WHEN will INDUSTRY USE THIS PATENT?

Maybe when it's published in the public domain?

Yes good point! But really it is published. The reason for not putting the patent number here is that there are massive numbers of people who would use it without paying anything. SO if anyone (american) can come to orlando area to see it , then they can meet the inventor and ride the golf cart with patent and see for themselves that it really does go FAST UPHILL ! and it really does go 45 miles . And if you want you can bring your own batteries if you doubt what you see. You can also see small power demos as well. IF you sign an agreement to buy or sell it you can get a complete explanation of everything about it. But to simply broadcast to world as a data dump is really not going to produce any agreement or profits for us is it ?

P.s . They say chinese and other steal everything they see and never pay anything.

Obviously you can't read .. it say DOUBLE THE RANGE NOT TRIPLE. Please read all material before you put your foot in your mouth. ALso if you knew so much you would be here signing up for a license since you would know it indeed does work.

Again the DARE is there .. if you are willing to put your knowledge to the test . (Read first, talk second).

Obviously you can't read .. it say DOUBLE THE RANGE NOT TRIPLE.

So are you saying your screen name is really DOUBLEBATTERYLIFE?

As far as being there signing up... I am happy to wait in line behind GM, Toyota, Honda, Panasonic, Hitachi, Johnson Controls, and all the rest clamoring for you "invention".

This answer doesn't deserve a response . BUT IF anyone has an Electric Vehicle (write us if you know of one), we need one to install the patent into since it works so well in the golf cart. (see above). We are thinking of a new hybrid but of course it would cloud the issue on the one hand by forcing the viewers to decide if the gas was used. SO perhaps a straight electric car is best? But then again what does the public have to compare it to, since electrics were squashed by big oil and others ("who killed the electric car:" See the video_) 1998 ELECTRIC CAR EV1 lives again! The EV1 rides out of EV heaven to vex GM. and (www.PeaceNikInternational.com )

At least with something like the Prius its well defined in the publics eye to not go very far on electric power alone (is it 3-5 miles?). There is an add on kit (basically just more batteries and a recharging unit) that is reported to go up to 30 miles. So if the patent in a prius with the add on kit goes 60 miles (or anywhere close) the public would believe that. Of course if a straight electric went 60 miles especially a prototype homemade low budget type , that "should" get peoples attention too, since most driving days for most people are less than 50 miles , it would mean no more buying gas at all for normal commutes. LONDON ENGLAND has electrics en masse and even offers free parking to electrics which is $42 a day = $840 month.. that is a CAR PAYMENT + ! So in that city you could actually pay for your car with the savings (assuming you were already commuting and paying that rate).

This answer doesn't deserve a response .

Then why respond? I don't think I asked any questions (other than the obviously rhetorical one: your screen name really is TRIPLEBATTERYLIFE.) Don't feel that you have to respond to every post just to be polite.

TRIPLEBATTERYLIFE, My suggestion to you is to ignore those who tell you to disbelieve your instincts and patent your invention and sell it on the open market and let the public decide.

Dragon

If your invention has merit, industry will likely use it after the patent has expired.

Face it! The US patent system is broke. Filling a patent just puts the idea out to the world. No one is interested in giving you any money for your effort. If they can not steal it then they will just wait until your patent runs out before using it.

You should have filled a provisional patent then either make the product and sell it yourself or go to a large company and sell them the rights to patent it. If you have a good product design they will work with you. If not you will save a lot of money by finding out it is not worth patenting in the first place. If they want to get involved with your invention then they will patent it and be able to afford protecting it from being replicated illegally.

By making it yourself and marketing it you will prove that the product works before showing it to industry. There are also some good marketers that will help you such as Lambert & Lambert who will evaluate it and give you a market analysis before you spend a lot of money on patenting. Usually you can manufacture and market it on a small scale for less money than patenting.

Keep working on anything to save the use of oil. The world needs it and engineers are short on coming up with any solutions just better at criticism for anyone that is trying.

Thanks for your comments (Except the bogus engineer who says its a scam). We know it works and in fact use it all the time in flashlights and also in the golf cart. IT WORKS! The average to good engineer can not understand it and tries to discredit it in order to get more free details. The concept is radical , is new, but does indeed work. WE dare all to come see it if they don't believe it. But you must visit to orlando area since there are some details not available in the PATENT. YES ITS ALREADY PATENTED! Our question is after years of higher and higher gas prices and this is a natural for electric cars WHY ISN"T TOYOTA HONDA FORD GM Beating down our doors? Is it because big oil owns controlling interests? IS that why Texaco bought the super battery patent of choice for electrics and hybrids (NIMH) and then raised the price from $50 to over $1000 ?

Again thanks for advisements from all objective viewers. WE offfer 15% to anyone who can connect us with a valid qualified buyer or licensee. Gosh if we had the ability to manufacture this we would be doing it believe me. We can leave flashlights on for week at a time and run 10 hours a nite for 80 nites!! Toy trains go twice as fast and for same distance as factory models (WITHOUT CHANGING BATTERIES). 1985 EzGo Golf cart goes 45 measured miles versus 18 miles max before and that is with 25% less volume of batteries. 3 wins in 3 different areas tells us its a WINNER !

Help us help you by helpng us connect with real industry powerhouses who can really put this to use in cellphones, digital cameras, electric cars, golf carts, flashlights, etc. THANKS !

Again please read the information IT SAYS DOUBLE THE RANGE NOT TRIPLE> Once again some are jumping at the wrong place.

Double is accurate. The triple name came about because early on we were getting triple running TIMES (TIME IS NOT WORK), in devices like flashlights. When compared to existing flashlights we found that the printed page could be read way beyond the 16 hours that a four cell off the shelf light would give.

Saying I am lying because I say there are details that are not in the patent is again inaccurate. No patent has every detail in it since more is learned as patent and project evolve. We have learned how to make it better of course but the original patent does suffice for one SKILLED (keyword SKILLED) in the art (and define what art too while you are at it , since this is new departure from standard methods I may be the only skilled in the "art" since I am the inventor).

IF anyone wants to come check it ou what would you say after the 44th mile is surpasssed (we have done this and in the rain)? Compare this to only 18 with conventional system, and this 45 miles is with smaller batteries too! Ok.. no more details. You can't get free tutoring on new invnention without some "consideration" from your side. What will you say when toy trains go twice as fast for a little bit more than same distance?

NO, the earth is not FLAT no matter what you say!

NOTE : THIS is not over unity. not perpetual..etc HINT : Take your cell phone battery out of your cell phone when its "dead" and then check the voltage!!! WOW!! amazing voltage left .. this is not any over unity or other. Just simple straightforwards engineering ! End of problem. If you haven't at least done this please quit putting your foot in your mouth.

It is :

1. A circuit that gleans out the remaining energy in batteries.

2. A way to get DOUBLE (NOT TRIPLE) the miles out of golf carts (and by projection electric cars ; this is the next step we will try, watch tv news in 6 months from now).

3. It also gets double (and more depending on device) TIME of operation out of flashlights and other devices like towy trains.

4. Its a circuit that has to be installed in your device. Once installed the user inserts normal batteries as usual.

IT IS NOT A BATTERY! ! But rather a battery management circuit!

PS Some average engineers have tried to tell us it didn't work until they saw it work, then they start telling us why it works. (don't be one of the those types please).

Take your cell phone battery out of your cell phone when its "dead" and then check the voltage!!! WOW!! amazing voltage left .. this is not any over unity or other.

The voltage of a dead lead acid battery must seem even more amazing to you. 10.7 volts is a reasonable voltage for a dead battery. You seem to be suggesting that such a voltage would indicate that there is useful "charge" left in the battery, and that draining the battery below that level would liberate that unused charge, rather than, as battery manufacturers will tell you, damage the battery. ROFL.

... then they start telling us why it works. (don't be one of the those types please).

Have no fear -- I won't be one of those types.

Thanks, so you believe everything experts tell you : That there is no use for the remaing charge left in a battery? I hate to burst your bubble but that is only true for specific instances and situations.

So then in 1900 you would believe man would never fly. I really don't have time to tutor you excpept to say all is not as the "experts" want you to believe ( in other words someday when you get your foot out of your mouth please read all the information and try to think inventively instead of narrowmindedly) .

Remember, the earth is flat, man will never fly!

Your ignorance of the history of flight is stunning. Lillenthal had 2500 flights in before the Wright brothers flew. The Wright brothers would be the first to admit that they did not invent the airplane. Other over-unity promoters share your ignorance and disdain for science, and many use the Wright brothers as examples of people who ignored science to create a fantastic invention. There were thousands at work on the principles of flight before the Wright brothers, and even textbooks on aerodynamics (which the Wright brothers used, being no idiots) This post and it's follow ups (posts 19 and 20) will help acquaint you with of the development of airplanes.

Science and battery engineering principles will tell you why it is better to treat 10.7 volts as the "dead: voltage for LA battery. Draining a LA battery to below that voltage has been shown thousands of times to be counter productive, and is considered abusive for warranty purposes. But in real usage (such as in a golf cart or electric car) even the 10.7 volt point is too low for optimum energy efficiency and battery life.

Daunting as the prospect might be, you would do well to open a physics text, a chemistry text, and ten or 20 texts on battery chemistry and function.

Yes, I rely on experts, provided what they say makes sense. The engineers I've talked with at major battery companies say stuff that makes sense, that corresponds perfectly with tests I have done, and that does not require throwing away of basic physics, unlike your contention of over-unity battery operation.

Drawing a battery down below the "dead" point for the chemistry dramatically reduces overall efficiency. In LA batteries, voltages lower than the "dead" voltage promotes sulfation and damages the battery. The engineers who say this know their stuff.

If nothing else, I hope I have introduced you to a little of the actual history of flight, rather than the gibberish circulated by the anti-science crowd. I give up on any hope of acquainting you with battery chemistry or the physics that very, very strongly suggest that getting more energy out of a device than you put in is impossible. Over-unity promoters live in a world where a different language is spoken, and frankly, I cannot understand it, nor do I have any interest in learning it. If I wanted to live in a fantasy world, it would be easier and more fun to take up Dungeons and Dragons.

Cheers, and I trust that although your scheme seems like just another over-unity fraud, you might be well-intentioned. However. the fact that you are promoting it here where many are unacquainted with battery chemistry, rather than to battery manufacturers, who can easily evaluate a scam, suggests my trust might be unfounded.

Well I am very unimpressed: So many "average" armchair quarterbacks who really don't know much about batteries obviously except what manufacturers want you to know. All we can say is we dare you to come on down and see for yourselves, (those of you who are not calling names as children would when they can't understand something).

One person came close to being on the right track. Data we have is this: a 1985 EZGO golf cart goes 45 miles over relative flat terrain on one charge of lead acid batteries, now if you tell me how far can you go on one charge in that golf cart? (about 18 is the max we ever got with it ). SPEED was approximately 12 mph with odometer (not faulty as we doubled check course distance with automobile odometer first, they were similar readings). LOAD was one person plus normal golf cart weight!

Speaking of wright bros. they said they were scammers too (until of course kittyhawk).

Toy trains go twice as fast for just over same distance as factory models.

Flashlights go much longer even up to 800 hours on (80 nites for 10 hours a nite) on low setting. And always beat the factory models by at least double.

HINT: TIME is not work! DOUBLE MILES , not TRIPLE. TRIPLE and more Running times are everyday depending on how you run the device. (IE Flashlights, toy trains)

Instead of discrediting everything you don't understand why not be an "engineer" and help us find a viable EV to put the patent circuit into? (orlando area)

In christ name , all the above is true ! amen!

So many "average" armchair quarterbacks who really don't know much about batteries obviously except what manufacturers want you to know.

You must have misread my post: I am not an armchair quarterback re batteries. My hands on, lead-lifting experience with electric vehicles goes back to 1965. As I said, I value the insights of battery engineers, when their data corresponds with my own test experience.

I see nothing in your patent that any battery engineer or vehicle engineer would find of interest -- but as I say, there is no point in trying to sell your idea here -- take it the the battery manufacturers (who can and do fully integrate battery systems, including battery management devices) or to vehicle manufacturers.

The place you are least likely to find support of over-unity schemes is on a science and engineering site -- I'd think that would be self-evident.

Conspiracy theories (that "what the the manufacturers want me to know" about their batteries is something other than reality) also don't play well here. All the battery engineers I've dealt with want me to get the very best performance out of their batteries, because they are acutely aware that there are loads of other manufacturers around who are willing to do so.

If you've got something to sell, sell it, don't waste your time here.

Thanks but saying anyone on earth has far more knowledge about my own paten is really offensive. If any did indeed have more knowledge and more resources they would have gotten the patent themselves wouldn't they! We are willing to negotiate with anyone who is not just looking for free information to take back to their lab and pretend they thought of it to their manager (which happens all the time).

Anyone serious would be willing to put money on the table in exchange for rights to use it . Hey IT WORKS ! If you think I would put my reputation in jeapardy for a false idea you are wrong.

For example: The cars that supposedly run on water in my opinion are a hoax as they advertise onboard generation of HHO gas enough to power a car , but that doesn't make sense because the energy to break the water molecule is is more than the energy you can get from burning the HHO gas.

Thanks but saying anyone on earth has far more knowledge about my own paten is really offensive.

If you take offense at that, perhaps you are not ready for the entrepreneurial life. I can easily find many people more knowledgeable about almost every aspect of my own pending patents than I am.

If any did indeed have more knowledge and more resources they would have gotten the patent themselves wouldn't they!

Of course not. Why spend money on a patent for something you know cannot work? Engineers know that the energy output of a battery cannot be double or triple the energy input. Doing so would violate simple and obvious laws of physics.

Again you are in error. Your assumption that we get more out than was put in is in error. The fact is everytime your cell phone goes 'dead' it doesn't mean the batteries are at zero volts. (they aren't). A good engineer would know this. Its obvious you know only the obvious concepts about engineering. So please quit discrediting others inventions and methods unless you actually do some reading and checking.

We get and use the remaining energy out of batteries that is not accessable from normal circuits, end of story. IF you want to use it or check it out sign an agreeement with us. otherswise please quit with your "earth is flat" attitude. You will not be answered again until you have done some reading on your own and some testing on your own. (HINT": check voltage on your cell phone battery after its dead" ) Also if you can "easily" find people more expert on your patents than you the inventor that tells me you are just stabbing in the dark in someone else's area. ( Don't tell me , you work for oil industry? )

" I looked at your website and saw no patent. I searched patents and published applications and found nothing. I conclude this is a scam and I am not a "bogus engineer" but a hybrids systems purchasing manager for one of the world's biggest vehicle manufacturers."
This tell me you ARE a bogus engineer, since it is indeed on the uspto site. If you can't find please tell yourself (after someday you do find it, that you are operating as an 'average' engineer who is a master of the obvious but little more). New technology is not going to send to your door on a silver platter. UNLESS money is first put forth (IE an agrreement with a big co whom we would be more than happy to share the infomation including patent number and other refinements).

If you are who you say you are why don't you have your contact information listed? (bogus?)

Hi TripleBatteryLife

It's all been said by others, so why am I replying? Maybe I'm bored. What a lot of drivel.

Anyone with a brain knows that when it comes to batteries or anything else, the best you can get out energy wise is a bit less than you put in. Your claim that you can extract the remaining small amount of energy from a discharged battery and run your golf buggy the same distance again on this is just a joke.

You are either derranged or a crook or both. I hope no one is dumb enough to give you any of their hard earned money.

Kind Regards

John

Hmmm- maybe 3bl has tapped into zero point energy- then again maybe he has an inaccurate odometer- then again if he thinks anything will happen Big wise on this site, he is deluded, rather than approaching Makers directly. Certainly, by reducing current draw batts will last longer in their charge-But the amount of energy delivered also falls- I don't think he said about same speed/load?. As most would know, all rechargeable cells/batts have internal resistance which rises as cell/batt ages- this self discharges the cell/batt- so if a test was carried out at 1 go rather than over say 2 weeks, the cell/batt would have seemed to perform better than before. Then again, he may just be a BSA having us all on- like tmf.

YOU SIR have found the right path.. only missing a few needed points to make it work! Now come one come all and find a buyer for this amazingly simply fantastically effective circuit (it took me time to boil it down to least complexity for lowest power draw from control section). Who ever directly arranges for the sale or licensure or manfacturing deal will be rewarded with 15%. ( Not you Mr Fry! )

We also still need a viable EV to demo it in. Help us and we will help you in return on profits.

Hi 3bl,

Please share the data about how long the batteries last (after multiple recharges) in normal use, versus how long they last using your invention. I can almost guarantee that you will get cell reversal in short order that will kill the batteries fast (assuming that you are doing what you say). To not share that data would be to admit your idea is a scam. I DARE YOU TO SEND THAT DATA.

S

Cell reversal does occur, but the patent works around that quite nicely. The batteries in the golf cart are PbA (lead acid) and while not ideal types, actually perform still quite well after approx 1 year in the golf cart. (maybe longer, I forget). They are smaller than the normal T-105 (by 25% smaller) and still go much longer than we ever got in the past. Thats the data, (no one is saying that battery life might not be degraded, but also look at the lead acid technology is the worst on the market and still the patent gets all that extra use and speed when needed (fast uphills).

Killing batteries is arguable since there are some who claim "Revive" them (we tried reviving a T-105 with no luck at all using their techniques). These battery "Revivers include some who say they use lots of voltage and high amps to break down hardened sulfate between the plates to make the battery take a charge again. We can't say they are wrong but on the other hand our one experiment with that didn't work either (for us).

Also we have another technique to minimize sulfation. The best technique is probably immediate recharging at end of use each and every time. IF you leave them sit the sulfate hardens and eventually degrades battery. So charging immediately even if you only used it for 10 minutes really helps battery life.

45 miles we got versus 18 max normal 1985 EzGO rig with one person on board.

The reason we did the golf cart is because average business people don't seem to be able to relate to flashlights running so long (they as you don't believe it ), also there is nothing like actual over the road real miles to compare to very well known golf cart performance.

We still need and EV to put this into so if anyone knows where one is (cheap) please let us know, Thanks!

P.S> Don't call names please. You never know who you might wished you hadn't ridiculed and also its not good engineering since you really don't understand what we are doing and we are not going to tell all until some big co. proves to us they are interested. If you wish to help , we need an EV to demo it in ( we are not high budget or we wouldn't be asking ). OR bring your 1985 stock EzGO to here and lets race! THE DARE IS GIVEN! -- WILL YOU ACCEPT !

PROMISE: Anyone who directly arranges a deal for licensure or sale will get 15% !

You answered honestly, and honestly you don't have any data!

"P.S> Don't call names please. You never know who you might wished you hadn't ridiculed and also its not good engineering since you really don't understand what we are doing and we are not going to tell all until some big co. proves to us they are interested."

I didn't call you any names, and I do understand what you are doing after reading the patent shown by Jack. You are switching between 4 batteries. That would make a flashlight much heavier. Who would want one? On my last camping trip 1 set of batteries lasted for the whole 2 weeks, so I have no need for your invention.

S

P.S. I am un-subscribing from this thread, so I will not see your next negative comment.

<sigh>

For anyone interested in the actual patent for this device (which is available in the free public domain), it can be found here.

U.S Patent no. 6,570,340 ("The Stirring of Electrochemical Cells for Extended Life")

If any of you are actually interested have a read. It should quickly become clear to you how this is supposed to work work and WHY you wouldn't bother either buying into it or stealing it.

Oh, and I do not endorse stealing the ideas set out in the patent.

Hopefully that should keep everyone happy.

Am I missing something, or is the extra distance only due to say 4 batts used as against say 1- if so 4 gas tanks on your car would also increase distance?. Except no self regeneration?- what about fuel vapour?. Certainly, most car drivers know that, with a "flat" car battery, another jumper or booster battery will start the motor- but 2 or more "flat" batteries?. Slightly better only. So surely this is a matter of load against supply against time against demand against duty cycle against life of components?. Certainly, anyone who has played with cells/batts knows that reduced current draw & reduced duty cycle will prolong life as long as switching is done manually!- any switching circuit uses power. As to using incandescents- wake up!. White leds are fantastic!.