Custom Motorcycles

Welcome to CR4, chopprs. Got any pictures of some of the custom bikes that you've built? We'd love to see them.

I have a few pics from my digital camera. I gotta look through all my pics to find them but here are a couple. I have done 53 bikes so far. 32 have been in magazines and I have been on only 5 magazine covers so far.................still pluggin'

Glad to see you discovered the bikinis!

Your designs will fetch u a better price without bikinis

But they're all Hardly Raginstones! No Real motorcycles?

Here is another. A classic replica of a late sixties, early seventies Harley road racer.

Very nice!

Reminds me of my old XR 750.

Looks great. I've been intending to build one pretty close to this, (but in all black) for years.

Here is another. A sixties style chopper. That's not me , that is the goober that I built it for.

Hi chopprs,

How much horsepower caused that pavement to crack?

-John

take it out on a customers checkbook - Is it safe to be your customer?

It is almost similar to the question of a young man to the woman of his dreams. "Would you like to be my widow one day?"

Show some pictures please (of the bikes not your customers )

............that comment was in jest. Although I have had a couple that were absolutely unbearable idiots. I made them go away by attacking their checkbooks. THAT made me feel great!

Found a kewl pic of the chrome bike. This bike has a 127 cubic inch motor. 162 rear wheel horsepower. This is a burnout that we did INSIDE the studio while doing a photo shoot for Barnett's Magazine. That is me holding the forks. If I had let go the bike would have gone right through the wall. The smoke was so bad that the fire department came. When they saw what we were doing they stayed and watched (and drank our beer!).

Here is a pic of me on a bike we were shooting for Hot Bike a couple years ago

How much would it cost to build a bike like this??? With a Harley Engine..

Nice looking bikes! How about taking us through a build? I'd love to see pictures all the way through a build and get a few insights of the engineering behind a custom bike.

........not sure what you mean. Do you want me to take pics and describe each step???????????

Yes that is essentially what I'd love to see and read. I don't need all the details of each step just the high points. There was a thread put up a while ago where someone went through the steps of rebuilding a motorcycle which had the pictures although a few more comments would have made it even better.

Found a pic of another one. This was a cover bike. On The cover of V-Twin-December 2002........

Here's a kewl one. This one was in Hot Bike, I think like three years ago.........

I've enjoyed motorcycles all my life starting when so young I was sitting on the gas tank ahead of my Dad, the last Harley I rode was a 1947 hardtail that Dad painted and rebuilt in about 1971. I've also enjoyed sleeping, now have sleep apnea and appreciate every moment and not being woke up.

So how do we get mufflers back on motorcycles?

I live in a small town, Kewaunee, WI and normally within every 10 minutes there is a noisey Harley going thru, or a car/truck, I look forward to winter, the summer is sooo nice by the lake with the windows open except for the X$%& motorcycles which can be heard on the end of the 1/4 mile long pier (once when the sound reaches you and once more when it echoes off the cloud bank. Some bikes can be heard over a mile away as they leave town, what good does that do? $%^&*() assholes! I don't care where they are!

A flashing white light on motorcycles (watch a headlight bob down the interstate coming towards you for miles away, long before you hear him, which happens after he passes you) or any vehicle eliminates the incorrect idea that sound makes a Harley "visible" to other drivers. I've passed a string of motorcycles with all the riders having ear plugs. Then passed some who like goober who didn't have enough sense to come in out of the sound, much less the diisturbance they cause to others, some of these when they start them I jump, being a combat vet I wish ....

I'd make the white lite strobe/flasher retroactive, all vehicles must add it for safety, headlites can be lost in the on-coming sunset. Strobes can be much brighter then a headlight being visible to but not messing up an oncoming driver.

Sorry to change the subject, maybe this should be another forum?

An aeronautical engineer certainly understands strobe lights as on aircraft, when the bikes/cars/trucks have there stock muffler you don't hear them go thru town.

Wisconsin has a law that states your motorcycle radio can't be heard over 70 feet away, the bike rider would have to be wearing earphones to hear his radio over his exhaust? What sense does that make. Put a muffler test on the show bikes and it will change the riding public?

Wisconsin (like other states) have vehicle muffler laws that only some states are enforcing, I travel alot in the US and Canada, and most other places are much quieter but they don't have the fishing for salmon and trout on the big lakes.

"Sorry to change the subject, maybe this should be another forum?"

Do ya' think?

It fits pretty well in the General section. Engineers have lots of interests outside of work, and building cool stuff like custom bikes one of them.

Hi Moose,

I wasn't referring to bikes being on another forum. I, myself, love bikes and everything about them. Iwas referring to complaints about the wonderful sound that happy bikes make. To muffle a beautifully engineered and crafted Harley engine just doesn't make sense!

Oxymoron: a quiet Harley.

-John

Sorry about that, Johnjohn. Thanks for the clarification.

- Moose

I'm afraid Harley's have lost there coolness appeal for me since they patented the noise. Potatopotatopotato................please! Nice bikes though.

Johnjohn.

First, There is NOTHING "beautifully engineered" about a H-D motor. It is an archaic design pure and simple. H-D has ignored scientific evidence for over 50 years that a 90 degree V is the optimal configuration for a V Twin. Ducati, Moto Guzzi, and other European Motorcycle Companies went to the 90 degree configuration and build World Class Racing and Street bikes.

Examples of "Beautifully Engineered" Stock V Twin Power:

MV Agusta, 1000cc, 152 hp and 75.5 ft.-lbs of torque

Ducati, 999cc, 130 horsepower, with 73 ft.-lbs. of torque.

Moto Morini, 980cc, 140 horsepower, with 91 ft.-lbs. of torque.

From an engineering standpoint, even a V-Twin Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine is more sophisticated than an EVO or Twin Cam motor .

The fact that even with the fantastic efforts Eric Buell, (a great engineering talent,) to make a Sport Bike with a H-D motor, the only way they can race, (racing is a test of engineering competence as well as rider talent,) in to compete against Metric bikes of half the displacement, 600cc VS 1,200cc. (And they still do not win.) I think a Buell with a modern motor would be a world championship caliber motorcycle.

A $20,000.00, 165cid H-D Clone Motor puts out less power than dozens of Metric Bikes costing less than half of what the 165 cid engine alone would cost.

Beautifully Crafted, yes. There are some fantastically crafted H-D Clone motors out there. A tribute to the Machinists skills that make them.

As to the "muffle" statement.

LOUD does not equate to Beautiful.

A Formula 1 motor makes a beautiful sound.

A NASCAR V-8 makes a beautiful sound.

But they make their sounds on Race Tracks not on surface streets at all hours of the day and night.

The big joke is that Dyno Tests have shown that all the different Straight Exhausts preferred by the H-D Clique make significantly less Torque and HP than the Factory Exhaust system with a few exceptions that make a single digit increase at the top of the RPM range. This would make a stock H-D more drivable on the street than a straight piped one.

If you were to record a straight piped H-D and a after-market exhaust equipped Metric Bike and played them to people without identifying the source of the sounds and list the comments, you would find that most people would say the H-D sounded like "some kind of junk car or truck" and the Metric sounded like "some kind of racer". The only people that like the sound of an un-muffled H-D are Un-muffled H-D Riders.

The basic truth is if you are serious about motorcycle engineering, H-D is going to be at third from the bottom of the list, just ahead of URAL and DPNER.

And you being on this site, which is an Engineering Site, I would expect a certain amount of logic and scientific thinking from you, not illogical emotionalism.

Sounds like you're really having a bad day! Take a breath and get some fresh air.

I was just responding to the whining comments made by guest (#11). I did not mean to imply that the HD engine is the best engineered powerplant on the block, just that it has a beautiful look and feel about it, especially to those who appreciate its innate beauty (yes beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

I know that the metric bikes have far surpassed the old HD in many respects, but its just that the bike has become a classic with a LARGE following. There are many folks who love the potatopotatopotato sound. I do have to agree with you that perhaps it should be kept away from relatively quiet neighborhoods, etc. Atlanta, being quite a large metropolis, has its share of "loud" bikes but they don't aggravate most folks to the point that they go around screaming "off with the dirty biker's heads" or something like that. My neighborhood is fairly quiet with a goodly number of senior citizens. A loud bike might come down the street once every couple of weeks or so. But I do concede the point to you.

I grew up with British bikes in the late 50's, 60's and learned to appreciate fine workmanship. I absolutely adored my Triumph Daytona 500, and my Triumph Bonneville. I have also owned a Ducati as well as several Hondas. I even had a 1947 Norton 500cc single cylinder. Talk about a bike that would throw you over the handlebars if you forgot to retard the spark!

"And you being on this site, which is an Engineering Site, I would expect a certain amount of logic and scientific thinking from you, not illogical emotionalism."

That doesn't even warrant a response. Get a life!

-John

I really appreciate the sound of a Chevy 454 (actually 2 of them) with water cooled headers, Fuel injected and Electronic Ignition in a 36 foot ocean going racing boat, idling at 2,000 rpm. I wired and swapped engines and maintained these too.

Johnjohn if we only had noisey vehicles every 10 days it wouldn't be a problem, the last noisey bike went thru at midnite (some nites after 2am) and the next at 4am, and usually every 10 minutes after that, sometimes 10 bikes in a minute. Suck up bucko, this is serious!

Our aviation engineer needs to figure out a way to keep those simpletons who can only tear off a muffler to put on his muffler because it is sweeter sounding, so many crappy sounding bikes running around, sound like they are choking on there own bad gasses.

Some law enforcement with balls would also help...there are more towns in US & Canada putting up the signs with the red circle and slash over the word NOISE, Carefree,AZ costs $750 for no muffler or too noisey.

Hello Guest,

My post #15 was meant in a light-hearted manner but obviously wasn't taken that way.

"Suck up bucko, this is serious!"

And well it may be. Just hasn't been a problem around here. I'll tell you what is much more serious than bike noise from careless, or stupid, riders. It's those idiots that blast their mobile boom-boxes, windows down, volume at max. THAT is what ticks me off. With most bikers, the noise is not directly, intentionally, directed at folks around them. There are exceptions, but ususally they just think the sound is cool, or maybe that a bike is not a bike unless it's loud. Many times they are just ignorant of the facts that a lot of people object to it. OTOH the nuts driving around with their volume cranked to the stratosphere and the bass adjusted so low it vibrates ground, windows and everything else around it The difference here is that this is obviously intentionally directed at every human within a 1000 feet of them!

This is a situation I can easily relate to. There are decibel laws regarding objectionable noise aroud here (not sure what the level/distance is), but as has been pointed out, they are usually not enforced.

The boom-box and low bass is far more serious!

However, if I lived in Sturgis, SD I would probably have a much different viewpoint.

Now, I've sucked up...

Here in Wisconsin the law is that a motorcycle radio can't be heard more then 70 feet from the motorcycle.

But, you can't hear the radio over the exhaust of the motorcycle!

So the only time they would have a problem is if there motor wasn't running and there radio was cranked.

By the way your horsepower quotes are for horsepower at the crankshaft, as give by the manufacturer. The one that the Aeronautical guy quotes is "rear wheel" horsepower, as taken by a dynomometer. I beleive that one would work out to be about 211 at the crank. Your information is flawed and does not hold up to your argument!

An interesting point that harley has no idea what they are doing. I am and have always been interested in all types bikes. I think Honda dreams are kewl as well as Vincents and Ducatis. You post some quotes for power on some european sleds. Although they are all great bikes, I think if you added up all of the bikes that all of those companies ever sold they are most likely to fall far behind Harley in sales. Please forgive me but........isn't that what they are trying to do? Sell bikes? .......and bye the way, they do sell their "junk" for thousands more than most of the"other" bikes. Perhaps you might rethink your opinion.

Hi chopprs,

Thanks for weighing in on this, and welcome to CR4.

-John

I'm not a particular fan of HD's but you can't take away the fact that thousands of people are permanently marking their body's with the logo. A marketing mans dream....

In the UK, a HD is a lifestyle statement. As regards the noise, there are VERY strict regs over here, with heavy penalties....

.........correct, a marketers dream. I don't beleive any other brand has the following that H-D does. It is an American icon! Their models bring two or even three times their msrp in Europe and in Japan can cost as a hundred thousand U.S. dollars. No other brand can say that. Their stock seems gros in leaps and bounds. I bought a hundred shares back in 1990. I lost track of how many times it has split since then. I could probably buy a house with the proceeds. A good investment.

Bye the way, the gents comment about the stock exhaust is completely incorrect. I have run dyno tests myself on this . The stock exhaust ALWAYS shows the least power because it is the most restrictive. Mandated by EPA. Drag pipes actually fair quite well compared to stock, making more power across the board and much more power up top. Two into ones usually turn out the best results because of the fantastic cylinder scavenging effect that they provide. Gobs of torque increase in the bottom and mid-range over stock.

...............are you related to Ralph Nader?

I've never understood the mentality of spending all that cash on the bike and then having it make so much damn noise going down the road.

When I finally get my $ together for a new custom one. It sure as Hell wont sound like a broken down diesel truck going down the highway. I don't mind the Thump Thump Thump but they don't need to make so much noise that you need ear plugs.

A nice bike will attract all the attention you need you don;'t need the noise.

BTW Very nice looking bikes.

Bikers who wear earplugs arent wearing them because of the noise coming from their pipes they wear them because wind noise at 70 mph will make you deaf in a hurry if you ride long distances on a steady basis. Also there are plenty of harley type engines (Vtwin Air Cooled) that put out horsepower and torque figures most sport bikes couldnt dream about. But they also arent the most friendly bike to ride because of the fact they are bar hoppers at best.

Consider that the most Harley noise punished among us are the really innocent little kids in there strollers and dogs on there leash, ears closest to the Harley noise. You should hear the Harley echo between the buildings, you can't have a conversation 2 blocks away you have to stop talking to someone in front of you until they pass, you can't talk to a customer (my sales are 4-5 times as much as a great Harley) on the phone, these are needless invasions of my privacy, your rights end where mine begin. Being a combat veteran and having started powerhouses these are the low frequencies I hear in, I don't hear over 8,000 cycles, have you ever watched a womans lips moving and not hear a thing? It's not always a good thing.

Harley noise stops commerce, now thats costing all of us. Harley noise prevents US from hearing emergency sirens, now thats dangerous to all of us. Harley noise when they are in a group of 10 is deafening and understanding that it may take 3 hours if you can completely recover your hearing sensitivity, this is damaging to health.

I pay to go to the race track for noise and thrills, kids there are wearing ear muffs, they are not wearing ear muffs on the street, where the Harley may actually be louder because it is closer then a race car on the track.

The Harley rider is in front of the shock wave from his exhaust so gets very little of the sound, going down the interstate I don't hear them until within 25 feet as I drive up behind them, then the noise stops when even with them, but there noise "cone" can be a mile wide, not very fair to others, rather insulting to others and our rights as I see it. The "noise warning is bullshit."

It's not Ralph Nader when it affects your earning your livelihood, I see no reason to wear ear muffs so I can't hear danger.

Harley noise stops commerce????!?!?! Dude are you reading what you are writing?

Choppr

What exactly is the process on purchasing a custom bike like yours?.

In other words do you decide on design & paint sceam and looks from an idea a customer has or does someone come in with a pretty good idea of how they want it to look and you work closely with them to design something that is still ride able on the street.

Do you work only with a certain type of engine?

What about frames? Start from scratch or start with a basic frame and add to or take away parts?

I'm really interested in getting a Custom bike some day but have no idea where to start. Other than to SAVE SAVE SAVE.

Well, most of the time the customer has a pretty good idea of what they want and no one offers a turn key. Just about ALL of the time the customer wants something extremely unique. As you can see from the diversity of just the few pics I have posted, I do not do just one type of bike. As far as frames go, I can order anything that anyone can conger. The frames are made by computers. The days of bending tubing on a framing table are not going to be around much longer. Computers are WONDERFUL! Everything fits!........just imagine how great that is? There is still some welding and fabrication along the way. EVERYONE changes their minds a hundred times about incidentals during a fabrication. Some stuff looks kewl BUT we want to actually ride this thing-with a relative amount of control and safety. So, some ideas don't make it while others get refined and become better. Engineering without a slide rule. I love it. I had a professor who would say that it is impossible but as I recall he was missing a finger! Engines? S&S is over rated. TP Engineering is the best but they are overpriced. Ultima has the best bang for the buck. They are great looking engines with big fat fins for great cooling, they run like Wile E. Coyote with his nuts cut off and their warranty is great with technicians to answer all your dumb questions as far as your phone. To do a build list, or a preliminary parts list takes several hours and I usually will not do that unless someone is sitting in front of me with a large stack of hundreds. last but not least, I have been doing this since I was a ten year old kid and helped my brother every day after school to build a 1947 Knuckle chopper.......thirty something years ago. I know what works and what does not. An invaluable commodity to a potential customer.

"There are many old pilots and there are many bold pilots but there are no old, bold pilots"

Hi chopprs,

Over the years I have had a lot of "metric" bikes, but never had the chance of riding a Harley.

I really love the way your bikes look, and having spent many weekends restoring "oldies" for fun (I just left an old Magna 700 '85 in mint state!), also know how much hard work you have invested in each of your creations...

Messing with an American icon can lead me into deep s..t, but I really would like to know your opinion about the riding performance of a Harley when compared with metric cruisers. I'm really more concerned about the way they turn, brake, or how balanced they are rather than how many HP the engine delivers to the wheels.

Well we could chat for days on this subject. Here is my opinion:

When the overseas guys started trying to clone the Harley "thing" way back in the 80's it was a joke. It was like someone was trying to clone........the sun. They just could not. Since then everyone has made progress in leaps and bounds. Much more recently because of computers. Things these days seem to progress exponentially due to computer graphics and simulations. Much easier than hands on and waaaaayyy quicker. I beleive it was the Boeing 777 that was prototyped with not one single hard part fabricated. Everything was designed with computer graphics by teams of engineers all over the globe connected through the internet. When they were finished they simply started building planes! Amazing!!! Then the other guys started to come up with some good adversaries to the Harley price difference with things like the V-Star and the likes. Currently there are almost as many kewl aftermarket items for these type bikes as there are for Harleys. Directly from the manufacturer as well as great guys like Arlen Ness, "THE" guru when it comes to custom bikes!

As far as handling, turn in, braking, acceleration and other discussable items. Harley has been using computers just like everyone else. The frames have been tweaked and the changes have been purposefully been made difficult to notice. The reason being that those resistant to change, a large part of Harley's following, may not be offended. These bikes handle amazingly well for a touring bike. To the point that if handling were your decide all that it would be simply personal preference as to wich brand you would buy.

Then there are things like the V-Rod. My jury is still out on this one. Originally I was thinking that Harley spent a lot of money on a big mistake. This bike was not well received at first but some of the newer models are definately less offensive to the "Harley Eye"! I recently have made some sense of this bike and beleive that the EPA has forced them to follow this road and they may have decided to attack it at an earlier than needed time to build a followinging in time for them to meet the 2012 EPA mandates and still be able to sell abike or two.

The area of handling is phenomenally subjective. In my view, when I think of the best handling bike I've ever ridden, it was a 350cc four-cylinder Honda we prepared for a 24 hour road race (called the 24 hrs of Nelson Ledges.) It handled so well that we could afford to be slower than almost everything on the straights and then fly past them in the corners. Is was so easy to ride, that we had only one minor crash (while other teams were bending bikes into pretzels all around us). We ended up first overall (per our count) or second overall officially (dang!) beating every 350 (save one) every 500 every 750, and every open class bike.

We only passed a few bikes on the straights, but notably, two that we could consistently pass were Harleys -- Sportsters with replaced shocks, forks, wheels tires, brakes, and worked-over engines. (The sounds were quite a contrast: we shifted the Honda at 14,500, and it sounded like a bumble bee. The Harleys sounded like a garden tractor with a hole in the muffler.) As a bit of trivia, Eric Buell rode with us (I think -- or maybe he was on another local team -- but he used to hang out around the shop etc.) He was an absolute Harley fanatic back then (1972, 1973, etc) riding an Aermacchi Harley in the GP class when everybody else was running Yamahas. We all though he was a superb rider who would do much better on a Yamaha. But you had to admire his allegiance to the brand. He went on to form Buell Motorcycles later.

What works on a race track doesn't work (for some people) on the road. (For my tastes, our little Honda was great on the road too -- but many would find it twitchy and almost everyone would find it uncomfortable.) Back then, when I'd do state inspections on choppers, I had to ride them -- it was part of the process for any bike. From my perspective, the handling was terrifyingly unresponsive. But the owners were completely happy. Today, I'd probably be happy on a chopper -- I'd just want to slow down for the turns a bit more than I used to.

So, while lap times can give you an objective measure of handling with a race bike, with a chopper, it's more about feel -- if it feels right, for you, its right, for you. Assuming it doesn't have gross problems, like wobbles.) Most have great straight line stability, at the expense of cornering. There are no free lunches, only trade-offs.

Your perspective shows your experience. Handling IS phenominally subjective to riders weight, height, build and most of all preference. Back in those days I hung out with Eric at the racetrack. He is a great guy. Since then things have changed, A LOT! There are euro, japanese as well as other bikes that handle so well that they almost drive themselves. You can go 200 mph on a bike off of the showroom floor with one hand on the bars (Busa)! Harleys are a very well handling bike, per their design. Remember, they are a "touring" bike and not a racer. The bike pictured above that resembles an old XRTT 750 had extreme handling on a stock frame with racing forks and some good shocks and tires. Rear wheel horse on that one was 142. I doubt your 350 would go by that one but then again there is 30 years of technological advancements involved. I do remember, though, a guy I knew back in, oh, maybe 1979 or 1980. He had a Honda 500-Four and nothing could touch it. Back then I had a 750-Four with an 836 kit, big carbs and ported heads and he went by me like I had suddenly dropped a cylinder. It was a lot harder to go fast then and seemed like more fun. Today it is too easy to go waaaay tooooo fast. Bolt on a couple parts to just about whatever you are riding and it will probably startle you or even scare the crap outta you, depending on what it is and what you do.

It was a lot harder to go fast then and seemed like more fun. Today it is too easy to go waaaay tooooo fast.

Could not agree more! It scares me to watch kids wobble along on crotch rockets -- you know that some are just a day or two away from learning a hard lesson they may or may not walk away from.

Honda 500: We raced the 350 for a couple years, and then built a 550, figuring it would be just the ticket -- a litle faster, but still small enough to not pound us around too much. It was an absolute rocket, and I could handily pass Reggie Pridmore (a real racer on a 900 BMW) through turns at Summit Point -- and it was a long way down the next straight before he could pull us. I never raced that one at the 24 hour, but my team used it at least once for first overall, before going yet bigger.

The 550 was a blast, but still not as much fun as the 350. The 350 was definitely easier to ride, and was unlikely to spin the rear wheel in anything but a really slow turn -- so you were able to make a few more mistakes. But there was something about the feel of the bike really having to work to go fast. You'd turn the throttle, and the bike would scratch and claw its way to speed. With the 550, you just set the throttle and the bike would go that fast -- it was as if there was no need for acceleration, it did a galactic speed jump, or something. Impressive, but not as much fun. The 350 was human;the 550 was one heck of a machine.

Thinking about it, it's a little like the difference between all the Harley copies and the real thing. The Harleys are living things, the copies (many of them) are solid, competant machines.

C-O-R-R-E-C-T-I-O-N, it WAS a 550-Four that my buddy had, not a 500 four. I remember the stock name tag on the side of it the day I went to his shop and he had the head off "porting" it. With no computer mind you. I never knew how many heads he wrecked before he figured out what shape to make the ports. Must have been a bunch cuz that one was just stoopit fast!

Doesn't it suck getting old? You have made all the mistakes to know how to do it right but you also know how much it will hurt if you are wrong............

Doesn't it suck getting old?

In my case it's more like: didn't it suck getting old. I'm already there and have adjusted. I just bought a new welding helmet (my first auto-darkening one) and was please to see that the window lines up pretty well with my bifocals.

Hah!, Haven't done that one yet. I still have the old gray one, it's so scratched up I can barely see through it with my readers. No bifocals yet. I think I bought it about 23 years ago. I am in the space age though. No more stick welder. I got a mig back in '90! Aren't they great? Just point and squirt!

The new welders are incredible! (I say new.... another old age thing. What are those "new" little phones you can carry around called?*) I have a wire feed welder (MIG without the IG) and it's amazingly easy to use. I've been welding a lot of 1/16 wall tubing, and with a stick welder, I'd be blasting holes through it all the time. I bought the new hood because I'm welding nuts onto the end of tubes, and even the little jerk of nodding a hood into place can put the start of the weld in the wrong place.

When I can justify having a TIG machine, I'll get one. I used to be a pretty good TIG welder, and would like to get back to it: nothing like the beauty of a good TIG bead.

Stick = drag racing. MIG = road racing. TIG = observed trials.

* My wife and I used to mimic her dad, who would start conversations like this:

"I saw what's his name at the... what the heck is the name of that store... you know, the one down by where that guy with the red hair used to live... well anyway he has this new car, a... you know one of those little ones..."

The weird thing is how my wife and I can have conversations like this now, and actually make sense of them!

Dude, you are frekin' hilarious! I have tears in my eyes from laughing. I have conversations with my wife just like that, only she doesn't get it...........yet!

"The weird thing is how my wife and I can have conversations like this now, and actually make sense of them! "

It also happens now and then at home too, when "uncle Alzheimer" visits us

.........geesh! I hope "uncle Alzheimer" doesn't decide to visit when you have your razor knofe inside someones brain!

"success is not decided by what you have done or where you are going but by doing what you want each and every day"

"success is not decided by what you have done or where you are going but by doing what you want each and every day"

In that case I guess I've made it Magnum Cum Laude. It's great ain't it?

Well.......lessee.............I drink beer and play with choppers all day!.The funny thing is, they pay me for it! hahahah.........Great? Yes it is!

By the way, that quote is from Christopher Morley, a fantastic writer.

I know.

I like this one: "No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as [much as] the dog does".

Welcome aboard! It's always good to have more bikers around.

The Harley sound! I heard a rumour that the sound was created because the two piston chambers were of a different size! Is this true?

Negatory Mr. Truman Brain. When the Davidson Brothers and Mr. Harley concocted this jewel they merely cloned the highest technology of the day. That was the radial aircraft engine. They pretty much did the equivelent to slicing two cylinders off of one and figured out how to make it go. The potato-potato-potato is due to the 45 degree v-twin and the "dual fire" ignition. Both cylinders fire at the same time:ie the coil fire both plugs at once. If'n you get Jethro to help with the math on a 4 stroke engine with 360 degrees of rotation you will find that the rear cylinder fires on the compression stroke as well as the exhaust stroke. Any unburned combustable mixture will now have a second chance to burn. This is what give these bikes their vibration and there unique sound. It is also why the newer bikes are so much smoother. They are now single fire ignitions. No more potato-potato, now it's more like a thump-thump.................thump-thump.

I have another forum going on how to turn a center lathe into a copy lathe! All started about 5 months ago when a mate of mine who owns a chop shop decided he needed someone to make bits for him! I said yes because I love this sort of work! I bought a center lathe with a milling head attachment with the intention of making bits and bobs! now I want to do more curves and the manual lathe is not really suited to this! Then I saw the David Mann web site and he inspired me to get even more creative! The sound, the smell, the curves ooooooooooooooh stop it now!! It is art! Here in the SE of Spain, the chop is in full swing, long live the chop!!

I have a manual lathe (powered lengthwise feed but manual cross feed) and really enjoy making parts with it. There are things that I really should send out to someone who could make them much faster, but much of the art is in the the process. There are those (my wife comes to mind) who cannot see the art in a beautifully-machined piece, but for me, a nicely machined piece of metal is a Picasso.

I can´t agree more Ken! I had the joy of working with an old toolmaker whose hands were the size of dinner plates, he used to turn out some real works of art with gears and pistons and levers and wot not! Can´t beat it!

The kewlest machines are mechanical watches. I collect them. I just purchased a new Panerai. I bought the tool to open the back and ........aaaahhhhh a machining dream. Evertything is engine turned in miniature and the word "Panerai" is machined in to the winding weight in gold about 50 times. I could never make parts that small with my sausage fingers! I could just look at it in amazement for hours!

Have you seen the miniture planetariums? they are also quite an eye opener! come to think of it, I don´t know any engineers or machinist with long thin fingers! I´ve just glanced at my hands and yes!!! I too have short stubby fingers! I have grown into my old toolmakers shoes!

Harley stories abound,

I was told by my foreman one day that he used to ride with my Dad when Dad would stand on the seat of his Harley, he had a notch in the throttle that kept it at 55. Dad said it came in handy one nite when it was foggy, he could see over the top of the ground fog by standing on the seat, he thinks the truck driver coming the other way may have had a fright...

He also told of going thru the S-turn on the city street with curbs one way at 55 then came back thru at 65 and lost it, when he quit sliding he was against the curb, something told him to stand and up and move, thats when the bike fell down where he was sitting...

Nice to know there's dipshiits like you bringing the motorcycle industry down. Thanks for taking your frustrations out on customer's checkbooks and wallets. You are one of the contributing factors to online parts and accessories purchasing for riders. Noone wants to deal with people that jack prices because you feel like it. Just another reason I will never ride a Harley, or a custom chopper.

Hah! Gotta love ya............you would be payin' for my Hawaii vacation! YOU would get a SPECIAL PRICE!!!!..........hahahahaha!

chopprs, dont blame you for hiking the price a bit! It´s dipshits like him who keep changing their mind over and over again even when you´ve gone out of your way to find that ´special´part that they don´t want any more! Keep on chopin chopper!

Like I said before, I don't make the prices. The manufacturers provide a retail price list. I only do that when I can't stand some idiot and I want to get rid of him. Spark plugs, 2 for $49.95, gas caps $99.95 each and so on. It usually doesn't take long before they go away! It works good and I don't have to tell the guy to his face that he is a pain in the ass! Those are usually the ones that want to fist fight ya! Yeah just what I need in a place of business..............."Well, yes officer, he was a shithead so I hit him in the face with a tire iron"........hahahahahha.

As long as you got the tyre iron back!

Right on chopprs!

Its called Tire-kwando (some call it Tire-tooley). Either method works well against idiots like that.

-John

Wrong, it's dipshits like me that understand the concept of getting what you pay for. I understand that paying for my 450lb Italian superbike of 1000cc's with 114hp @ the rear wheel, and 60 lb/ft of torque equates to hauling ass around a track at a blistering pace without wasting money on chrome, and bling, and impaired hearing from unbaffled pipes. I understand, all too well, the concept of wringing every available performance gain from the modifications that I perform on my motorcycle. I also understand that there are far too many RUBS (Rich Urban Biker Syndrome) people out there that have money burning a hole in their pocket, and they are willing to part with tens of thousands of dollars for a chromed out lump operating on antiquated technology that weighs nearly a half ton.

What I fail to understand is whay the average RUB will spend that much on a chunk of machinery, and never ride it. Also, I will never fathom how many people will go out and spen the previously mentioned thousands of dollars on a custom motorcycle only to wad it up in a ditch because they never took a riding lesson, or they used to ride dirtbikes as a kid, and that qualifies them to operate a motorcycle at speed in public. I fail to comprehend why someone will buy a "custom" chopper so that when something breaks or goes wrong with it, they can't go down to their local bike shop and order parts. They have to pull out their wallet, and return to the "custom" shop to have another piece magically appear from the metalworker's hands after parting with half their checking account.

Signing off,

The guy who just doesn't understand.

If you doubt my credibility, I really don't care. Try running your "custom" around a closed racetrack such as Virginia International Raceway in one minute and forty-seven seconds. Try slowing down your custom from 170mph to 80 in about a half-second.

First of all, take a deep breath. It's not really that bad, you can just "Relax Francis"! It really is a free country and everyone has a right to their opinion. Most "RUBS" really do have no clue and they can be annoying. Though they do spend a lot (with me), they have lots of dumb questions and often want me to "teach" them how to be "kewl".(Yeah, O.K.!) Some of them never ride their custom although a few are o.k. dudes and do learn to ride and have a great time. There is an incredibly large following for this and lots of places to go to and show off their custom and just hang out with others that have customs. The Harley aftermarket is a multi-BILLION dollar industry. There are literally hundreds of manufacturers! As far as your "going around the track" you really need to look up at the top of this page. There is a pic of a bike that I built that will run circles around your "Italian" bike. Your comment is called "stereotyping" and this act is ALWAYS incorrect. Here is proof for ya. There are "Harley clones" that will go by your Italian bike so fast that it would be like you suddenly stopped. Look here:

http://www.confederate.com/confederate2/c2-links/home.html

.....and here is MY favorite, 207 horsepower, 218 ft. lbs of torque, Titanium chassis and carbon fiber wheels:

http://www.ecossemoto.com/index.htm

A smart guy once said to me" Beleive nothing that you hear and only half of what you see". Things are not always as they seem! HE WAS RIGHT! (He was also my dad!)

Thanks, chopprs for the link to Ecosse! Extremely cool. I've always loved the Confederate bikes, but hadn't seen the Ecosse (I've been living a sheltered existence lately.) I have an instant visceral connection to some designs, and the Eccose does it for me.

Hey Ken, thought we had lost ya for a while there. ....Yeah! I have always thought the Confederate Hellcat was kewl just because of the extreme functionality of the design. Though a little odd in the aesthetics department. When I saw the Ecosse Heretic at the bike show in NYC a few years ago I went nuts for it. Someone finally went all out and used all of the technology available today to wrap the radial V-Twin in a mechanical wonder. I must have staired at it for at least a half hour before my wife tugged me away to go look at some..........uh......I think it was leather jackets.....uhm....anyway, yeah. Well you know how it is!

...........bye the bye, The orange, white and black XRTT styled bike pictured near the top of this page?...... I built that bike for one Reeves Callaway! In case you have never heard of him, he owns a little company called Callaway Corvettes! Here is a guy that goes past the 200 mph mark quite often........He is also a "RUB"!!!!!!(and a gentleman!)

I extend an open invitation to bring either one of those, and spend a trackday with me. How much does the confederate cost? How much will it cost to replace the parts when it is laid down at the track?

As for the 207hp bike, again, what is the initial cost? How much do you have to spend on a machine to get your return on investment? And as for passing me, again, I extend the invitation. You will outpower me on the straights, but I will wave every time a turn approaches as I pass you on the outside.

Personally, I own a 2004 Aprilia Tuono RSV1000, and all total, I have $7K invested in it. Can you say the same for any of the machines you have posted?

I also have a wonderful relationship with my local dealer, and he extends deep discounts to me for bringing him repeated business for parts, accessories, and motorcycle customers. As for throwing out names like Callaway, you are just reinforcing my earlier point of people with more money than sense. I won't even ask how much he spent for the XRTT, and I will give you credit that it is the best looking bike of the bunch you posted. It resembles a bike that could be ridden with a purpose.

It seems that in the last 3-4 years, every swinging dick that can weld has opened up a custom motorcycle shop. We have a plethora of Hardley customs running around with pilots that, for the most part, don't have the faintest clue how to truly appreciate the intended purpose of a motorcycle. It becomes a status symbol to be coveted by their friends and neighbors. As long as they can be approved for a second mortgage, they can own a custom.

If you want to see a true custom that originated with a H-D engine, and has true engineered design, look at Buell. Eric Buell is a genius at mass centralization, and creating a machine that is coveted by many for an affordable price. It is just a shame that he is limited to his potential by running a Harley engine. With his technological prowess on two wheels, given the right support, he could do great things for the two-wheeled world.

As it stands with the current direction of motorcycling, we are doomed. With all these RUBS buying bikes, and dilluting the essence of the machine. Accidents have increased due to lack of experience, insurance premiums go up for the responsible riders. We are thrown under the scrutiny of the government again and they look to pass laws to restrict even more rights of motorcyclists. Sound restriction laws are enacted because H-D guys just can't run with baffled pipes. Yes, some sportbikers do the same thing, but not nearly the same extent of the H-D crowd.

And what do guys like you do? You laugh all the way to the bank, while the rest of us suffer from the backlash of your customers. Thanks.

"It is just a shame that he is limited to his potential by running a Harley engine. With his technological prowess on two wheels, given the right support, he could do great things for the two-wheeled world."

Did it ever occur to you that, perhaps, Buell chose Harley by choice?

Harley was the only company that would invest in him at the beginning. He has been stuck with their underpowered lump ever since. A+ to him for trying to make it competitive, but there is something inherently wrong when a 1300cc H-D engine can't compete with a modern 600cc powerplant from any Japanese Manufacturer. Look at the AMA results from the Daytona race this year, or do a search for the Buell XBRR. Sorry if this derailed your thread Choppers.

Taken from an article in Motorcycle Daily:

The Buell Firebolt XB9R discussed in our article dated July 13, 2001 showcases Erik Buell's engineering genius. Buell, as many of you know, began building bikes in his garage many years ago, utilizing the Harley-Davidson Sportster engine. With such a huge, relatively underpowered engine, Buell nevertheless designed a light weight, solid handling machine that gradually gained power as the years passed.

After Harley Davidson bought into the company, and eventually took 100% ownership, Erik Buell finally had the financial resources to create new designs, and even an all-new engine. So, what type of engine did Erik Buell build? An air-cooled, two-valve-per-cylinder, push-rod, 45-degree, v-twin. What? An old-school motor! What was he thinking?

I've never heard of anybody actually buying a Harley for the purpose of going quickly. Mostly, they buy them to be seen on. When discussing Harley's, always remember this and take it into account. I would never own one myself, but I appreciate why others do. I have a 750cc Kawasaki, and a 500cc Moto Guzzi. Both completely different, both fun, but in a different way.

YES! Agreed. Harley's are TOURING bikes! Not racers. It is like trying to race a Lincoln Town Car against a Ferrari, and then try to convince everyone that the Ferrari is superior simply because it is fast..........just stupid!

Personally, I will take The Guzzi over the Kawey. I just love Guzzis, always have. One of my best freinds just aquired an early 80's Lemans. WOW what a neato bike!

HAH! I don't think much occurs to him except how great, wonderful, fantastic and incredible HIS bike is!

I don't want this to become a pissing match, because arguing over the internet doesn't really accomplish much. Neither party engaged in the discussion can infer the intent of the words due to the lack of facial expressions, hand and body language.

I have a personal beef with the lack of responsibility on guys that buy motorcycles simply as status symbols, that is all. They pollute our hobby/sport with unneeded attention, and add to the already tense relationship between motorcyclists and the general public.

I have a deep appreciation for all motorcycles that are built with precision, and the due respect to the form of the motorcycle. The Confederate you posted is a rolling piece of artwork, and I give it credit for being functional, as well as aesthetically sound. I have owned Honda, Suzuki, Aprilia, and Yamaha, so I have an appreciation for a well designed machine regardless of the manufacturer.

I personally like the H-D V-Rod. It is a very solid machine, and I respect the fact that they teamed with Porsche to create the engine.

If we were to meet face to face, it may be a totally different conversation, but as it stands, my point is lost in translation and has already fallen on deaf ears. People will only hear what they want to hear, no matter how important the message may be.

Keep wrenching, and i'll keep racing.

As I said earlier, I am an enthusiast. I love all kinds of motorcycles. I have since I was a small child. I get along with about 99% of the people that I meet. My customers LOVE me. I always get invited to a dozen events or so whenever a holiday swings around. You, sir, are obviously pissed off at the world for some unknown reason wich will not and will never concern me! There is no blog on the net that will ever convince you that your underpowered paperweight is not the best rocketship that was ever created by man. It is no good for you or anyone around you to be subjected to your anger and single-minded ignorance. Your invitation to race at the track is a useless ploy for when I or anyone else speeds by you there will be some excuse like "You spent more than I did" or "I didn't get my line" etc.

By the way, Mr. Callaway ,as I said earlier, is a gentleman and EXTREMELY intelligent. A joy to talk with about any kind of fast vehicle. Just because he is wealthy does not make him a bad guy(again, stereotyping). Sounds like you may be just a tad jealous............

Hi chopprs,

What do you think about the Lifan bike? Know anything about it? A friend of mine bought one and thinks it's a great bike.

-John

That is the first time I have seen that one. I think it would be a little too small for me. I have ridden the likes of the Honda Rebel as well as other 250cc class bikes on the highway and they were a little too easily blown around by other traffic and actually a little scary on a windy day. For around town or back and forth to work it would probably be great as long as you stayed on the side roads. 80 mpg does sound fantastic with todays fuel prices. Looks like they make several models and parts are readily available. Look here:

http://motors.search.ebay.com/lifan_W0QQfromZR40QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ3QQsbrsrtZd

Sorry Johnjohn, that last reply about the Lifan was from me. Forgot to sign in.

No problem chopprs,

One thing I forgot to mention about the Lifan (this is from my friend who bought one). He said that up until 2006 (I think), the Lifan was not roadworthy due to things like no lights, turn signals, etc. I believe starting with the 06 models Lifan remedied these deficiencies. Even though the motor may be a little small for your taste, you might get a kick out of checking the bike out.

Any other Lifan owners out there?

Oh, on the contrary. I already do think they're neat. The sport bike looks like a hoot. I could almost pick it up and put it in my pocket. It is NOT the engine size, I could care less about that. It is the Physical size of the bike. They are just too small for an interstate. Way back when, Harley made small displacement bikes like the "Hummer". They were 125cc and 250cc, The design was part of reperations from WWII from the Germans. I beleive it started out as a DKW. What a kewl little bike. I would love to have one(or two) but I would never go on a highway with it. If a tractor-trailer passed me it would simply suck me over in to the next lane.

Hi chopprs,

Interesting bike. Not really what I'm looking for though. This Mustang on the cover of Cycle-Trader's Jan. 94 edition is exactly like the one I had in 1956. I know it was a small bike but man, it was a head turner though. I loved mine. That's a bike I'd love to have these days. They're a little rare however. Even if I had one, parts would probably be a bear to come across.

Have you ever seen, or even rode, one of these? They were great fun (and, as you can see, you had to put the girl on your lap).

-John

Did you look at the Harley Hummer. Looks somewhat similar and there is a large following for these and lots of parts......and it says "Harley-Davidson" on the tank! A novelty and quite the conversation piece.I also understand that they are quite reliable-German engineered!

http://www.harleyhummer.com/

..........oh yeah and here is one of the fastest bikes on the planet(before the poor guy died!)! A LITTLE 999CC V-TWIN!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.britten.co.nz/

I saw the Britton race at Brands Hatch, unbelievable bike...

I have never seen one in person. Only read, seen pics and videos.....but yes, the man was a genius!

Just to let the group know that I ride a Honda Shadow! Now, I have left for group rides with more Harleys than "Rice-burners" and arrived with more "Riceys" then Harleys. Harleys are okay (40% more money)but....

I say" I ride too far,to long and to fast to ride a Harley."