Electrical Components

Two words...Bill Gates.

Bill Gates is a business man

So was Edison.

and Einstein was no more of an engineer than Stephen Hawking.

money makers are business man... while engineers ?? always spending money to do their project(s)..

Maybe we should stop whinging...

Ok the young pretty girls want the rock god, bad boy etc...

But by the time they grow up a bit they are smart enough to realise that wasters are not a sound proposition and the engineer who, ok may be a bit quiet on the outside..but can DO Stuff and mend things and make stuff and cares about stuff is a better bet for raising a family.

Anyhow I found mine... or maybe she snapped me up when she was good and ready.

Del

itz fine by me.

One man's recognition is another man's blame.

Ask: When the poo hits the fan, am i invisible enough?

Its better to have someone that performs instead of produces...EVERYTIME!

phoenix911

Not strictly true: The actor's product is his movie, the athlete's product is superior performance in a televised event. The difference is that the actor or athlete is directly associated with his product; This is why Bill Gates and Steve Jobs and the others mentioned are famous.

I was instrumental in developing the precursor to the PAC-3 missile defense system and other critical missile programs, but noone but the people originally involved know what I did. If my name were directly tied to the product, I would be famous. Engineering doesn't work that way. So I am not even famous on my current program. We are only as good as what we are currently doing. Such is life as an engineer.

Guest,

I disagree,

any project that has worth or value, it has to perform, producing means nothing.

Producing something that does not perform has no meaning except loss and a bad experience, (Which can have value if looked upon it as a abstract)

One of many examples is this link;

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/a-12.htm

I can elaborate and discuss this more it.

bhankiii,

I completely agree with you. Actors, athletes and others are their own product. They have to 'sell' their image to the public to create demand for people to want to see them in upcoming movies. The more famous an actor is, the more likely they are to get good role offers and higher pay.

Engineers are rarely connected by image/name to their products. I have never heard someone say, "I wonder what engineer designed this product"; but I always hear "who is in this film?"

Theory: The question 'would you rather be rich or famous?' may have a little pull in this situation. Perhaps most engineers would rather be rich than to be famous, hence engineers being 'invisible' because they don't have the genuine desire to be famous. I believe it all depends on what they instinctively desire, riches or fame. People who want riches more than fame may possibly choose the career path of an engineers (I am not saying that engineers are filthy rich, but they are smart with the money they make).

So far in my limited experience, I have noticed that I was invisible to the world until something broke or went wrong. then they would come wining to me. I would fix it, they would say thank you, pay me a paultry sum and move on. I enjoy my privacy and things that don't just break. Who cares about the spotlight? We get paid better for the work we do, than so many others. I take the invisibility.

Because engineers are far more intelligent than politicians, doctors, and lawyers.

smoke and mirrors?

Technology overshadows the Tech behind it. It is a simple matter of distraction refraction...

HC

oops, forgot to log in

Because they are too smart to want the spotlight!

Reading from these comments, I am lead to believe that engineers have studied this issue and are too smart to want to be in the limelight. They recognize it for what it is: a sham.

I'm not sure all engineers are invisible and certainly at the beginning of the industrial revolution they weren't. Brunel, Edison, Bell - all these guys were very highly regarded in their time as well as in history. You get a few today. Usually because their inventions make such an impact on society.

For most of us things are a lot more humdrum. But then again our "peers" - the marketing wonks and sales types, not to mention the vast number of "upper" management - are no more "rock stars" than the engineers. They ARE a lot better at promoting themselves.

Engineers expect the facts to speak for themselves. Unfortunately they do not....

They ARE a lot better at promoting themselves..

Literally in some cases...

I think it stinks to remain behind the scenes. I see my product on the market and thanks to the uprise on web blogs I can view people sharing their opinions. When PR sends out a press release and I see all the hype it indeed goes straight to my head. It feels awesome! ..but when I brag to my friends that I'm the mastermind, they are like "yeah right!" I think corporate marketing just doesn't want such cool products to be associated with a dork like myself?

Also, who doesn't unleash their full potential because they know they will not be rewarded for it?

Most of us accept a job for a salary. That salary will increase the same amount every year regardless if we meet our goals or exceed them. If we do create that "perfect" win for the company we might receive an annual bonus. However, the corporate execs will also receive bonuses. Bonuses equal to what we would expect to make in a decade. Simply put, it's unfair!

I have had the occasion that I came up with something really awesome for the company and just about lost all credit for it. My invention made a real change in one of our product lines. When the Vice President came down asking whose idea it was, my marketing manager took the credit. (a**hole) Anyway, my head engineer was good enough to stick up for me in a meeting, gave me full credit and made sure to say that the marketing guy was an idiot. The only time I would ever want the spotlight is when someone else tries to take my credit.

Yeh every time the guy come and gives me my pay slip I say...

'I see I've got the usual bonus..' (e.g. Zero)....and he laughs...

that's funny until the dork of a CEO banks enough money in one year for any of us to retire on. Face it, there is no manager worth $14M a year. And in spite of all the marketing hoopla and personality cults there are very few Bill Gates or Jack Welch types in the world. Most are simply overpaid. At the expense of the shareholders and the engineers.

Who let all these cats in?

I heard on the radio yesterday that the average tenure of a CEO these days is 3 years.

Same question had been bugging me throughout my life. When all other professionals are recognised why not Engineers?. Is it that they have greasy hands after working on shop? or tired face with sweat dropping from our foreheads?.Are we ugly to be projected?. I think we have very poor PR, we don't shout over roof tops about our achievements.We are silent workers never bothered about public recognition. But now I think we should show the world about our talent and get recognition. Suresh Sharma.

the irony of your guest status humors me

Yes my intentions were the same to make my reply humorous. It is fate of Engineers working on the Shop Floor not the Designers like you who sit in air conditioned office. Suresh Sharma.

It's without a doubt that you have absolutely no idea of what you speak.

___________________________________________

secondly. One of the key reasons engineers are invisible is because they are just that.

While I would definitely consider myself an engineer, I like many of us here would also consider myself a variety of other titles where we hold a better than average level of competence.

It terms of engineering as a specific task... That is by and large the job of an engineer. To make an idea go from paper to reality. Not surprisingly, there are a large number of people who are competent and willing to do this specific job.

Engineers are experts at dealing with practical knowledge and their pay will often reflect this. Engineers are just one of the links in a proverbial chain that brings a new idea to market.

Within companies there are people who would fall in the category of designer.. or product developer or r&d department.. whatever.. the title of any of these people is of absolutely no importance. The only thing that matters is an individuals skill set and exactly what they are able to do with it.

To lump engineers into the same group of 'famous' people mentioned above is representative of the arrogance that is so often the Achilles heel within the corporate world and modern society.

Franklin, Edison, DaVinci, Teslsa... The list goes on. These people were engineers, artists, inventors, developers, designers, marketing professionals.. all of the above and more. If they were any less, you wouldn't ever had heard their names.

The shop floor draftsman may have the mind of Galileo, but as long as he is working a mouse for a living, he will never progress beyond that point... and click..

Beyond that, there are few engineers that could actually pass for brilliant. It's like asking why aren't products from the dollar store priced higher than a dollar?

Artist Engineers? well you have included everyone in profession of Engineers.

You are an idiot who doesn't know what is the topic. Tesla for instance was pure engineer/inventor. Edison was stupid inventor who stole other's people work, like buying a light bulb patent from the Canadian inventor and selling the idea under his own, etc.

However, the central problem today is that companies enslave engineer's brain as the intellectual property and hide inventor/engineer name. For instance you can't publish your invention under your name. Instead you must put your boss' name in front of yours etc. If you want to patent your idea your company gets dividends. For me this practice of western companies is a crime. Even more, I have heard two rumors (within two top software company), that when they invented new software the engineers/inventors were fired after finishing the development. This are the causes why engineers are not famous. In western society engineers are literally enslaved by managers who's sole role is to enslave them.

I apologize for the 'general' notions..

people are screwed in every conceivable position.. management included...

I once had to fire a person on Christmas eve? did that make me evil?

no

It was an order form above. I left that company.

a while back I took a cut in pay and lifestyle... not a big one when your already near the bottom..

I decided to work on my own and control the fate of my designs .. at my cost.. most anyone else is free to do the same.

If an engineer does not know this standard company arrangement going in.. who's to blame? the company is taking a huge financial risk on what is usually a looser design..

if you are a good engineer and being underpaid.. poorly treated or fired... who's to blame?

speak up.. quit.. ..just don't sabatoge.. the company will go down the tubes without you anyhow.. right? it had better..

if not.. why the fuss?

Edison was not a complete chump

JE in Chicago

your comment,

Engineers are experts at dealing with practical knowledge and their pay will often reflect this. Engineers are just one of the links in a proverbial chain that brings a new idea to market.

Practical Knowledge, pay reflecting this, please, you are using way to wide a paint brush here,

You may be too isolated from other engineers

hmmm ... putting thinking cap on ..... may be because most engineers don't like sales?

or we don't have the time for them because we are busy enjoying working in designing..

and because most businesses revolve around sales ..... and most CEOs come from a marketing background ... ????

But I say ... when they sell something who is going to design it and make it ???

ahhh ... it should be 50-50 importance ratio. (50% to market and sell the product and 50% to design it and make it ) ...

Engineer's don't speak of there works, that's why they are invisible.

Edison, Einstein were known later...

Its because there works SPEAKS.

Engineers aren't the only invisible ones. Most physicians are invisible (with a few notable exceptions). All nurses are invisible. The guy driving the garbage truck is invisible. What about the grocery store owner (again, with a few exceptions)? I guess I could keep going on about this. It would appear to me that one's value to society is inversely proportional to one's fame- we should be BRAGGING about being invisible...

Yeah all those so called actors and politicians seems to be absolutely worthless, especially the ones in the media eye.

Any long time engineer will tell you that corporate culture elevates salesman above engineers, who, ultimately are responsible for the companies existence. There are multiple reasons for this, but the prime one is probably that the company directors and managers are rarely engineers, don't understand engineers, and relate far more readily to the assumption that 'sales makes the company succesful' rather than reality that sales don't exist without product. There is major hype surrounding movies, sports and other events. there are no similar things that highlight engineers role to the public, except geeky design contests in dedicated magazines. Robot wars was a short lived TV success, inventor shows are often geared towards highlighting the oddball nature of engineers. I speak from bitter experience here.

Where is the reality TV show pitting lone engineers against a daunting design or problem solving task for a prize of megabucks? You find houses full of idiots, the morbidly obese, cooks, hairdressers, aspiring designers, match stick thin 'models', unfaithful spouses, morons who eat sludge for a few bucks, people on a prolonged holiday, and a whole variety of other average people the centre of hype in the name of entertainment, as well as doctors, paramedics, surf lifesavers, the odd hairy chested biker and an occasional hospital patient, but never anything high tech.

Engneers often seem happy to accept a submissive role, often acting as if they are just grateful someone has hired them. There are a lot of engineers out there perhaps who should be, the same as there are a lot of mediocre actors and athletes, but there are also 'stars' (no I don't include myself) who should wield their expertise like the valuable tool it is and demand both recognition and recompense.

Part of the problem though is that engineering, even electronic engneering, is so diverse in nature, even actors are often compartmentalised as character actors, leading ladies, leading men, dramatic, etc, there are simply too many skill areas in electronics to achieve the same depth of understanding by the public of the skills involved.

Finally it is vitally important to the future of high tech that this situation change. New engineers have been staying away in droves, creating a global shortage of engineers, this will only get worse. The profession is seen as boring, under rated, under paid, and no longer a desirable career choice. so called IT pays much higher, has higher profile and requires far lss effort. It is odd than in the midst of a global shortage that engineers are still largely underpaid compared to other professions requiring similar skill levels. How often does a GP for example have to retrain, how many other professions have to constantly attend both formal training and self training to keep themselves up to speed in their chosen field.

This is a dying profession placed in jeopardy by the political apathy of its participants

I would like to point out that, here on CR4, a medium of expression for engineers, one finds some "Super Stars" who not only are obvious leaders in their fields, but willing to share freely with their peers and with others aspiring to greater heights of achievement- some of them even "famous" within our community (I would list my favorites here, but that would probably cause some hurt feelings for those I overlooked). Reading threads here is proof that engineering is anything but boring, and political apathy is not a fair appraisal of most of us, nor do we shy from controversy. Most of all, it is rather obvious that our participants are having a whole lot of fun, while actually adding significant value to the environment (I should start tracking how many times I have found important leads to solutions to technical issues I have been addressing...).

The fact that the image projected on this site is not generally available to the public is not the fault of engineers. Give us a soapbox, and we will shout our accomplishments to the world, given time off from the real work of solving other people's problems...

That is the whole point. I inhabit several other groups, but they tend to be insular like this. Who but fellow engineers comes here? Most groups are interspersed with the usual mix of humour, insight, sniping etc. Engineers who participate actively in these groups obviously wouldn't find engineering boring, but most none engineers would find the stuff we are excited by mind numbingly boring.

By political apathy I refer more to the politics of business and the working environment, not the politics of running a country. In nearly forty years in this business I have found very few engineers who were actively interested in these areas, who were prepared to go out and fight the system. Most of the few who were, were generally not the brightest of engineers. You may not shy from controversy, but this is a community of, mostly, like minded people, hence most of the controversy tends to be not so controversial after all.

This is the problem, and even your reply highlights it. Most half decent engineers have too much fun, and enjoy what they are doing so much they almost want to be taken advantage of: rather that than they have their toys and playroom taken away from them

Exactly, you don't see it as a problem, nor do i, nor do most engineers. I feel the same way usually. "What a sneaky bugger i am, having all this fun and getting paid for it". (sometimes) That is why we are underpaid, underappreciated, and why there are fewer and fewer people going into engineering. They don't see where the fun is!

My old man built our first TV from an old radar CRT, hand winding the coils, and some scrap ex-RAF electronics. To me the Lone Ranger will always be green. (I was 4 then). I got into it when I was 9, On saturday mornings I'd often ride 30 miles into town and back on my bike to buy a couple of ferrite cored inductors, or a handful of carbon resistors. I've loved electronics ever since, but I never did get the hang of being a "businessman".

I think it must be an engineering thing, avoiding the limelight, I hate it too, but part of that might be the root problem. Once the spotlight shines on you you are expected to perform, not for your pleasure, but for the pleasure of others, and like other magicians we like to guard our delusions closely

Cheers

Al

This topic was covered in some great detail by embedded.com a few years ago. See http://www.embedded.com/columns/esdeic/16100906 and some responses at http://www.embedded.com/columns/embeddedpulse/16700228.

yes may be if the Engineers put a steep price on their inventions or on their projects, the world can take a note of their valuable contribution. Otherwise the same trend will only continue.

Is it because we aren't appreciated or because we choose to stay out of the limelight? I personally think it is both. We live in a glamorous, fake society. We have our new gadgets, appliances and tools each year and think that they are just natural evolutions and don't realize that smart men and women made those things possible through their intelligence, work ethic and ingenuity. These people are the ones that are the motor(s) of the world. Once there is a shortage of intelligence or those who do this work choose to not do it for everyone's benefit then engineers will get noticed. Maybe that will equate to better salaries and praise but more than likely it will only constitute more blame.

People know of Edison and Einstein but one person who I find is consistently not acknowledged is Nikola Tesla. I was appauled when I mentioned his name and my wife had no idea who he was and what he was responsible for, but of course she knows who the final 5 contestants of every American Idol were.

We are a society that praises worthlessness, so I guess the fact that we are not praised all that much should really be a compliment.

Thomas Edison was the Bill Gates of his day. Both are and will be well known. But who invented the light bulb or the operating system? Those guys were the bosses who also had others working underneath them. They started out getting their hands dirty themselves but were also entrepreneurs who built empires. But who were the engineers that worked for Edison or Gates that did so much of the grunt work? Pretty much, no one knows. The other thing is that Edison and Gates created the first or by far the most successful widget of their kind, as history tells us. Yet no one uses the carbon filament light that Edison invented. So who created the far superior tungsten-filament incandescent light that has been the world-wide work-horse for the last 100 years? Or the fluorescent light, or "compact-fluorescents" like we are all putting into our houses today, or even the white LED? These were all done by people or small teams of people that yet again, publicly no one knows who. Perhaps in part because those people were all part of bigger entities. In general, ya don't get famous or rich by working for someone else.

Most doctors and lawyers are pretty much oblivious, as are most actors and athletes. Sporting events, movies, and politics are public events by design. Where is the politician who can't stay in the limelight? Retired. BTW, who invented the limelight so long before Edison made a practical electric one? By now, most people don't even know that there was such a thing. --Steve Hodges

Demonstrate not explicate.

Engineers like to solve problems, not make them. To be an Edison you have to make problems, like Edison did by promising a product before it was fully developed (a reliable light bulb that would last 100 hours or more). Most engineers shy away from making claims about future developments before they know how to achieve their claim.

That makes them conservative by nature. Most famous people are "A" type personalities. Type "A" personalities do not have the patience to concentrate on long drawn out problems. Secondly, the world of business is filled with mean bully types which are accustom to walking all over everyone else in order to achieve their goals and wealth despite the effects on those around them. This comes under the heading of "everyone for themselves".

Unfortunately, if you want to play in the politics of the business you have to become a proficient liar to survive. That happens to rub against the grain of engineers because their education is based on proofs and truths. Businessmen become successful by looking out for #1. The engineer is just a tool.......to be used and put back in its place!

The reason that Thomas Edison became so famous is that he started out by inventing and then had to do his own marketing. He gradually became a businessman but his most important attribute was his curiosity. Nikola Tesla was a gifted but eccentric visionary. It was his employer, George Westinghouse that deserves the credit for wining the AC vs DC contest. George Westinghouse could not have accomplished what he did without Nikola Tesla. Westinghouse died a millionaire, Tesla died a pauper. Then again, Tesla spent all of his money working on a problem on which he could not let go. Another sad attribute of engineers......

Yes.The creater is always behind the screen in most of the graet works.

Just look at the world as it is.

The creater can be identified if the looker is identical to the creater.

God is invisible, but life an universe is visible

Jaime Soto Figueroa

If all engineers are so great, then how come the keyhole screw mounts on the backs of power strips and other things aren't made to accept the good ole drywall/all purpose screw!?!? ...

It really pisses me off to see those little booger screw keyholes..

seriously.. why? Why! WHY!?

In 2000, we elected a US president who actively cultivated an "average guy" persona. Bush has done his best to portray himself an "average guy" just like everyone else - no smarter, no dumber. The 2004 election was all about NASCAR dads. While not all NASCAR fans are dumb the dumb ones were the target.

Consider that intellectuals in the US have a bad name for being snooty and unrealistic. It is often considered snobish to know philosophy, arts, etc. in greater depth than what TV provides.

Under these circumstances even most college graduates want flashy jobs not intellectual positions. As a culture, we are absorbed with TV, cult of personality, and things we believe we can easily understand. Who wants a president that plays chess? We might feel a little stupid for not knowing how ourselves. Who wants to hear about an engineer who had to solve a dozen physics puzzles related to physics most people have never heard of? It might remind us that we chose to watch TV instead of making ourselves smarter, better people.