Roadmap to 10,000 Engineers - Student Retention and Mentoring

One of the big producers of well trained engineers and engineering inovation was WWII.
Now I'm not suggesting WWIII is a good idea, but maybe if all the bankers and politicians were conscripted and taught to do something which actually produces something?
Del

" Thirty five percent of students enrolled in science, math, and engineering programs leave them after the first year."

As someone who went back to college as an older than average student I can say with reasonable certainty that those classes, and too many others, are very out of touch with the needs and requirements of what actual engineering careers need to know and deal with in real life work situations.

There is no point in burning up vast amounts of money and time getting an education that does not fit or serve the job you are after if its going to leave you stranded at the work place with no clue as to how to get actual work done right.

are very out of touch with the needs and requirements of what actual engineering careers need to know and deal with in real life work situations.

That has always been the case.

I heard on NPR this morning that Wisconsin is trying to have a High School Trade diploma that will replace and is equivalent to a High School traditional diploma by concentrating on trades and having so that the students are not required to take English, math or sciences.

The reason, because the students do not believe that would be important. Christ, what does teenagers know? And who are their parents?

When I was in High School in the 70's, our high school had an industrial department that put area technical colleges to shame. Even then as a empty headed farm boy, I realized the importance of a solid educational foundation of Math and Sciences. (I had wished I had more interest in English)

Back in the 80's, I too went to college at a later age and received my degree. I returned again, and will soon receive my second degree. The younger students both times were whining SOB's, (but then again, coming off the farm, college was a vacation compared to where I came from)

But with my second experience, they presented themselves as gifted and entitled to degrees without being earning them.

If we are in such shortage Why do engineers still do their own typing and word processing?

Surely some bean counter should have figured out my time is too valuable?

edignan, you're so correct with that statement!

Also, as engineers we're required to do our own CAD drafting these days too, instead of some dedicated AUTOCAD draftsman doing it! That's something so non-traditional for design engineers to do, that's reared it's ugly head in the past 10 years or so...

The powers that be in engineering firms these days are quite literally are cheap SOB's.........even engineering salaries have been stagnant for the past 20 years.

Maybe it's high time that engineers of all types stage a protest walkout for 2 weeks across the USA...then we may see some big changes very fast as upper management types are not equipped to do the serious engineering work and therefore their companies will flounder! Payback is a bitch as they say!

Dear Friends: I believe engineer-salaries are artificially depressed by giving H-1 visas to Indian(India) engineers, who are delighted with a third or less of the money that we should have from a USA firm. I know of a neighbor who, before he left Honeywell, was training his foreign replacements. He went with a smaller firm, getting more money because he had more work, plus supervisory duties of techs. He also is paid more due to a "partnership-status." Although great at math, he's not too bright, conceptually, saying something was NOT possible, that WAS possible several years later.

interesting of what you said about Wisconsin trade school approach. In the 70's it was used as a model. In the 80's it was looked down upon, so alot of local technical institutes looked to become accredited as technical colleges.

when that happen they need to push numbers though.

Numbers being students. Their tougher classes there were big drop out rates, so what they did was lower the bar to retain the numbers.

Don't get me wrong, you can still get a quality education, but it falls on the student's attitude.

What you say is true, but when you say "companies want to have enough engineers", it should read "good engineers". Maybe companies recognize the quality of engineers coming into the work force are not up to par and therefore are not treated accordingly. There is a big difference between a good engineer and a mediocre engineer.The latter are a dime a dozen and don't contribute much to a company.

From what I've seen so far (and this includes my own 3 bio kids and 2 step-kids) is what they teach (math and science) in the US high schools today is a serious joke as to what was available 30 years ago. The current programs do not properly prepare students for college level courses that involve intensive math and analytical skills. IMO, even current curriculum's in high school (say, Regents Diploma) are "watered down" in order to pass more kids on....and uphold teachers positions (geee, did I say Teacher's Unions????). I've seen this all the way from community college to the Doctoral programs. Kids today are a pathetic whining bunch and couldn't find their way out of brown paper bag + they have to have their hand held throughout the entire process. Good grief, it makes ya wanna bang your noggin' against the wall in frustration regarding the pathetic bunch of 'em! I'm not saying that this is across the board as there are some gifted and prepared students, but the vast majority need to go back and learn the basics. Also, most have very little or no common sense!

No wonder the drop-out rates abound in the science and engineering programs!

Back in HS (1976 Grad) I even took for mathematics subjects: a). Geometry in my Freshman year; b). Trig in my Sophomore Year; c). Analytical Geometry in my Junior year; and d). Calculus in my Senior Year.

And I haven't even touched on the sciences......college level Physics in my Senior Year!

And the SAT exams were tough back then. Today they're a joke (I studied my own kid's SAT prep books), and I couldn't believe the low caliber level of the math questions as to what was offered 35 years ago when I took them. Ditto with the ACT questions!

Today, for the most part they don't teach these courses in HS where you're lucky to see even a re-hashed Algebra course! And when these whiners and twitterer's reach college most have to take a math rehab course, so as to relearn even the most basic of mathematics! Pathetic!!!

I blame the entire education system for the leaking brain cells approach.

If there is shortage, better to import them from surplus countries. These engineers will be too happy to work in U.S, even at lower wages. Also I understand to be qualified engineer in U.S is too expensive so very few can afford this career. It will sever dual purpose it will give employment to young engineers and fill the demand of U.S industry.

Not to worry, the US will just outsource.

Ron

I have to assume that you are kidding.

I think that 'outsourcing' mindset was part of the problem... not the solution. If people start thinking that they can outsource everything... then that leaves the only bean counters in charge.. and then the economy takes a hu-normous dump... seriously.. haven't we learned this already?

chris

Yes i was just kidding. The problem here , as i see it, is all the talent wants to be lawyers or go into the financial area as that is ,what they assume, the quick buck. The fall in manufacturing is the fact that the people with money see more potential in moving money around than actually making something.

As one senator stated "all we have to offer is insurance sales".

Ron

As several others have pointed out, if indeed there is such an emergency, why don't engineers get paid like doctors instead of like peons? Why are so many looking for a job if there is a shortage?

I too went back to college at a late age (University of Houston 1993-1995) to get my basic technical education, and in the engineering classes mostly I saw foreign students, from India and China -- very few gringos. Maybe those foreign students just go home after their student visas expire, resulting in a shortage of new engineers entering the American workplace. At a state school, they can't charge citizens like they can foreign students, so there is a strong financial incentive to admit foreign students instead of Americans.

Let's not discount the possibility that the purported crisis is being exaggerated in order to gain support for more H1B visas so technology companies can offer a visa to live in America instead of a decent salary. Nurses also are said to be in short supply, although there are many American students struggling just to get admitted to nursing programs. Because of the alleged nursing shortage, Filipino nurses are allowed to come here in droves on H1B visas and work as peons for agencies.

I thing one of the problems is, foreign students come here to learn all there is to learn and then go back to their own country. Those that are left after graduation reflect the shortage of engineers here.

" foreign students come here to learn all there is to learn and then go back to their own country."

I think our colleges have found a solution to that problem. Don't teach them a dammed thing useful or relevant about what they came to learn then let em go back thinking they is engineers.

Sounds good on paper and works in the accounting department. What else is there to an education as far as colleges go now a days???

things are so screwed up with our political inapt system. In california and texas of all places is offering a free college education ride to ....................... illegal immigrants. I'm doing this on my cell phone, when I get to my laptop I'll post links.

Heres the links for illegal aliens getting an education on our dime with the

California Dream Act, Aid as well as Grants

As far as the other posts, about the educational system not being broke, its not broke, it is putting allot of responsibility to the student to learn (nothing wrong with that if the attitude is right). With the student having a good head on their shoulders as well as a good work ethic, education is what you make of it.

The prior posts were basically misunderstood, the point with the students for the most part believing they should get a degree for basically showing up for class attitude.

Currently finishing my second degree, I have seen this. with the majority barely getting weeded out near the end.

For those of you that just received your undergraduates, bear in mind, you just got you degree, you did great. And now the real work begins and education is never ending.

"California Dream act" provides money to illegal immigrants. Is it so that it is provided at cost of other legal citizen?. If there is vacant seat in college, and there is approved budget for providing scholarship to students who need it then why to differentiate if receiver is legal or illegal immigrant. He must have have come to U.S with his parents who have illegally entered U.S, what is fault of student? He is entitled to such help.

Student or not, he arrived with their parents who entered illegally, which the student also entered illegally.

and to answer.

If there is vacant seat in college, and there is approved budget for providing scholarship to students who need it then why to differentiate if receiver is legal or illegal immigrant.

Budget? having a budget does not mean there is money to pay for it. And where does the money come from?

There is nothing wrong with educated foreigners, I am paying for my education, ....$80,000.00 worth, and all student loans, not grants, and I'm a US citizen.

But we can not afford to educate the world, you have to have some type of controls, such as requirements.

As far as vacant seats (I'll explain later). Our colleges have certain laws that require diversity. i.e. there has to a good cross section, blacks, white, Asians, hispanics.... Theoretically diversity can be good.

I believe everyone should have a opportunity for an education. Problem is, I'm going to use color here to differentiate. what happens when one (1) seat is available and you have two (2) students:

one black student, who's grade have never been above average, placed low on the entrance exam, and has a average household income,

and a white student, that had above average grades and placed high on the entrance exam, but below average household income. , yes I used white instead of say Asian and is happening more often.

The black student is excepted, and the white student is turn down because the college has to maintain its student body to reflect the cross section in its diversity. Reverse discrimination.........

now this is getting too far off topic. So, as far as openings in college, colleges are expanding throughout this country. an opening can be difficult, there aren't that many seats available.

As far as educating an illegal alien, would your country do this?

If not, why do you expect the U.S. to do this?

I do not approve of any racial discrimination.Let everybody seek admissions on their merits and after that if there is vacant seat is left then illegal immigrants can be be granted seat. I am not aware of any college laws where in good cross section is to be maintained.

I do not approve of racial or reverse discrimination either, this is what this site is for, here is just one example .

We have a public radio station called NPR (National Public Radio), just last week it was discussing just this subject.

Because he is here ILLEGALLY!!! What part of illegal do people not understand?

I'm not at all convinced that the college system has failed. it's been many years since I went to college, (Pratt Institute), but I feel it may be the quality of student that is the problem. Young men and women are looking for careers that offer the most rewards with less participation. I just don't think engineering or the sciences appeal to as many as it used to. When I went to school, engineering was exciting. It was something new in an era that saw the most important discoveries and inventions. Today anything earth shattering takes the form of way far out research only accessible to the very few at the top of university research. I guess you could say the glamor of engineering has worn out.