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Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 11:27 AM

I was changing the oil on my car, (first time I've done it).
I made the mistake of looking in the Haynes Manual first and saw the picture of 'Drain Plug'.
After I'd drained the oil and changed the filter, I poured in some fresh oil and drove it round the block.
The automatic transmission was slipping... Oh oh... the penny dropped.
Yes I'd drained the transmission.
I refilled the transmission, consolling myself that it could do with some fresh fluid as it's a 2004 vehicle.
I drained the real engine oil (from the plug I'd have seen if I hadn't been looking for one I'd seen whilst flicking through the manual) and refilled it too.
Let's hear the most stupid thing you've done lately.
A costly error as good quality transmission fluid is expensive.
Del

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#1

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 11:35 AM

I did the same thing on my 2000 Pontiac Bonneville. It wasn't anywhere near the first time I had been under a car. The juxtaposition of the pans just threw me off (probably in a hurry). As soon as the odd colored "oil" started pouring out I knew I was in trouble and capped it back. Luckily I had some tranny fluid to top it off.

When you put in the new oil, didn't the crankcase overflow?

Hopefully the filling plugs are labeled better!

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#2
In reply to #1

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 11:42 AM

When I'd taken off the old oil filter a fair bit of oil had come out (in hindsight, more than I should expect if I'd drained the sump) And I didn't put too much back in as I was only going to drive a few hundred yards and then check the level and top it up properly.
Glad to know I'm in good company
I'd normally change the oil myself but it just happened that I got a free service from the garage when it was last due so I'd never done this car.
I should have been listening to the little voice that whispers... "that doesn't seem quite right"
The oil that came out was fairly clean for engine oil but still pretty dirty blackish for transmission fluid (the car has done 50,000miles)
Del

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#3

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 12:09 PM

15 years ago I went down to Florida to help a friend bring his 52' cruiser back to Chicago for the summer.

Boat had been sitting all winter.

Being the electrician on board, he asked me to check the water level in the 12V batteries (4) that were installed the week before, grumbling "the yard hands that installed them never do anything right".

I went into the engine compartment and popped the covers off the batteries. They had electrolyte in them but I figured I would top them off for the long journey home.

My plastic beverage cup was empty so I figured no need to go into the cabin for water, I'll just rinse my cup out over the side of the boat, scoop up some water and top off the batteries. The water certainly looked clean to me

I topped off the batteries, capped em up and went to help my buddy with other pre-departure chores.

As we are working about the boat, my buddy keeps insisting "I smell sulfuric acid". Hell, I didn't smell anything.

As we are getting ready to leave the dock, he goes to fire up the engines and all we got was click, click, click.

My buddy asks me if I checked the batteries. I proudly answered "yup, even topped em off".

Well, I can see the light bulb flash on over my buddy's head as he asks "where'd ya get the water from?'

I coyly answer "right off the side of the boat".

The short of this story, I replaced 4 brand new batteries to the tune of $85 a pop.

STUPID, STUPID, STUPID

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 12:11 PM

Ouch.
I'm feelin' better already
Del

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#21
In reply to #3

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 4:54 AM

:)

i once did some welding work on a truck , so disconnected the batteries first as you do to prevent computer or battery damage.

was about to start welding when i noticed a soft glow reflecting in the window from the truck two way radio

the truck had dual ( backup ) batteries

its a factor to watch out for

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#5

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 12:21 PM

No, the costly error is grenading your engine or transmission!

Fluid is cheap and so was your education when you think about it. Not a bad day after all, Dell.

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#6

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 12:49 PM

This happened to my cousins many years ago, but it's still good.

They had a '58 Chevy with small block V8.

They rebuilt the engine, new bearings rings, etc. etc.

When they got finished, as they were cleaning up they discovered a main bearing cap. Yes, a main bearing cap that was supposed to go on the newly rebuilt engine.

Since their father was a welder, they just cut a hole in the oil pan, installed the bearing cap and had dad weld the piece back in.

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#19
In reply to #6

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 4:46 AM

so it was an engine configuration that didnt have enough room to pull the pan off the bottom of the block to get the bearing cap off....

nobody will ever know .... lol

at least it saved you 3 hours to remove and refit the engine

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#7

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 12:57 PM

Gave my oldest son our old van to use for work. The stupid thing was believing him when every time I asked if he had chcked the oil. Several months later he was broken down on the side of the road. The case didnt have enough oil to fill a lawnmower. Lost that engine.

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#8

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 1:44 PM

Here's on me. We have golf carts at work. Occasionally they need to go to the shop for repairs. Normally they would be on the street, where they died, and we'd push them up the ramp on our trailer.

One died on the top floor of one of our parking garages. So, the other guy says, "well we'll have to push it down to the ground level to load it. I say, in a flash of brilliance, "no we don't, let's just drive the trailer up to the roof and load the cart up there".

As we came down from the roof we discovered that, on the trailer, our cart measured 8 feet from the ground to the roof of the cart. The max clearance in that garage is 6 feet 10 inches.

Need I say more? I think that was the dumbest I've ever felt in my life.

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#9

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 1:45 PM

I put "Molyslip" molybdenum disulphide (reduces friction!) additive into the engine oil on my MG TA. This model had an oil-bath clutch. Clutches depend on friction. The additive did its job alright. After 2 days, I could start the engine, put it in gear, let out the clutch and ......... nothing happened. I could get out of the stationary car with it in gear and engine running. Ask me if Molyslip worked!

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#22
In reply to #9

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 4:58 AM

lol

i did the same with a motorcycle when i was a young'un , i asked the guy at the counter if the moly/teflon additive could be used on bikes he said yeah , my instincts didnt feel right so i got him to check with the supplier , they said yup - no problem.

it cost me new clutch plates and two oil changes and reminded me to trust my own intuition.

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#10

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 3:24 PM

I just (Tuesday night) filled my Diesel with petrol: I've been getting it right for over a year, don't know why I suddenly forgot.

Guess this is a problem our friends from across the pond don't have?

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#11
In reply to #10

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 3:38 PM

Nope. I once filled a gas Hyster with diesel. Got a mouthful when I went to siphon it out to boot. Everything, for three days afterward, tasted and smelled of diesel. Dumb*ss.

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#15
In reply to #10

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 10:47 PM

On the contrary, with diesel at $5.25 a gal (about double usual) a couple summers ago I was tired and strung out and poured 40 gallons of 89 octane gas in my diesel.

Sad part was it limped all the way in (three more hours) before I even twigged to the problem.

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#12

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 3:38 PM

I did the exact same thing with my B210 many years back. Drained the manual transmission instead of the crankcase. Fortunately for me my father (making sure that his book smart clumsy son didn't trash his new car) noticed the small volume of thick oil in my tub and decided to check the dipstick before I even opened a single quart of new engine oil. This lead to a trip to the parts store for some 90W oil and a syringe like oil pump because of the location of the filler port.

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#13

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 9:09 PM

Some years ago I gave my neighbor boy an old car that I had sitting around. I told him if you get it running you can have it until you get a better one.

He got it up and running well enough to drive it around and one day he came over and asked if he could use one of my jacks to lift it up and do an oil change on it. I said sure just do it in the shop instead of taking my jack home and then bringing it back.

He got it jacked up and the oil dumped out easy enough and I grabbed the pan of used oil and went and dumped it on of my collection barrels for him. I come back a minute or two later and he already had 5 out of the 6 quarts dumped in the engine where I at that point ask him what this plug was for that I found in the bottom of the oil pan.

Fortunately my shop has a dirt floor and the loader tractor was near by so all I did was push his car forward and scoop out that section of oil soaked dirt and bring in fresh stuff.

I did make him walk the half mile home and back to get 5 more quarts of oil from his dad before I would let him start the car though. I had plenty on hand myself but I well you know how good friends and neighbors are.

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#14

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/02/2011 10:37 PM

As a young man received a mil surplus rifle. Cleaned all the cosmoline off, steel wooded the stock and just like the manual said, rubbed in linseed oil. The RAW linseed oil that my wife had with her oil paints. NOT the BOILED linseed oil the instructions specified. After 30 years that stock is still "tacky" in hot weather. Milo

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#17
In reply to #14

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 2:49 AM

After 30 years that stock is still "tacky" in hot weather.
.
There's some good stories coming out.
Del

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#26
In reply to #14

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 6:18 AM

got to admit i didnt know the difference

thanks for sharing

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#55
In reply to #14

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:15 AM

Wash it in meths that will clean it out.

Bazzer

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#81
In reply to #55

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 9:43 AM

Meths?

Milo

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#82
In reply to #81

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 9:48 AM
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#85
In reply to #81

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 12:12 PM

Meths = Denatured spirits....

Just seen, John was first with this comment.....

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#86
In reply to #85

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/07/2011 4:02 AM

And for the Etymologists here, "Meths" is short for Methylated Spirits.

Beloved of tramps everywhere, coloured purple and used in Trangia camping stoves.

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#87
In reply to #86

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/07/2011 4:12 AM

Why do insect collectors need to know that?
Del
<scampers off in haste>

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#90
In reply to #87

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/07/2011 8:30 AM

Lesson time:

Etymology

Entomology

You need the latter - you're definitely an amateur...

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#91
In reply to #90

Advanced Cat Spanking

12/07/2011 8:42 AM

Rose

You did see the thread title?

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#92
In reply to #91

Re: Advanced Cat Spanking

12/07/2011 8:48 AM

(Leaps to Rose' defense)

Always buy a car from an amateur mechanic! Never buy one from an actual car mechanic. They never service them. Ever.

And as for a professional Cat Spanker......

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#93
In reply to #92

Re: Advanced Cat Spanking

12/07/2011 8:59 AM

After all, Del never has problems with his car...

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#94
In reply to #91

Re: Advanced Cat Spanking

12/07/2011 9:02 AM

Uhuh. That piece of self-enlightenment is what prompted me to teach rather than chastise and anyway, he enjoys the latter too much. You should see his speed when I whistle...

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#89
In reply to #86

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/07/2011 6:05 AM

loved by tramps but lets point out that drinking it makes you blind and kills tissue and nerve cells in the body

coz we cant control what age group reads these pages

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#16

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 2:40 AM

Took the sump off my Morris 8/40 Series II sedan (1938), and found a bit of rubbish at the bottom. Dismantled the oil pump and over-pressure release valve. Clean, so put it all back together, filled the sump and fired up. Oops, no oil pressure. Yep, found a part I hadn't put back - the ball-bearing that the pressure-release spring held in place until the pressure rose high enough. Still don't know how I missed it.

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#18

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 4:17 AM

Back in the early Eighties a really pretty young Girl rode in to have an Oil change on Her little Yamaha.Struck by her and having a spare ten minutes or so i dropped the Drain Bolt out and as the Oil drained was Laughing about my Saturday Boy who had done a similar job recently.I proceeded to fill the Gearbox with fresh Oil whilst explaining the Idiot had left the Drain plug out whilst Filing the Box just as i noticed the Fresh Oil spreading across the Bench . . .

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#23
In reply to #18

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 5:19 AM

Love it! What guy hasn't made an ass of himself in front of a pretty girl?
Del

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#29
In reply to #23

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 8:31 AM

Guilty.

Not only in front of my new girlfriend, but in front of her dad and mom, too.

Drove into her dad's freshly re-topped driveway, parked, knocked on the door, escorted my date to the truck, got her in, started truck... POOF - FIRE - Panic!

Vehicle burst into flames on the spot. Fire department, news cameras, quite a party.

Not our idea of a hot date and her dad did not appreciate the redecorating of his asphalt.

We still got married some time later.

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#30
In reply to #23

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 8:44 AM

Guilty!

When still a schoolkid, I drove my Garelli 80 scooter into a brick wall (slowly!, and low angle of incidence) while distacted by a fine pair of ... legs. Made a right mess of the fairing. .

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#33
In reply to #23

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 10:15 AM

Guilty!

So distracted by the halter top on a pretty girl going the other way in traffic I rear-ended the car in front of me.

Since I was on a dirt bike I got to spend months in the hospital, good news was the old woman I rear-ended had the cutest grand-daughter.

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#20

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 4:50 AM

You're lucky it didnt cost you a new transmission or engine

Which is what happened to a friend who rebuilt a vintage ducati motorcycle on a friday and came back monday morning to find his colleague revving it up .

they run for 10 minutes without oil you know.

so now they have a yellow do not start tag tied to the ignition if anything shouldnt be started.

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#24

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 5:38 AM

So It's not just the Essex girls!

Bazzer

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#25
In reply to #24

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 5:41 AM

yeah, but no, but, at least I refilled the engine oil into the 710 hole.
Del

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#44
In reply to #25

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 7:31 AM

Funny story,back in the early eighties I used to manage a garage in east London, It was when we had the 1100s and mini's about, we used to MOT all cars but the 1100s mini's had a terrible habit of the floor panel's rotting, we had this Irish mechanic who was good at all repairs mechanical or bodywork, so it fell to him to weld these floor pans, one day an 1100 needed the drivers side floor-pan and a part of the drive shaft tunnel (they called it a drive shaft tunnel even though they were front wheel drive ) welding so paddy was called to do the work, as he was welding with a flame he had the necessary hose pipe standing by,unbeknown to paddy the fuel line ran along the inside of the tunnel and was made of plastic (can you see where this is going) anyway as he was welding there was a flame dripping on the floor and as soon as someone shouted to paddy he turned off the torch, let off the handbrake and started to push the car away from the burning puddle,unfortunately the puddle followed him gradually getting bigger,somebody grabbed the hose to douse the flames,you ever seen what happens when you put water on fuel, it went whoosh,Paddy ran the car exploded & I had to phone the owner to explain why his car failed the MOT.

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#27

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 7:20 AM

Back in the early 40's and 50's as 8 to 10 year olds we were started in the Mechanic business scraping heads and grinding valves and cleaning flat head motors for our dad to overhaul and at 12 we were doing it ourselves and was washing parts in a gasoline or white gas bucket. We would finish an overhaul and the ole man would say check the gas bucket and we would find a valve keeper or a rod bearing or various parts that raised a question as to paying careful attention to what we were doing. And knowing and not thinking when we found the extra part..We also learned the difference between a ford,chevy,plmouth parts..He would say look at the book and know what you are doing before you start..

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#28
In reply to #27

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 7:38 AM

bit different to the young generation coming out of school now .

i was welding , brazing , milling and machining from about 8 - 9 years of age

if you did that with a kid these days you would be jailed for enslavement or something.

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#32
In reply to #28

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 10:03 AM

I'll amen that. In the 70's I was setting a well pump in a farmer field in Oklahoma and seen this huge tractor green and broke in the middle, 4 wheel drive and pulling a disk over 40 foot wide with no driver, so it seemed. The next round the farmer drove in and picked up his 6 year old son and took him to lunch. I couldn't believe it, but today he's not only farming but has one of the largest heavy equipment oilfield repair service in the state...This has just became illegal...

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#38
In reply to #32

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 1:34 PM

wow

6 year old kid driving a tractor that big ....... roflol

i have seen it before but not that young

10 year old kids driving 10 ton trucks on the farm ( before power steering )

and i mean old trucks with no vacuum assist on the clutch either - a grown man would get sore legs from pumping the clutch to change gear let alone a kid

them was the days..... ;)

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#39
In reply to #38

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 1:37 PM

My kid sister was driving a 10 ton stock truck at that age, had to use an umbrella through the top of the tranny to shift

Kids are resilient

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#40
In reply to #39

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 1:40 PM

Heck, my Daughter was so quick she she popped straight out of Mrs Cat driving a fork lift.
Del

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#41
In reply to #40

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 1:46 PM

Actually a bit more of a comment on the shirt-tail crap we had to keep running than my sister's innate abilities

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#78
In reply to #27

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 7:12 AM

If only I'd been that lucky, I retired from the coal mines at the age of 10 & started a business cleaning chimneys, the times I got stuck & had to wait till I lost weight to be able to fall out, Happy days.

Bazzer

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#31

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 8:50 AM

Back in 1980 I had just finished rebuilding the big block in my '69 Pontiac Trans-Am that I had purchased three years earlier while in the service (was a NC car). I was happy and very excited to get to the point of adding the oil to the engine and firing up the beastie after a long 6 months rebuild.

Dumb thing was that I forgot to install the oil drain plug before filling the oil pan with 5-quarts of oil, all in the presence of my fiancee. I suppose I was watching Nancy's gorgeous ski-slope backside a little too much and not paying attention to the task at hand. Loooo and behold, I heard the oil splattering on dad's garage floor as it spilled out of the oil pan, much to my great embarrassment! Oil was everywhere on the concrete floor. My fiancee laughed so hard at my flub that it hurt her ribs! God, was I a moron or what, with a beat red face!? Joe Cool really frigged such a simple thing!

Dad wasn't happy that his pristine garage floor was now an oily mess. Boy, was he pis*ed!!! This is the very same concrete garage floor where he parked his Ferrari 308GTS! Now it had to sit outside until I cleaned up the mess to his satisfaction. He wasn't a happy camper 'cause this car never sat outside in the rain or even overnight.

I ended up spreading a ton of saw dust all over the affected area to soak-up as much oil as possible, sweeping up the gooey saw dust, followed by a detergent washing with a rented pressure washer. My oh my, this was getting to be an expensive operation indeed! The floor was never the same again though, much to my great embarrassment...and dad never allowed me to work on any of my cars in the garage thereafter!!!! Gee, I wonder why!!???? LOL

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#34

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 10:25 AM

Years back, my oldest son & I worked part-time at a local repair place. A friend of the owner was a super-fussy "customer". He came in one Saturday morning to change the oil himself, using the facilities for free as usual. He had dumped in the 4th quart, and had the 5th one open, when my son walked past the car and asked him why there was oil draining into the sump below the car. Yep: drain plug was still out, and "Mr. Fussy" was using the then brand-new $18 a quart synthetic-with-Teflon stuff that was supposed to only be used as an additive, one quart to a filling, for all five ("If a little is good, more is better") . . . And then he had to buy regular engine oil in order to refill and drive to another town where more of the wonder-oil could be bought! I think every mechanic in the shop laughed at that one for months. My son & I STILL do!

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#35

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 10:29 AM

As a teen I pulled my pickup into a remote gas station, and was impressed with the service. Young lad ran out asked how much fuel, could he get the windshield, etc.

I needed smokes and coffee from inside, so I told him fill it, windshield, and put a quart of 10-W40 in it. He was off like a shot.

I was inside chatting up his sister(happy surprise) when he came in looking puzzled and admitted he couldn't get a whole quart in. (background music sounds like dread)

Since it was a family gas station (mom, sis and young lad) I patiently went through valve covers vice power steering pumps with him. Borrowed a turkey baster and emptied the steering pump and even paid for the fluid refill.

Windshield was spotless!

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#36
In reply to #35

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 11:26 AM

Sounds like the time (12 years ago) my baby sister was driving home to KY and had stopped for gas near Harrisburg PA. The young kid at the service station pumped Diesel fuel into her Toyota instead of gas without my sister knowing anything about it. This being like 1 am in the morning. Well, Sis got about 15 miles down the road and the car's engine conked out....

Guess who got the telephone call so early in the morning!? MOI!!!!! "Come get me, my car broke down!" was the plea from Sis.

My reply: "What do ya mean come get you? Where's that dumbch*t of a husband...is HE coming to fetch you. After all he's much closer to you than I!"

Her reply: "He's not answering the telephone, freaking idiot!"

(in my mind I was thinking since that cat's not home the mice will play....that he's out drinking and screwing around with some bar fly....later on, I found out that this was actually the case! Next time I saw him on one of his visits to NY a few months later I literally kicked his ass but good for playing around on my baby sister. Divorce followed...the best thing that could have happened to my sis was to drop that jerky boy!!!! ARRGGGHHHH!!!!)

After a 5 hour drive from my home in upstate NY I found her stranded along I-81, on the shoulder. Not one PA State Trooper had stopped to ask if she was okay or needed assistance, even though several had passed her by (coffee and jelly doughnut runs? hehehehe). Well, by 8 AM I found a AAA tow truck service nearby and had her car towed several exits down the highway. After getting the car up on the lift the mechanics then discovered that diesel fuel was in the tank! They dropped the gas tank and cleaned it out along with gas line and injectors, as well as replacing the fuel filter. Mega Bucks! Thank goodness for plastic to pay for it all.

Geee, guess who paid for the repairs? I'm such a good Big Brother! Yeah right! LOL Come to think of it, she never did pay me back for the repairs done on her piece of ch*t Jap car....

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#37

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 12:05 PM

This could turn out to be the most replied to thread on CR4. 50% admit to doing stupid and the other 50% are liars.

I made the assumption the starter on my F150 truck was bad because it wouldn't turn over. I went down to the store and bought a new starter, installed it and nothing. Finally discovered the battery was dead. I couldn't return the new starter.

My daughter borrowed my diesel truck and when filling it at the station, put in gasoline (petrol) instead of diesel. The tank had to be dropped, drained and reinstalled before it could move.

I'm sure I could remember other stupid things I've done, not just with vehicles, but that's for another show.

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#42

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/03/2011 10:38 PM

I put a half full can of yellow paint on the anvil of my power hammer last week "for just a moment". Then stepped onto the start pedal on my way over to get the paint brush.

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#43
In reply to #42

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 3:05 AM

lol

what size can of paint ?

was it enough to cover all the walls or do you need to do some touching up in the places it missed ?

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#46
In reply to #43

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 8:09 PM

Oh, it was a quart can mostly full of yellow oil paint, I was just about to paint the machine a bright "safety" yellow. It saved me the trouble...

Not a LOT of touching up to finish the job on the walls.....I don't think it missed a single tool in the shop. Including the biggest tool of all, the one in the size eight boots.

If it was an employee who had done it, I would have fired him.

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#47
In reply to #46

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 8:27 PM

the biggest tragedy in your case is not having a CCTV recording of it

thanks for sharing and best wishes Yusef1

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#54
In reply to #47

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:13 AM

SURELY he can do it again for posterity, it will fill in any small areas left unpainted!!!

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#45
In reply to #42

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 11:39 AM

Hammer has GOT to be lovely!

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#48

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 8:56 PM

We had a electricity cut out and were running on the emergency lighting system i had made using my old car battery and some battery charger, when the 12V fluorescent lamp went dimming. The battery needs some water was my first thought. So i opened one of the caps to check. But the light was too dim and I couldn't see anything. Right then I did the wrongest thing. I Lighted my cigarette lighter and tried to peep inside the hole. There was was a big bang as the battery exploded. The acid was all over the rug that was boiling and fuming. I can still remember the feeling of my eyeball being sucked out as hydrogen doesn't explode it implodes. Too lucky to have my eyes intact.

well, guys be careful old batteries do produce lot of hydrogen.

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#49
In reply to #48

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/04/2011 9:34 PM

Watched from too far away to stop it a maintenance supervisor do the same thing with a Zippo on the wing of an aircraft.

Fuel tanks had been open and venting for days. Still blew him through the roof of the hangar, nearly destroyed the aircraft.

Just a moments distraction....

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#50
In reply to #49

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 3:42 AM

I have a friend who recieved a call when over at mine one day, conversation went thus...

"Hi Dad, whats up? You can't start the car? What have you done this time? Changed the oil? OK, talk me through it...." A long pause caintaining many ok's "Well that sounds ok. So the last thing you did was put the oil in, and now it won't even turn over? Hmm....What? WHAT? You put how much in? A mini won't hold that much! Has it come out on the floor? No?" A longer pause, followed by a very strained, slow "DAD, YOU DON'T FILL IT TO THE TOP OF THE ROCKER BOX! DON'T TOUCH IT, I'LL BE RIGHT 'ROUND!"

We dashed 'round, drained it off, pulled the spark plugs, filled the bay with rags, then turned it over. Luckily only 2 bores were full, and it didnt cover everything! It smoked a bit for a few days!

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#51
In reply to #50

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 3:50 AM

Stopped the piston rings from sticking though...
Del

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#66
In reply to #51

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 5:49 AM

I have just remembered a moment if gross stupidity on my part!

We were modifying a car (putting in a V8) and needed to relocate a cross member, so I fabricated one out of 1.2mm MS sheet. Basically, 2 U shapes pushed together. Got around the next night to weld up the seams once it had been fitted to the car, got about 1/2 way down when there was a WOOOF noise, and I saw the sides bulge throught the welding helmet.....

After a short interval to change and get cleaned up, further investigation revield that the inside had been rust proofed that very day using that old standby, " A can of paint I had left over in the shed, I had to thin it a bit...."

It would have been cellulose, too. I thought I could smell it when I got there....

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#67
In reply to #50

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 6:27 AM

I had a girl friend who did something similar. Old polo, my bf did the oil change, left her with the rest of the 5 litre can, with instructions to check the levels over the next week and top up if necessary.

A week later, we got a call that the car wouldn't start. She'd checked and topped up the oil each day, adding about 2.5 litres (1/2 gallonUK).

We drained and hand cranked. It ran, but smoked.

I never did find out how this PhD student failed to read a dipstick....

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#75
In reply to #67

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 10:57 PM

BS MS PhD = Bull Sh*t with More Sh*t Piled higher & Deeper

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#77
In reply to #75

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 12:16 AM

PhD ≈ Purely hypothetical Drivel

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#79
In reply to #75

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 8:06 AM

masu, that was totally uncalled for, and I seriously resent the implication(s)....

Plus, said statement has no bearing on this thread whatsoever.

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#83
In reply to #79

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 11:44 AM

you resemble that remark

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#84
In reply to #79

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 12:11 PM

Sadly, I understand where he is coming from as well......PhD people are not my cup of tea either......I have known quite a few over the last 50 odd years, none of them were worth their salt......he said it, I thought it too!! Sorry.....

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#52
In reply to #49

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 3:51 AM

saw a guy sandblasting a fuel tank

boom

paleface makum smoke signals

( the sandblasting grit makes tiny sparks when it hits the steel )

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#57
In reply to #52

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:32 AM

Ref; my blog 44, Paddy who as I said was responsible for welding seemed to get loads of motorbike fuel tanks to weld,( off the bike I might add ) & to make them safe he would put them on the floor against the wall & put a lighted oxy-acetylene torch down the neck, mostly they would just go whoosh but occasionally they went bang but he never lost a patient or a finger.

Bazzer

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#61
In reply to #57

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:48 AM

if he measured the capacity and width of the tank before igniting the fumes he would notice they became geometrically modified after the kabooming

yes . it expands the tank and the rider will have to spread his legs a bit wider , resulting in a poor aerodynamic profile and drag coefficient

fortunately the tank will hold more petrol so it will compensate for the poor miles per gallon fuel consumption

serious.

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#64
In reply to #57

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:58 AM

another note to ad regarding motorbike fuel tanks

if you did choose to ignite the gas that way and then waited a few hours you could get another explosion

if there is rust in the tank the fuel soaks into it , it will still create explosive fumes in the tank some time after the first explosion

i wouldnt recommend that method

best way for me is steam clean and then purge it with argon gas or CO2 during welding at a slow feed rate of around 5 litres/min

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#53
In reply to #49

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 3:55 AM

It is illegal here now for enclosed vans or cars to carry gas bottles inside or in the trunk ( its called the boot in Australia )

i know of at least 5 cases where a driver has opened the vehicle door , interior light turns on ... boom

they have been mostly tradesmens vehicles such as plumbers vans with gas bottles inside , leaking cylinder or a loose cylinder rolling around inside , valve comes loose and its a ready made bomb.

It makes confetti of the vehicle , and many of those people died.

how about in the USA and other countries ?

has it also been made illegal there too ?

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#56
In reply to #53

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:23 AM

As far as I am aware, there have not been any laws in Europe about this.....perhaps we have better valves, but really I have no idea....

We do seem to have special caps to screw over the valve opening that hold full pressure, even on Propane cylinders, so its "belt & Braces".....maybe you either don't have that or some people are too "busy" to use them. Can you give us more details please, photos?

If you wish I can make photos of British and German cylinders.....

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#63
In reply to #56

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/05/2011 4:52 AM

we dont have a safety plug like yours

google search images " van car explosion gas cylinder "

i found many dozens of images , but as i say i have heard of at least 5 on the news in the last 10 years here

and our local gas distributor has photos on the wall to show people who complain when they are refused supply of gas bottles

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#80
In reply to #56

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/06/2011 8:42 AM

photos below to serve as a reminder on safety with gas bottle transport

I have seen other examples over the years on TV news but couldnt find photos of them on the 'net

photo 1 Oxy Acetylene

Photo 2 MAAP gas ( similar to butane )

Photo 3 9 kg LPG barbecue gas

Photo 4 9 kg LPG again

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#95
In reply to #80

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/12/2011 6:29 AM

another death in australia today

acetylene or LPG

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8388226/man-critically-injured-in-van-explosion

hyperlink doesnt like mozilla today sorry peeps

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#96
In reply to #95

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/17/2011 9:01 PM

i think australia needs to change laws or design of the gas bottles we use here

another one today . that was a toyota Hiace , not sure what gas type caused it but he was a refrigeration mechanic so he would have had a few non flammable reefer' gases plus probably LPG or oxy acetylene

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-16/20111216-darwin-blast-man-dies/3734692

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#97
In reply to #96

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 12:06 AM

Leaking cylinders in an enclosed space is definitely a serious problem. However, in Australia with it's very to extremely hot summers and all year round in the northern areas like Darwin you have additional problems. I've personally seen an acetylene cylinders safety valve blow just because the cylinder was left in direct sunlight for a little over an hour and that was in Sydney not Darwin which is in the tropics where the sunlight is considerably stronger.

So even if you do have an open van unless you provide some sort of protection from the sun you're still going to have problems. Not to mention the problem with vandals and idiot school kids doing stupid things to cylinders left unsecured.

It's a sticky problem, your sort of dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

The only possible solution I can see would be to store the cylinders in a secured cage that had a cover that protected them from direct sunlight. Either that or get a van that has a separate driving cab then remove the windows in the back and replace them with steel mesh that would prevent the accumulation of any leaking gas while still providing shelter and security for the cylinders.

Mind you, the addition of mandatory detectors that can warn of a dangerous gas build up would certainly be a step in the right direction.

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#98
In reply to #97

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 4:49 AM

There needs to be a national rethink and action on this by workcover.

Start with Gas detectors inside the van with a warning beeper and visible flashing indicator ( all flameproof ) so the driver gets warned before he opens the door and perhaps also disconnect the door switch

and a flameproof fan on the vehicle roof which the driver can switch on manually from outside the vehicle to vent the fumes , or an automatic one that vents the fumes and also registers the event to anyone who walks near the vehicle.

perhaps also look at a battery isolator that triggers when the gas detector sniffs any explosive gases , and allow battery power to operate only the detector and venting fans.

storing gas bottles inside their own sealed compartment which vents to atmosphere might have to be considered too

If euro countries have gas bottle valve caps or plugs to be used during transit , then that may also have to be implemented , although as you mentioned , the heat levels in australia can cause the burst discs to operate and then you can have up to 6 cubic metres of gas purging out.

We have had way too many deaths here from this situation.

If the abovementioned equipment can be designed and built in bulk ( 10,000's units ) they may be able to get the price down to under $ 300 - 400 so it is affordable and more likely to be implemented.

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#100
In reply to #98

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 5:55 AM

I think you will find, if you look it up, work-cover requires compressed gas cylinders be stored upright [in wire cages where theft is an issue] outdoors.

"Upright" is to do with insolation minimum absorption area.

I.e. Do not lay them down in the sun. Do not keep them in a closed space.

You will not find a gas supplier or retailer who does not comply with the above.

Millions of cylinders are safely transported, and stored, and operated, every day, without incident, by people observing these basic rules.

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#103
In reply to #100

Re: Stupid Kitty

12/18/2011 8:29 AM

wouldnt matter if they were stored upright in a vehicle or not , you can still get faulty valves or people forgetting to close them.

add a confined space , a few percent or more of gas , a spark from the door switch or other electrical source and boom.

there needs to be a different approach to eliminate all risk factors in that equation

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#107
In reply to #103

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/18/2011 11:06 PM

It does matter. It all matters. Read this;

Link

But how unequipped with simple observation skills do you have to be, not to notice how its done all around you?

Did these victims have vented regulation workcover compliant cabinets?

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#108
In reply to #107

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/18/2011 11:59 PM

yes some of them had sealed storage compartments fitted in the vehicles

but were they properly vented ?

was the door closed and sealed or left open ?

were the door seals operative or damaged and leaking ?

were other gas cylinders also being carried in the van but not stored in an approved compartment ?

were hoses purged after being removed from the bottles or left on the floor of the van to leak out gas ?

Having laws and regulations is nice but when an exhuberant tradesman rushes between 3 - 5 jobs in one day they are unlikely to unscrew the regs and hoses every time in compliance with the act , let alone removing regs and closing the compartment when they get home tired each day.

note most of these deaths occur in the morning when they open the door to leave for work.

Despite the current laws or " guidelines and recommendations " i would still like to find a better way .

In answer to your question , i have not climbed in the back of every vehicle in the country to keep a score card of how its done versus what the rules recommend , and any dangerous goods i carry or handle are on the back of open vehicles.

have a nice day :)

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#109
In reply to #108

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 3:23 PM

Turning off the cylinders is not that hard [and can save you $]

If you have experience with oxy, you would be aware that the more common leaks are regulator seals and handpiece valves - not cylinder valves, that are checked at every recharge.

To achieve an explosive mix,[in bigger than a breadbox], you need more gas than the volume in reg and hoses. (i.e. it takes a cylinder fed leak all night)

So perhaps the simpler safety thing for those who wish to carry gas inside a closed vehicle, [as opposed to on the back tray, like sane folk] and are too exuberant to turn off their cylinders, or close their 'approved vented' cabinets, is to switch off [or disable] the interior light.

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#110
In reply to #109

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 5:09 PM

Being as how most of the explosive gasses being discussed are either rather more or less dense than air, I'd've thought a roof vent and another near or in the floorpan would do the trick for any slow leaks (my banger'd be OK - door seals are shot ).

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#112
In reply to #110

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 5:32 PM

Pure Oxygen is heavier than air

LPG is heavier than air

Pure Acetylene is lighter than air but if mixed with acetone content it can become heavier.

MAPP gas i am still checking ( propylene + propane )

vents yes - or flameproof fans

except in the case where the vehicle is parked in a garage - oops

:)

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#113
In reply to #110

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 6:04 PM

There is that partial pressure thing and dispersion thing.

But I guess the presumption is the leak forces the (enriching) gas (mixture) out of the vent, not into cabin space.

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#114
In reply to #113

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 7:24 PM

Guess it depends whether the leak works like a trickle (drifting up or down) or a spray (getting quickly mixed with the air). I suspect (tho' don't know) that if an O2 cylinder valve was opened very gently at floor level, the oxygen would form a layer, displacing the N2 O2 etc. mixture. Given a hole in the floor, it would flow through it.

(Consider CO2 - trickle it into an enclosed air-filled space, and it will form a layer at the bottom - but CO2 in the atmosphere doesn't usually settle out).

There are a lot of assumptions here about the type of flow and the flow rate, but a few holes top & bottom must help in many cases.

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#111
In reply to #109

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/19/2011 5:26 PM

the more common leaks are regulator seals and handpiece valves

yes i agree with the above , though i have had 4 - 5 cylinders over the years with leaking burst disks which you cant turn off even if you screwed a plug into the cylinder valve.

if that happens with a frequency of 0.005 % ( i checked my usage and handling figures ) multiply that by the small number of the population using these things with enclosed vehicles , add faulty equipment with the stupid factor of the ones who break the rules through laziness or being " too busy " . you get a very small figure of risk that nonetheless can translate into work for tombstone suppliers.

disconnecting the door switch and interior light at least gives them a chance to vent some gas and maybe smell the leaking gas ( if its LPG or acetylene )

i know we can do better .

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#115
In reply to #109

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/20/2011 4:44 AM

With acetylene thats not true, explosive mixture starts at about 5% Gas to 95% air......

Propane etc. are far more......

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#116
In reply to #115

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/20/2011 6:32 PM

Well actually acetylene LEL is 2.5% and UEL 82%, but you are not going to get much of a bang in the lean end of that and it's more difficult to set off.

Propane LEL is 2.1 to UEL 9.5 -10.1, so a narrower band, but the same applies to the energy of a lean mix.

Temp and pressure also has a bearing.

So my given statement means you'd need a smaller volume than a van to get dangerous mix out of the volume in the reg and hose, I look forward to your clarification as to why that is "not true".

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#117
In reply to #116

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/20/2011 6:59 PM

when you used the term "breadbox" above , were you referring to a box used to store bread in a family kitchen , or is that a slang term used to describe a small van ?

i interpreted your post to mean a small box and felt that the gas in hoses would be enough to give an explosive ratio , however acetylene in an 8 metre hose only occupies 0.0002 cubic metres at 100 kPa which i think becomes 0.0004 cubes when released ? can someone verify that for me ??

if so then even if mixed with 1 cubic metre of air its way under the LEL

you would need 2.5 litres acetylene per cubic metre oxygen but if hoses only hold 0.4 litres then i was wrong.

have a nice day genitalia

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#118
In reply to #117

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/20/2011 8:25 PM

Well, I was actually responding to Andy

But I sort of expected someone to go for "100 kpa" (14.5 psi) (red line) as these plumbers were obviously last cutting 1" plate.

Or perhaps wondering why the silver solder was blowing all over the place?

Yes one would expect the drop from 2 atm absolute to 1 atm to result in a doubling of volume in what can be taken as an isothermal time frame. But the typical CIG plumbers Colt kit has 10 m hoses, so there is a bit more on your side.

This would be the traditional Australian farmhouse version to which that expression refers. But of course the expression has become loose as to strict dimensions, like the length of a "piece of string"

"genitalia" Heheheeeee. Good to see you still have a sense of humor

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#119
In reply to #118

Re: Stupid Nannies

12/20/2011 8:56 PM

yes you are correct , it was an oversight on my part to use 100 kPa , i only use 70 kPa and a # 24 tip when silver soldering my heavy items with LPG / OXY but plumbers would be using way lower as you quoted when working with pissy 18 gauge copper pipe

pardon my failure to clearly define breadth and scope of detail

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#120
In reply to #116

Re: Common Sense versus Theory only

12/21/2011 6:53 AM

The low and high values you stated are most probably correct (mine were from an old memory), but that is still IN the danger area.......you can ineffectively argue that an explosion is less likely at the low and high levels, it being true but still totally unpractical to take as "SAFE"!!

Also do remember that the mixture could even be stratified inside the vehicle to some degree, some areas therefore far more dangerous than others.....but if one concentration gets ignited, I am sure that the others will "allow" themselves to also be burnt!!.......

Surely you would not wish to imply that say with a remote sensing of the mixture, and foreknowledge of a "less" dangerous concentration BEFORE you stepped into the vehicle, you might say, "Ah, my car has only 2.5% acetylene (remember, this is just where the sensor is placed!)", you would be personally happy to open the door and therefore operate the door light switch?, if your remote sensing only gave a low or very high reading? I think not!!!!

It would reasonable to say that ANY reading of ANY concentration should or would be taken VERY seriously indeed!

Note:-

There are people here on CR4 who seem to be able to deal ONLY with theory situations and others who can ONLY deal with practice.

It is far better to understand fully both of them and use that dual understanding and knowledge in a common sense manner.......few here seem achieve that!

The question is, in which category would you (rather) be in? T, P or CS?

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