Hemmings Motor News Blog

Yes, same issue here with lawnmowers and boat engines. I would have to replace the carburetor on my riding mower at least once per year as well as all other rubber based products in the fuel system. The amount of hours per year I used it was less than 15 hours. That is just silly. The good news is that someone stole the mower this year, so now it is their problem.

I noticed in Lowes yesterday that they have an additive for fuel to help the problem. I have no idea of how well it works.

Ethanol also robs a small percentage of power from the ignition process. The loss in fuel mileage is small with E10, but as they continue to add more and more ethanol to the blend, that decrease in efficiency will become more prevalent.

As your crankshaft seals deteriorate (if they are two strokes) you will see the performance drop to a point where they will not run. This applies to multi cylinder two strokes with inter-cylinder shaft seals as well.

I have to take the other side of the argument here. I have ran primarily E10 in my stuff for all of my life without seal problems. All of my vehicles have ran well on it for many years and I run all of the lawn and garden equipment along with the old farm tractors on it and none of them seem to have ever developed any seal shrinkage or hardening problems from it. I have also experimented with running full E85 in all of my vehicles with good results but there was a drop in the fuel economy which is to be expected.

most of what I have found is that E10 and higher e ratios need the fuel ratio jetting changed due to the different burn characteristics that it has. Its not gasoline so it tends to need to ran progressively richer to get the right power from it.

I have ran my 1970 cub cadet on E85 with no problems along with several old tractors that are original condition form the late 1940's to mid 1950's. So for me I have no concerns with the high ethanol based fuels except on the new lawn and garden engines with fixed jetting that cant be adjusted but then most of them run like crap anyway in order to meet the stupid EPA regulations. Fortunately most of those can be adapted to have old adjustable jet carburetors refitted to them to cure a lot of the incorrect A/F ratio related problems.

It's obviously a problem down here or the stores would not be selling a remedy.

I've talked to a lot of commercial outfits that do lawn services here and they all moan about it. Small engine service shops have seen a lot more work after E10 was mandated in Florida. Boaters were the first to raise the issue, followed by lawn service industries.

The problem is real, but I don't know what to say about your experiences, except that you are lucky to not have to deal with it. ;-)

I've got to buy fuel for my car tomorrow. I ALWAYS buy E10 to run in my N15 series 1999 Nissan Pulsar - 1.6 litre, fuel injected. What the stickers say on the bowsers - is DONT use in marine craft or ultra light aircraft. E10 runs fine in my Honda garden equipment !

I'm with you

never any seal stuff, on anything

I did have a Dodge [kcar] that the fuel line at the filter would get soft

2 strokes are more sensitive to using crappy oil, that turns the gas into jello when it gets old

ethanol would suck up water, which would be a problem in florida

That's because some cars are made to run E10 and some aren't.

Also the money saved at the pump on E10 is lost in milage per gallon. So you're really not saving anything.

E10 is more expensive per gallon. Either you pay it at the pump or in your taxes or both.

It's about 35 cents a gallon cheaper at the pump around me here in California.

The only way it can be cheaper is:

1. It is government subsidized...

2. The quantity of formulated gasoline that is free of ethanol is relatively low, so the cost to formulate it is high.

3. Non-ethanol gasoline is taxed at a higher rate by government to herd people toward E10.

If the same quantity of E10 and standard ethanol-free gas were formulated, the E10 would have to cost more because ethanol production cost is higher that that of producing gasoline.

The long and short of it is you and the rest of us are paying more for fuel with ethanol blended in it. If you are being told otherwise then someone is dishonest.

The national average cost difference between E10 and ethanol free puts E10 as a costlier fuel.

There is to support this claim which shows that cost up to 2007.

I did a Google check on alcohol-free gasoline and came up with aviation fuel- available from nearly any airport- the key was to buy "Mogas", not "Avgas" because Avgas contains lead. However, the fuel is "pure" gasoline- although typically about 100 octane and relatively expensive- about twice the cost of "regular" E-10.

Another suggestion- where it is not mandated by state law- is several "off-brands" like Clark and Hess and others often have "pure"- no alcohol- gasoline.

energygod wrote: "several "off-brands" like Clark and Hess and others often have "pure"- no alcohol- gasoline."

In my area, some of the major brands still offer (and advertise) gasoline without alcohol. (I'll have to remind myself which brand the station near me sells--they were a Mobile station--now they are some other brand). AFAICT, this is on a station by station basis, so apparently, at least in some areas, service stations still have a choice (from their supplier).

Mogas is simply regular auto fuel sold on airport. It should be tested for alcohol content before being offered for sale and pilots should also be checking it for alcohol content before filling up. It is not subject to the same traceability as aviation fuel (100LL). The day alcohol-free gasoline disappears from service stations, it will also disappear from the airports.

To check fuel for alcohol, you simply fill a sampling tube with water to say, a 1/3 mark; fill the rest with fuel, shake and let it settle. If alcohol is present, the water level will have dropped under the 1/3 mark as the alcohol loaded fuel will have absorbed some of the water.

try running the stuff in a 2 Cycle Aircraft engine...

They hate it, and the worst thing you can have is an engine out!

As far as e-85,all the kits they sell to retro fit to be able to run it all say you cant use rubber ruel lines,the float in the carb and fuel tank can not be the synthetic type and carb parts have to be changed.Many places sell alcyhol carburators for small engines(they use them in go-karts).and for cars with carbs or injection. E-85 burns 20 to 25 % more fuel.E-85 runs cooler.E-85 has the equivalant of 105 octane.To get the bennafit of running e-85 at a performane stand point, you can bump the timing way up and run a lot higher comression ratio = more power. Go down to the drag strip and see how many people are running it.It is kind of a top secret weapon at the track,kind of like when nos came out. Remember when they went from leaded to unleaded,well engines got adapted then and I do not hear people complaning.E gas has its place you just have to set up for it.

$2.94 for 87 octane regular here today and $2.31 for E85.

I don't care who pays for the difference as long as what I am paying for it at the pump is less.

Also E85 is every where here so some how someone is buying it in high enough volume for the gas stations to see a regular sales of it and no longer mind carrying it.

I just thought I'd try to point to some real numbers on ethanol production. This is from http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/RENEW/Biomass/Cost.shtml, and it says the page was updated on August 01, 2007 (but, of course, that doesn't necessarily mean the figures were correct on August 01, 2007 (nor now)):

<blockquote>

Ethanol Production

The cost of producing ethanol varies with the cost of the feedstock used and the scale of production. Approximately 85 percent of ethanol production capacity in the United States relies on corn feedstock. The cost of producing ethanol from corn is estimated to be about $1.10 per gallon. Although there is currently no commercial production of ethanol from cellulosic feedstocks such as agricultural wastes, grasses and wood, the estimated production cost using these feedstocks is $1.15 to $1.43 per gallon.

Because a gallon of ethanol contains less energy than a gallon of gasoline, the production cost of ethanol must be multiplied by a factor of 1.5 to make an energy-cost comparison with gasoline. This means that if ethanol costs $1.10 per gallon to produce, then the effective cost per gallon to equal the energy contained in a gallon of gasoline is $1.65. In contrast, the current wholesale price of gasoline is about 90 cents per gallon.

The federal motor fuel excise tax on gasohol, a blended fuel of 10-percent ethanol and 90-percent gasoline, is 5.4 cents less per gallon than the tax on straight gasoline. In other words, the federal subsidy is 54 cents per gallon of ethanol when the ethanol is blended with gasoline. The subsidy makes ethanol-blended fuel competitive in the marketplace and stimulates the growth of an ethanol production and distribution infrastructure.

</blockquote>

Personally I typicaly use propane as my primary vehicle fuel so the basis of the E85 argument is for the most part moot for me except for the small amount I use to thin out used oil in order to make it work effectively as fuel in unmodified diesel engine injection systems and for a few other non conventional fuel applications I do as well.

Lots of stuff flying around this thread,

last I knew the federal subsidy was $0.45/gallon which is an excise tax rebate, producers that are classified as small 15million gallons get an extra 10 cents

Here's some info on ethanol prices from this year I've never seen e10 as such here in california [if there were any it would be in Tulare], but it has been the primary oxygen booster additive for at least 15 years, since mbte pollution was discovered in bodies of water

as an additive to reduce smog, ethanol is reasonably good the price of ethanol follows the price of corn, the market crashed in 07

ethanol production plants had signed long time contracts for corn that in some cases was 3 times the price that corn was at 6 months later

the ethanol market has been equalizing ever since. 08 was tough, 09 a little more stable