Foot Pump Conundrum

at what volume?

There is a trade off, higher the pressure, lower the volume.

The unit will hold 5 gallons of water. The volume I am looking for would be released, at a rate similiar to a gardening hose.

Get a 5 gallon bucket, hose and stop watch.

See how long it takes to fill the bucket from the hose, on full.

Typical residential water pressure is around 40 PSI.

Now, imagine reversing that process. You will see that 5 gallons won't last long.

You can't do this with a foot pump.

Or, for every foot of elevation in a water column the pressure rises 2.3 PSI. You can see that it would take a water column 20 feet tall to get 40 PSI.

What am I missing, why is a foot pump not capable of this? Is there any other mechanism that would be capable of this that is not powered by electricity, battery or fulel?

People don't have a big enough foot. I'm a size 11-1/2 myself.

To gain mechanical advantage, the compromise is you lose distance.

As Archimedes said something to the effect….. Give me a lever long enough and I'll move mountains…..

Actually, it depends on the stamina of the person attached to the foot.

Water pressure is .433 Psi per foot of height.40 Psi would require lifting the water 92.37875289 feet,(approximately).

Average flow from a garden hose is around 5 GPM.Water weighs 8.345(approx) pounds per gallon. so 5X8.345 = 41 pounds per minute to a height of 92 feet (approximately).

I will not go into calculating horsepower required,but it is obvious that you would need a lot of stamina to sustain the flow you desire.

You can break this down using hydraulic principles of area vs volume per stroke,but you can't cheat the total power required.

Perhaps Lance Armstrong is available?

<...not go into calculating horsepower required...>

Ignoring losses, the low end of those pressures is a dribble over 100W, so a human could do it continuously, in principle.

I think there may have to be a compromise, try here or here. There are other sites, MSCdirect.com and Grainger.com they may have some date specs. But you may have to modify something.

Thank You Phoenix, for your honesty and some new avenues to look into. Your the best! I will come looking for you when I get this product going.

I see your problem.

Your question is unclear. Pressure is but one part. Flow is another.

And, "release between 40- 100psi of water" is a meaningless phrase.

How much water, at what pressure, etc. etc.

40 PSI at one quart a minute is much different than 40 PSI at 20 gallons a minute.

Tell us what you want to accomplish, forget psi for now.

Okay, I see what you mean. I am looking for the flow of water to resemble that of a garden hose. Is that what you are asking?

So, why not just use a garden hose, and forget about the foot pump?

The power needed from the driver of a pump is pressure rise multiplied by volumetric flowrate, plus all the losses. Don't expect to get more than 100W out of a human continuously.

This is for a portable rinsing unit, one that can be used the same way as a garden hose but, used during the seasons when your garden hose is shut down for the season, or you don't have access to a gartden hose.

Like a washing up bowl?

...or one of these?

There really is insufficient information so far to be able to home-in on a solution.

Or this

btw.... they're both air pumps and little squirt at that.......

Thanks Phoenix, I will look into every avenue you just provided.

The pump has to be hands- free.

It's still no more than 100W continuous rating, though. All shapes and sizes...

...or these?

No manually or pedally operated pump will give a constant flow or pressure. Well maybe a cunning rotary one... but I see the cost going up...
+1 for the washing up bowl
Del
(I'd just lick it all cleam m'self)

Solutions similar to what you are describing already exist.

Do these potentially meet your needs?

No, that doe not meet the specs. It does not release enough pressure.

Pressure is always released at the nozzle, so that statement doesn't make any sense here.

not the volume though.

but nice lead

Hang your 5 gallon container in a tree with a rope. Remember what I said about elevation?

But to get 40 psi, that would be over 92 ft of head, that a tall tree for the bucket would have to hang over 92 feet up

It's for rinsing, not stripping paint.

Oh, yes. Hands-free, the flowrate of a garden hose, and plenty of pressure:

Lol, I wish it were that easy Lyn. This unit is a portable rinsing unit to rinse your pets off during the seasons when your garden hose is turned off, or when you don't have access to a garden hose. The months that your dogs get the dirtiest are the months that your hose is turned off. The unit has to be convenient and compact, not overly priced. The cheapest way I thought to offer this is with a foot pump. I may need to look at some other alternatives.

So why is 92ft of head needed to wash a pet? Not even giraffes are that tall!

Use a bucket and a sponge!

Okay,

.

.

.

Now imagine this as a waterproof tough reverse-dry-suit instead of a wetsuit.

.

The dog-suit would seal everywhere except leaving the dog's head free, and providing gentle contact over a large area on the neck. There would be at least one hose connection at the top and a quick drain at each foot.

.

Put the dog in the bath-suit.

Add a little shampoo.

Attach the hose and fill up the suit.

Remove the hose and close the port.

Play fetch, walk, or otherwise engage the dog in some activity.

Drain. Refresh the water to rinse. Play again.

Repeat as needed....

.

.

The deluxe model could come with a fan attachment to dry the dog.

.

.

I know some dogs are not going to play fetch or anything else with this on...but even if they don't get clean, the laughs will be worth the cost of the DogBathSuit.

I was at a car wash about 5 years ago........ I cant recall where it was....... but in the corner it also had a pet wash....... I never saw that before.

Surely there's one in the KrisDel™ catalogue?

I heard there's a recall on that........ KrisDel™ had repackaged it, it was originally used for a Schrödinger's Cat thought experiment.

Garden hoses are usually "seasonally" turned off to prevent freezing water from damaging them and their fittings, and the valves of the supply do not like being frozen either. how do you propose to store the water so that freezing does not destroy your product ? water is heavy, so your product will not be very portable, and unless you include a tank heater the dogs will not love you for dousing them in cold water when the air temp is +2.

So where is your water source? A pond nearby?Teach your dog to retrieve.Then throw a stick into the water and have him go get it.

That's what I do, and the dog loves it,but he hates a bath.

It doesn't matter if the pond is partially frozen he will go after anything moving on the water.(Labs love water).

The flip side is I can't fish with him around, he keeps bringing back my cork.

I have tried throwing a stick the other way when I cast out, creating a temporary distraction, but he brings it back,lays it at my feet, and watches the water intently.If the cork moves, he brings it back.

He is also the master of the silent but deadly Recon Flatulent Bomb,(RFB),especially when he lying just outside,on the upwind side of the tent, but that is another story.

If you need a sustained pressure, you will need a pressure tank. The size of the pressure tank will determine how long the flow at a given pressure will last. The concept here is that the foot pump will put its small volume-per-press into the reservoir and when the volume is required the tank will supply it rather than the pump itself. This delivers a relatively stable but gradually decreasing pressure and volume. You will do a lot of pressing for the pump to adequately fill the reservoir, but after that you will have a pressure and volume to deliver, until the reservoir drops to below your minimum pressure. The time it takes the pressure to drop will depend on 1 ) how large the reservoir is 2) how much volume is required per second. The pump will take a lot longer to put the water into the reservoir than your application will take out of it so the " duty cycle " of the apparatus will likely be small.

Have fun !

BTW, Kelli

Welcome to CR4........ where opinions and comments are free..... ^{if we can only stay focused long enough.}

Lol, thanks Phoenix, I take it with a grain of salt. Except for the ones that actually have meaning to the proposal. For all you "nay" talkers.... The product line will be called "Rinsing Rover". Look for it in the near future at your local Pet Smart and Wal- Marts.

An interesting conundrum...until the use defined...might work for small, short haired dogs...maybe a Chihuahua, but most of them wear boots and a jacket when it's cold.

As the owner of a long haired standard poodle, the amount of water to 'rinse' would be prohibitive. Much simpler to vacuum the back porch. I'm sure someone will offer to build/market or patent it for you if you have (enough) money to invest...be careful.

Yes, welcome. Just be prepared for some posts to become hogwash (pun intended).

Yellow Pages?

How about an inclined treadmill powering the pump?Then you could put your dog on the treadmill and let him rinse himself?

Dog too small? Put him in the bathtub.

You don't need anywhere near that much pressure to wash a dog.....what you are concerned with is volume(GPH) flow.....and a reasonable GPH can be from a portable power supply easily....Here's a portable dog wash, there are many....

There is no power supply, no electricity, no fuel, no battery. It must operate solely with the function of a pump. That is what differentiates what is already available on the market, and will make it more convenient.

you may need a capacitor tank that you would have to prime. similar to the one t....c. posted for weed killing (21).

Well the most high volume with the least effort pump I've used, is a hand powered bilge pump.....This would be capable of supplying the volume of water you need....To be honest I've never seen a foot powered one, but it would be easy enough to configure....and cheap.....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/24-Inch-Long-Hand-Operated-Bilge-Pump-for-Boats-Self-Priming-Up-to-8-GPM-/130630893736

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EpuF5s11nE

Are you capable of configuring one?? I would pay you for all your time and materials.

Found one....

http://www.online-pumpshop.com/xcart/catalog/Foot-Pump-p-381.html

ps: I would cost a fortune....

Thank You, my dear. I appreciate all your time and efforts. I will do my research with this pump. However, if this doesn't pan out, I would still be interested in paying you for your ingenuity and time to try and modify something to the spec that I need. I will be in Fort Myers, FL, in mid November. I see you are from the Florida area, would love to follow up with you. Don't mean to sound creepy, would just enjoy any professional advice you may have to offer.

Shoot me an e-mail via this forum ahead of time, and we can work out the details...I'm on the East coast, in the Melbourne area...I'm always willing to meet with someone who wants to shower me with money,,,,as long as it doesn't interfere with my beachcombing duties....

Bilge pump in action....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B74DHvcsXts

The old fire pumpers that were used back in the 1800's could deliver the pressure and volume, but it used 4 strong men to run the pump. Put that into perspective using foot power.

The output of a foot pump would be pulsating rather than steady, but maybe you can find a foot-powered air pump that would pressurize a water canister, which would even things out.

(This may have already been suggested, but I skimmed quickly through the thread.)

How about a pressure tank like a well tank that you add air pressure to, then use it till the pressure drops and then add more air

Kelli Stewart- Even my size 15's and 230 lbs isn't going to help you for a hand pump with the capacity of 100psi and 5 gpm!

Quoting prices from McMaster-Carr-

The only pumps that are going to help you are: a gear pump/motor with a 1/2hp electric motor for $512.14 (4.4 gpm @ 100psi); an extreme-head compact bronze turbine-style centrifugal pump with a 1-1/2 hp electric motor for $997.40 (5.6gpm @ 100 psi) . Some air powered double diaphragm pumps could do it but the pump and the power source would be way out of your price range.

I don't have the exact figures handy for the hp rating for humans but I doubt that anyone can do 1/2hp consistently. Not even a person on a bicycle could do that consistently.

Back to the drawing board or reduce your output requirements.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Kelli Steward-

If you don't need the performance you are asking for, use a forest fire indian tank

Good Luck, Old Salt

Keith Stewart-

Am I missing something? Has the 40-100psi requirement been tossed out the window? If so, the only limit is your, or someone else's, imagination. There are lots of pumps out there that can achieve 5 gpm but not with the 40-100psi requirement .

Good Luck, Old Salt

Old Salt,

Is it possible to get your personal email, to ask you some questions. The answers are all over the board and I am not sure what I should/ should not believe???

KelliStewart-

No problem. The easiest and somewhat secure way to do it is to click on my name at the upper left corner of a posting of mine, i.e. at the "Old Salt" in the upper left above the avatar, join date and other stuff. This will take you to my user-profile information page. At the top of that it says "Check Your Mail". Click on it and it takes you to a "Mail" page. In the upper left there is "write new message" highlighted. Click on it. This takes you to a new message page which is similar to this type of message. Much easier to do than to follow these instructions. If I have made a mistake it's because I checked by composing a partial letter to myself. As I said, it's simpler than the instructions. Most anyone who can turn a computer on can do this.

By "click" I mean push the left mouse key. Old simple term for a relatively new, at least compared to me, devise.

Contact me this way and I will help in any way possible.

CR4 does not allow private e-mail addresses to be posted in messages. Also I get enough spam already and I don't want any more from every grocery store and adult book store on the earth.

Good Luck, Old Salt

you don't need a foot pedal, just a reservoir to hold air, the air will displace the water

r

Get rid of the dog, or you can skin it and use its hide as a wine skin and enjoy life without needing to wash a damn dog!

I don't want to be a spoil-sport but I think this meets all the requirements:

The OP is thinking about the genus Canis and not the genus Cornus.

Although your solution would work well for whichever genus you happen to be referring, the OP seems to believe that those in the genus Canis require power washing/watering.

Obviously, but sometimes "underkill" is better than "overkill"; gets the dog wet, gets the dog rinsed, plus no batteries required.

I completely agree.

.

Maybe the OP thinks if the pressure is strong enough that the dog yelps/whines, then he'll be able to claim it gets dogs 'squeaky clean'?

.

^{(I don't think the preceding qualifies, technically, so I'm not worried about being sentenced to any time in the punitentiary.)}

for a spray as a pet washers 40 - 100 psi seems extremely high.....

I agree.

.

I suspect most dogs aren't any more fond of being forcefully sprayed that most people are:

.

.

.

.

...well, there are some exceptions:

I'm pretty sure, even if they turn around, Spot will stay on stay on the side that keeps them between him and the hose....

...

...fearful of payback for all those years of peeing on hydrants.