How Would you React to Such a Reply? - Bench-top Machine

Is this common practice in this particular industry?

Perhaps you could ask them to offer you information on a similar product so you can get an overall idea.

Have you checked their website, are they reputable? Are they local, what about a good old site visit and sit down with their engineers (or video or phone conference) to discuss your requirements and get a feel for the company and if they can provide something that will do your job?

Have you asked for a quote with a request for details and perhaps a proposed design?

Unfortunately, this guys are 7,000 mi away, so the good old site visit is not possible :-) When I contacted this company, I just said what I was looking for, expecting them to request me some samples of my product, in order to see if any of they std machines would do the job or if it had to be custom built.... In any case, I expected perhaps not a detailed description of the tool, but at least a rough sketch on how it works, and the capabilities of a similar machine...

In any case, I expected perhaps not a detailed description of the tool, but at least a rough sketch on how it works, and the capabilities of a similar machine...

Without entering into a contract with the company this information may be proprietary knowledge, hence the lack of information.

Best you talk with them directly and see what the real story is, perhaps you were just talking with the wrong person.

I'd look for other bidders.

They must have an idea what they are going to build. Drawings?

Did you send a RFP, along with clear specifications? Detailed performance requirements? An explicit understanding of what the machine must do BEFORE payment of the invoice?

Acceptance requirements are in order before any order is placed.

Well, these guys are supposed to be the pro´s! I am just a customer who has a problem and is looking for advise. I sent a description of my problem (quite simple as you have read) and a picture of the tube to be slipped onto the barb. The next logic step would have been to request a sample for them to propose the most suitable tool; but something failed in their communication :-)

This might be cheaper.

Yes, it is... but we have learned the hard way not to heat the tube: it slips !

We have tried different temperatures and so on... but it is not the method for this application.

It probably depends on how many of these things you need to produce, but, you can buy adhesive lined heat-shrink.

We used to outsource the assembly of this part, but due to new regulations we have to do it in-house. Production is of about 10K a month, so I have to find a way to produce it by means of a semi automatic machine. Heat shrink is not an alternative, cause the part is a surgical drain and these kind of plastics / adhesives are not approved for such a purpose.

See if you can purchase or lease the device that your previous assembler used to do the job.

Having owned a design and fabrication shop, even at $3500.00, there should at least be a sketch a more details..... Even with that said. Not know the particulars, $3,500.00 is more like a simple jig/fixture.

For the OEM to come up with a number, they have to have more details, or you may be the one that's going to get screwed due to a misunderstanding.

Now, After reading some of the post, move along, there should be other OEM's in your area.

Why not try to slip the tube inside the barb? It helps to figure out what is larger than what else. We already have heat-shrink tubing; if only somebody comes up with heat expansion-then-shrink tubing....

Heyyyyy! That´s actually the company I´ve got the weird reply from !

It looks pretty simple. Try to build you own.

To be honest, I started going that way!

Well at least ask them for some references. Or ask them how many they sell and to whom.

It looks like one of their standardized products that they produce and sell direct to end users.

That video looked more like part of a commercial so to speak.

´been talking to the owner of my company and he wants to have this issue solved ASAP, so I decided to have this tool built at our shop. My idea is to hold the metal needle with a toggle clamp, while some sort of chuck embraces the tube, moves it forward and slips it over the barb. Movements will initially be done by means of hand operated levers... and if it happens to work, I´ll replace them with air driven pistons.

Would a compression ring over the outside of the fitting help to keep the line tight to the fitting? Some of the plummer's here use this type of connection on Pex tubing to run water lines in homes and for floor heating. They don't leak even with 125 lbs of air in the system, as the systems are pressurized for 24 hours to check for leaks. Just a thought.

Hi! I´ts a great idea, as a matter of fact we currently use compression rings on plastic tubes for diverse applications.... but for this product in particular it jus hase to be the tube slipped onto the barb

Try looking at "Hellerman pliers" (on the web from £24-£200) They are normally used to put rubber tubing over wire joints as electrical insulation. The have three prongs that are inserted into the end of the tube. Squeezing the pliers forces the prongs apart and expands the tube so that it will fit over the wire/crimped terminal/barb. Releasing the pressure slightly allows you to slide the prongs out. Rubber insulation tubing expands more easily than plastic, so you would probably need a heat gun to soften the plastic. There is a similar tool called Elastrator pliers, that have four prongs (used for castrating sheep)

This sort of thing happens all the time in industry. If the component is special to your product and no one else makes an identical item (a competitor maybe?), then it is not surprising there are no drawings or machines available

You have to assess the ability of the supplier to custom build a machine to do what you want, and that would be based on you providing a full specification and contract details, so that both of you know where you stand. The latter in particular to protect each others intellectual property rights.

You must be doing something now to assemble the part, so you must have a good idea of what you want.

If you are not sure how best to build the component, then it suggests you are fishing for ideas by asking specialist suppliers to provide large amounts of working detail so you can build your own machine.

We've all been there!

I do agree with you, but the tool I am looking for is used in many industries dealing with hoses. On the other hand I faced a new problem (slipping a small tube on a barb) and had no clue of what I needed or is available in the market for our process. You probably agree with me that a cleverer salesman would have said: we can do it for you! had sent a picture of a similar machine, requested some samples, and finally quoted the tool. After signing the PO, he would disclose more specific info. The reply I actually question was: you send me the money and I will build something for you ! :-) (we also have been there!)

To r&ddoc #25. That's right - they could take your money and run. But it comes down to reputation - if they are bona fide they will be able to demonstrate competence and integrity if not by actual machines, etc, then by reference to successful projects - ie. satisfied customers.

At the moment it seems their initial reply lacks a degree of finesse you would expect from an experienced supplier. Which leaves you to decide how best to proceed. On the face of it, you seem to know what you are doing - so no problem.

It is much the same as selecting suppliers of professional services - lawyers - accountants etc. In this respect I have a fail-proof technique - it is quite easy - make a list and pick one, and ask them outright if they are experienced, competent, honest and reliable in your type of work - and being members of professional institutions they are obliged to answer honestly - and if they say no - then you ask the next one on the list, and so on...eventually one will say yes...........

Being a neurosurgeon, you made me sweat when you talked about professional services... :-). What I do in this field is to ask around among colleagues if it is a medical issue, or acquaintances I respect, for other pro´s. (also been there dealing with guys with a high self esteem!!!!)

hi Phys, thanks for your reply! Don´t worry, cause your company is not the only one that has had such experiences, same happens to us all the time! On the other hand, I did not request a blueprint of the machine they were bidding, Just some (very basic) info: does the machine run on electricity (voltage / amps) / compressed air (l/min, pressure) ... or both. How many pieces the machine assembles per hour, How much it will take to have the machine built, etc. No part of this info should be very secret, right?) :-) On the other hand, sometimes it is hard to figure out what size of company you are dealing with, when the contact has been over the web. There are many ways of politely not disclosing proprietary information, which seems to be a subject unknown by the person who replied to my inquiry.

Why are you putting a 2.5mm ID tubing on (the outside of) a 3.5mm barb 316LSS trocar? Is that supposed to fit? Can't you just use a 2.5mm barb, and easily slide the tubing onto the barb?

Well: the tube is a surgical drain and the trocar is a sharp needle measuring 150 mm x 4,5mm which helps to guide the latter trough the soft tissues (from the bed of the wound to a closed aspiration bottle) outside of the body. The tube is made of a plastic material which tightly fits on the barb. If not, it would slip off during the described procedure.

This site alludes to a machine which does something similar to what you require, although their actual website Value plastics doesn't mention the device.

Perhaps a phone call or Email could get you more information.

Maybe a little alteration would get you there.

Hi Spades, thanks for your feedback! Believe it or not: we bought products from VP about 10 years ago. TODAY I remembered they had a device called "Tubesetter" that we can easily adapt to the assembly of trocars. About half an hour ago I sent them an inquiry.

Value Plastic´s "tubesetter"

Fingers crossed. I sincerely hope they don't reply by saying

"the machine to push the fitting on would custom and there would be no pictures or videos available"

.... you get such a silly, un-polite reply only once in a lifetime!

Here I found another hand operated version of the fitting inserter. These guys also manufacture products for ValuePlastics.