‘Shade Balls’ Used to Conserve Water in California

Yap, I agree. AMR of 1000W/m²

Also, blocking the oxygen diffusing surface and covering the photic zones will have impact on bacterial activity. Any loads of organic material from upstream supply will be have an anaerobic bacterial end-products -so undesirable like methane.--Fredskis concern on previous thread.

Suggest that you are misinformed.

The water is chlorinated.

"Those simple 4-inch, black plastic balls float on top of the 175-acre reservoir, blocking much of the sunlight from reaching the water's surface, the DWP said.

This protects from chemical reactions that may cause algae blooms and other environmental exposures, said Richard Harasick, the DWP's director of water operations.

The balls also cut the amount of water lost to evaporation by about 300 million gallons annually.

The half-pound balls, each weighted with eight ounces of water, are heavy enough to prevent much sloshing around when the wind blows, he said."

What are shade balls and how they help save Los Angeles' water

Perhaps a little searching is in order AGAIN.

It's tough to drink

Lyn, you are correct! We discussed this at our Town Council meeting around a year ago and the black balls do exactly as you say. 300M gallons saved is 1,315 acre-feet or water for 5,260 homes (annual usage) - that's a lot of water!

why not just grow azolla or duckweed on the pond and feed the product to cattle or fish?

I think the reservoir is made of concrete. There are not cattle nearby and I don't think there are many fish in the reservoir.

Yes it is concrete lined. It is not intended to grow food, or bacteria. It's a water tank.

Of course an infestation of Azolla is possible, since it grows so quickly - my assumption is that is uses water to grow, but I could be wrong. So, our drinking water is used to grow the Azolla, then we find out that our water supply is decreasing, so we now need to find a way to kill the Azolla - or if we simply feel that it's an infestation and we need to stop it. http://ucanr.edu/blogs/blogcore/postdetail.cfm?postnum=4402

Lucky for the DWP that we're here to help. We just need to put weevils out to kill the Azolla. Though I don't know what we'll do with all those weevils ... http://www.azollacontrol.com/default.aspx?site=214&page=4170

OR, we could just use those little black balls ...

In normal countries, they use azolla to harvest phosphate out of the water. Remove the azolla and compost it. That way fish can live and there are fewer algal blooms. You could use azolla on agricultural land as an organic fertilizer. Every plastic I have ever heard of uses plasticizers to keep them from being too brittle. And the plasticizers tend to act like female hormones. I don't know if that is a good thing in your water or not. You tell me.

"Every plastic I have ever heard of uses plasticizers"

You are sadly misinformed!

I'm not even going to try to correct your misconceptions.

Do some research before making statements you cannot support.

I don't think LA is considered a "normal" anything!

Also, our concrete reservoir wasn't designed to be a place for fish or plants to live - it's an open storage tank for our drinking water. And if it overflows from an El Nino storm, or if a bird takes some azolla and drops it in someone's water feature or swimming pool, we just can't have azolla spreading throughout the neighborhood - the DWP would get sued!

Here in LA, PVC pipe can and is used in potable water systems. Also, PEX is being used in many new and remodel jobs.

Since the people in LA are okay with it, then I don't think you have much argument with black balls in the water supply.

"Every plastic I have ever heard of uses plasticizers to keep them from being too brittle."

Nope, only a very few resins use placticizers. most of those are thermoSET resins, not thermoPLASTIC resins.

"And the plasticizers tend to act like female hormones."

Only in the way that green wood acts as a gasoline bomb. The effect is so small, the actual tests were feeding the mice with such high doses that the rodents were in danger of malnutrision before there were noticible effects. A human would need to eat something like half their body weight in 'soft vinyl' every day to get an equivalent dose.

"I don't know if that is a good thing in your water or not."

For the amount that MAY leach out from the balls, If they contain it at all, it would be at a level that I would not be concerned with. By the way, do you know how much Lead, Mercury, and Arsenic is in the drinking water in British Columbia? Probably a little more than there are 'plasticizers' in that CA water tank.

"You tell me."

Consider yourself told.

I think GT does not care one iota about valid data or respected research. Only natural treatments like giardia or cryptosporidium will do. Anyone for some hemlock tea. It's all natural.

Eh, it's been one of those days for me here, and I saw some 'low-hanging fruit' that I could line-item responses to.

Even if he ignores what I said, I felt a lot better after saying it.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I did not even search for this link, totally unconnected to this thread. Someone I don't know well posted it in a random feed today. Low hanging fruit, indeed. http://discardstudies.com/2015/08/16/las-shade-balls-the-ecological-costs-of-plastics-in-water/

Let's look at that article. It lists eight concerns about the Shade balls:

Concern #1: Plastics leach chemicals into the water.

"While the exact composition of the HDPE used in the Shade Balls hasn't been released, HDPE is a fairly safe plastic."

Drop the weasel work 'fairly,' and that statement is true. HDPE is used to make milk jugs, some plastic crates, and some play-time balls. It's a strong, durable plastic that, when severely abused, deforms instead of shattering, and when it Does break, it produces no sharp edges.

"The black additive is carbon black, which isn't supposed to be harmful when it leaches, which is great."

'Carbon Black' is pure carbon, basically charcoal dust, used as a pigment. If it escapes into the environment, it will most likely get intermingled with the soil or water, where a plant will take it in as a nutrient (all life on Earth is carbon-based, remember?) or it will end up drifting through the air as dust until it either encounters a fire, which will oxidize it into CO₂ (which a plant will absorb as part of photosynthesis) or it will be 'driven down' into the soil/water by a passing shower. Note again the weasel words 'supposed to be.' Remove those words and the sentence becomes true.

"Yet even with this precaution, most plastics leach endocrine disrupting chemicals that interfere with animal and human hormone systems (Yang 2011). "

Hoo boy, where to start with this one:

1. It is not MOST plastics leach 'endocrine disruptors,' it is a FEW, and HTPE is not one of them.
2. 'Endocrine disruptors,' require large doses to interfere with the Endocrine system, and you are unlikely to reach that level unless you are doing something like injecting them directly into a vein.

"Some endocrine disruptors, like bisphenol A (BPA), break down in water after a few weeks or months. Some don't."

BPA is not used in the making of HDPE products, so mentioning it at all here is just summoning a 'boogyman' to scare the weak-minded.

Concern #2: Plastics- You know what? I just don't care about this article anymore. The author is spinning everything into propaganda and fear-mongering. Why should I waste any more time on it. It's like reading the latest excuses Republicans are using to try and 'defund' Social Security, or their 230th attempt to bring up impeachment charges against Obama, or their 5,287th attempt to 'kill' Obamacare (Which is little more than a national implementation of the State level RomneyCare, championed by GOP member, Mitt Romney). It's written to stir up emotions, not inform rationally, and I would rather work with The Cold Equations than burn myself out in a Heated Argument over half-truths and weasel words.

"Low Hanging Fruit" indeed, so low it seems to have started to rot from contact with the soil.

Gaia,

I read your posts and I've come to the conclusion that you're not an expert in this field. I don't understand why you feel the need to "act" like a expert AND even after many very intelligent people have tried to correct you, you still argue.

I don't want to argue with you, but I do feel that a word of advice may be very helpful to you. When you have made a mistake, the best thing is to acknowledge it as soon as possible, apologize and move forward.

There's nothing more that should be said on this matter.

Thank you.

Why on earth do you try so hard to shut people up? Why on earth do they have a lake of chlorinated water? It already has bromine in it, "heck, lets add chlorine too!" Isn't the idea to put the chlorine in just before it goes into the pipes to the end users, not in the flipping lake? "Heck, lets cover the lake with plastic balls!" "$12,million for one lake, lets cover ALL our lakes!" And make some real money! Spending millions of dollars on black balls to cover lakes IS probably a great way of giving and getting backhanders. I mean, who really pays? Not exactly something a consumer of water would want to pay for, is it? "Melting balls in the hot sun", "I taste the plastic so I let the water run" Has anyone looked into the politics of all this? Cos it smells stinky. And "HECK! Why don't we change the standards for reporting chemical exposure while we are at it?" I guess that is the next step, because now the politicians with the wads of notes in their pockets wants to be safe too and they will push for lax standards. It is cool how the world works, isn't it? Anybody want to independently test the balls and see how they are actually working? And the water too. http://www.ilsi.org/Europe/Documents/Koster.pdf

It is not a lake it is a man made reservoir.

I drive by the reservoir at least once a week. It's right before the 5/405 split. I remember seeing the reservoir partly black for a while and now it's all black. Looks like a dark water lake from the freeway.

I just took a look at it on Google Earth. It's only about 60% filled (at the time the picture was taken) and I don't know if it's the software, but when I zoomed in very tight, I could see round dark objects - I doubt they could get that much resolution from a satellite, so my assumption is that it's the software doing some sort of smoothing or to get the proper color.

Why not just throw all those left-over white packing "peanuts" on the water?

I imagine that the color and concept has been tested before.

The balls completely shade the water from the sun, reducing chlorine consumption that occurs in uncovered water (my swimming pool for example).

Also the dramatic reduction in exposed surface area reduces evaporation by a huge amount.

My guess is that cost ruled out silver coated balls.

I guess that we will have to wait until someone actually runs the "before" and "after" calculations on the evapotranspiration of the reservoir?

Living here in Las Vegas and watching the level of Lake Mead is one thing that concerns us here in the valley.

No, I'm not one of those crazy the lake is evaporating and we're all going to die people.

What most people don't realize is that the water is being held back at Lake Powell because Lake Powell is deep and thin while Lake Mead is a wide expanse that evaporates more water in a day than all of the Las Vegas Valley users consume in a day!

The politicians are playing head games with the people that receive their water from Lake Mead. Do we need to conserve water?

YES. But don't tell me a lie, stating that Lake Mead is running out of water. It's not(1). It's being held back to prevent the astounding amount of evaporation that occurs on Lake Mead.

(1) Yes, Lake Mead is at the lowest level we have seen since the dam was built and the developers are still building thousands of houses and other properties. The politicians are screaming for water conservation from everyone but the developers that are lining the politicians pockets with CASH CASH CASH!

I predict, it would be higher

Your prediction will prove as worthwhile and your usual questions. 0

Haha to that!!! Funny lyn

Plastics deteriorate with sunlight and time and it will be diffuse in the reservoir later on. Worse case in the presence of chlorine. It should bot be advised to drink. Plastics are believed to be carcinogen

Well hang on to your shorts because I am guessing that as soon as the yellow mining plume hits Powell they will start releasing water to Mead in an effort to dilute the heavy metals and arsenic as much as possible.

The balls were used to reduce the bromate problem and reduce algae bloom. Not to sure how reflective the surface of the water is. So the same amount of energy could be absorb either way. The balls just increased the surface area for cooling though.

it will retard evaporation not enhance it

I would still like to see the temperature readings from the before and after numbers.

If it does what it's intended to do and reduces evaporation then it is a success!

evaporation is more about area than temp. so sure the color will have an impact on temp but the surface area is greatly reduced so the evaporation is far less

Surrounding humidity I'd add up to that. The dryer the air, more evaporation will happen, also at lower pressure.

I was wondering about this, too. I suspect the plastic used in these shade balls is the same material as the UV stabilized plastic of tie wraps. Preventing plastic breakdown is probably a bigger concern than the light absorption. Besides, I don't think these balls will absorb much if any more light than the uncovered water itself. Reducing the water air surface area is probably where most of the savings actually happens.

The shade balls of Los Angeles are 4 inches in diameter, hollow, polyethylene orbs made by XavierC, of Glendora, Calif.; Artisan Screen Process, of Azuza, Calif.; and Orange Products, of Allentown, Penn.

Who's Behind the 96 Million 'Shade Balls' - Bloomberg

PE was my guess, too. Mostly inert, plentiful, recyclable, easy to mold, UV resistant if UV additives are added.

what kind of paint was used in balls,will it conduct heat from upper surface to bottom and warm the water.

It's a UV coating to keep the sun from deteriorating the plastic. The balls are hollow and a small amount of water is placed in side to keep them from blowing away.

Remember that plastic is not a good conductor of heat and with the balls filled with air, they say it won't heat up the water or increase evaporation.

I moved to my home in 2011 and since then I've been driving by the Granada Hills reservoir quite frequently. I've seen it change from a small area of dark to now fully covered. At first, I thought it was a tarp like cover. At our Town Council meeting, we even discussed the covering, which is when I found out it's a bunch of plastic balls!

Temp is not the only factor on evaporation, for example movement and also subjection to air flow is important, so this might after all reduce evaporation despite the color (that may also be more reflective than we see when it comes to higher energy wavelengths of interest) but it will also have other effects like less O2 and other gases dilution etc. But I'm sure this is not a problem that enough disinfectants can't solve. (LOL) S.M.

Don't let your eyes fools you. The article says the balls are coated to reflect UV.

Just because the balls look black in the photo doesn't mean they are 'black' to UV (or infrared) light.

What happens if it floods? You know this started in June 2008...

First pouring of the balls....June 2008

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2008/06/water_water_everywhere.html

Can't you cover it with PV panels or floating farms.

Maybe your budget can afford PV panels...

PV or farm gives output while plastic balls do not.

That's actually nice to innovate something something like a compound(synthetic or organic) to cover the surface, inert to water and at the same time semiconductor in nature (act as pv cell)

Yah, right, Lyn should be blamed

My first thought was why balls and not blanket, as in pool blanket. Pool blankets have been around for a long time now and are easy to make and probably less per SqM than the balls. Then i realised that the method of application is significantly cheaper than wrestling a lot of blanket/s resulting in an overall cheaper cost.

I would give a GA if i could. Or should that be a GI (idea).

I am subscribed, but I do not have any really logical comments, just my personal thoughts, but it seems to be an interesting concept, that I would like to understand better, but surely, if it has been done since 2008, it must be a success? Surely?

Therefore we are not discussing anything new.....

The color foxed me for a moment too, but that seems to be well thought out with regard to heating, and I could well imagine that the heat is lost quicker due to convection/warmed air, rather than by evaporation of the surface.....lets face it, most plastics tend not to transfer heat that well, so the "bottom" of the ball will probably remain at water temperature, and the top will radiate any heat...

That's my maybe slightly "un-logical" thoughts on the subject....(which would appear to be simply some of many here!!)

Interesting blog!! Thanks.

Will the plastic balls not have any effect on the smell and chemical taste of water?. I feel that water will loose its natural taste.

Definitely, a polymer of hydro carbons seem not that safe with the heat of the sun and oxidation.

If it is not safe then how come local health dept. as allowed such experiment?.

Polyethylene is used world wide as potable water storage tanks and containers.

The remarks of Kulas are uninformed and incorrect in many ways.

True polyethylene and polypropylene, known as polyolefins are safe for water storage.

Polyolefin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would correct Kulas directly, but I never argue with fools, as bystanders may not be able to tell the difference.

Poly-ethylene deteriorates with chlorine. Here is a study of it.

And also this toxicity research using PE plastics.

Quite a nice commentary, I appreciate it. Thank you.

Nice to see you doing some research to support your perspective.

I read the abstracts and Wikepedia article you cite and find little to support your view.

Yes, all plastics will degrade. Depending on the degradation process encountered different chemicals will be formed as a plastic falls apart. Water is also the closest thing to a universal solvent that we know of. Thus the question should instead be a comparison of decay rates and byproducts produced of different materials decaying and not just that one decays. (Wikipedia)

The chlorine added to sanitize water will expedite the loss of a polymer's stabilizer. I cannot tell from just the abstract of this paper if this will lead to earlier plastic failure or if the downstream consumption of this stabilizer is a concern. This seems to be a red herring in this discussion for the reservoir will not have chlorinated water. Nonetheless this looks like an interesting tangent. (Elsevier) [If I get time I will review the complete paper at work.]

As for the "toxicity" of polyethylene on the pretty Chinese plant Brachystemma calcycinum, the abstract of this more than forty year old study does not provide a clear indication why the plants used in this study appear to not thrive on distilled water (and proscribed added nutrients) that was stored for an unknown(?) time in PE bottles. One of a number of other coincidences could have affected a batch of water. This might be properly addressed in the full article but it is not in the abstract. What makes this article suspect is the date of this paper. Forty years is more than enough time to validate or refute this result. Water in contact with PE is not widely known to be toxic to plants. If it was it certainly would not be a preferred plastic for agricultural use as a mulch material.

Unlike your forty year old Torrey Botanical Club abstract, the 2012 Springer link I offer is for the full paper on the use of PE as a mulch. Ironically the primary and significant drawback to PE mulch is that it does not naturally degrade. This opposes the supposition of your abstract.

I think the whole idea is nuts. So now you get the breakdown products of UV degraded plastic in the water. Well done. And black? Maximum absorption of light and heat. At some stage people in California have to come to terms with the water cycle and stop culverting fresh and waste water. You got to let it evaporate! Evaporation means cooler air where it evaporates, it lowers the dew point up in the sky, (cooler moister air is closer to the dew point) and it causes clouds which are useful for shade a bit further inland. And with the lower dew point, SHOCK! you might even get some rain! So the water you let evaporate both moves the tipping point and gets you over the tipping point. By preventing the evaporation of water, Californians are just enhancing their own desert climate and also extending the rate of the desert spread further inland. Plant some trees, make some deltas, and figure out what are good natural cloud seeds. Perhaps some sort of fungal spores? Trees in the amazon produce turpenes that condense on potassium salts that are released when fungi release their spores. (Natures 2 stage cloud seeding system for amazonia)! California might have one too, but someone has to go look for it and find out which parts humans have messed up. So, yeah, stopping desertification by stopping evaporation is a fools errand.

Geography lesson.

California, and Los Angeles where the reservoirs are located, is located next to a very large body of water.

The Pacific Ocean.

You should read the piece referenced by the OP before any further input.

"In 2007, testing by the L.A. Department of Water and Power found potentially dangerous levels ofbromate in the water of the Ivanhoe. Bromate is a suspected carcinogen,"

Enhanced evaporation and precipitation inland causes a low pressure area that sucks in the air from over the pacific. A coastal treed area is needed to get it started and then more trees inland as it develops. Otherwise, the ocean air just sits out there and all you get is a daily nightly sea breeze and land breeze cycle with not much airflow towards the land. Right now, there isn't enough evaporation to get this cycle started. Bromine in the water, why not biological control? Some life form that concentrates it? Put them in, grow them, net them and dump them with their bromine somewhere else. Less daft than stupid polystyrene balls in the water. You could probably even charge people for fishing them out if they are fish.

PolyETHYLENE, not polystyrene.

Big difference.

And, with a total surface area of 96 acres, these two cement lined "ponds" hardly qualify as weather generators.

Look at the sphere above. As we know, conduction and convection heat transfer is proportional to the contact surface areas. Increasing the numbers of sphere as in the case of throwing those balls on the reservoir, will definitely have greater contact area for heat transfer in the water or vice versa. That is if the balls would heat up. But you know what, an opposite phenomena might make these balls to cool despite that they are made black.. Increasing the number of balls, will increase roughness of irradiation to hit the surface. There must be an effect as whole, it could either be heating or cooling the water. I can not conclude yet, unless otherwise an actual test will be conducted.

A study of fractals would somewhat beneficial in this case

More trees inland means more watering - definitely not going to happen. Also, what type of trees do you recommend for summers where it gets to 115F at times? Cactus? We have those in the AV - they're called Yucca Trees! They're the trees that store water and they don't grow in thick forests.

I am not an expert on weather patterns, however you can say that I'm an experienced observer (from the fact that I've lived in many areas of Southern CA over the last 28 years). I know that valleys get hot from compression out here, while the higher elevation typically stays cooler. As you go further inland, the temperatures rise considerably and the air dries out. Also, each time you cross a mountain range (which normally follow the coastline), the temperature on the inland side is considerably warmer.

The Oxnard plain in an anomaly and the town of Camarillo sits relatively far inland (19 miles), but at less than 200 feet above sea level, the summer highs are typically in the low to mid 80's with plenty of sunshine - excellent weather! Irvine is about the same elevation, sits less than 8 miles from Corona del Mar, however it's usually in the 90's during the summer. Note that there is a short mountain range between Newport Beach and Irvine.

In fact, further south in Del Mar (inland side of the 5 freeway), it's about the same elevation as Irvine and Camarillo, it's only 2 miles to the beach and it has the same temperatures as Camarillo. There's no mountain range between this part of Del Mar and the ocean. Del Mar is about 160 miles south, so you'd think it would be warmer, but it isn't.

I don't think any amount of evaporation in the desert is going to cool the air much. If you really think so, you could become very wealthy buying land in the AV, then pump lots of sea water to a huge open area. Land is cheap when you get to the Kern County boarder and if cities like Lancaster and Palmdale had a cooler climate, the property value would skyrocket and you'd make a fortune.

I don't agree with your analysis for a few reasons.

1. Granada Hills is in the San Fernando Valley. The Sepulveda Pass connects the West side of LA to the Valley. Ocean air is filled with water and it does make it through the Sepulveda pass.

2. The reservoir is our drinking water. If we let it evaporate, then there will be less for households to use. Over 5,000 homes worth of water! And we're in the middle of a drought, so we need all the clean, potable water we can get.

3. Yes, black color does absorb heat, but think about what they've done. First off, they're made of plastic, which is not a good conductor of heat. Second, they're mostly just filled with air and a little water to keep them from blowing away. Air is a pretty good insulator - like in double pane windows.

4. The air temperature in Granada Hills is around 103f today. The evaporating air in a reservoir next to a freeway isn't going to help reduce the air temperature near any homes (they're a half mile or so away). The choice of an unnoticeable difference in temperature vs lost drinking water is a no brainer for us.

5. We get plenty of evaporation from people watering their lawns (which they're allowed to do only two times a week now), golf courses, swamp coolers and from swimming pools (they're still allowed). A small reservoir doesn't contribute that much evaporation.

6. Our sky is bright blue today - a beautiful color! You could try seeding it, but it's not going to do any good. No clouds in the sky - that's how it is most of the summer and we do like our cloudless skies.

7. Many think that our drought is part of a cyclical weather pattern. Others think it's from global warming. Maybe it's a combination of both? Either way, they say we're in for a mother of an El Nino this year. We sure do need it, but it would be better to get it spread out over a few years vs a huge downpour.

When I moved to CA, back in late 1987, we were in the middle of a drought. I remember Ventura and Santa Barbara county enforcing watering restricting and imposing a fine of restaurants that served water without the customer asking first. It was strange to come from a place were water was abundant! Then again, it was strange to be wearing shorts and going to the beach in December!

Silver would never work in LA. The reservoir is too close to the freeway and people would be pulling over to check themselves out.

Playing with nature is risky thing. Let nature take its own course. God knows what will be effects of strewing black plastic balls in the pond.

"Playing with nature" is certainly a risky thing but surrendering to nature can easily be more dangerous. More to my point here, surrendering to nature is the very antithesis of being an engineer. IMHO (and I think you will agree with me) a good engineer neither surrenders nor defies nature. A good engineer works with nature to achieve a goal beneficial to (some) people that nature neither intended nor abhorred. A good engineer also understands this is an iterative process, for nature never reveals everything to anyone.

But physicist just does things in the patterns of nature, otherwise it did not exist. A good engineer knows the limits, either he discovers the essential parameters and solution to chaos - he ain't telling. "Great Power goes great responsibility"-Peter Parker

Hi Red, I agree with you but this idea of filling pond with black plastic balls looks funny.

Thanks Fredski!

So the primary goal of these balls is to prevent light from reaching the water. Some how the light will produce a carcenogenic bromide in these reservoirs. I do not understand how light does this but I'll accept that it does. This is why the balls are black. Less light will reach the water.

A secondary benefit from these black balls will be the reduction in evaporation.

Is $12 000 000 a bit steep to cover a reservoir? (I think that is the quoted figure for the black balls). Would it not be better to add some fish to the water, fish them out when they concentrate the bromine in their bodies and dump them? How are the people keeping mosquitoes at bay? I find that in everything I do something unexpected comes along and the black balls will be no different. Any plastic I have ever seen will have a biofilm after a week or 2 in water. The black ball biofilm will happen unless they use anti-fouling paint. Which ain't exactly something I would like to drink. I expect the biofilm to grow from bottom to top on the balls, slowly turning them green. Any ideas on this? After all the balls are round not hexagons so there will be gaps.

Is $12 000 000 a bit steep to cover a reservoir?

What is your price point for drinkable water?

Would it not be better to add some fish to the water,

No. Do you realize how much fecal matter would be deposited in the water from the fish and the waterfowl that would quickly inhabit the reservoir.

I worked in water and waste water treatment for nearly 10 years and have done a lot of lab testing on water quality. You do not want waterfowl on your drinking water reservoirs!

I suggest that you don't want brominated plastic particles and leaked plasticizer and chemicals from anti fouling paint in your drinking water either. But of course, nobody is testing for these things "yet". Plastic is not inert and the chemicals in plastics bleed out and the balls will get rough on the surface from bouncing around in the water and be colonized by God knows What. The tests will be refined, of course and people will say "Gee, we never thought of that problem!" But that isn't true.

Fredski,

Great link.

I understand that the shade balls were applied to prevent the chemical changes with the application of chlorine or sodium hypochlorite and the UV reaction from the sun and the chemical.

I am still curious regarding the actual temperature variations from before the shade balls were applied and after and the evaporation rate.

Is there more or less evaporation? This is one thing that I haven't heard or read the results of!

For those who don't want to follow the link, or if the video is taken down later:

1. The shade balls are not intended to be an 'evaporation cover,' they are intended to block sunlight from reaching the water, since some of the chemicals there can be converted into carcinogens under exposure to sunlight.
2. They are round so they will stack efficiently as the water levels rise and fall.
3. They are black since that is the least translucent color, it will block the most light.
4. There is expected to be a reduction in evaporation, but this is a side effect, or a 'bonus' to the main goal: preventing dangerous chemicals from being synthesized in the basin.

Not mentioned is the thickness of the shade ball cover, but since the goal is to prevent sunlight from touching the water, I'm going to make an educated guess and say that the plan is to have 2-3 layers of shade balls when the basin is at its fullest and has the greatest surface area. Two layers would mean the bottom layer is 'shoulder to shoulder' in a repeating hexagonal arrangement, with the second layer in a matching arrangement 'filling in' the gaps between the first layer. A third layer would match the first, filling in the gaps in the second and completing the 'labyrinth seal' to prevent light access to the water, as well an insuring that lost/damaged/stolen balls will not immediately compromise the protective cover.

I'm beginning to smell a dead horse here.

<unsubscribe>

I lived in Southern California for 50+ years (yes, I'm old). I'm now happily residing in Texas. This "solution" regardless of whether or not the balls will degrade, or heat the water does nothing to solve the real problem.

The source of the problem, in my opinion, is that the state has failed to build additional reservoirs as the population increased. The last one built was over 20 years ago. Depending upon snow pack as storage is foolish. The amount of money spent by the state on non-essential services is obscene.

Damming up arroyos to collect water makes more sense than letting people build there at the risk of fires. Being practical has never been California's strong suit.

All

A couple of nights ago there was a follow up story on the news about the shade balls. They have found that they have:

1. Heated the water

2. Caused increased evaporation

3. Caused increased Algae growth.

I don't think they said anything about bromine formation.

So the Shade Balls are heating the water, which in turn is increasing evaporation and promoting algae growth.

So the question now is: do they remove the balls and call it a failed experiment, or add MORE balls to thicken the shade layer?

The increased heading is most likely due to the balls heating up from absorbing the sunlight, and then dumping the heat into the water. If the 'shade layer' were thickened, then the first few layers would be absorbing the sunlight, and the layers under that would be providing a barrier between the heated balls and the water surface. You'd still get heat transfer into the water, there's no way to reduce that to zero, but it would be slowed down, possibly to even to a level below what the open water would absorb.

Another idea, which might have been brought up by that group already and killed for being infeasible, would be to construct a steel/concrete 'gazebo roof' over the basin, to shield it from direct sunlight, while still allowing natural air circulation.

I am sure the US of A could build floating shade structures using old military equipment. Pontoons, aircraft fuselages made watertight and turned into catamarans, same deal with scrapped ICBMs, etc. I would expect there are plenty of people who can think outside the box to do this.

IMHO it is far better to spend money on desalination plants. Ours require a lot of electricity to run them. https://www.watercorporation.com.au/water-supply-and-services/solutions-to-perths-water-supply/desalination/perth-seawater-desalination-plant

I don't know exactly how they work but i believe they need to pump the water to a high pressure requiring a lot of power, and i wonder if this can be done with wind powered pumps instead of electric powered pumps. Would this actually improve efficiency? Would it be cheaper in the long run? Electricity would still be required to pump the water to the reservoir/pipelines and for control systems. The Perth setup uses a wind farm to supply power from a remote location and this is a good solution as they don't want a wind generator at the desal plant for easthetic reasons so that works for them/us. BUT if it works out to be significantly cheaper to use a wind 'turbine' to turn water pumps instead of generators then ..........

Jim

I'm not sure where you got the information from. Can you provide the source. I haven't heard anything about the shade balls failing.

The odd thing is that these shade balls were in the reservoir back in 2011, when I moved just north of the location. It took a while to fill the reservoir completely and in the process, I didn't hear about any problems.

Autobroker

I wish I could, I was listening to the evening news last week while doing something else and I only started paying atttention when I realized what they were talking about. I looked up to see black balls being poured into the reservoir and recognized the setting. I will check the station's website to see if the story is on there.

As everyone feels this is weird idea, how come it was implemented. There is no proto type model trial?. How funds are sanctioned without proper study of whole project?. Sounds fishy project. Now it will be like black sea in U.S too.

"There is no proto type model trial?."

This IS the prototype trial. Laboratory conditions only go so far to simulate the Real World, sooner or later you need to do a 'field test.'

"How funds are sanctioned without proper study of whole project?."

As this is the first field test of the idea, this IS the study.

"Now it will be like black sea in U.S too."

If the project is abandoned as is, and everyone walks away leaving the shade balls where they are, then, yes, it COULD become like the Black Sea. However, we have solutions to prevent that outcome:

1. The project could continue,with additional methods tried until a proper solution is found.
2. The project could be canceled, and the shade balls scooped out of the water until they no longer have any effect on the basin.
3. As it is an artificial basin being tested upon, the water feeds could be shut off or diverted and the basin drained, with the water going to a treatment plant or used for irrigation. Algae generally require a LOT of water around them at all times to survive, and when used to water a field, the algae die and decompose into fertilizer.