Challenge Questions

"Your perception of what you sound like while singing is very much different than what it really sounds like."

What? You mean I probably don't sound like Willy Nelson? Can I at least sound sort of like Kris Kristofferson?

Only in the vacuum of space will you both be equal. :)

Or Tom Waits?

1/5th of Scotch and Tom Waits is the cure for the Christmas blues.

Nope. You get to sound like a cross between Cher and Barbara Streisand.

Or Aled Jones in his "Snowman" days if you irritate me....

"reverberation helps disguise vocal errors in pitch and volume"

The same reason that so many of the mediocre singers nowdays use multi-tracking.

So many good singers do as well.

I heard a Michael Buble' song the other day and I swear it was electronically altered with one of those auto-tune devices. I hate auto-tune and I hated that song.

Well, you can get that same effect without the water running, so it can't be that.

I am surprised that your usual command of logic and erudition seems to be missing something (to me). "same effect"? If you mean you can get the same effect without the water running, or that or that you can sing better with white noise but no water, then maybe it could be that, whatever "that" is. Another effect of white noise is that the increase in volume needed (or allowed) to sing over it makes it easier to control the voice pitch and voluntary resonances, at least for us amateur singers. Perhaps we can agree that all of these shower characteristics have some effect on some people. The biggest effect it has on me is that I feel that I am free to make noise without the risk of serious criticism of technique by those I respect (like you).

My name is mud. :(

Don't be so hard on yourself.......................you might just be a really good singer.

You *would* have to fess up! That one 'd' didn't fool anyone.

could be me

Thanks. I was gonna say, the running water/white noise, sure helps me. The more the better.

Stand me next to a giant waterfall, and I'll sound exactly like Pavarotti standing next to a giant waterfall.

In my case the steam from the shower also helps open my sinuses and loosen my vocal chords. I get better command of the notes.

I find it hard to sing well after being in an air conditioned office all day. My throat and sinuses are dried out.

Funny, Pavarotti says he sounds like you standing next to a waterfall. Says it's where he gets his inspiration!

Ah (or maybe I should say Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh) you do know he died in 2007, right?

Well, you're still living, right, and he's not? There you are. He must look up to you.

And did you notice Kramarat is speaking in the present tense? This means Pavarotti isn't dead - or Kramarat is.

And to think all this time we've been talking to a dead spider.

I didn't know he was dead.

I guess I don't need the waterfall anymore. In the present tense, I'll always sound better than him.

Was Pavarotti good?

It must be my complete lack of culture and sophistication. Opera music has always sounded horrible to me.

I didn't appreciate classical voice (opera, if you will) until I tried doing it myself. It was not only one of the hardest courses I took at uni, it was by far the most fun I've ever had in college. In the process I gained a whole new appreciation for the sheer skill and raw talent exhibited by Pavarotti, Domingo and other Tier 1 classical singers like them.

One might not like the genre overall - 'opera singing' (and acting, as many songs are from plays) - but Pavarotti's voice was simply incredible.

At one point in a performance during which Pavarotti was suffering from a bad cold (of all things!) he couldn't hit certain high notes, but the audience couldn't tell. Why? Pavarotti's voice was so much like that of a fine violin - even with a cold - that you couldn't tell that what you were hearing was not Pavarotti's voice, but the sound of the First Chair's violin. Pavarotti could sing like a Stradivarius, I kid you not. The man was absolutely amazing.

My voice coach sang at the Met and so did her husband. Both were professional classical singers, retired. When you sing onstage without the help of a mic, you must project your voice so that those in the very back can hear you clearly. Most people sing "from the chest up" but, to sing like Pavarotti, you must project your voice much as does a drill sergeant - from the belly. In the classical jargon, this is called "supporting" your voice.

My coach demonstrated such support by holding a note loud and clear whilst pushing the studio's wheeled grand piano across the floor using only his belly. Meanwhile the note he was singing did not waver at all. I had a whole new appreciation that day for the skill, effort and training these singers possess by the time they step onstage. You'd be amazed how much work went into the apparently effortless singing of a Pavarotti.

I might not like the song particularly, but what Pavarotti brought to the music was always simply incredible. There's no other word for it.

I understand he also began his career in the shower.

Oh I understand. I also know that it's a lot of work. I have a lot of respect for anyone that can make music............regardless of the instrument.

I wasn't dissing Pavarotti, just acknowledging the fact that I'm a Neanderthal that likes beer, bluegrass, rock and roll, etc.

Much like my dislike of opera music, I'll never understand why someone would pay $200+ for a bottle of fine wine, when they could run down to the liquor store and pick up a big jug of blended whiskey for around $20.

It didn't occur to me that you were dissing the music at all, but rather that you were simply expressing a personal preference. I like all kinds of music, even some kinds of dubstep, such as Skrillex's First of the Year (Equinox).

Almost all of the acoustic volume (power) generated by the human voice is from the oscillation of the vocal chords (vocal folds) just below the larynx and the resonating sound is coupled (amplified) through the larynx and throat into the open air.

Virtually none of the sound is projected or generated into the ambient environment from the human bone structure, although, bone will conduct sound internally very well.

The analogy between a stringed wooden instrument and the human voice is a very poor one and a woodwind instrument would be a much better comparison.

The singing voice is created in the larynx by air passing through the vocal cords, it then rises as a Column of air up into the mouth to hit the soft palate, which then vibrates the air above in the head, which then transfers the sound into the bone structure of the head. I suggest that you read the works of E Herbert Caesari.

Regards JD.

Thanks, but the bone structure does nothing to produce sound external to the body. You can prove that yourself - just listen to someone talking. Sound exits the mouth, not the parietal bone.

Talking and singing are not the same? Talking produces sound at the front of the mouth singing does not. There has been a lot of disagreement over the year as to the correct way to produce a singing voice, one school of thought is that the voice is foreword, and the other school says that it is vertical. I have studied singing for over 40 years, singing in opera and operetta choruses, and have personally experienced an intense column of air rising up into the head. If one sings forward the vocal cords clash producing noddles on the cords that ruins the voice.

Regards JD.

AH (#18) had already said that bone conducts sound well internally, but not externally.

JD (#26) apparently did not read AH's second paragraph. As a result, JD didn't really contradict AH, although he was a bit snide. That was thus OT, and I marked it so.

AH (#27) responded well; GA.

JD (#28) was again irrelevant. His personal anecdote about air column said nothing about bone structures conducting sound to the ambient air.

I am sorry if I come across as snide it was not intentional. I believe it is bone structure that gives each voice its tonal quality, thus enabling you to identify a person by his voice. A violin does not sound like a guitar, a guitar does not sound like a mandolin. And yes AH has a interesting point of view.

Regards JD.

I am not an expert on singing nor do I sing, but having completed my undergraduate studies in medicine and anatomy I can say that soft tissues work to produce the modulation and timber of voice in conjunction with breath control. Bone will not produce audible sound external to the body because it is encapsulated in soft tissue and will therefore not conduct or project sound into the atmosphere.

Acoustics is not my profession, but as a hobbyist I have spent extensive time (and money) building transducer enclosures and even dabbled with acoustic instruments. The principles that give a wooden stringed instrument its color and tone are not the same principles that govern one's voice. In the case of the instrument (or even the vibrations of the walls of a speaker enclosure) the wood surface vibrates and resonates to produce pressure waves at the air-wood interface.

When you apply a layer of soft damping material to the walls of an instrument or speaker enclosure the result is a dampening of the walls, which quickly reduces the acoustic transmission. I even designed the walls of my latest speaker cabinet with a viscus material sandwiched between two layers of 3/4" thick birch plywood to absorb and reduce wall resonances. It worked.

Encapsulated bone in soft tissue simply does not have enough acoustic energy to act as a transducer of sound. It may help in modifying the timber, color, or tone of voice, but it will not act as an agent to transmit and couple vibration to the surrounding air and produce sound.

It helps a lot to be really comfortable with yourself, and a hot shower sure helps that. Add any medicines you use to sleep better :) and the drain gurgling is a song...

The structure of most showers box like with hard smooth walls. The hard walls reflect sound making your voice sound louder. The box structure causes sound to reflect many times causing reverberation. And the size of the structure cause resonance in the lower frequencies making your voice sound lower and fuller then it is.

"Everybody sings in the shower." I'd like to change this to everybody has sang in the shower at least once. Even with all this help of the shower I know I'm not ready for American Idol.

Imagine how American Idol's ratings would skyrocket if they featured a shower onstage...

This one's my fave 'Idol' show of all time: Britain's Got Talent, 2009, Episode I.

I still get chills watching this.

Resonance.

The high humidity is good for the vocal chords and the seclusion allows one to be less inhibited which causes a more relaxed and open technique.
Del
_{Or maybe this is just bull.}

Secluded but not necessarily alone

Indeed, I chose my worms carfully.
Del

Humans breath in a different way when in the presences of water, even a shower, I would guess. The diaphragm does this and makes the sound fuller, more purposeful. The same happens when one yawns, try it, to hit a note when yawning out.

The reverb trick assists the delusion and keeps the singing where it belongs, for most. Talent shows should be equipped with a shower cube on stage so everyone gets a chance.

When birds chime in you know you're onto something, outside of the shower that is.

I sing just as lousy anywhere...

Only thing about the shower is I'm already naked and vulnerable with nothing left to hide.

So are you saying the webcam isn't concealed either?

There goes the neighbourhood!

Reverberation is maybe the key why you perceive your voice to sound like Pavarotti.

I'm saying "perceive" because nobody really thinks the way you do. It is actually you who only think it is.

There's a saying, which I can't exactly remember who said, but it goes something like this "...sing like nobody is listening and you will realize how good you can sound". So maybe, that is the principle behind why people perceive that they good sound when they sing in the shower. It's not really the acoustical mechanism of the bathroom that gives the effect but it is something more of letting it all out without inhibitions.

In the end, everybody has the talent. It is only just a matter of letting stage fright get in the way. And that is what makes a good singer from those who are not.

Excellent contribution.

Excellent post!

i thought the reason was self delusion (watch idols first episodes of every season )

Pavaroti? Not quite

first: I'm not singing in the shower

second: base frequencies of the human voice are at 300Hz; this is equal to nearly 1m wavlength equal to the distance between two showerwalls

change the size of the shower cabine (maybe to a square of 2m or 3m) and the sound will be changed to an echo

Just 300? Well, that explains it. On that note, I understand The Sopranos wore vice grips until they could afford a larger place.

it depends from your body

Sound in an enclosed space makes one feel at home with singing.....emotions freely resound in the isolated place and reverberate more forcefully. similarly a flute sounds more forcefully in a forest or uninhabited place...