Dealing with Ornery Neighbors

I'll see your rant and raise you a rebuttal!

"However in doing so he can not block or limit my access or dictate what I can or can not drive on this road nore expect or require me to pay for or contribute anything if I so choose not to."

And by the same measure and reasoning neither can you, right? So if he complains to the local constabularly about a muddy road making his travel difficult in his little ground scraper I would say he had a valid point.

But, I agree with you in this case. It's temporary and he should be a good neighbor about it. Maybe he could volunteer a little grader time? Does he like to play with big boy toys? I know I do!

We (ideally) solve this scenario where I live this way: All private roads are owned by an individual...not the city, state, etc. That individual gives perpetual easement (which conveys by law when properties are purchase) to the neighbors requiring access to their own property via the road, driveway, lane, whatever you want to call it. Although, the road must still meet emergency access standards for fire, rescue and police.

It is a sticky mess, literally and figuratively, isn't it?

'...So if he complains to the local constabularly about a muddy road....'

.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the neighbor will never complain to any local constabulary.

.

...this is taking place in North Dakota after all.

Kick that can down the road a ways......In other words tell him you plan to put in a new road after completion of your work there.....This moves the argument to some time in the future, if at all....anything can happen, the issue may resolve itself before that time comes....In any case you would be under no legal obligation to do anything, and perhaps you might decide to do just that.....when in doubt, punt....

Does he have e-mail?

I'd cut n paste this into an e-mail and send it to him with a notation that you believe you are both jointly entitled to use of the road.

You seem to have laid it out pretty clearly in your OP.

I've found that compromising and cooperation go a long way to keep neighbors neighborly.

Good luck.

I'm going with lyn on this one.

I live on a private dirt road along with three others. We have to maintain it ourselves. Without maintenance, here in Florida, there is no traversing by car (only pickup) during the rainy season.

About twice a year or so I put the box blade on the tractor and drag the road. The other neighbors lend a hand in raking the grass clumps out of the dirt (which screws up the blades effectiveness).

Couple of hours later we've got a good road, and we're all happy and drinking beer.

"About twice a year or so I put the box blade on the tractor and drag the road. The other neighbors lend a hand in raking the grass clumps out of the dirt (which screws up the blades effectiveness).

Couple of hours later we've got a good road, and we're all happy and drinking beer."

Same here! Since I started my place 14 years ago the road work has always been a group contribution. We have the larger equipment so I have no issue with doing the larger work. However that said if anyone does not like my work they have the full right to redo it with their equipment and labor.

He has the equipment and the time but as his comments yesterday highly suggested he apparently feels that the work and materials to meet his expectations should be handled and paid for by someone else namely me since he did his part some 20 - 25 years ago.

Personally I plan to treat most of this like one of my wifes many ranting fits. "Your opinion and comments are duly noted. I don't really care and have no plans to do anything about them at this time but perhaps some time in the future that may change so thank you for sharing." (Now go bugger off and find something purposeful to occupy yourself with.)

Love it !!

Good luck with that spicey girl TCM !!

"And by the same measure and reasoning neither can you, right? So if he complains to the local constabularly about a muddy road making his travel difficult in his little ground scraper I would say he had a valid point.

But, I agree with you in this case. It's temporary and he should be a good neighbor about it. Maybe he could volunteer a little grader time? Does he like to play with big boy toys? I know I do!"

Yes relating to that I do keep the road up and open at all times to the level of being fully navigable with my wifes car which is a rear wheel drive four door 1994 Mercury grand marquis with all season radial highway tires of which has less ground clearance than any of his vehicles which are mostly 4WD and AWD. Believe me with my wife she will pitch a fit over pretty much anything especially road conditions.

As far as emergency vehicle access our road is usually kept up to equal or better surface standards than most of our local county road which to be honest both of us over the years have had to clear the roughly 2 1/2 miles out to the nearest blacktop state highway on multiple occasion at our expense so that family or other neighbors could get in or out.

Yes he has the necessary big boy toys. Not as big or as many as ours but still a good loader tractor, a larger tractor he uses for the snowblower and a old pull behind road grader plus I have always given him full access and use of any of my equipment whenever he has ever needed it for no charge.

"Kick that can down the road a ways......In other words tell him you plan to put in a new road after completion of your work there.....This moves the argument to some time in the future, if at all....anything can happen, the issue may resolve itself before that time comes....In any case you would be under no legal obligation to do anything, and perhaps you might decide to do just that.....when in doubt, punt...."

Yes that is the other thing I do plan to haul in more gravel and do some needed road improvement later on this year. Right now the ground is still largely frozen has 10 - 20 inches of snow on most of it and I have no access to the gravel deposits on our property and I am not one to waste money and time paying for and hauling in what I can get for free.

Relating to that some years ago I hauled in around 100 yards of gravel for the main part of the road of which in the following 2 - 3 winters he blew most of it off with is snowblower. Since then I have not bothered to bring in more mostly due to that up until last year when we got the dozer and backhoe it was too much work to get to it and haul it just to see it disappear after the first few snowfalls.

Neighbors........

Having come from a farm, we do allot of field work, that require road travel and hauling manure quite extensively twice a year, if that is a public road, you do have to keep the road clean from debris, it doesn't matter what kind of spring it is, wet/dry, if you drop debris on a public road you are liable.

We live in the city and we have a neighbor, that blamed us for her basement flooding because we put in rain barrels? And wanted us to pay for the damages for her flooded basement......had nothing to do with the negative grade to her basement window by her downspouts.

I don't like to see anyone go through a flooded basement, no matter how big an arse they are, soooo, to try to keep the piece I even offered to help her husband correct it. She promptly counter offered that if I didn't pay she'll take it to an attorney.

The last drinking water sample we took didn't have any lead in it?... Said sarcastically

"Having come from a farm, we do allot of field work, that require road travel and hauling manure quite extensively twice a year, if that is a public road, you do have to keep the road clean from debris, it doesn't matter what kind of spring it is, wet/dry, if you drop debris on a public road you are liable."

Very familiar with that one being I have driven truck for beet farmers for a number of years. I do try and be reasonable and prudent about keeping the dirt and stuff that falls off the dozer tracks off the road but then the issue is I use the dozer to clean up after itself.

The area of largest fuss is less than 300 feet long, out of driveway that is roughly half a mile long, and sits in section that is below the grade of the land along with having trees and bushes in the ditch as well which has since the day I moved here has always been the first place to drift in the first place to turn to mush and the last place to thaw out and dry.

The rest of the road looks about the same even though it has seen minimal dozer traffic and even that was while the surface was well frozen. I really don't feel like I am to blame for much of any of this.

Be careful who you offend!

...LOL, ... I love it.

You go, TomTech!!! LOL

...For some reason, Green Acres & Mr. Haney comes to mind.

How far away is the nearest liquor store? Some liquid companionship might fix this.

Candy is dandy,
But liquor is quicker.
--Ogden Nash

(Different context probably.)

Tcmtech,

I am reminded of the old Burma-Shave sign message that read:

He is right, dead right

As he drove along

But he is just as dead

As if he were wrong.

So, rant and grumble as much as you want, but perhaps an approach to acknowledge his work and worries may result best. In reflective listening techniques, you don't have to agree with anything the other person says, but you try to make sure that you have understood what you are hearing (as you reflect back with words such as "If I understand you correctly you are saying..." using your own words to echo what you have heard). This is a mediation technique that delays the normal planning of your response while the other person is speaking. When the other person feels that they have been heard and understood, there is much less argument even if you both still disagree on the topic.

--JMM

And further to this reply, tcmtech, I think what the forum hears you saying is this:

Your neighbour has come over and ranted at you for leaving the road in a state which he doesn't think is good enough. You feel angry. You didn't intend to leave it that way, and you have maintained it for the past x years with no thankyou from him. The first time he thinks he has a grievance however, he is straight over yelling at you, whereas when he stupidly fires all the gravel into the field with his snowblower, you just shrugged.

Is there a sense of ..'if I had mentioned this to him at the time, maybe I wouldn't have this braying jackass in my face now'?

Also, you feel his rant is unjustified because it is your road more than his; you were there first, and you have land next to it, which he does not.

Most of all though, your post shows you are law abiding reasonable friendly courteous neighbour, and that's how you like to be treated. You feel angry that you have a neighbour who seems to believe you are the kind of person who would dig up someone else's road and leave it in a mess.

cnc jim

Actually the issue of my re graveling the road plus what regular seasonal upkeep I do including blading and snow removal has been brought up a number of times before by him. He however felt that the gravel I used was not up to his spec so therefor it didn't count and a lot of times even after I have cleared the snow or bladed the road he still goes out with his equipment and redoes it even if it really doesn't change or improve anything.

I don't push it and figure that if he wants to burn up his time, money and fuel to keep the road maintained above and beyond what I deem necessary to my daily and year round use that is his right to do so.

Now that said being that we now have our dozer and backhoe come first chance I have to get back into our private gravel deposits on our land I am planing to bring a few dozen truck loads in again, 100 - 150 cubic yards of stream run gravel, then this time I am going to work it right into the road base with our dozer followed by my vibratory road packer!

Suggest you print off you post and mail it to him.
Maybe tided up a little.
You could also add that you are happy to share your costs with him if he would like you to detail and cost the work you put in.

Del

Yesterday !! - is this the first complaint in 25 years?

And what brought it about? Is it damage to the road surface?

Who paid for the road in the first place, and who has paid for it's upkeep all these years. Your or your neighbour, or both?

Either way you should pay to have it reinstated to the condition before you damaged it. Unless the previous surface has proved to be unsuitable for your current traffic then a better surface will be required at your expense, or you keep paying for repairs.

If the road has been OK for 25 years and will be in future, and your neighbour simply wants it reinstated or upgraded to a better standard, then you both share the cost of the 'improvement' aspect for the 'shared' bit.

To my ind, it does not matter what the detail of the law is. A right-of-way exists for both of you and common sense says you share the cost of maintaining it by amicable agreement to a standard you both want.

If the complaint arose for some other reason and damage to 'his' road is the focal point then you need to find out why. Good neighbours are worth their weight in gold.

In fact in the UK, sales of property now include signed declarations by the vendor that there are no disputes with neighbours. All too often people have moved for no other reason than to get away from 'neighbours-from-hell'.

This has a serious affect on the selling price because prospective purchasers would be put off.

There is a world of difference in UK road law VS Midwest US state law. Here are a few link that show what our codes add up to.

North Dakota government assembly session Laws

Legal Implications to Closing or Reducing Maintenance on Low Volume Roads in North Dakota

North Dakota Township officers Association

Its a bit of reading but everything I am dealing with is well documented and clarified in these links.

As far as what he did in 20 -25 years ago well I have no legal tie to it no more than you have legal obligation to reimburse any previous landowners, neighbors, or people who may have done work on or around public roads near your property at their own expense before or during your present ownership. Basicly your neighbor may have right to pave your driveway and public roads bordering your property but you in return have zero obligation to have to pay him for it.

The way our system works is that once a township declares a road to be an abandoned, minimal or no maintenance road all further repair and upkeep work falls firstly to the discretion of the adjacent landowners who can do as much or no work at all depending on their need and use for the roadway and after that public users of the road are next in line to do what they feel necessary related to the roads upkeep or lack thereof.

Basicly the upkeep becomes public domain and no one is obligated to anyone else relating to whom does what or spends what on the roads maintenance.

Now that said I do keep the road up to a level year round that allows me to traverse it with nothing more than my stock 1994 Mercury grand marquis four door sedan with normal all season highway tires. As far as my neighbor goes if he wants to do anything above and beyond that he has every right to but I and the rest of the landowners and users of the road however have zero obligations to help or pay for that added work unless we willingly want to.

The underlying theme in the docs you list seem to set a basis for settlemnt by reaching agreement by having a duty of care to those affected by any decision. Basically this means you cannot make a unilateral decision solely in your favour and then thrust this on others, anymore than they can force their unilateral decisions on you.

Somewhere along the road you have to agree.

You seem to be in possession of all the facts necessary to make a decision.

You have to live with your conscience and the consequences of your action.

Personally I don't like hassle and bad feeling. I would try to find a workable and amicable solution.

If you thrive on adversity then do battle with him - theres a lot of mileage in this dispute.

Somewhere in this, I see an old adage....

Good Fences make Good Neighbors.

I had a chance to talk to my dad about this yesterday. As I understood it in his records they have it classified as a section line road of which has been in continual use since day one which means they can't ever abandon it.

However after the township got stuck with a rather expensive bill due to a bridge replacement issue back in the late 70's or early 80's in order to get out of being responsible for further upkeep and maintenance issues it was dropped to the lowest level of status being minimal or no maintenance.

By doing so it's still a Public domain road open to all forms of travel deemed necessary to daily and seasonal farm and or personal related activities but the maintenance of it however firstly falls to the discretions of the adjacent landowners followed by public users of the road of which whom neither have any formal or legal obligations to each other on who does or did what in the name of its upkeep over any period of time past or present.

Either way technically my neighbor can do as much or as little upkeep as he wants however he has no rights or say in who or what gets driven on this road or what is or has been done in the name of upkeep by other people past or present.

Now as far as who was here first well my dad has records showing the adjacent land to it has been in our family name for some years longer than my neighbor has ever lived here. In fact its been ours since before the people he bought the place from lived here too!

Your neighbor has set a precedent by saying that as he was there first, he therefore basically had a right to say his piece and do things his way.

Say to him that his precedent is a good idea and that you like it, thank him kindly for that and tell him how long you have been there, now its your turn to organize things etc..

I think it will shut him up completely......without any harsh words.

In a way that what I did the other day. Thats what started the less coherent meltdown on his part of which I just stood there and listened.

His first comments were "What should we do about this road?

I then replied "I don't know exactly at this point. What do you think we should do? I am open to suggestions!"

From there I got about 8 - 9 minutes of near continuous yelling rant ranging from what he did to the road while I was still in highschool, 20+ years ago, to emergency vehicle something or other to things I still don't quite follow or can make sense of let alone relate to anything that has to do with the road but it ended with the solution that I keep my dozer and equipment off his road.

To be honest I after the first minute of random fuss I took it that more than likely he was just stressed out and needed a way to vent. Which is still how I am treating this.

Beleive me in the last two years my wife has trained me well as to how busy body types don't take sitting still well and when they do they are highly prone to unjustified random meltdowns that are not the least bit relevant to what's actually bugging them.

You did the right thing. And with access to that kind of heavy equipment..........not really a problem.

But if this does degrade to the point you two are battling each other with dozers and loaders, it would make a great youtube video.

I think the category "civil engineering" is appropriate in more ways than one.

Well his belief that he was here first is wrong.

Technically public records will show that we were here first! This township road has been access to one side of our family land for some time longer than he or the previous people who he bought the place from ever lived here.

In some ways part of the sticking points of dealing with him is that he has a rather skewed sense of the passage of time. Time is moving a lot quicker than he either realizes or is willing to admit too.

On top of that up until the last few years he used to keep himself pretty well pickled when not at work which I think may have burned out a few too many brain cells he didn't have to spare to begin with. Over the last 14 years I have on numerous occasion had to pull him and his riding lawn mowers, tractor, and vehicles out of the ditch along our road due to drunken equipment operation.

So far the keep my mouth shut and listen strategy has worked pretty well for me. It always amazes me how self incapacitated some people are every day of their lives.

I have worked with drunks, pot heads, meth heads, tweekers and most every other form of self abusing way of life types of people. (Good lord I just named the habits of half the managers I have ever had.)

To me dealing with this sort of stuff is not new or hard. Just very frustrating at times. In many ways I have come to the necessity of feeling that I am best off to treat these types of people as being mentally, cognitively, and intellectually handicapped in the literal senses.

Far too often they have irrational thought and logic issues plus loads of limited short and long term memory irregularities, personality quirks/glitches and dangerously incorrect understandings of common social and technical concepts as well which for them makes dealing with concepts and issues that involve time lines or the need for higher functioning logic in many ways near impossible.

The sad part is most of these people when they keep themselves pickled, baked, or downright fried tend to be surprisingly good decent workers and all around easy to get along with. It only once they start drying out and reality starts to settle in that they become real a holes and worse to deal with.

Maybe you could smooth it over by getting a fifth of Jack Daniels, a bucket of ice and 2 glasses and invite him out to watch the sun go down and sip a little Jack. That would work for me. We'd be buddies for quite a while.

The problem is if I put a Beer fridge in the shop I would have far too many visitors and would never get anything done.

The beer fridge wouldn't be a problem for me so much. The last 6 pack I bought was because my wife need beer for one of her recipes and it took me three months to finish the other 5 cans.

I am in Florida and had a similar issue.

We bought a house that is at the end of a mile long dirt road. The road passes through seven private properties. The road has been in use for at least 80 years and is possibly part of the old stagecoach trail from Tampa to Jacksonville. Nobody has ever bothered to make it a legal easement. There is currently a legal("paper") easement that is a 1.3 mile imaginary straight line that runs through a wetlands on a state preserve. That paper easement makes it legal to get insurance, mortgages, permits, etc. but there is no way it could ever be used as a real road. (I tried to walk it but was unable to penetrate the swamp more than a hundred feet or so).

As long as there is a current legal easement, it is impossible to have the court declare a prescriptive easement on the actual road. (grandfathering based on historical usage)

When we were in the process of buying the property, one of the neighbors complained and tried to block the purchase. (His motive: He was trying to get his daughter to buy the house. He was actually seen removing for sale signs.) He claimed that all of the owners didn't like people "driving through our yards". We contacted the others and none of them had any problem with it, and most of them have since become good acquaintances.

The current owner of our property eventually got her lawyer to threaten to sue him for full value of the property if he didn't back off. He backed down and signed a contract that allows us access.

We crossed our fingers and went ahead with the sale.

In your case, I would study local surveys, records and laws to determine your true legal status. You might possibly need a lawyer who is familiar with property issues. We did and he told us that we could straighten this out legally but it would require cooperation of all the interested parties and lots of money.

There are also online forums where you can get legal advice specific to your locality. Different states and counties have different laws.

Well of course. Everyone has this problem don't they? My neighbor is still suffering after effects from the previous owner, who let an underground tank of gasoline, for his collection of street rods, rust until it managed to seep into this neighbor's basement. I have the same first name and when I moved here was into drag racing, so he immediately assumed I was the same as the previous owner.

First thing he did was call the township to have one of my drag cars removed from my property because it was not registered for road use. (it was parked very tightly to the back of my main garage and for him to see it, he actually had to step over his back property line)

Then, there is a tree right in the middle of the property line, so I thought I was doing the right thing to mow the whole way around it and not be so picky as to let him decide where the line really is. Well, he called in a surveyor, had a post erected on the back corner line, and then let me know I was mowing onto his land and to stay off it - but not in those words. I also got blamed for the grass on the side of his shed. (my mower has a blocking plate on the discharge for mulching the grass and can't eject sideways)

Lightning struck that tree about 5 years ago and blew it to pieces. We worked side by side to clean up the mess, and everything has been calm since then. However, I still am very careful to mow only on my side the line by waiting until he has mowed first and following his edge.

Maybe we should 'ban' trees on property lines......... I'll get washington right on it

I would just smile at him and keep on doing your part. Ignore him, is he really worth the time or effort? Thank him for doing his part 25 and fourscore years ago-now get out of the way or blend in with the gravel..................

I had a Mechanical Designer that used to work for me,

He was a sharp pos but he made me laugh ......... until his maintenance was more than his value.

He used to tell people, that disagreed with him, ..... ^{(including myself)}

"I'm Sorry, you must have mistaken me for someone who give cares what you have to say."

^{It was funny the first time, but eventually it gets old.}

Yes. We live in the City of Lubbock, Texas. Our western neighbor needed to rebuild his back fence after one of the blue northers that rolled in here from ?Dakota? ?Alaska?...anyway I even went to the trouble of tying up one section of the old fence for him (he is a veteran of the Battle of Iwo Jima that had fallen over. He hired Allstate fence company to come in and replace, and it appears the sub-contractor they put on the job was OK, except he piled up all the old fence against our back fence in the alley.

Then my wife saw this, and it was on. She told the neighbor about it, and he stated "well they always do that" with hands raised in air. She stated "the city will fine us for trash in alley ordinance." I think he replied with "so now you own the alley too?"

As you can see, otherwise pleasant, even admired neighbors can be annoying at times. By the way, after the national company was called by my wife, the old fence panels quickly and mysteriously disappeared.

Sounds like this is just a good oppurtunity to practice good people skills. Like I tell my guys as often as it will fit into a conversation, "problems don't get better with age or neglect and that has to do with relationships or mechanical issues." Communicate with him in a civil way. Stephen Covey says in Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, "seek first to understand, then to be understood." Listen to his comments, ask questions, look for solutions that both of you can live with. One other of the Habits is to make it a WIN - WIN situation for both of you.

It probably isn't any big deal, maybe he's having a bad day or something. "Hurting people hurt people".

I think he was having a bad day, since his wife passed away about a month ago. He really is normally a great guy.

He may be partly right. The mushy spot in the road may have been caused by your equipment vibration and pressure. This causes previously locked sediments to become mobile under the right water conditions (liquification) where car traffic would not have been enough to do it.

You may be able to get some cost relief if you can beg for crushed asphalt to help things out. Other newly private road owners in your area might need some of this too. The road department may know of contractors that need to get rid of some out of spec grindings from a road project which would be a fix and an upgrade from the dirt.

Here is where I may disagree. Does your property permit your own access to the public road, or are you considered "landlocked" and have to use his driveway? If you do have direct access from your property to the public road, then it is up to you to provide your own private access. If the neighbor gave you the right in an easement to use his road, then he can't say anything as long as you help maintain the driveway and repair any damage you caused.

I don;'t think it matters, you have statue of limitations, or even swatters rights. A lot of time past, I think this is between tcmtech and his neighbor.

Thats "Squatters Rights", unless there are a lot of flys.....

Squatter?

Swatting might make him more unfriendly than he is....

As a Construction foreman, we have had a lot of projects that abutted neighbors,either friendly or not. Many times they were confrontational , and the client never informed them of the new project , knowing there would be a verbal dogfight that might lead to something that would postpone the project. I often would be brought unknowingly , and or unwantedly into the fray. My first, and always the FIRST action was to put EVERYTHING IN WRITING. No verbal jabs, or the like. Something like : I see that we both seem to be working off of different data, and that we may be having an upset due to this. Could you please put all of your known DATA, Documents, known Codes, Easement information, etc, in writing for me so that I may review them and compare them with MY documents etc., This will also give me a chance to go down to the City, County, or whatever, to research so that we may find a LEGAL solution that we can both agree upon. We can then abide by that and solve the problem.. This will separate "Feelings and opinions" from fact. IT is absolutely necessary to keep the Objective apart from the subjective. Yapping back and forth does little other than to reinforce bad feelings, and both sides will then entrench themselves further. There also times that WE were wrong, and the Architect or Engineer missed something. NEver know. Worse comes to worse, hire a Mediation attorney, agreeable to both of you, get an Opinion that you both agree upon, and be done with it. Life is too short.

Sorry you're having the problem with your neighbor.

I've been there more than once and I did not like it at all.

The best solution I have come up with and it works most of the time is to give the issues a rest, wait until everyone has time to calm down, and then go talk to the person. Don't wait too long as it can make things worse. (1-2 days max.)

It may be hard for you to do, but I have always had good success when starting the conversatiion off with; " I appreciate you as a neighbor and I am sorry about what happened. I want to do everything possible to solve the problem we're having. Will you please set down and talk to me about this?"

Usually this breaks the ice and opens the door.

I would ask him what is bothering him and ask him to please tell you everything without holding back as the root cause is usually just a bunch of little, stupid oversites and/or things that build up until eventually something or some event in the person's personal life triggers the outburst.

I would listen well, put yourself in the other person's shoes, think fast, and speak/respond slowly while choosing my words carefully.

I would avoid saying anything like; "The law states this." or "I have the right to" or "I've/my family was here first." etc as this type of statements usually aggrivate the situation.

I would express/voice your side in a disarming and/or questioning way such as; "You know my family has been farming this land since 1978 (Date) and we sure don't want any problems with our neighbors. What can I do to make this right with you?"

Or maybe: "Ralph (Name) I want to be a good neighbor and someone you can count on. What will it take for me to fix the problem?"

An old Chinese proverb states: "One word spoken in anger yields a lifetime of regret."

I have come to know for a fact that this is indeed painfully true.

I am very certain given the political atmosphere as well as the complete disconnect with reality and common sense by so many people in our great country that the time will soon come that our relationship with our neighbor(s) will be the only thing keeping us alive.

Case & Point:

1. In New York City no common citizen can have in their possession nor in their home a weapon (Firearm, knife, sword, explosive, ?)

2. Indeed only law enforcement, military personnel, and special agents of the US government are allowed.

3. Despite their harsh laws pertaining to and the harsh civil penalties for failure to follow these strict weapon laws, the armed and violent crime against citizens in that city is proliferating and is in the top 5% worst case environment.

4. The only thing the anti-weapon laws did was disarm the honest citizens of New York who were not a threat and made it easier for the criminals to rob, plunder, and murder the unprotected.

5. If it were not for good neighbors sticking together and taking care of each other there wouldn't be any good people left in that city in a very short time.

Knowing this and what is coming soon, I cannot stress how important it is that you solve this problem with your neighbor and win his (their) respect.

Good luck and God bless. Jim

I'm sorry, but you may be wrong. I was born and raised in New York City, lived there 25 years before moving to another state in 1959. During the time I lived there, we could (did) own rifles and shotguns. I even had a Samurai sword. They were legal at the time. I haven't been back to NY since so if they changed the firearms laws, I'm not aware of it. I know HANDGUNS were banned under the Sullivan law.

You are correct, the Sullivan laws still ban handguns (there is a mandatory 2 year jail term for possession) but other firearms are allowed as long as you have registered them (for a 231.50 fee).

Hey now don't be ruining perfectly good thread by encouraging conspiracy theory and doom and gloom scenario conjecture here!

I have to agree. Maybe he was having a bad day. You could argue this thing back and forth for years and never be satisfied. Better to wait until you see him again and try to smooth things over. Its worth a try. If he gets upset, change the subject. Sometimes perfectly normal people will have a mental block that prevents them from understanding the truth. No point in pushing it, I mean he is not going to close the road so why not just let him vent a little and go on about your business. Now I know there are engineers out there who would view this as an "unsolved problem" and try to dwell on it until a solution can be found, but there are no buttons on your calculator that configure the "human factor" so you cant always have a formula to solve every problem. As long as he does not escalate the situation, get over it. Im sure you have more important things to do.

why dont you talk agree with your neighbour

if hes not willing to ... don't worry yourself sick because of - hire a competent lawyer - you get your stuff done

Well the last few mornings he has been going past the house pretty early so I am guessing he is back to work now.

I have been continuing to keep moving mush and snow off the road and dig ice out of the ditch with my backhoe tractor and so far no complaints even though it tears up the road as much or more than the dozer does.

THis is bizarre, in a way. When I lived in the country, we alway made sure we were on the good side of a neighbor that possessed a backhoe, and dozer, because that meant WE DIDN"T have to own and maintain one, and we got to barter for all our of grading, digging, and filling needs. Back then, that good neighbor got a lot of fish, fruit and veggies, , beef from one of our neighbors, and his car was maintained pretty good too. Even got his house painted. Sad to see that things have changed.. Life can be fun and simple, if just left alone sometimes, with a smile , and often , a turned cheek..

As the equipment owner and operator that's how I have always like this game to be played!

I may not be the worlds best or fastest equipment operator ( am pretty good though) but you won't find find a nicer person who will work cheaper!

I too have found his general attitudes about this sort of stuff odd as well. He complains about everything whereas the other neighbors grossly overpay me for little things now and then and in return I am always there for them no matter what they need.

One paid me $100 for what was about 10 minutes of tractor snowblower work a few weeks ago even after I declined payment for it upfront. Granted I know full well that for them the job would have been at least one very long day of shoveling and garden tractor snow removal work but still now as far as I am concerned I owe them about $95 worth of helping out for the rest of the summer.

I'll let you know when a home comes on the market down the street, as you would be welcomed as a neighbor!!

Oh sure I am everyones friend when they need a tree stump dug out or rock moved or a sewer system dug up or a nearly dead body buried really deep.

BTW if you put the dead body under the tree stump and rock and that under the sewer system the search dogs don't seem to be able to find it!

But you didn't hear that from me!

'a nearly dead body buried really deep'

.

A few years back in the Keys, I saw an older Hearse being used as someones private vehicle, with the best bumper sticker I have ever seen. It read:

.

" Friends Help You Move.

Real Friends Help You Move Bodies."

Well, if the traveled-way in question is not a dedicated right-of-way, then you presumeably own the land out to the centerline of said unimproved road, and you could drive pretty much anything the township would allow on your half of it.

When your project is completed you should try to be neighborly about it all and do one complete maintenance effort over both sides, with an apology for any noise that might have discomforted your neighbor. In any case, take lots of date-stamped photos of the entire proceedings...

It would also be neighborly of you to clear the snow off the travelled-way, being carefull to direct all snow thusly cleared on to only your side of the centerline. And take lots of date-stamped pictures of that process, as well...

If your neighbor still objects after all that, then don't clear his sides' snow next year...

I too have an on-going problem with an ornery neighbor. Mine is a property line. From painful experience I've found that my neighbor is quite selfish and does not think logically (like an engineer) - which was my original mistake in dealing with him. So I've researched and verified the legal aspects (like you have), I try not to aggravate him, and I send him on his way when he acts up. Essentially I quit cooperating with him, but he has earned that treatment.

I own lots on two sides of his lots (back and one side). I was here several years before him. Apparently he was misinformed about his property boundaries when he bought in, and later when he cleared his property he also cleared (encroached) onto me in an odd pattern that ranges from six feet to fifty feet. My first mistake was not really caring (and not raising heck - trying to be a good neighbor), which encouraged him to claim ownership. After he yelled at me for "mowing on his yard", we agreed that I would pay for a formal survey to mark the lines and we would both abide by that survey. But he didn't like what the survey produced, so after a few years he pretended it never occurred. Although he planted trees to mark those lines, he claimed that "somebody" had not planted them in the right place. Then he became more irrational, claiming that since I and the surveyor are both white (he is black) that we had conspired to "keep the black man down". He also tried to con me out of my property, and even went to the Deeds office and yelled at them when they disagreed with him (spent the afternoon in the clink for that, but he blames me for that too even though I wasn't even there). So I invited him to commission another survey with the stipulation that his surveyor was licensed. That surveyor marked the same line (of course) despite my neighbor trying to get him to mark it where he wanted it. So now after two surveys and the trip to the Deeds office he's proven wrong, but experience tells me that it's only a matter of time before he "forgets" all of that and starts yelling again.

The man has too many issues to deal with rationally. I avoid confronting him since you can't win against an irrational mind - but I still work in my yard as I want and I undo things he does in my yard. Slowly my low-key push-back is winning the war. I hope your neighbor is not as irrational as mine, but if he is then don't assume that rational action will solve anything. I'm not saying do anything illegal, but stick to your guns and politely but firmly demonstrate that you are sticking to your rights. Good neighboring requires effort from both sides, but if one side refuses then he needs to be disciplined within the law.

Ferd--Do a little research about the "Pigford Settlement"--That may give you an idea of wherre some of this attitude comes from..

Another comment. We lived in our last house for 15 years, and had one neighbor south of us. The North corner of their property fell about 1/2 way into the middle of the long side of our property. One main reason we purchased the property was that a school boundary line ran through the middle of our living room (on paper of course), but formed the OUTSIDE line of the property to the South. (Do I still have you all?) This put us IN the School District, but excluded them. This school was ranked 2nd in the State, in API test scores, and had a great Science Dept of which our Daughter took full advantage. Our new neighbors , with three kids, bought the house to the south, with that school in mind, and did not do their homework, or were hoodwinked by a hungry Realtor. After our initial meeting with our new neighbors, when the Mother (A OB/GYN, none the less), asked where our daughter went to school. We replied and she went ballistic. She mentioned that she thought they were in the GOOD School District, and starting yelling at ME (Huh??). She kept yelling over and over.." Just one F****** line, and we're screwed"..... Now they had Private school tuition to deal with--$20k/ year per kid, for 3 kids, for 6 years- THEN College..-Ouch!!! Just one little line...

I am sure the Title company was called into the fray, and I suggest you contact yours to see if they can assist you with a little paperwork.