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Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/26/2012 10:54 AM

Well this is embarrassing. But not as embarrassing as it would be if I was a designer at American Standard.

I've been dealing with a clogging AS toilet for over a year. I couldn't figure out why it was happening, and I guess they don't know either. I called their customer service line last week, and was told by the girl on the other end, that I had bought one of two models that had a history of clogging, it was out of warranty, and to go buy another toilet. Thank you............Goodbye.

Earlier, I had cut out my plumbing in the basement, checked venting, and reinstalled new. I couldn't imagine that a company would sell a product that didn't work...........I must have done something wrong. No help with the new plumbing.

Today I decided to really study the problem, in hopes that I could re-engineer the toilet to work right. I have a Kohler toilet upstairs that has never had a problem. The tank to toilet holes are the same size, both are 1.6 GPF, and both have almost identical floats and flapper valves.

What's different? After a couple of trips back and fourth, I found only one thing..............the tank on the Kohler was smaller.

Hmmm. Well the only logical explanation, (to me), is that the smaller tank resulted in an increased velocity of the water from the tank to the toilet, during the flush.

I tested my theory, and my downstairs toilet now flushes perfectly.

This fixed it. A two liter bottle, filled with water.

Hopefully someone else can use this information. I'm feeling kind of dumb at the moment.

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#83

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 4:22 AM

Is it something to do with the quantity and quality of the American diet?

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#84
In reply to #83

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 4:34 AM

A filter/strainer might solve the problem if inserted when not in use.

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#85
In reply to #83

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 6:36 AM

I bet you are right.... quality and quantity of the American diet is the sure culprit.

.

Though I bet you wouldn't even need to worry about the quantity if you just replaced the American food with some quality British meals like:

.Black pudding

.Haggis

.Winkles

.Laver bread

.Toad in the hole

.Bubble and squeak

and who could forget...

.Spotted dick.

mmm mmm.

Nope, no worries about quantity of consumption after these substitutions.

At any rate, if you are going to call your toilet 'American Standard', it should be able to handle the standard American low quality high quantity diet, if not they should rename it 'Euro commode Jr.' or something like that.

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#86
In reply to #85

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 6:43 AM

Great list, but not really complete!

I miss a lot of that stuff.....

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#93
In reply to #85

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 11:42 AM

Hey now my wife named the two cats Mr and Ms Squeak.

Although yes I do have to admit I have been tempted to flush Mr. Squeak, also known as Mr Stink and Mr farty cat too, down the toilet. (Scientific testing purposes you know.)

He seems to love rolling around in horse poop before she lets him in the house and thinks that I am 'his person' now.

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#87
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 6:59 AM

Or is it due to irresponsible behaviour of some adults and kids?.

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#91

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 9:05 AM

I'm surprised you didn't have that water saving device in there already....

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#94

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 2:33 PM

Dear Kramarat, It's your vent baby it is too far away or partly plugged (may be bird nest) Good luck.

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#97
In reply to #94

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/30/2012 6:59 AM

Yep. Thought of that one. Just to make sure it wasn't a venting problem, I removed the trap from the bathroom sink, which left open pipe down to the toilet drain. No help.

I just got my secure password yesterday, to get into the AS investor portal. A quick look at their numbers will help determine the gist of my letter, along with how serious they are about customer service.

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#98
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/30/2012 7:16 AM

Also, the upstairs toilet and downstairs toilet are vented through the same stack.

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#100
In reply to #98

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/30/2012 12:46 PM

The usual caveat: Check your local codes. Requirements can vary.

Not a problem with multiple commodes on a single stack. All the stack has to do is introduce enough air to disrupt or break the 'slug' of water moving down the drain. I can drain a tub, flush three toilets, drain six sinks, and my show stall simultaneously with a single three inch stack (on the toilet lines and branched out with 1.5 in and 2 in. vent stack to the other legs) and not pull any of the traps dry. However, all my plumbing is in one corner of the house (two story) so I don't have any horizontal runs of vent longer than about 8 foot. There is very little pressure drop across the stack to pull in some air. My downstairs toilet/sink + kitchen sink have a separate 2 in. vent stack going up into the attic and does not rely on the soil stack from the upstairs to introduce air. The two inch vent stack combines with the 3 in. stack from the two upstairs baths with multiple sinks. There are also a couple of 1.5 in. vents servicing the sinks so those are vented within about a foot from the sink traps.

When plumbers put in the stacks, they don't care about how many holes they put in the roof (that's for the roofers to worry about), it's easier to run them all straight up. I ganged mine together to reduce the number of roof penetrations. Previously, my roof looked like a porcupine in that corner of the house.

The key to running the stacks together is to ensure all horizontal runs have no low points to trap any rain or condensate and at least a 1/8 over 12 slope. The short horizontal runs in the attic are also under insulation to help keep them 'warm' so the condensate doesn't freeze in place resulting in blockage from an ice dam.

As always, check your local codes for specific requirements. Here's what's written about it on Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumbing_vent

Cheers !

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#102
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/30/2012 4:47 PM

I've checked and rechecked everything. Vent is fine. No backpressure on discharge end, etc, etc.

It's an engineering problem with the toilet itself. The Cadet 3 that Ozzb got, will probably work great. AS changed from a 2" tank discharge hole, to a 3". Much faster flow. Particularly important on the oval bowl.

I'll have some time tomorrow to begin my assault on them. I just need to find the person that can authorize a check being sent to me for a replacement.

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#96

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/29/2012 9:24 PM

Get a Japanese Washlet!

Your Bum will thank you!

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#103

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/30/2012 10:54 PM

I've been doing the same thing for years, with plastic containers, usually with sand or gravel in the bottom to increase the weight an keep it from creeping around and bumping into the flush mechanism.

Recently, our (at least ten year old) toilet was getting clogged on a regular basis. No apparent reason. I reinstalled it with a fresh wax ring on the advise of a plumber friend. Still clogging. I eventually gave up and replaced it. I didn't feel like driving it across town to the city dump, so broke it into pieces to drop into our street garbage. Lo and behold! The passage that the "stuff" flows through had a mineral build up and was barely an inch or less in diameter. This was invisible from the bowl or the bottom.

No problem any more.

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#104
In reply to #103

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/31/2012 11:02 AM

Probably what we call here "Urin-stein" or "We We Stone"......

There are a range of "dis-solvers" for such concentrations around......or Hydrochloric Acid, in a reduced strength form.....leave overnight.

There are also toilet products that when added will also dissolve the concentrations, but slower. Its actually better to use them once a week to clean off anything before it gets too thick. In the UK, there are many products like Harpic for instance, which if drunk, will send you "clean round the bend!"

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#105

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/31/2012 12:14 PM

Both phone and email is down at AS, due to hurricane.

I've been visiting some plumbing forums, and these early low flush models are hated by everyone out there.

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#106

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/31/2012 2:58 PM

Since 1992, all residential-type toilets manufactured in the U.S. use no more than 1.6 gallons per flush.

Because in 1992 Congress passed the Energy Policy Act which set national standards for plumbing fixtures to promote conservation. It was suppose to save water, energy and money....... at least on paper.

Of course since our elected leaders enforced this, the concept actually turned brown........ so to speak. What happened is that you had to flush a number of times to have it function. And that is just to flush down toilet paper.

Or the very minimum you can use what they call a plumbers flush. Which is nothing more than holding the handle down a few seconds longer when you flush.

The only other alternative I can offer is, eat more fiber.

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#107

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

10/31/2012 3:09 PM

Does anyone remember when the tanks were up by the ceiling and the gravity drop helped the flush? Why don't they do that anymore? Is it just esthetics?

The bottle of water or brick in the tank lessens the volume of water while maintaining the same height?depth of water. The alternative is to lower the fill level but that lowers the depth and consequentially the pressure.

i have a couple of those power flush units. we have to warn guests before they flush them. they're scary if you're not expecting the noise. they seem to gush the water into the bowl better but the flush itself still depends on gravity.

another issue is to make sure the wax ring hasn't deteriorated and is allowing air to suck in. that seal is important to help the flush. the water going down the pipe helps create a vacuum inside the toilet.

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#108

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/01/2012 7:09 AM

I looked at toilets yesterday. First of all, they all seem to be down to a 1.28 GPF. They also are a lot cheaper than I thought.

I saw some Fluidmaster tank kits, that claim to take care of problems. They're only about $10. Maybe worth a try.

I don't really want to go to a lower volume flush, since my septic system requires a certain amount of water to work right.

There's one last thing that I haven't checked. The seal between the tank and the bowl might be sucking air when flushing. This could also be a culprit.

I think I'm back to square one. I'm going to have to try to retrofit this tank to give me a 3.5 GPF. Another common problem that I'm finding, is that for people on septic, the low flush toilets don't provide enough water to get the solids to the septic tank. It is creating blockages in the main line.

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#109

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 2:20 PM

Update:

I pulled the tank today, and replaced the guts with this kit. It seems to be a much better flush. I'll give it a few days and let you guys know.

http://www.fluidmaster.com/our-products/fill-valves-repair-kits/complete-toilet-tank-repair-kit.html

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#110
In reply to #109

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 2:36 PM

No pictures?

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#112
In reply to #110

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 3:24 PM

The picture would look about like the original. I do like the fine tuning on both the flush volume and the water level though.

I hope it works. I'm not moving to a 1.28GPF toilet. I'll put in an outhouse first.

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#111
In reply to #109

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 2:38 PM

Yes, keep us posted.

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#113

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 4:08 PM

Other people have told me that basement toilets don't flush as well as ones on the main level, even if the same model. The reason is unknown. It may have to do with the extra length of pipe with compressible air in the drain. You didn't mention a septic system in your OP. I was on one several years ago. Your leach lines may be restricted. Try adding some anaerobic bacteria to you system to clean them out. There are several brands available. I had to have my tank pumped put a couple times before I diverted my clothes washer water to another place.

If you build an outhouse, be sure to make it out of birch - then you can be a member of the Birch John Society.

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#114
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/02/2012 5:33 PM

Yeah, the wash machine is on a separate leach line.

When I originally bought the toilet, (around 2004), it came with preinstalled tank components.

When I took it apart today, I not only found that the tank to bowl holes will accomodate a larger flapper valve, but the kit that I bought says that if I have an older, 3.6GPF toilet, that I will have to buy a different flapper.

Now that I'm a potty detective, I'd say that many of the manufacturers, in order to both, meet the government mandate, and not spend the money on a total redesign, attempted to keep the same toilet designs as the original 3.6GPF, and meet the 1.6GPF, by simply changing out the tank plumbing. By doing so, they met the 1.6GPF requirement, but missed the mark on actual performance.

This toilet isn't in the basement. I've got a basement, 1st floor, and second floor. This is on the first floor.

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#122

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 8:31 AM

Accidentally also posted in the wrong blog!!!!

---------------------------------------------

I mentioned earlier about what we in Germany call "Urinstein" (Urine Stone) that can build up in toilets and may cause such problems as seen here.

I cannot find a "proper" translation for this word into English, but one of you may know one once you have read this post.

German Wiki has an article on it, useless if you cannot read German, but the pictures will help. Also, I will translate the paragraph to the best of my understanding of the problem.

Urinary stone is a yellowish-brown crystalline deposition and precipitation caused by the urine in toilets and urinals in hard or soft form.

Urine stains are caused by a chemical reaction of hard water (usually the rinse water ) and urine. Dissolved solids in the water combine with calcium in the urine, and the uric acid acts as the catalyst to an insoluble calcium - magnesium compound. This compound is present as a mixture of carbonates, oxalates , phosphates, and sulfates.

The resulting solids are composed of the mineral struvite, hydroxyapatite and calcite. The mixture is fixed only by a high pH value, through the involved bacteria (important for urea reduction ). Normal urine cannot achieve this hard desposit as its usually a low pH and the stone cannot then happen.

I hope this helps anyone with such a problem......often it is in the soil pipe where it cannot even be seen....

The German link with pictures can be found here:-

Urinstein

If you need any further help, please simply ask.

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#126
In reply to #122

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 9:22 AM

Thanks Andy. That's not a problem at the moment, but it's good information to have.

I never pee inside, and fortunately I live in an area where going outside is not a problem. The deer have not complained so far.

Years of painting bathrooms for people that don't give me the courtesy of a cleaning before I arrive, has proven to me that there really isn't a sanitary way for men to use indoor toilets, while standing up. Even with perfect aim, it splashes outside the toilet. I'm sure that the women know exactly what I'm talking about. Even in the homes of the wealthy, the floor around the toilet is a sticky mess.

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#127
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 9:39 AM

Well, if it's any comfort I sit on the pot to pee for that very reason. I absolutely cannot stand that mess around the bog wot comes from splashing. There are ways to design stand-up piss bogs for men but it's not exactly the career of choice for most budding Einsteins. They do what Am Std does: make the surface flat such as to maximise splatter. There are people who don't Get It, but also those wot can't. These either work for AS or, failing that, M$.

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#128
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 9:50 AM

.....or ones with Prostate problems......

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#129
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 9:56 AM

I doubt I'll apply for any more patents any time soon, but I came up with an idea to have a biodegradable substance incorporated into the tank water, (much like the dispensers that turn the water blue), that would create a thin layer of foam on the surface of the water after every flush.......................kind of like an 1/8" layer of shaving cream. This would effectively stop the splashing, I think.

The technology is already out there. It would require tweeking the recipe for existing, (biodegradable), fire fighting foam. It remains liquid until it's agitated, and breaks down over a given amount of time.

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#131
In reply to #129

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 10:36 AM

I pee sitting down, too. I wear shorts a lot and that makes the splater unpleasantly noticeable.

When I pee in the woods, I've found that spanish moss is the best thing to pee on. the soft loose fibers of it don't let any splash occur. (I live in Florida).

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#132
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:09 AM

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one that notices these things.

Yes. Wearing shorts makes the splash very apparent.

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#143
In reply to #132

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 2:43 PM

It certainly wasn't apparent to a certain dog-owner in Chagrin Falls, Ohio, whom my wife and I watched as his leashed dog drained its full bladder on his bare leg with him standing there oblivious to it all. We saw the stream run down the bloke's leg, over his sandled foot and onto the ground. Damndest thing we ever saw - except maybe for the lady in Shaker Heights who fell asleep standing in the teller line at the bank, sound asleep whilst freestanding, completely unsupported; or the traffic at a major intersection not noticing the traffic lights go through not one, but *two* complete cycles before anyone moved, or the soccer mom behind us at the drive-thru ATM who was still asleep in her SUV in the same exact spot after we drove around the block just to see if she still was. The dog, meanwhile, seemed hugely satisfied with himself, much as George W. Bush seemed after the election and possibly for the same reason? :)

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#145
In reply to #143

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 2:59 PM

Reminds me of Burt Reynolds line in "The Best Little Whore House in Texas".

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#149
In reply to #143

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 6:31 PM

'...his leashed dog drained its full bladder on his bare leg with him standing there oblivious to it all....'

.

Odds are, he is diabetic, and an associated neuropathy keeps him from feeling things (like dog piss) on his lower legs.

.

This theory does nothing however to explain America's non-reaction to being pissed upon by George W Bush.

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#151
In reply to #149

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 7:50 PM

How do you explain the rest? People falling asleep - literally - at traffic lights, at the bank, almost like narcolepsy, but so many people! These weren't isolated incidents by any stretch, but they seemed limited to Cuyahoga County and environs. I figured one day my chances of seeing someone fall asleep under these or similar circumstances approached 100% within 20 minutes of us going somewhere - shopping, going to a restaurant or whatever. What IS it about that place? Heavy metals poisoning? Mittal Steel is nearly in the center of Cleveland. Might that have something to do with it? In the 60s the Cuyahoga River caught fire and, farther downstream, near Youngstown, the grass was iridescent green and when the cows ate it their teeth fell out. Something is very wrong with that place and it's not being addressed. That 'obliviousness' we saw wasn't limited to that one man. My wife and I both saw it in her college students. One girl stared vacuously into space. We'd see individuals standing at a store window who'd stopped to look and then fell asleep, still standing, like that girl in the bank teller line. It was the most bizarre place I ever lived. ???

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#153
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 8:43 PM

I don't have an explanation that covers all the events you describe.

.

I didn't intend to belittle the level of weird attributed to the experiences you describe.

.

I was only stating that diabetic neuropathy is fairly common, and it is a reasonable assumption that it was responsible for the particular case you describe.... You know, just following the old axiom, "when you hear a thunder of galloping hoof beats, don't expect for zebras" (unless you happen to be in the Serengeti or the zebra pen at the zoo).

.

I don't think having a plausible explanation for just that one observation detracts from the oddity of the collection. I'm certain it doesn't detract meaningfully from the inability of any single cause to neatly explain your conglomeration of observations.

.

Any explanation would at least have to include:

texas sharp shooter bias, confirmation bias, availability cascade, and illusory correlation.....at a minimum

.

That's four causes already, so what you describe is still sufficiently weird to defy (a single, sufficient) explanation.

.

J/K. If I had witnessed those things in a short period of time, I would also think it pretty strange.

.

I still have to ask....do you ever worry that whatever was effecting the cows that were grazing on winter rye, and the sleepy banking customers, might be affecting the ability of exposed people to distinguish between long term memory and fantasy?

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#154
In reply to #153

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 10:54 PM

As to your last question (not to belittle the fact that your excellent and balanced reply is worthy of an epic tome in its own right), I do suspect the persons in question tend to vote based more on inertia (momentum elsewhere) regardless. :-)))))))

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#140
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 12:31 PM

I never pee inside, and fortunately I live in an area where going outside is not a problem.

Watch out for stinging nettle.

You seem to have scared off English Rose.

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#141
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 1:49 PM

Oh, I'm sure that English Rose would have a high degree of appreciation for men that either sit down or go outside.

Most women just figure that men are slobs, so they don't bother complaining.

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#142
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 1:58 PM

Most women just want the seat put back down.

Unfortunately, at my house, with 6 and 8 year old boys, it's a land mine either way.

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#146
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 3:06 PM
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#157
In reply to #140

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 11:33 AM

Watch out for stinging nettle? Hell, that's only a problem when you pee lying face down, prostate, dick in the dirt. You know, the Army Way? :)

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#160
In reply to #126

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 10:05 PM

Do we need something to help the gentleman's aim?

As in the Amsterdam Airport??

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#161
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 10:13 PM

Waterfall pictures on the wall above also help.
When the fly refuses to move or die, you get pissed off.... which after all is sort of the objective.

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#162
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/06/2012 1:01 AM

How about for the misses?

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#163
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/06/2012 5:35 AM

I have had an ex-girlfriend and an ex-wife who could both "aim" as well as ANY man......practice makes perfect!!! The fly makes a great aiming spot!!!

Stopped them having to sit down in bad situations......

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#130
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 10:34 AM

A few years ago, the cast iron drain pipe crossing under our house had to be replaced because it started to rust through. It was probably the original 80 year old plumbing. To dispose of it, I broke it into pieces. It also had built up deposits allowing only a remaining one inch or so of diameter. That drain had no toilets, just the kitchen and laundry room. The deposits were dark reddish brown, not cream colored like the deposits in the toilet.

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#144
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 2:53 PM

The deposits can be of several colours, I mentioned that. Also, the pictures showed that too.

Do not forget that hard water areas can have such deposits even without the help of Urine. Even fresh water supply pipes can get such a deposit coloured as you mention....

Some good examples can be seen here:-

http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Inorganic_Chemistry/Descriptive_Chemistry/Main_Group_Elements/Case_Studies/Case_Study%3A_Hard_Water

.

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#133

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:17 AM

I think urinals should spiral inward, so that the stream initially hits an oblique surface that trends further away.

Patent 8,765,432.

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#134

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:26 AM

I can honestly say that this thread has gone into the crapper.

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#135
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:39 AM

Mais non! Le pissoir!

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#136
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:45 AM

The OP's urinal is outdoors.

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#137
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:50 AM

Le pissoir plein air! Il faut une peinture!

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#138
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 11:53 AM

à l'effet contraire. Il devrait être une comédie!

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#139
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/03/2012 12:08 PM

When I hear people talking like that they say "Pardon my French" afterward!

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#147
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 2:23 AM

Does French has some natural (hitherto unknown) relationship to busted poddies? :)

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#148
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 5:38 PM

Does French has some natural (hitherto unknown) relationship to busted poddies? :)

Did you mean potties? You're not from Australia, man, speak English American!

What I was eluding to is that when some people swear, they say "Pardon my French" (A tongue in cheek comment).

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#150
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 7:24 PM

I've always called them poddies, bogs, shitters. Pardon my Australian. Didn't know it was but I like it better already. :)

Remind me one day to inflict on you my French Military History in a Nutshell.

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#152
In reply to #150

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/04/2012 7:55 PM

'...French Military History in a Nutshell....'

.

hmmm I'm curious. Do tell.

.

Is it something like:

.

Considering going to war without the French? "...frankly, going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordion" Jed Babbin

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#158
In reply to #150

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 9:18 PM

It turns out that poddy lambs and calves are not unique to Australia as the first search led me to believe. You may inflict at will.

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#155
In reply to #148

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 7:20 AM

did you mean "alluding"?

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#159
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Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 9:21 PM

Uh, yes, (pardon my British), but have done eluding too.

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#156

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

11/05/2012 7:45 AM

Not one clog since I installed the new kit. However, the flapper has a tiny leak, so the toilet runs for a few seconds every hour.

While it flushes every time, it's still just a tad slow. I'm going to invest the few bucks and get the larger diameter flapper and tank diaphragm.

I'm guessing that most of these problem toilets are off the market, but it's nice to know that the parts are available to do a rework. I'll probably buy a couple of spare sets. It's only a matter of time until these too, are illegal. I'll just put them in the basement with my supply of 100W incandescents.

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#164

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

06/15/2020 1:32 AM

I bought a toilet by looking at this https://abouttoilets.com/toto-ultramax-ii-review/ blog. There are no problems. Especially with clogs. Never had a problem with an old toilet before, either. Maybe there's a problem with the operation. I can safely say that the toto ultramax 2 model is a great option. It doesn't have much water consumption (it's a water-saving type). It has a one-piece design, which is very convenient during cleaning.

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#165

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

06/15/2020 7:22 AM

Here is my take on this:

Consider a dual sink kitchen sink:

When both sinks have water in them,and you open the drain on one side,the water flows slowly.

When the opposite side is empty,and allowed to breathe,the sink drains quickly.

Look at the trap under the sink where the two drains connect.

One will be near the top of the neighboring sink to allow air into the system.

Now as this applies to the toilet:The bottle near the drain hole creates a cavitation that introduces air into the flush stream.This increases the velocity of the flow.

To prove this,remove the bottle,and place a long piece of 1/2 inch PVC into the drain hole when the flapper is up and the water is flowing.The flow will immediately increase.

Without external air in the flow stream,the water must push the air ahead of it,which creates back pressure.

Plumbers have a saying: "AIR OVER WATER",Hence the toilet plumbing vents on all main drain lines that exit through the roof.

Some flappers are designed to introduce cavitation,which add air, as the flow passes by.

The "up" position of the flapper when flushing is critical in this case.

Too high,it will take too long to settle back down,wasting water.

Too low,and it will not suck in any air.

Adjust this by the chain length.

A further illustration:

Take a small neck 1 gallon jug,fill it completely with water to the very top.

Put your hand over the end,and turn it upside down.

Now remove your hand.

The water will glug-glug-glug out as it sucks air back in to replace the water.

Tilt the bottle slightly to allow air in,and the flow will become fast and steady,or if there is a vent hole at the top,as in a gasoline can,open the vent.

Or,stick a soda straw into the bottle above the water line.

Now!Clear as mud?

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#166

Re: Poor Flushing American Standard Toilet

06/15/2020 8:55 AM

Maybe just maybe having the 2 liter bottle in the tank directs the water to exit faster resulting in a better flush? Not being a flush expert the better flush could be achieved by using some railway engineering. Only flush a solid and formed stool, explanation is when the engine leaves the station the caboose tends to follow!!!

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