I wonder how much the composition of gas has changed from then and now?

If modern gasoline would work better?

This does possibly answer my questions I've been pestering the tribologist (my Dad) with. Will super heating the fuel under pressure so it doesn't boil/phase change, then inject it, increase the vaporization and thus the complete burn for improved efficiency?

Brad

Brad,

Start at www.panaceauniversity.org and look for the patent section - they list many high mileage patents that have EXPIRED. ( Still not in your car )

If you are interested the SAE paper listing the high mileage patents ( written by a Shell engineer ) is available at some University Engineering Libraries.

Then if you are looking for QUICK improvements look at www.alt-nrg.org

for a good safe hydrogen system -

and google the Water Fuel Museum -

Keep Thinking and Testing

rcb

Thanks for the links, Might get some good ideas.

Brad

From the "Water Fuel Museum"? I think the good ideas are more likely to come from...

I remember reading about the Shell Mileage runs in, I think it was, Popular Science or Popular Mechanix when I was a kid.

Remember EnviroMan,

come from HS and I like ,picked 15 gallons of morels last year.

Much like the "odd man out" inspiration is a quantity of random patterns coming together, many times unrelated to the problem at hand.

Yes parts will stink, but many tons of rock must be sifted to find a diamond even in kimberlite.

My Cousin came up with a brilliant idea for a variable automotive transmission, I'm trying to modify it to get rid of 95% of the engine/tranny both and improve efficiency. Time will tell. Who would expect a Powerline engineer to have a great tranny design. He figured out the system but was trying to over complicate the mechanics. I made some suggestions and now we start testing concepts. So far things look very good. He still does not completely grasp my designs implications but he is starting to.

Brad

UV - My prototype engine should be running about December - if you are willing to talk about power systems a bit - email me at tranny@BondRotary.com

( MMMorels ) :)

I used to be a Puget Sound Mycologist myself -

rcb

Would you like to see a car that RAN ON WATER - that is where you can -

Read the patents at PanaceaUniversity.org ( you do read patents don't you )

When you want to know what is REAL - thoughtfully read the patents.

rcb

Hey fellows, I am the owner of the fiat. Any questions? Ken

Some pictures and diagrams would be nice.

I have a design I'm working on that uses similar tech (maybe) but 100 mpg is more the goal. So any info is very appreciated. Also do we know things like HP etc?

Always curious about new(old) tech.

Brad

I have the car. The car is rough as you can sorta see in the picture. I have not made it run yet. There is more to do before so. The car didn't have but about 25 horsepower when it was run. Incidentally, everyone wants to believe this car was a vapor car. This car, like the opel, were both carb'd vehicles. There was no vapor carb like patents of inventions from the past suggest. Secret to high mileage was probly 60% driving speed technique and 40% mechanical. Those are guesses because I really wasn't there when the car was being tested. But, information I have read points to if the driving technique was not used, mileage would have been about 60% less. Don't take these numbers as gospel. If people will look at the 59 opel pictures, they will see the carb is in place. There is mileage benefit in downsizing the carb. These two vehicles used small carbs. Neither cars were road worthy for routine everyday use. They were used to prove a point that maximum fuel economy could be achieved through testing. And also, the Marathons they run in were because someone said back in 1939 "I can make a car get better mileage than you". Then the Shell engineers went to work. Those marathons are still going on. They are called Eco-Marathons. Only problem, they changed the vehicle qualifications after the 1959 Opel won. The body designs and shapes changed to the pocket rocket land torpedo style. Nothing we really want to ride around in. One more thing, the year the 59 Opel won, the fiat achieved 304 tonmpg. All the vehicle's weight and mileage were plugged into a formula where all the mileages would be on equal ground. So, just because the fiat was small, it didn't, by formula, have an advantage over the larger vehicles.

In a world where performance and power are sought after so strongly, why all the gripe on the cost of fuel? When the masses want economy, sales will turn to those vehicles.

vaporguy

I was not thinking it was a Vapor car, a small carb does increase Venturi velocity and should cause smaller fuel droplets that have higher surface to volume ratios. My design uses nether.

Was your engine over insulated like the Opel? And thanks for the feed back. I read the article a while back and had to re read it. Other than the one picture I haven't seen anything else.

Thanks

Brad

This is the picture of the carb connected to the intake. The inlet air was heated going to the carb. No accelerator pump. Is a Cushman scooter type of carb.

Thanks again Vaporguy,

So much for cool dense air charge. The fuel was vaporized by the hot air induction that cooled the air some.

Looks like an Aluminum head with an internal plenum chamber on a cast iron block. I like the copper intake tube. Looks like the lubrication system is stock.

Much appreciated

Brad

Stock 1958 fiat 4 cylinder engine. I pulled the head and had the valves cleaned up. The compression was bumped up from 7.5 to 8.8 by shaving the head. Air was preheated before the carb.

Vaporguy

Hi Vaporguy,

Can you tell us about the hot air heating system? Is the air intake heated by the exhaust manifold or the hot water from the radiator? Details would be nice.

Thanks,

Ken S

Hello Ken S. The pics I posted in this thread represent the car as I received it when I bought it. It took a while to find out but the car was set up different than those pics for the original competitions in Illinois. Please check out my website to learn more about the car. www.59fiattestcar.webs.com The original setup was with a ford heater core with engine coolant circulated through the core and the intake air drawn through the core. The engine was wrapped with insulation and the exhaust pipe was included in that wrapping to keep the engine warm. This setup, similar to the 59 Opel, neither were vapor cars. They were basically hot air cars. The Opel was a little more advanced with it's intake design.

Thank you for asking. I am restoring the car to as close condition to the original setup I can get.

Vaporguy

www.shellmpgcar.com

Fiat website.

http://www.59fiattestcar.webs.com

New website www.shellmpgcar.com .

www.59fiattestcar.com is no longer used.

Vaporguy