Straw Poll: Is It Time to Limit Guests on CR4?

I think it's a good idea.

Well it sort of makes sense to me, especailly when you have several 'guests' chatting at once and no way to know who they're talking to etc...

I think the option to remain anonymous should be kept for those occasions when registered posters want to have their say without having any comeback.... whether its because they don't want to sound stupid or they don't want an arguement spreading etc...

Does this new oversight come with jackboots?

Honestly - aren't there enough rules in the world already?

I think it's a great idea too, esp. with the provisions Electroman described.

Mike

"may help to increase the overall quality level of postings",

if CR4 requires that the post be at least three complete sentences, have proper sentence structure, and that the last sentence be in the form of a question, not a demand.

I'm for leaving it up to Admin.

Agree with JohnDg - No.

I for one posted a number of times as a Guest before someone suggested that I sign up. (He might wish by now that he hadn't).

Very bad questions are not the sole prerogative of guests.

cushty didn't want to feel like some of the guests were being victimised in a way.

Yep,

I too agree with John DG. In fact I gave him a GA, another bone of contention among some.

It's kind of like complaining about the taste of your supper while at the same time stuffing your face so you don't miss any. It's easy enough to skip over the ones you don't like. And you never know, that brocolli might just taste better than you thought.

I also agree with JohnDG. I believe in free speech, exclusive clubs are things of the past, move with the times.

Regards JD.

Hi jd,

This is not about free speech. It is about posters taking responsibility for themselves. Requiring posters to follow a few simple rules - for the benefit of all - can be effected only by having them register. I believe that the entity that starts/owns a company/website/blog, has the right to dictate the rules for that domain. Period.

Best Regards,

Mike

Hi Mike.

I respect your point of view, but guests suffer from a preconceived point of view, well earned in some cases but not all. So I don't see why all guests should be tared with the same brush, and those addressing this forum are not all well educated and fluent in English, and it may be the only time they ask a question, so I think they should be given a fair go and not rubbished for thier efforts. Class distinction can raise its ugly head sometimes, so lets treat every one as an equal. These remarks are not directed at you personally, just my thought on some of the associated dangers of being exclusive because the other person does not come up to scratch.

Regards JD

This is a very interesting subject. I often get mildly (and sometimes more) irritated at the vague, confused and even non- questions asked by guests here. While thinking about how to address this thread, I clicked "Ask a Question". Lo and behold; everything you need to do to post an intelligible post is contained on that page!

So why do we get so many "crappy" posts? I think that there are 3 main reasons:

1. The guest posters cannot read English and so cannot digest the simple instructions laid out for all to see (yet they can write a barely legible question in English).
2. The guest posters cannot read English and so cannot figure out how to register (yet they can write a barely legible question in English).
3. The guest posters have no respect for the CR4 community, as evidenced by an overall entitlement attitude, and therefore do not care to follow posting guidelines or register.

These reasons do not, by any means, include all guests.

I agree that we should make people register before they post. I must say however, that I have enjoyed many "guest" posts!

Mike

I forgot my password but have been on cr4 for years and if I really wanted to I could sign in but who cares if I post as a guest .It never stopped Del from speaking his mind and I certianly would be happy to divulge my handle (traditional ) if anyone really cares .

Lighten up you bunch of geeks

You see Mr Troll, it is EXACTLY this sort of dumb and flip post that is NOT acceptable to many CR4 members.....

Sad to say, it appears that you either did not read the posts up to now (or you might have posted in a far more serious and correct manner), or did not understand them......

YOU and your many "twins" (though I must admit I do find it hilarious when two guest are basically "arguing with themselves" on CR4, because that is how it appears!) are the actual reason for this particular blog!!!

Stand up on your hind legs for a change and use your CR4 name, or get one if you haven't!

I said: These reasons do not, by any means, include all guests.

Then you fall into this category. I do not understand however, why you are not automatically logged on? Both my home and work computers automatically log me on whenever I go to CR4.

Is there something I don't know? Virus-related (I've never had a problem with this)?

Mike

I agree with you, I am logged on automatically with either....as far as I am aware, you just need to log on manually the first time with both.....

Better you re-register with some fresh name and keep the record of new ID and PW.

But from your post (because the reason I rarely make comments is because boorish people like you. Why don't you go back to kicking your dog Adolf )it seems you enjoy using your way of language under the shelter of GUEST.

Exactly for this reason, we.. amny of use wish to restrict the forum to registered users.

Thanks for the excellent support, which I have always enjoyed from the legitimate members....

The rest are unimportant......I just feel sad for their families, if they have one.....

I just feel sad for their families, if they have one.....

Excellent response !!

Andy

You remember, we, you and me also had some arguments is some old thread. But arguments with different view points is no problem.

Though we had arguments, there is (and should not be) no problem in supporting also, when we agree with each other. This can happen only when we are registered with some name, so we know, with whom you are argueing or agreeing.

Argueing with somebody with hidden face is worthless.

I agree 100%.

Also I like a "Good" argument....if you catch my meaning...

This is another/the same(?) guest again showing why compulsory registration is needed...rude and uncouth as usual.....but as he is hiding behind "guest" as usual, he feels "safe".....

This demonstrates exactly to us all, that a serious personality disorder/defect is more than just apparent, probably as a result of an awful upbringing, or similar, to make him the "lowlife" that he has obviously become, getting his kicks slagging off legitimate members in a Blog...so I guess we should all be most sorry for him, if the truth be known......a middle child in a large poor unloving family maybe?

So CR4 Guys, do not worry too much about it, just praise to your God that you are not such damaged goods as he/they appears to be........

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Just for your information, my avatar dog is a Weimaraner Bitch called Chloe (as in the French perfume).....so you had a 50% of guessing the sex right, and still got it wrong!!! Oh dear....how unlucky....

Yes, its a German hunting dog that sadly is seen very very seldom here in Germany for no reason that I know of personally, but are fairly common in both the UK and the USA.

The breed is called a Weimaraner, and came originally, some 400 odd years ago from a local King/Baron of Weimar here in Germany!! According to legend, the local people (also called Weimaraners!) were upset in being lumped together with a dog breed!!!!

By the way (some further education for you!), they were originally restricted to the "Fursten" (Prince/Blue Bloods) class until the 1950s, which meant as a commoner, you could not even get hold of one....sadly. But that has changed for the better and after President Eisenhower had one (Heidi) in the middle to late 1950s, the breed caught on in the (then) western world!

Here in Germany they are still difficult to get hold of unless you are a licensed hunter.....

I have posted below a few photos made of Chloe, friends and family since I bought her in November last year. If you would like more, just send me your email address!! (Oh I forgot, you want to remain anonymous!!!)

The very young lady is our highly valued neighbours daughter.......the other is my wife.....demonstrating the affection this breed has for humans (which is one of the reasons they were bred in the first place!)

Many thanks for giving me the (almost legitimate) opportunity to show off my dog on CR4.......

This is SO funny... because Andy is about as British (or more so) than the queen.

Bill

You are right, in spite of now having lived longer away from the UK than I ever lived there in total......I actually have lived in the UK for only 25 of my almost 63 years, 28 in Germany alone....the rest mostly in the far east.

Ex Pats (like me) are often very pro British. Go to some of the British Commonwealth in the Pacific, Fiji for example and say something unpleasant about the Queen, you will get seperated from your "Family Jewels!" very quickly.....Very Loyal. Far more than the actual UK "islanders" here in Europe generally speaking!!

Not that I have had that experience personally you understand! I like the Royal Family too.....I served with Charles on sister RN ships and managed to meet him a few times. (Sorry, showing off.....!)

Funny thing Andy, I am (or was) related to Princess Di. Somewhere around 8th or 9th cousins. She wouldn't have known me from Adam though. There is something about an American grandmother or great grandmother through which we are linked.

Through other lines though, we were here in America back when we were "colonists".

Sincerely

Bill

I have always been a great friend (and still have many friends) of people from our old "Revolting Colonies!"

Neither am I a Brit who complains about the way you use/speak English, I personally feel that you Guys speak "American". You have your own spellings and punctuation, thats as it should be....languages evolve....

Do also remember that if it wasn't for a born German voting for English to be spoken in the New World many years ago, you would all be speaking German today by the way......or your version of German that is......that might have affected the outcome of WWII I feel.....!!

My wife occasionally goes through this computer and cleans out all the cookies and stuff. Well, it IS her computer. Until I get this whole system networked, this is the only computer we have on the Internet.

Anyhow, when she does this, I loose all my automatic log ons and have to do it manually to get them back into the system.

Bill

I agree with John DG.

Maybe a better option would be some extra button's

If a CR4 member post a topic an option that Guests are not allowed to post

And a button to hide all the guests posts on an "allowed guests" thread

Problem solved! Consultant Bill in the mail

GA.. I basically agree that some form of control could be given to the OP... unless of course the OP is a Guest lol.. in which case, I don't think Guests should be allowed to be start a thread. What is worse than some OP who asks a question, gets a hundred responses and never returns.. Registering guests who want to start a thread will create a hurdle that will limit just such a scenario. Also, if an OP doesn't participate in their own thread within 10 posts, then CR4 should close that thread.

Chris

Giorgia didn't

I have been following CR4 for several years now. I've been too busy (or lazy?) to register, however try to scan through postings everyday. While I, too, have been annoyed by some guest's inappropriate or inane comments, I have found many guest do have something valuable to offer (in my opinion). I can understand the desire to increase the overall quality level of postings, but this may actually have the unintended consequence of keeping some some discussions from reaching the quality level that they might otherwise achieve.

Sincerely,

John (who may now get off my duff and register)

Is this forum about engineering or politics?

It is engineering and not politics, Look at post #64 - totally uncalled for.

Due to this type of posts only, people here are trying to avoid "guests"

The whole trouble here is the nuber of such guests are minute, but they are sufficient to spoil the atmosphere.

Guests sometimes have interesting problems and contribute good ideas. I need all the help I can get, so I vote to keep the guests.

CR4 is one of the few places that allow guests to post. If one is going to make registration a prerequisite for posting, you might also make geographic location mandatory. I personally find it interesting to know where some questions come from.

I have also come to expect certain levels of information quality from people, it helps to know who you are talking with.

disclosure of location can actually help responders give more relevant replies.

you'd notice that answers are usually in the context of replier's location, unaware that his US-based thoughts are not applicable in Malaysia, for example.

I agree that should be mandatory in registration.

I fully agree 100%.

It does not have to be a street address, but country and State would be enough usually, or nearest large city......

Good point. On a post question, location is usually the return question.

Now thinking about it with that in mind, registration has it value.

phoenix911

In an ideal world I would prefer a filter to stop people who know nothing about a subject posting absolute tosh (i.e. guesswork replies) just to see their words on the internet. Some guests are very prone to this, although I do agree that this is not restricted to them alone. Better to say nothing than mislead someone with inaccuracies.

GA from me.

Your sentence:-

Better to say nothing than mislead someone with inaccuracies.

...was perfectly put!

Sadly, many people have a moronic need to mislead people just for "fun", though fun is not the right word.....they actually have serious personality problems, but do not know it themselves of course.....they feel that they are completely normal.....sadly...and use guest signons.

There are also a few actual members, that like to rant and rave under the guest name from time to time as well......not 1 cent better in my book.....even though I have actually had "Support" from a few guests from time to time. I would rather NOT have it if the truth be known.....I like people with "handles".....

Which leads me to a joke of course:-

A Guy rang up his Father to tell him that his first child had just been born and was good and healthy.

The (Grand) Father asked "Is it a jug with or without a handle?"

The son replied " Without!"

"But!"

"Its got a perfect place to put one 20 odd years from now!"

Then CR4 will cease to exist. There is not one soul who knows anything with absolute certainty. I heartily disagree with this idea. What you are proposing is Eugenics for CR4.

Chris

I agree completely.....

...Limit Guests...

I like the way that was phrased. It doesn't say "ban guest posts" but rather "limit guests".

Like most of the guys, I get annoyed by guests who don't know how to ask questions. I just put it down to having difficulty expressing themselves in English. However, whether you speak English or not doesn't excuse you from asking "telegram" questions:

"How does an engine work? Please answer in detail."

Or text message questions:

"Hw cn u no d presur in tnk? Tnx"

Here's what I propose.

If you didn't login and click on "Ask a Question" or "Start a Discussion", you're presented with a message giving instructions on how to post your question (state the problem or question, give as many details, etc.). The message also says that the question must be so many words (50 to 100 maybe?) or more in order for it to be posted successfully.

This way, it shouldn't scare off the guy (or gal) who wants to post.

After the message is posted successfully (or not) another message should come up inviting him (or her) to register and join the forum with details on the benefits of becoming a member.

My two cents.

regards,

Vulcan

I no sprecken ze engreesh very clearly too and I are an American.

I agree many of the questions are in broken english but I think for the most part the questions come across. The posters do one heck of a lot better than I would. Clarification may be necessary and sometimes they come across with follow-on info.

Would the restriction to 50 to 100 words be only for questions or for replies? Personally, I would hate to think that I have to work at it to give a smart ass comment when trying to be funny. Man that hurts.

If we restrict question asking only to members, what is next. Holy moly, if the master decides we be knowledgable of what we put out here I'll be banned. That means I'll have to resume reading Dilbert every day for comic relief. Hope I can get my jackboots before getting booted!

VGB y'all

There is a spell checker that you would have to be pretty dumb or lazy, not to be able to use......

Therefore I expect the spelling to be good, even if the grammar is not perfect.....

Would the restriction to 50 to 100 words be only for questions or for replies?

For questions, for the original post only.

One other problem associated with guest postings is:

When they ask a question or propose a discussion, they don't receive any notice via email when replies are made. If they take several days to check out the replies (assuming they can find it again from the long list of threads), they then discover that we've been giving wrong answers because we did not understand the question or important details were left out. So, they post a clarification which would not have to be done had they taken the time to make a clearly stated question.

No, I didn't say that questions be limited to members only. However, if we encourage people to state their questions clearly and with as much information as they can provide, our answers will have more quality as well.

Another two cents.

regards,

Vulcan

I already belong to an exclusive group, we don't allow anyone in who belongs to an exclusive group.

Who is to say that a guest can't have some valuable contribution? I discovered that I sign in as a guest when I am out on the road and using my laptop instead of my home computer (which logs me in automatically).

Not allowing people to contribute is really thinking inside the box. If you don't like the question or discussion put forth, just ignore it and move on.

Hi all,

I think it's a good idea.

Regards

Ernesto

I think you need to get a life of your own and stop putting your nose into others.

I stand corrected from my previous post. It seems rude and obnoxious comments are not limited to those made by guest anonymously.

Thanks for making things more clear for us Jimmy.

.....and who were you replying to? its not obvious and therefore loses any point!!!

Your fun when you get wound up Andy

I try to be, many thanks.

Gee that is such a good idea for so many reasons. Then we can limit membership to just those few "selected" members that we approve of. We can eliminate any kind of dissension. We can eliminate the ability to express any kind of opinion which may be unpopular. We can "control" everything... Grow up you idiots, you were not "chosen" to control the world.

GA

I agree with you completely, didn't trust myself to reply in many words to that guest as I would have been REALLY rude. Just a shortened version......that he probably won't understand without asking!

If you look at some of the guest posts already here, they are just shooting themselves in the head and therefore supporting the very changes we need, without meaning to. How stupid of them!!!!

More power to their elbow(s)/mouth(s)?

Now now Guest, we are only talking about limiting the amount of spam on this site, which almost entirely comes from guests.

Most forums have members only posting, why should this be different?? After all its easy enough to register isn't it?

OO, OO, Yet another example. Gee I love it when people make my point for me.

WAW !!!

Hi AG,

OK, maybe I'm just dense, but I've been trying to figure out what WAW means. Is it some text messaging code?

Mike

No, its just plain British rudeness on my part, it means:- "What a Wanker!"

Sorry!!

"chosen" to control the world.

Dude, it's CR4, not the world. Without some regulation this whole forum would be chaos and crap. It's free, it's easy to register, it's informative, it's fun. Trying not to be harsh, but if you don't want to be here, don't leave mad just leave.

Don't forget Andy is from Germany "the chosen race"

and he can figure out spell checker wow maybe he should decide!!

In reading this posts here. I am new to CR4, so I may or may not have a lot to offer since I have seemed to miss some of what the older more long term members have said and seen. I have to agree with Bricktop on this one. Guest seems to be in a position where this is an engineering forum when questions are asked, and answers given. Someone mentioned where a guest posts a question, there are hundreds of answers, within those answers sometimes it gets a bit side tracked by members where 1 says this is right, no this is right: and the battle begins. Then all is back to answering the original question. But I have also seen where the guest who asked, never returns, or after reading all the answers is intimidated to come back on, and just reads, maybe finds the answer and he is off. So maybe there needs to be a way of tracking a guest, and after 5-10 times of signing on, is blocked and must register.

There have been some excellent questions posted by guests at the same time.

So, I am still mixed on this. I didn't know I could sign on as guest, I just signed up as member. Although I have been a member to Globalspec for years, I just found out about CR4 a few weeks ago.

I am not an engineer, or I should say have a degree. I've just been doing it for 40 years in some fields. There are boat loads I don't know, or only partially know.

Some enough to be dangerous.

Sometimes I answer posts if it is something I am familiar with, and always learn from other posters that know more than I. Which is probably 80%+ of members here.

I do emphasize "members". So maybe guests should be required to sign up as members. Someone else mentioned above that aside from guests not coming back on that we are aware of, many of the posts by members with time short could better be answering questions that a guest posted, but hasn't come back, maybe admin should close thread. This would free up the members that are answering needlessly.

So I guess I am 50/50. But I believe if you log in more than 5 times as guest, you really need to sign up as member.

Jim

Hi there all:

In post 12, Mikerho said " I believe that the entity that starts/owns a company/website/blog, has the right to dictate the rules for that domain. Period."

You can't have a Pepsi at McDonalds... The selected members therein have decided you are gonna have a Coke. An entity of any type cannot control the destiny of all, but they can control the destiny of their own ship. I believe Mikerho has hit on a misconception many share; that the 1960's are alive and well, the 'Me' mentality is more valuable than the 'Us' mentality, and the "Do it if it makes ya feel good" crowd is entitled to autonomy.

There should be a responsibility for ones actions, even if there are no penalties for irresponsible behavior. I am uncertain how to legislate personal responsibility for anything, let alone a forum as CR4.

My 2 cents (Yes, I know there is no such thing as a 'cent' in American money)

Adding one tag to this idea:

As suggested by a previous poster. Give the originator the option of allowing guest input.

With one exception. If the original poster is a guest then this option will not be available there will only be the original guest poster allowed to prevent confusion created if other guests post.

I really don't think the programming portion of this would be that difficult.

Well... I am glad that my posting has generated some interesting discourse, for that was its intent.

Before I go any further, the intent of this posting was only to gauge how many members of this forum felt as I do on the subject and to perhaps work up a suggestion to send along to the folks that run this site on how to maybe make it a better resource for us all. Nothing more...

A "guest" asked... is this an engineering forum or a political forum. How could anyone possibly extrapolate a political motive to anything I said in my post? This is without a doubt an "engineering forum".

So what exactly does the term "engineering forum" mean? IMHO, this forum is a place for people who profess to have an interest in engineering to gather to discuss and talk about engineering issues.

By its vary nature "engineering" is, or should be, a collaborative process in which participants offer opinions and commentary on a given issue. Doing so with a faceless and nameless "guest" is hard to do because their is no frame of reference to validate the comments that some guest contribute to a discussion.

The nature of all Internet based forums of this ilk is the "peer review" process. Given messages in a thread posted by users with actual handles, a reader of a thread can go back and review other contributions made by a poster to the forum and gauge for themselves how "valid" and worth listening to a posting may or may not be. Such peer review, again IMHO, is critical to this type of a forum working properly.

This is not about "free speech", "exclusive clubs" or "jackboots" (I resent that comment - though I respect the right of the poster to make it, and as he put his name to it, it has some relevance to the discussion) so lets not pretend it is about anything more then trying to make cR4 better.

This is about being able to tell one guest from another, and perhaps weeding out the idiots who right in asking...

"Send me full blue prints and full purchasing schedules for a 350MW 750KV power distribution for our new fangled this or that".

And finally... this forum is for "engineers", what is an engineer you might ask?

Well... In the context of this forum, it is anyone, irregardless of where on this planet he comes from, what language he speaks, what color, creed or race, or any other label that fits, no matter how well or poorly they form a question, who stands up and says... my name is "Joe Blow and I wish to talk about....".

Having everyone on the same footing can only, IMHO improve this forum.

Taking what you have said into consideration I still think my afore mentioned scenario and subsequent solution will provide the best of both worlds and give the option to those who want it as to if they would like guest postings.

Not that I am trying to steal anything from anyone Such as What was suggested by other posters but Just that the combination of a variety of things said can be fit into a nice mix that works well for all.

I heard my name mentioned...I wasn't asleep (honest)

If you shut out the guests, you will to some extent remove the raison d'etre for the site.
We thive on the questions... we are not obliged (note it's not 'obligated') to answer the irritating Qs.

What would I do all day if there weren't Qs to consider? (There are only so many bows I can make...and if I'm at work they won't let me make bows)

The guest also provide somewhere to sharpen my claws

I think CR4 has got it about right compared with (or should that be to? Mrs Cat would know) other sites I frequent <gasp...he frequents other sites >

Del

other sites

!!!!!

No.

Care to elaborate?

This problem with guests making low quality posts is similar to one encountered during Skywarn (amateur radio severe weather reporting) nets: nuisance reports. The net control operator is looking for reports of hail with a diameter of a penny or larger, winds 58 mph or more, tornadoes, or funnel clouds. Notice I didn't say anything about heavy rain or lightning. Heavy rain or lightning by themselves are not indicators of severe weather. The net control operators will be glad to take reports of flooding or lightning damage. Also, horzontal rain can indicate potentially damaging straight-line winds or a rain-wrapped tornado, and the net control would want that information, not just to pass on to the weather service meteorologists, but to direct the spotter to a safer location.

Yet, every year during the first few nets, nuisance reports come in. In my area, the net control operators will usually thank the spotter for the report, and then issue a reminder to all spotters what the critera for severe weather are. It is sort of a balancing act. The nuisance reports take up time that could be used for taking a legitimate report, but the net controls don't want to turn away help.

My idea is similar to doublejb's, but a bit more liberal. Limit guests to 4 posts a day, for up to 5 days. When the guest has reached the limit, he has to wait 2 days before posting again. If the guest wants to keep posting beyond the limit, he might as well join anyway.