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Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 11:27 AM

I was changing the oil on my car, (first time I've done it).
I made the mistake of looking in the Haynes Manual first and saw the picture of 'Drain Plug'.
After I'd drained the oil and changed the filter, I poured in some fresh oil and drove it round the block.
The automatic transmission was slipping... Oh oh... the penny dropped.
Yes I'd drained the transmission.
I refilled the transmission, consolling myself that it could do with some fresh fluid as it's a 2004 vehicle.
I drained the real engine oil (from the plug I'd have seen if I hadn't been looking for one I'd seen whilst flicking through the manual) and refilled it too.
Let's hear the most stupid thing you've done lately.
A costly error as good quality transmission fluid is expensive.
Del

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#121
In reply to #120
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Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/21/2011 10:43 PM

It can also be said there are people on CR4 who jump in calling "wrong" without checking their facts.

If left standing un-rebutted, this can lead to a reader being mislead and confused as to what is correct.

Though most of the technical aspects you have reiterated directly derive from my previous efforts to explain the safety regulations and equipment 'not present' and the cause of these events - [demonstrating a practical experience and comprehensive understanding of the 'theory' well in advance of any other poster on this thread] - it was not me who gave you the off topic.

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#122
In reply to #121

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/21/2011 11:40 PM
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#123
In reply to #121

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 9:52 AM

There are such people on CR4 as you say.

There are also the theorists who live a life hemmed in by percentages.

I find that a mixture of knowledge and common sense to be the best way, do you not agree?

I probably "rebut" more statements than anyone else here, as so many are afraid of a personal attack from those always ready to do that - just for fun? I get private emails on almost a daily basis praising my actions..

What I suggested to you in my last post (which point you have conveniently disregarded to answer fully!) was that entering a vehicle, maybe hot in the sun, KNOWING that there had been a gas leak inside and knowing (just in this case!) that ithe mixture was just outside the theoretical explosion level, WOULD YOU ENTER THAT VEHICLE?

I think anyone with any sense at all can answer that for you....but the big question here is can YOU?

(I have posted two questions for you in this post, can you answer them both please? Thanks in advance.)

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#124
In reply to #123

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 10:08 AM

I almost forgot to answer about my Off Topic score, I am almost proud of such recognitions as it demonstrates fully the wide area of knowledge or lack of, here on CR4.That must be accepted by anyone who posts here on a regular basis....

It is certainly interesting that many do not either mention an on or off topic marking with a short note, showing just how broad the yellow stripe can be!!!!

I greet anyone who is brave enough to post on or off topic with their name......they are the heroes here.....that Guy "Anonymous Poster" is a really brave one, he gets everywhere!!!

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#125
In reply to #123

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 10:09 AM

Accidently posted twice, sorry.

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#126
In reply to #123

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 2:59 PM

"(which point you have conveniently disregarded to answer fully!)"

Yes I did.

Because; if you want to infer the victims are/were fools, even adding the invented and spurious to 'underline' your "case" ...

I.e. "maybe hot in the sun, KNOWING that there had been a gas leak inside" inc. presumption of instrumentation.

... you can say so yourself.

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#127
In reply to #126

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 5:35 PM

You are still avoiding answering the questions. (completely as expected!)

We all know why you don't answer, even if you yourself are unsure!!!!

Last chance, answer the questions please......step up to the plate!!!

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#128
In reply to #127

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 8:04 PM

cease arguing people . it just wastes black ink in the server...... ;)

allow for the fact that not all humans on earth are the same and are likely to have different thoughts and feelings.

each of those unique thoughts are valid for that person ..... so lets give all people space to feel validated in the world.

Peace

Peace in the world and peace within are both interelated and achievable.

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#129
In reply to #128

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/22/2011 8:23 PM

you ain't from around here [this forum] are you?

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#131
In reply to #129

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/23/2011 5:25 AM

Nope

Our craft crashed and we just wanna get back to our mothership parked behind Jupiter so we can fly home in time for Xmas on Centaurus C

but dont tell anyone okay coz its a secret ... :P)

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#138
In reply to #131

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/24/2011 7:19 AM

All I can say is, this is the right room for an argument!

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#130
In reply to #127

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/22/2011 8:52 PM

Do tell;

1. why don't I?

2. who is "we all"?

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#132
In reply to #130

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 10:11 AM

To answer:-

1. why don't I?

That is really simple as there is no possible answer that you could make that would either show that you agreed with my "common sense" appreciation of the problem of a gas leak in a vehicle (which would REALLY go against the grain), or it might make you look stupid and overly "picky".

Neither of these two possible possibilities appealed to you...and a third possibility never occurred to you.....(to me neither by the way!! But always prepared to listen and learn if you have something worth hearing on this (or any) subject)

2. who is "we all"?

That would be "telling", you don't want to always hear EVERYTHING about your circle of friends do you? Certainly not from me, I respect confidences....even yours!!

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#133
In reply to #132

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 3:56 PM

Ah, I see.

So I'm between a rock and a hard place as I can't bear to bring myself to agree with you? - Funny

To do this; am I supposed to recant pointing out that your interjection of I'm wrong about the cylinders have to be left on to achieve a combustible mix in a van, un-refine your guess at an acetylene % and un-infer your statement that it's "much higher" (than 5%) for LPG, is dangerously misleading?

It is quite a shame you did not do some basic checking and some volume estimates, before calling me wrong.

However, do I gather that "theory" is an anathema to you and people that utilize it are automatically disqualified from being practical and possessing common sense and so deserve derision.

But to be fair, I have learnt 'practical common sense' things from you over the years. Quite handy to know was that if one drops Bofors ammo, one should throw it over the side. Regretfully, I did check the detail ('theory') before I utilized the information, so must apologize for that lack of faith.

Just a point on "we all". This second mention of a clique, presumably means you're receiving PM's of praise for your current 'argument'. I was simply curious who would think anything you have typed in response to being 'educated' is not about changing the subject to avoid admitting you bungled?

Anyhow, it is what you do and have always done, so no surprise. Meanwhile Seasons greetings, and all the best for the New Year

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#134
In reply to #133

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 4:33 PM

+1

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#135
In reply to #133

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 5:20 PM

It may have escaped your memory that I was actually talking about acetylene with regard to the vehicle. Why you may ask? Because it has a significantly wider range of explosiveness than many other gases that might be carried around in vehicles......I actually wrote:-

With acetylene thats not true, explosive mixture starts at about 5% Gas to 95% air......

Because you were SO unfriendly and picky about my values, but were in fact only a few percent points different from your "exact" figures, to whit:-

Well actually acetylene LEL is 2.5% and UEL 82%, but you are not going to get much of a bang in the lean end of that and it's more difficult to set off.

So I wrote:-

The low and high values you stated are most probably correct (mine were from an old memory), but that is still IN the danger area.......you can ineffectively argue that an explosion is less likely at the low and high levels, it being true but still totally unpractical to take as "SAFE"!!.......

I mentioned Propane only in passing at some point, no values were mentioned. This was obviously my mistake which has completely mislead you (again?), please accept my apologies for misleading you (unintentionally!).

Then I hit on the idea of the question of entering a vehicle or not that YOU KNOW has a concentration of around 2.5%, (according to you safe and difficult to set off) which despite your protests to the contrary, YOU STILL HAVEN'T HAD THE BALLS TO CHANCE AN ANSWER!!!!!!!

So you are dead right, you are between a rock and a hard place....... But running around in circles still achieves little distance......

I am now dropping the question as I can see I am beating a dead horse........I hope it hasn't hurt too much!!

By the way, my "quotes" above can easily be checked back for validity if needed within CR4....

Have a nice day anyway........

(One day you will learn that attempting to jump on me for no valid reason other than animosity is rarely effective, this was on such a day..... it has been done, but very rarely.....and only by extremely clever people! I set great score on friendliness & good manners, anything else gets a "reaction" back)

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#136
In reply to #135

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 10:23 PM

"attempting to jump on me for no valid reason other than animosity" Really?

Sounds more like a bit of your real motivation leaking.

Were I of your ilk, I would have no doubt typed [in bold] that 5% is 100% wrong! and only a cretin would think LPG was higher. Then something along the lines of; and how are you going to get out of this you coward!

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#137
In reply to #136

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/23/2011 10:44 PM

+2

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#139
In reply to #136

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/24/2011 11:22 AM

If you are a cretin (you used the word first!), then the amount of misunderstanding in the following sentence:-

Were I of your ilk, I would have no doubt typed [in bold] that 5% is 100% wrong! and only a cretin would think LPG was higher. Then something along the lines of; and how are you going to get out of this you coward!

Might simply prove that.......

You should write novels as your creative talent above and beyond simple facts in print (on a server somewhere!) is simply astounding......you may have missed your vocation my friend!!!

I have never written that about LPG (please be so kind as to point out in which post I said that) as I actually have no idea where LPG lies in the Big Band Theory.....only to believe (without knowing) that is is probably considered in some respects to be less flammable than Acetylene is.....

This may be the post (that CR4/internet/my Laptop/the man in the Moon somehow cut off) that you are completely (maybe you want to?) misunderstanding (maybe because it is missing a big chunk of words):-

With acetylene thats not true, explosive mixture starts at about 5% Gas to 95% air......

Propane etc. are far more......

Please do not completely disregard my "about" in the above post either.

Making up things that I am supposed to have said is really not very adult at all.

Do not forget, I am always prepared to eat my words if proved wrong, a trait that you should consider learning more about......

I myself have no need to fabricate anything just to try and prove I am right, so please be so kind as to point me to the other(?) place where I said that about LPG.....thanks in advance.....

As you have never answered ANY of my questions up to now on this blog (we all know why), I am not expecting an answer to the above either.

What I am expecting are further chapters of a novel that you appear to be putting together, so please strain yourself and prove to us all here that I put down something that is easily verified to be 100% wrong - just once!

As I said before, I do believe simple animosity on your part is the driver at the moment, why? (Oh sorry, another question that will probably never get answered!!!)

I have seen you in altercations with others in the past, now I am understanding better the "why" part!! You hold grudges.......I never do, another Blog, another start, no grudges held over.

You are not the first I have crossed swords with in my life and probably not the last, its part of the fun of CR4!!

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#140
In reply to #139

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/24/2011 5:56 PM

"Altercations"? Grudges"? 'crossing swords? Novel indeed.

I wrote (#110);

Turning off the cylinders is not that hard [and can save you $]

If you have experience with oxy, you would be aware that the more common leaks are regulator seals and handpiece valves - not cylinder valves, that are checked at every recharge.

To achieve an explosive mix,[in bigger than a breadbox], you need more gas than the volume in reg and hoses. (i.e. it takes a cylinder fed leak all night)

So perhaps the simpler safety thing for those who wish to carry gas inside a closed vehicle, [as opposed to on the back tray, like sane folk] and are too exuberant to turn off their cylinders, or close their 'approved vented' cabinets, is to switch off [or disable] the interior light.

To which you wrote (#116);

"With acetylene thats not true, explosive mixture starts at about 5% Gas to 95% air......

Propane etc. are far more......"

We presume here your "not true" refers to the portion of my post now in italics.

So; simple math showed your 'not true' is not true. Your 5% is twice the actual value. Your "propane etc" is plain wrong.

But by all means go on, and on, and on, trying to make it about something else than simple facts.

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#141
In reply to #140

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/24/2011 8:47 PM

Why don't you simply answer my question about entering a car with a measured 2.5 % mixture of acetylene inside on a hot day......? Or give in and admit you can't? Instead of writing further chapters in your novel......

That would stop the altercation with one sentence.....

Until you answer that question fully, I am going to simply ignore you and your frantic novel writing......its simply got too boring with you scrabbling for a handhold......and not achieving one....

Have a nice day......if you haven't fallen off by then!

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#142
In reply to #141

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/25/2011 2:03 AM

The way I see it, no one on CR4 is obliged in anyway to answer any question on CR4.

That said: It's ironic that you profess so much knowledge of me, but seem to have overlooked one of the few things actually known about me on CR4.

You must be the only person on CR4 not adding 2 & 2 on where my knowledge originates on how these vehicles should be set up, what %'s and flash points apply, and SOP's in the gas industry and users as a whole.

Naturally, I'm finding most amusing that you persist with your fatuous "would you" ploy, when clearly I would know how to - safely - instrumentation or not.

But as said, what I would, or wouldn't do, is a totally pointless question in the context of the 'average plumber'.

Or essentially, lack of research caused you ludicrously attempt playing the coward card, rather than admit you screwed up technically, because you failed to research.

But do carry on changing feet. I'm sure everyone is finding your idea of an 'altercation' as amusing as I am.

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#143
In reply to #142

Re: Correct Answers verses Andy's memory

12/25/2011 9:47 AM

+∞

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#99
In reply to #97
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Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 5:24 AM

GA.

My thoughts exactly.

Plus sensors and fan driven air purging.

I used to sail a lot on Yachts with petrol engines, before we started them, the bilges had to be purged with a flame proof fan for 5 minutes. The sensors 45 years ago were nowhere near as good as they are today.....

This problem is no different.....

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#102
In reply to #99

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 6:15 AM

I think major problem here is lack of common sense when handling compressed gas containers whether the contents are flammable or not because basically you're talking about a bomb that only needs some kind of trigger to detonate.

Even a compressed CO2 or N2 cylinder can be a lethal weapon if not handled correctly. There was a Mythbusters episode that looked at what would happen if the valve were severed from a nitrogen cylinder if I remember correctly. The end result was that the cylinder took off like a rocket and the sinter block wall that it impacted offered absolutely no impediment to its motion.

I do agree with the automatic venting, electrical system cut off and visual alarms being compulsory in vehicles that are used to transport cylinders containing volatile gasses, it would certainly go a long way to fixing the situation.

However, the number of tradesmen I have seen who use things like oxyacetylene equipment on a regular basis that flaunt the most basic safety rules like having a fire extinguisher on hand scares the living daylights out of me. Things like loading all the kit into a van without venting the hoses is also a very common practice. Some of the hoses I've seen would certainly be long enough contain sufficient gas to cause a sizable boom if released into the confined space in a van.

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#105
In reply to #102

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 8:39 AM

good point Masu , the gas in hoses alone could be enough

i have sent emails to every OHS department for the various states in australia today

whats required next though is to get a gas detector company to get on the wagon and put together a product that will reliably offer that level of protection.

flameproof fans are cheap to do ( under $ 150 )

detection and warning system could cost $ 1500 with current units off the shelf , but if its made mandatory nationwide with a 6 month window to implement in vehicles , then i feel the cost could come down to under $ 400

it can be done.

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#106
In reply to #105

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 9:39 AM

why are you re-inventing the wheel?

have a look at how the vendors of compressed gases store & transport cylinders

all the hoses should be disconnected & the metal safety caps fitted during any transportation

here in the states you pay a very large insurance premium to us acetlyene

Propylene is much safer to store, not requiring the thick wall tank

Cylinder Design
Acetylene can be safely compressed up to 275 psi when dissolved in acetone and stored in specially designed cylinders filled with porous material, such as balsa wood, charcoal, finely shredded asbestos, corn pith, portland cement, or infusorial earth. These porous filler materials aid in the prevention of high-pressure gas pockets forming in the cylinder.

storing a welding rig in a closed van without shutting the tank valves off & bleeding the hoses is a recipe for disaster

Hazards Pure acetylene is self-explosive if stored in the free state under a pressure of 29.4 pounds per square inch (psi). A slight shock is likely to cause it to explode.

WARNING
Acetylene becomes extremely dangerous if used above 15 pounds pressure

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#104
In reply to #99

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 8:32 AM

yes

same issue on boats and that is also a successful method that has saved many lives

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#101
In reply to #97
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Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 6:14 AM

Detection and warnings, ventilated vans - how about refridgeration/cooling (solar powered?) to help protect the valves?

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#58
In reply to #53
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Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:34 AM

Does that include gas used for domestic cooking & heating (as used in caravans etc.)?

(e.g. Calor gas.)

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#62
In reply to #58

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:50 AM

yes

we call it LPG here although oxygen and acetylene have also been involved in fatal incidents

ps . many retail suppliers will allow people to take 9 kg bottles in their cars , but commercial gas suppliers will often be more strict

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#60
In reply to #53
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Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:39 AM

Where's here? In UK your not allowed to carry any gas over a small camping cylinder,There are a lot of tunnels that you are forbidden to take gas through, although some can go under escort, Camper vans have to isolate their gas bottles before entering a tunnel.

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#59

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:36 AM

Early one morning,the then Wife wet to leave for work as i was getting ready after a minute i realised she hadn't started the 1100 Suzuki and she came back in stating that the Solenoid was clicking,"are the lights working ?" She confirmed they were fine so she wandered back up the drive as i slipped my boots and shirt on.I was just running through a quick mental diagnostic and knowing the reliability of the Machine chose the what was the last thing done to it Menu,Hmm . . Ahh,She had stated she only managed to limp it to the Gas station on fumes the previous day.Just as she turned the Ignition Switch and i was still fifteen feet away i smelt the Gas the Penny dropped,SH*T ! She's left it on Prime and being a 25yo bike it had flooded.Click,as she hit the button,Mortified in that second the next sound was "Herrrrummmph,Herrumph ! I watched a Film of highly compressed Gas the width of the block spray from between the Head and Block over 10 feet to the left of the bike Then it burst into life .No leaks from the Head Gasket, no bent rods,A miracle the only mod the motor had was a Welded crank but i was well impressed with it.

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#65

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 5:09 AM

I just read Bazzers post,great stuff,we used to have Dispatch riders come in with Gt 750 Kawasaki's in the Eighties and they regularly used to shear the fuel tank mounting brackets.Being Dr's they wanted the job done there and then as time is Money.Our favourite trick was to drain the tanks while they watched and then send the Guy up to the Bakers to get the Coffee and Hot Dogs.As soon as he was out the door being a Motorbike shop we would grab a two stoke,fire it up then rev it up with the choke on and the Tank over the end of the Exhaust filling it with loads of Carbon Monoxide ect.We would then drop a few matches in to get the odd "Whoomph" and usually within a minute or two the Guy returned and then we would ask the rider to drop a match in the Tank to make it Safe for us,there wasn't many willing to do it and hilarious to watch them drop the match and Run : )

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#68

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 8:07 AM

Against the clock, a steam locomotive was approaching the end of its restoration in pursuit of an event in 3 weeks' time. A much younger PWSlack was sent to make a new clevis pin for the regulator valve on a large lathe. Said pin to hand the next task was to fit it. "Nah - you do it". OK. New task, see what happens, that sort of thing.

No-one said that it takes four hands to reassemble a regulator valve inside the dome of a steam locomotive until, dink, clatter, boink, the jockey valve, a cast bronze slidey-piece that was unique to the locomotive in question, rattled its way down inside the tube bundle. Four rows of tubes had already been expanded into place and the rest were in position.

Someone small limboed into the boiler through the dome armed with a much-modified wire coat hanger on a fishing expedition. The said individual was well-supplied with beer that evening at great expense following a successful catch....

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#69
In reply to #68

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 8:13 AM

Sounds like a "Training" issue to me.....

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#71
In reply to #69

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 11:40 AM

Touché.

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#70
In reply to #68

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 9:13 AM

Nice one!!

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#72

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 12:04 PM

How 'bout a list.

1) I woke up

2) I opened my eyes

3) I got out of bed.

And endangering the rest of the world, I got in my car, went out of my house, and was on the loose.

(This was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but while my tongue was in my cheek, I misinterpreted what was happening, got overly excited, and clinched my teeth, thus biting my tongue. Then I realized I was only following the directive of doing what I should do AFTER speaking improperly. So, while stupid, it WAS preemptive, preventing eve more stupidity.)

4) I keep doing it over and over and over again.

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#76
In reply to #72

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 11:06 PM

Story of my life in a nutshell!

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Commentator

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#73

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 1:43 PM

ok now this was totally a DUMB thing quite a few years ago i was the supervisor in a large plastics plant one day the owner comes up and asks me if i would like some extra lighting in the warehouse so i said why not my coworker and i set up the scaffold started the job lunchtime rolls around and im not usually one to stop when im doing electrical work but the coworker says c.mon im buying ( ok free lunch i couldnt say no ) we get back to the plant installing the last couple of fixtures and damm i forgot my wire strippers sooooooo i grab the wire and was just about to rip the plastic casing off using my teeth ( ive been doing this for years ) my coworker taps me on the shoulder and says ummm dont you think you should turn the HYDRO off DUMB DUMB and DUMBER man i was lucky that time

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#74

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 2:32 PM

Just out of the US Navy in 1967, I rebuilt the 265 V8 in my '56 Chevy convertible. Buttoned it all up, filled it with oil and drove it 50 miles when the engine quit. Should have drove it around the block and then checked for oil leaks. I had over tightened the rocker covers and distorted the cork gaskets, losing all the oil. New bearings and crank needed.

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Anonymous Poster #3
#88

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/07/2011 5:52 AM

i was forced to work with guy who had years of schooling. he could spout off formulas all day long, but had no practical knowlege of how things worked in the real world. maybe we should go to our nieghbors garage and look over his shoulder. maybe pass him a wrench from time to time.

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