly..Get an electrician you can trust and find the problem for your safety.

Thanks everybody

Ken,

Please answer the questions that have been asked (#13). I commend you with coming up with a temporary solution. The best ground other than a proper ground rod is usually a cold water pipe. Hot water pipes come from water heaters which can have resistance to the cold pipes. If the appliance is a radio, then the problem may be the capacitors used to prevent interference from the power line. In that case, the power bill will not go up by a measurable amount, but it will go up. If the leakage gets worse, the unit may blow a fuse or circuit breaker (assuming that you have either). If you do not, then unplug the appliance immediately and do what others have said.

-S

You may install a residual current circuit breaker (RCCB) also known as earth leackage circuit breaker (ELCB) to find out presence of earth leakage in the circuit. It may be set at 30 or 100 mA depending on the sensitivity you wish to provide for earth leakage protection. If the RCCB/ ELCB trips it definitely indicates presence of earth leakage in the circuit. However, lower setting may sometimes cause spurious tripping.It would be advisable to find out the reason for earth leakage and eliminate the same. Higher electricity bill is a concern but safety of human life should have utmost importance.

Use a correct earth stake not a gas pipe, water pipe or any pipe if an unsuspecting plumber/ fit or handyman cuts the pipe and removes a section or grabs hold of both sides or the side with a higher potential you will electrocute him/her. get the appliance fixed and get an electrician to fit an RCD to your switchboard.

Using either a gas or water pipe as an earth falls outside British Standard 7671.

To hell with the bill. Fix the fault!

I order a handyman to put a new fitting lamp (lampholder) in a steel frame of the roof. The steel is pierced into the damp soil.

After I few days, my neighbour says that He got an electric shock when He touch the frame. Then I repair the lampholder, and found that there is a bend wire touch the steel frame. Then I lay a wood plate between the steel frame and the lamp holder, and the problem solved.

The next month I got an increased bill from 30USD to 90 USD (It is expensive in Indonesia).

Is a leak into soil make a high electric bill ?

Absolutely your higher electric bill can be due to this unsafe condition. It could also be because of the added load of this lamp. It could be due to a non-linear billing threshold of your electricity provider. It could be an accounting error by your electricity provider. It might even be because the refrigerant in your refrigerator started to leak this month. The compressor is running 23 hours of the day to try and keep your food cold. It can be a myriad of other plausible wiring failures that happened that month that you did not fix yet.

Dear Mr.youngken,

The answer is simple YES.

DHAYANANDHAN.S

Dear Mr.youngken,

Pl. REFER MY POST No.33, I forgot to add the following. Pl. take the following lines as serious message.

You referred

"minor bite from an electrical appliance, then I earthed it to a gas pipe. No bite anymore, but would it create a higher bill in future?"

The Answer is YES, You will get a FAT BILL.

CAUTION: IT IS TOTALLY WRONG TO PROVIDE EARTHING THROUGH THE GAS PIPE.

Pl. arrange to remove EARTHING in the Gas Pipe IMMEDIATELY and provide a seperate Earthing FOR SAFETY, but not for allowing defect to continue.

SAFETY of HUMAN LIFE, EQUIPMENT, GAS PIPING IS THE PRIME CONCERN. DO NOT NEGLECT.

DHAYANANDHAN.S