Previous in Forum: What Tangibles Should A Company Provide To A Contract Manufacturer   Next in Forum: CARBON PLATE G125 for Electrolysis Of Seawater
Close
Close
Close
32 comments
Rate Comments: Nested
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 452

Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 2:33 AM

I have been experiencing a series of losses in Peanuts exporting activities due to sweating and mold formation.we pack the shelled peanuts in jute bags of 50Kgs, load approx 20T in each freight container, seal with the customs provided seal, fumigate the container with the approved pesticide (usually MBR) and then ship the container. We are looking for recommended guidelines and suggestions for loss minimization and to prevent recurrence of such incidents.

__________________
thoughts becomes things.
Register to Reply
Interested in this topic? By joining CR4 you can "subscribe" to
this discussion and receive notification when new comments are added.

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#1

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 4:36 AM

I have a few questions;

Is this a problem that has only recently occurred? Can you cut down transport time ? Without drying the things completely, is there an optimum moisture level ? Is the problem possibly in the use of jute bags - and the sizing -(I don't know, but does such stuff allow the product to 'breath'). Have you contacted the shipping agent to discuss this issue ? Would changing the size of each bag make any difference? Could the freight container be fitted with some sort of humidifying gizmo ? Depending upon the end use, could you desicate the product before shipping ? Have you tried to find out what other people in a similar business do (people in the same business are often helpful - they may need your help and knowledge one day)? Is there some contamination at your plant that may be initiating mould before bagging and shipping ?

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#2

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 8:13 AM

Why are you removing the shell? The shell of this food is a natural protective barrier from pests. More than likely the shell is more protective than the jute bag.

Methyl Bromide (MBR) is does not work on mold or their spores.

Proper food processing requires constant vigilance. Mother nature will adapter to our efforts. Why does your food sweat? The sweating is likely why the mold spores grow. What is the moisture content of the nuts at packing time? Is the sweat from condensation on the container walls? What species of mold is your problem? The mold might already exist in your jute bags.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#14
In reply to #2

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 9:36 AM

"Why are you removing the shell? The shell of this food is a natural protective barrier from pests. More than likely the shell is more protective than the jute bag."

Just an educated guess here, but I'd say they are removing the shells so they can get more peanuts in a single shipping container. If this is the recent change (Shipping shelled peanuts in Jute bags instead of shipping peanuts in the shell.) I'd hazard a guess that some bean-counter (nut-counter? That sounds even worse, could easily be construed as an offensive double entendre, I should see about getting 'nut counter' as a new nickname for accountants) decided to implement this as a cost-cutting measure.

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 42355
Good Answers: 1693
#3

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 11:06 AM

Your problem is caused by inadequate ventilation.

There must be more detail you have not shared.

Register to Reply
2
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: by the beach in Florida
Posts: 33392
Good Answers: 1817
#4

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 11:57 AM

The fight against mold formation is a constant battle....there are guidelines for handling and shipping......moisture(<8%) and temperature control is critical...the shipping containers must be below deck...

http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/ware/nuesse/erdnuss/erdnuss.htm

The molds, chiefly Aspergillus flavus and A. Parasiticus are dangerous in that they form the byproduct Aflatoxin, a known carcinogen.....The levels of aflatoxin is closely monitored and more than 20 ppb is rejected....

There are direct biological controls in development, but to my knowledge, they are not readily available on the market yet....

__________________
All living things seek to control their own destiny....this is the purpose of life
Register to Reply Good Answer (Score 2)
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 452
#6
In reply to #4

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 2:06 PM

Thanks for guidelines

__________________
thoughts becomes things.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Power Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2007
Location: NYC metropolitan area.
Posts: 3230
Good Answers: 444
#5

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 12:45 PM

I see a potential "local usage" problem here. Are "shelled peanuts" peanuts that are still in their shell or peanuts that have been removed from their shell? Also are they processed or raw?

__________________
“Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn.” Ben Franklin.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - New Member Fans of Old Computers - Commodore 64 - New Member Popular Science - Evolution - New Member United States - Member - New Member

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Illinois, 7 county region (The 'blue dot' that drags the rest of the 'red state' around during presidential elections.)
Posts: 3683
Good Answers: 89
#15
In reply to #5

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 9:40 AM

It may be different in the Big Apple, but in the other 49 states, 'shelled' tends to mean 'shell has been removed,' and a nut still in the shell is referred to as a '___ in shell.'

__________________
( The opinions espressed in this post may not reflect the true opinions of the poster, and may not reflect commonly accepted versions of reality. ) (If you are wondering: yes, I DO hope to live to be as old as my jokes.)
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
Posts: 1679
Good Answers: 33
#7

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 5:02 PM

There may be some issues to take into account, like air moisture and air temperature at your facility: If very hot and moist, when cooling down during shipment moisture will condensate forming water, increasing chances of mold growth. Cheap alternatives you can try are: 1.- reducing air moisture levels during packaging 2.- to bag your peanuts in sealed plastic bags under a modified atmosphere (Nitrogen) 3.- to control the harvest conditions to prevent mixing ripe with still green (with higher water content) peanuts.

Another thing you may consider is adding value to your product by roasting or frying the peanuts you manufacture: this will dry the beans preventing the problem you currently have. Despite this implies to invest some money, you will create more jobs and gain new markets for your peanuts.

__________________
the more I move, the deeper I get stuck !
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru
Technical Fields - Technical Writing - New Member Engineering Fields - Piping Design Engineering - New Member

Join Date: May 2009
Location: Richland, WA, USA
Posts: 21017
Good Answers: 795
#8

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 5:41 PM

Do processing locally, and ship out finished products such as peanut butter and candy bars. The finished stuff is less perishable.

__________________
In vino veritas; in cervisia carmen; in aqua E. coli.
Register to Reply
Guru
Australia - Member - New Member

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Thailand
Posts: 631
Good Answers: 3
#9

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/15/2014 10:24 PM

Nitrogen and / or vacuum (ok, partial) packing - sealed in plastic, with desiccator?

(Only slightly less than a W.A.G.)

__________________
Floss or die!
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 930
Good Answers: 31
#10

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 1:19 AM

Do some research on chlorine dioxide and check for compliance, You may be able to use plastic bags and inject chlorine dioxide which will not support any mould life or even nitrogen may work. Just a guess on nitrogen but chlorine dioxide I use it quite often. Then again if the peanuts are clean and free of fungal and mould then vacuum packing may be the answer if you use plastic bags.

__________________
The fine line between cuddling and holding one down to prevent escape must be learned
Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#19
In reply to #10

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 8:03 PM

Good answer.

Chlorine Dioxide will dissipate completely when released, and it is not a powerful environmental hazard like so many others.

(of course, the autistic kid next door may suddenly become cured.... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todd-drezner/autism-cure_b_1588498.html)

Have you used plain old salt? Layers of it can preserve a LOT of shelled peanuts. And its cheap and even re-cyclable. Though I suppose vacuum packaging would also help. I think salt would extract the last of the moisture in the peanuts.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply
Associate

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Beverly Hills
Posts: 52
Good Answers: 7
#11

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 3:49 AM

It would help to have a little more data. But. Keep this in mind. Over eons Mold and Bacteria have been at war. Yeast and fungus are included in the mold family. But the main point. You say you fumigate with the approved pesticide. That may be part of if not the problem. Why. You say it is approved. and I am sure it is. But maybe not in this situation. Most pesticides are mostly Water. Most pesticides happen to kill many bacteria. Thus. More moisture and less Good bacteria that keep the mold in check. There are many factors about mold and backer as to what one wins. But there are variables that make this happen. One is moisture and others have mentioned this fact. The other is heat and or cold. There are some fumigants that have little to no H2O in them but they are usually more for large pests like mice. Fostoxen is a good example. It is used in Wheat and comes in a pill form as well as other forms that do contain water and then other ingredients that make the off basing heavier than air so the stuff will work its way to the bottom and not just stay on top. Normaly these used in Cargo Ships before Cargo Containers the stuff was dumped in the hold as they are called on a ship and then the waterless pestiside is added. The Crew would have to be instructed in their language by law to stay out of there for three days. But that depends on what is used. My hole point here is cargo containers are far far more moisture proof than an old ships hold. And then adding the bag. I think I would cook the things before shipping or send some small bags with and without the current pesticide and also if raw try cooking or blanching before shipping. But most of all keep that sucker dry. A vacuum pump would help but may not be practical. Ships do have power for Cargo containers that need refrigeration. I bet a 220V vacuum pump would not be a problem for them to keep running. It would constainly keep removing moisture. Since they are peanuts the oil will keep them from feeling dry. Just have several bags and run tests with several small bags with different pesticides and different moisture levels and or cooked or partly cooked. Like frozen patatos have to be blanched or you have mush rather than good patatoes after Freezing or storing for a short time. This is for a different reason but it also is related. Test. Test. And then test. Jim

Register to Reply
Member

Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Pune, india
Posts: 5
#12

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 7:20 AM

Root cause of the problem is your packaging. The nuts do retain moisture and contain oil in them. During transit in moist whether, the hot vapour promotes mould and bacterial infection. The jute helps to collect the moisture and create fertile ground for mold. The solution is to pack the dried nuts in aluminium thick foil bags filled with vaccum or nitrogen and sealed. Place these al bags in jute bags for safe handling. You need no fumigation of container too. S D Bakare

__________________
Suresh
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#13

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 7:46 AM

You are in which part of India? I am in Bangalore and I know of reputed MNC which is into this business . They can help you out to package and transport - provide turnkey solution. The jute bag definitely does retain moisture and compounds the problem.

Register to Reply
Guru
Hobbies - CNC - New Member Hobbies - DIY Welding - New Member Engineering Fields - Electromechanical Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 23647
Good Answers: 420
#16

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 10:30 AM

not knowing your process......... because it would definitely help.

Unless you're looking for a process......

are these peanuts roasted?, and if they are, are they properly cooled down prior to packaging.

__________________
“ When people get what they want, they are often surprised when they get what they deserve " - James Wood
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#17

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 11:46 AM

See what my friend from MNC wrote to me on my email.

Hello,
Thanks for the mail. There is sufficient information on this issue with the Food & Agri Org FAO of United Nations. Also some exporters have solutions to this issue in Gujarat.If the gentleman can speak to me then I can recommend him some solutions.

Regards

MMS

sent from my iPad

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#18

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/16/2014 4:11 PM

IF these shipping containers are sealed, and the humidity/moisture content of the peanuts is above 7.9% you will get fungal growth. Methyl bromide is not a fungicide.

Have you done any REAL research yourself? Try shipping some of the containers with some amount of dry ice added inside, as carbon dioxide may be sufficiently acidic as to inhibit the mold spores from generating, and thus prevent the formation of toxins.

I hate the idea of shipping "naked" peanuts, for crying outloud, give the peanut its due dignity. If you insist in shelling them, why don't you brine them, and dry them as a preservative? You really should try the dry ice thing though, it will not cost all that much.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#20

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/19/2014 7:46 AM

Kindly see link of a pdf document I have placed in the drop box. It is a CAC/RCP 55 published in 2004. It relates to peanuts.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/52559ztgcmxr7ry/Codex%20Peanuts.pdf

You can call me or my friend in MNC directly - if you need more help. let me know where you are based in India.

Register to Reply
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#21
In reply to #20

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/19/2014 9:12 AM

xyz: that is a nice document, however, it does not seemingly directly address the issue at hand which is fungal (mold) growth in shelled peanuts in jute bags being shipped in steel container boxes.

Some of the principles outlined in peanut codex could and should be implemented notwithstanding the variance in conditions. My suggestions: (1) consider a completely different bag material that is not susceptible to fungal growth. (2) remove moisture completely as possible, and introduce the dry ice to (a) further drive off moisture and (b) produce a low humidity environment in the shipping container. (c) at least initially lower the temperature in the container. (3) the peanuts should be brine blanched to remove as much mold spore as possible, and if jute bags will still be used you might consider blanching in the bags. The left over salt residual will not harm the product and may inhibit mold propagation at least to some extent.

The biggest hurdle is the humidity in the area where the containers are being filled with product, and the residual moisture in the product at the time loaded.

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Guru
Engineering Fields - Electrical Engineering - Been there, done that. Engineering Fields - Control Engineering - New Member

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Long Island NY
Posts: 15600
Good Answers: 981
#22
In reply to #21

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/19/2014 9:28 AM

What about filing the container with Radon gas. This heavier than air gas will fill the bottom of the container just like the jute bags of peanuts. With the air displaced around these bags there cannot be any mold growing.

Another idea would be to partially evacuate the shipping container volume. This will allow a low temperature plasma to fill the gas volume of the container. This should both sterilize the container and leave the nuts uncooked for their six month journey on sea and sitting in a port warehouse.

Does anybody know how long these nuts have been in transit? I'll bet that after a Forensic Biologist identifies the species of mold and the amount of growth that they will be able to say how many months this food has been waiting for something to eat it.

__________________
"Don't disturb my circles." translation of Archimedes last words
Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#25
In reply to #21

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 12:57 AM

All your points are well taken. This MNC is professional well reputed brand all over the world, specifically into business of helping such growers, into cold storage, bulk transportation etc. There are issues in using brine solution - as many times these peanuts may be used in applications where salt content may not be acceptable. So you you loose that market segment. Pesticides are definitely not acceptable. Minimise handling between farmer to end customer - depending on target market segment.

Register to Reply Score 1 for Good Answer
Guru

Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ottawa Canada
Posts: 1975
Good Answers: 117
#26
In reply to #21

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 4:42 AM

I remember seeing bags (not jute, but tighter bags, like flour bags) used half full of rock salt, and forming layers of salt inside a container. (actually a box car) My memory is dim, but I seem to remember it was an oil seed, possibly canola, or maybe soy. The oil seed was in jute bags. I was a kid, hired for my strong back and weak mind, but I remember unloading a half a box car which was mis packed, and the mould stunk everything up. We had to toss the product. When the box car was pressure washed, dried for a week, we stacked up fresh product as I described, and it seemed to work. All the other box cars (what we used before containers) were stacked that way, and as far as I know, they got to market with no problem. The salt looked like it had been re-used a few times. The trick was to not pack the salt bags too full. Leave them less than a hand span thick. They were not as heavy as the jute bags.

Of course, those memories are more than 40 years old, so I may have missed something. I remember most how pleasant it was to work without a fog of pesticide. Customer didn't trust pesticides, liked salt. I think the customer was Russia. The port of exit was Hudson's Bay.

__________________
If it was easy anybody could do it.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: India
Posts: 452
#23
In reply to #20

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/19/2014 12:43 PM

Please provide contact number

__________________
thoughts becomes things.
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#24
In reply to #23

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 12:47 AM

I am in Bangalore Give your contact number.

Register to Reply
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#27
In reply to #24

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 5:04 AM

Just a polite hint. Never openly give contact details. If Admin spot this they will delete your post (I suggest you ask them to do so). Use the Private Mailing system if you wish to exchange contact details.

If you are not clear on how to do so, click on a members name. Somewhere up on the righ you will see a button that says something like 'send a private message'.

I suggest you take action, because every spambot will now have your number. If unsure how to proceed, click the button that says 'report' and try as briefly as possible to describe the situation.

I am leaving this discussion. The OP is taking up information, but providing no feedback that might help others.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#29
In reply to #27

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 6:27 AM

Thank you. I have taken necessary steps.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Etherville
Posts: 12362
Good Answers: 115
#30
In reply to #29

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 7:24 AM

Glad to hear it. I am sure the community at CR4 will help you find a solution. The Private Message system is a very good way of exchanging information that may be of a confidential nature (contact details etc).Please accept my best wishes in progressing the topic.

__________________
For sale - Signature space. Apply on self addressed postcard..
Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#32
In reply to #30

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/21/2014 3:18 AM

Thanks

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Power-User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 258
Good Answers: 2
#28
In reply to #23

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 6:24 AM

I have sent you a private message- pl look up.

Register to Reply Off Topic (Score 5)
Guru
Safety - Hazmat - New Member United States - US - Statue of Liberty - New Member Engineering Fields - Chemical Engineering - Old Hand

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 14331
Good Answers: 162
#31
In reply to #23

Re: Peanuts Packing

06/20/2014 10:42 AM

Sandeep: If there is an issue with brining, why not have the purchaser wash off the brine upon receipt in their warehouse, just prior to their processing? I still think using dry ice (carbon dioxide), would drive off moisture, and actually blanket the peanuts in the bags from oxygen and moisture. Obviously, there is a time-temperature-humidity-oxygen relationship to the storage of shelled peanuts, and cutting out most of the oxygen and virtually all the humidity, gives you a considerably longer time at the temperature range that exists. Besides, the dry ice could help lower the average temperature experienced by the peanuts during transit (as long as sufficient dry ice is used, and the container has even a modicum of insulation material (as styrofoam cooler).

__________________
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just build a better one.
Register to Reply
Register to Reply 32 comments

Good Answers:

These comments received enough positive votes to make them "good answers".

"Almost" Good Answers:

Check out these comments that don't yet have enough votes to be "official" good answers and, if you agree with them, vote them!
Copy to Clipboard

Users who posted comments:

adreasler (2); James Stewart (3); jimmyjoejetter (1); Kris (3); lyn (1); phoenix911 (1); r&ddoc (1); RAMConsult (1); redfred (2); roy hammy (1); sandeep lokhande (2); SolarEagle (1); Stuart21 (1); Suresh Bakare (1); Tornado (1); xyz (8); Yusef1 (2)

Previous in Forum: What Tangibles Should A Company Provide To A Contract Manufacturer   Next in Forum: CARBON PLATE G125 for Electrolysis Of Seawater

Advertisement