Hot vs. Cold

You mean like the opposite of a microwave oven? It's not really possible (or at least it hasn't been done yet). Microwaves heat by emitting a frequency near the resonance of the water molecule, which in turn causes the molecules to move rapidly. This increases the thermal radiation and in doing so causes the item to heat up. A "freezowave" would need to retard vibrational amplitude and frequency, which would slow down the motion of the molecule and thus cause it to cool. I suppose you could come at the molecule from different sides - using multiple emitters to do this - in theory - but no one's done it yet.

Laser beams are used to cool clouds of atoms to achieve micro kelvin temperatures.

I was thinking the same thing... that's about as close to "cooling radiation" as I could get, which isn't really all that close considering how precisely the lasers have to be used to "cool" things.

Now it's nano Kelvin temperatures.

But I'm just waiting for the duck to come down and give $100.00

I have such a device!

It's in my anti-gravity machine, along with my torch which shines a beam of 'dark'.

Unfortunately I forgot to park the machine under a bridge and it's shot off!

ITS also invisible

so he cannot find it

Where the hell did you get that avatar?!

I gave him one of my spares.

"It's in my anti-gravity machine, along with my torch which shines a beam of 'dark'."

torch aka a FLASHDARK !

Where did you get yours? I want one of those too.

I found it...in a dark corner somewhere.

"Where did you get yours? I want one of those too."

Easy...just take the batteries out of any flashlight and turn it on....Flashdark

"my torch which shines a beam of 'dark'."

Del-

As we all know, light bulbs work by sucking all the dark out of a room. Perhaps they can be modified to suck heat, as well!

Bill Morrow

Actually there is. Take any hot item, set it on the table and it will radiate away its heat energy.

Study the subject called Thermodynamics.

Imagine there are two adjoining rooms, connected with a door.

One room is lit, the other is dark.

When you open the door, the dark room will lighten, but the light room will not be darkened.

Why?

Darkness is not an entity by it's own merit.

It's only the absence of light.

A clue perhaps?

Absence makes the light grow fonder.

There's a simple reason why freeze rays as seen in science-fiction movies don't exist: heat, like water, always travel from a higher to a lower level. A hot object cools down because it loses heat to the surroundings, and a cold object warms up because it absorbs heat energy.

Theoretically, a freeze ray is possible: you need to know what frequency the molecules you are trying to freeze are oscillating at. You then need to tune the beam to a frequency as close as possible to the oscillating frequency as possible, but out of phase by 180 degrees. Theoretically, this will cancel out the oscillation, cooling the object down. In reality, no one has yet figured out how to do this, and it may also prove to be impractical to do so.

Beautiful.

Although it would have to resonate on such low frequency and momentum....

Nevertheless, the idea is captivating, and will probably taken into account by some sci-fi writers.

Ronald Reagan is working on it with Elvis right now in their secret underground bunker.

It sounds like you are assuming all the molecules are vibrating in phase to start with. Unless I'm highly mistaken, in any ordinary object the molecules vibrate in random directions with frequencies distributed over a bell-shaped curve. It seems like any wave that would be out of phase with some molecules would be in phase with others.

I have heard of using laser beams to cool under certain circumstances, But I really don't understand how that works. Perhaps someone will elaborate on that...

Any form of heat-transfer needs an active source of energy. Ever heard of open-flame refrigerators?

careful showing your age

54

werent they around with the Dinosaurs

my Dad told me they worked pretty well

I have also seen a Compressed air Freezer

Maybe you can make a compressed air Freeze ray

Ha!

I think you've got closest!

Something based on a CO2 fire extinguisher, maybe that's as close as we can get.

A high pressure jet of liquid Nitrogen would certainly be a nice freezer 'Ray'.

But yes folks I know it isn't 'RADIATION'

Vortex Tube

Indeed...!

I'm surpised someone didn't mention this swirlier

I think it's been about that long (50 years or so) since I last saw an open flame (gas) refrigerator, but yes, I have seen some. In fact there was a time when I understood the process well enough to explain it to some of my students in physics, but I'm afraid its been so long that I no longer remember the details. Talk about showing my age! (almost 67)

I would like to understand how lasers can cool...

Press here

Thanks - I never thought of the Doppler effect on individual atoms!

Dick

It even works with electrons - According to de Broglie

First, I think that the spectrum of vibrating atoms of an object don't make a bell curve, they make a curve that is described by Plank's black-body radiation.

Second, atoms are cooled down by femto-second pulses of laser light of the proper frequency and direction, illuminating a cloud of atoms in a very, highly controlled container. Essentially all motion (temperature) is cancelled.

There are a lot of articles on this out there now, because these experimenters were able to create the predicted Bose-Einstein condensate.

On the other hand, a constant stream of liquid nitrogen would make a very affective cold ray.

Also read the post above about cooling atoms to nano degrees kelvin with lasers. The hard part is to get the bad-guy to stand still.

Just remember everyone your so called "THERMODYNAMICS" is only a theory. Another equally valid theory proposes an Intelligent Warmer who decides what things need to gain or lose heat and then makes it happens when you aren't looking. Jeff

Just remember everyone, your so called "REALITY" is only a notion. Another equally valid notion proposes that it really is a dream of the deities playing with your senses, when you're not coherent enough.

"I dreamt of a butterfuly... But was I a vermin dreaming I was a butterfly or was I a butterfly dreaming I was a vermin?"

I dreamt I was duct tape and I worked in space for longer than I wished. I was so hot I always seemed to be traveling towards the cold. The cold never came to me because a lessor metal always took the brunt. What the ...

I think you better come to my clinic as soon as possible... Address and pay schedule to follow.

Humor is a bit like heat. A good joke will never be replaced by a bad one. Equilibrium is the state of things once all is over. Nothing travels anymore because every thing is in its right place. Don't need address just send pay schedule. I'll use duct tape to put it were all the others are. I still have a lot of space left. If funds come in, and only then, I will allow pay schedules to lesson my increased temperature which was caused by friction. Thanks for the offer though.

^{By the way, it's really true! Duct tape doesn't work in space! But, shhhhhh! It's a little known secret.}

Help me understand why duct tape doesn't work in space?

http://www.ducttapeguys.com/NASA/index.html

I'm not picking, just inquisitive and want to understand...

You could start here. I will wait until vermin returns from orboit as well. His touch downs can be sporadic yet spectacular.

Good article, but it still doesn't explain why duct tape does not work in space. I would think these factors play a role, however:

STRENGTH - Kapton is made from polyimide, which, as the tire commercials used to say, is "pound for pound stronger than steel". The duct tape I have used appeared to have been made from cotton fabric.

CRYOGENIC PROPERTIES - From the manufacturer's web site: "Kapton® has a unique combination of electrical, thermal, chemical and mechanical properties and retains these properties over a wide range of industrial environments and applications." Duct tape probably becomes too stiff and brittle in the cold of space to be applied without breaking.

Bill Morrow

I believe the statement should be "Duct tape does not work in vacuum.", because the sticky materials are volatile and evaporate (in addition to the problems with heat and extreme cold). It clearly does work in (pressurized) space, or they would no longer have it aboard the Shuttle.

There is also a different factor: radiation.

Just try to duct something inside the reactor building of a nuclear power station. They throw you out by the highest exit.

The radiation frees the halogens in the glue, these halogens react with the materials and cause corrosion.

In space the radiation level is also high. Inside the living areas of the space station and the shuttle the level is acceptable for humans.

Gwen-

Great contribution. I work in nuclear plants regularly and never heard that before.

Bill Morrow

Do you work in the "zone"?

When I had to be in and needed a piece of tape, I got it from them. It was disgusting how expensive it was, just to close your pockets when working above the reactor bassin.

Gwen

' Do you work in the "zone"? '

No. I just provide support during outages. One of my many hats is Asbestos Analyst. Some of our plants are over 30 yeard old and maintenance during outages involves possible asbestos-containing materials.

Bill Morrow

Me and my kind swim in the zone!!! Ha! More for us!

Now go away, and let pile roar!

PS: Please leave lead towels.

This may explain why you are frequently moderated out of existence. Your hyperactivity will be controlled. Otherwise you get to some weird country.

In space, your duct tape doesn't work...

So get some Gecko tape. OK , I just noticed a new thread about this .

Well, that's what they tell them.

Well, if you have to quibble about it, "Mr. Poopy-Pants!"

I have seen how brittle it becomes after using it to cover a hole in my vynil siding on my house. I was just curious as to how it would react with the vacuum, the extreme hot/cold oscillations and the radiation differences.

I think that the adhesive on the tape vaporizes in the vacuum of space. I do know that they tried to use it to fix the blanket and finally had to say "Screw this!"

Many light years away on a distant planet, a small ape-like creature will discover a roll of silvery material that doesn't seem to stick to anything very well. He'll throw it away, and his kind will have to wait another million years to evolve and invent the garage.

You should have written 2001. Imagine , no monolithic black slab - just a roll of non-sticky duct tape hitting <zonk> some ape on the head. It could have evolved into 'Planet of the Tapes' !

How do they hold up the stars?

Yeah right, from time to time they tend to fall off.

1st LAW of Thermodynamics: Conservation of energy

2nd LAW of Thermodynamics: Energy has quality

Note: these are laws, not theories

Regards,

Yeh but who trusts a discipline that has a 'Zeroth' law eh?

well said, can't argue with that except the laws have not been denounced yet. I entered the engineering discipline because there are laws, and things are generally less subjective than other fields.

I am not one who tells god what to do with his dice, but it is nice to be able to predict what physical phenomenon causes to lie as they do

Why didn't you become a lawyer?

Some say that balance is everywhere.

Let me explain suckers (?).

Whilst in a mood for sophistry , how about this. People are taught that 'hot air rises'. Odd that , I prefer my own world where cold air sinks. I suppose it's all relative if you're clear about gravity.

......................Boyling

like

...................Kelvinating

and occasionally .......Steaming !

Well, it says there, dark-on-light, that darkness is everywhere.

In contrast to the photon-conspiracy, "light" is nothing more than the absence of darkness, and that it is darkness, not light, which is the fundamental radiative transport mechanism of the universe"

Can anyone argue with that?

- - - - - - - -

Just remember everyone, your so called "PHYSICS" is only a suggestion. Another equally valid suggestion that any law in existence, is subject to anyone's whimsical interpretation, will remain so until further notice, and may or may not change, at any given time (or vice-versa), once you blink your eyes with less than maximum attention, or when you're not awake, even for a briefest moments, with or without your awareness and/or consent

There is also that old dispute:

Which can more extreme, stupidity or wisdom?

I don't know which is more extreme, but stupidity is more stubborn.

Also, God is supposed to have said "Let there be light" in order to transform the pre-existing darkness, so?

I was merely quoting, cynically quoting, what I deem nonsense.

Please, don't ask me to explain nonsense.

I'm sorry if I have to repeat myself, but the thing that bothers me about Genesis is it wasn't written in the first-person.

That's because the almighty is modest and self-effacing.

You and I must be reading different books... In the one I have, in about half of it, God is more than willing to rip your head off and hand it to you!!!

And that's just what the 'True God's Children' (their definition) have been doing for millennia, and continue to do today. I have no fear of God, but I sure do fear them!

It's about the same

I think we're all afraid they'll do likwise...How far ahead of fanatic Muslims does this put them?!

I'm still waiting for the first Christian suicide bombers... Oh, wait! They believe in bombing, just not in suicide! My bad!

Hmmm! ya know, if you break down the word "fanatic," you get fan-a-tic. Does this mean we're going to see bomber that blow things up for their idols? Like Christmas crackers, only instead of confetti coming out, thousands of filches accompanied by a banner that says "Madonna Rules!!!."

Sarcasm seems to be lost on vermin.

Well... Not when it's good sarcasm! I mean how do I know you're kidding?

Don't tempt me, I'll start bouncing again!!!

You don't, that's the whole point of good sarcasm...

No. That's when I take you literally and think you're a religious freak.

The whole point of sarcasm is to cause a rough with the other person.

Well, it seems that I've managed to do that.

Do what? I'm still waiting for the punchline.

By the way, does anyone have any idea what Gwen is talking about in regard to Peter Gabriel?

Dunno , but when Bob wrote Exodus he was probably jammin'.

"Do what? I'm still waiting for the punchline"

Caused a rough.

Good to see you bouncing again. Please define space in were to stick things. Paul Simon or whats-his name don't care much. Lets have two goes. One hot one cold. Your still on the subject, are't you? Ky.

P.S had to go up north for a while because of the cold. Had not kept up with the subject.

You have no idea how strange it is to hear someone say they need to go North to get out of the cold, do you?!

He's the lead singer in Genesis

I guess that some things need spelling out to poor vermin.

Bob.

Or we need to make a little picture, although the subject isn't that pictorial.

You're right ,, vermin is darn ugly with or without bounce.

I know who he is/was. I just can't figure out what you mean by "It makes Peter Gabriel a bit nicer."

What makes him nicer?!

his bounce

The fact that he did not wrote his book in the first person.

I can't see myself reading a book about (About, right?) Peter Gabriel, but are you saying that he didn't write about himself in the first-person?! What was that about?!

And what happened to the cute, little penguin? My avatar was get quite attached, actually.

Gabriel was in Gremlins ( Out , out ) , so you should know all this.

You were talking about a book called Genesis. Who would be the writer do you think?

God?

Peter Gabriel?

Don't keep us in suspense

No god is female.

Your punctuation is flawless !

This discussion is going over the edge.