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6 comments
Participant

Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1

Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/13/2009 12:09 AM

I have this question, and no answer, please, any help, would be welcome.

I had this circuit, sending MP3 file over an SPI interface, just 2 lines, data-clock. The signal looked good, both in amplitude and phase, at the pins of the receiving chip, but the chip rejected the transmission (chip=mp3 decoder). After checking "everything", touched my finger on the chip to see if it was warm/hot, my finger accidentaly touched the pins and... voila!..it worked. A small cap(~10pf), on both data and clock lines(to gnd), solved the issue. Never knew why this cap was needed, because I saw the integrity of the signal AT THE RECEIVING CHIP, both amplitude, and phase, to be ok.

Why that cap was needed?

Any ideas?...thanks for your time...

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Guru
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#1

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/13/2009 5:25 AM

Maybe it was supressing some v fast spikes or ringing which were confusing the clock?
The signal looked good in amplitude and phase...
But presumably you used a 'scope to look at it... but the scope probe adds some 'C'.
You can't look at it without effecting it! So maybe without the sciope there is spikes/ringing/noise etc.
I'm sure weve all had circuits which work when you touch on the scope probe or your finge...one solution is to buy a sausage and add that as an artificial finger...but mind the cat doesn't eat it.
Del

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#6
In reply to #1

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

07/01/2009 4:56 PM

I wonder if it would be Schroedingers cat? or Delthe Cat?

Bill

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#2

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/13/2009 10:06 AM

I agree with you, Del. Synchronous communication is especially sensitive to noise, because any parasitic transition in the clock line may corrupt a big chunk of data being transmitted. And scopes very often seem to "fix" the problem.

For long wirings an RC termination may help. I mean a capacitor (roughly around 100 pF) connected in series with a resistor of 470 Ohm – 1K. These values are, of course, just estimates. Ferrite beads may be helpful, too.

However it would be worth to spend first a little time on the root of the problem:

- Keep the wiring as short as possible.

- Make sure you are using proper ground connections.

- Use shielded cables (except for very short distances). Ground the shield at only one end (usually the transmitter's, in this case the master).

- Keep the wiring away from noise sources. In doubt, consider any electric/electronic device as a potential source of noise.

- Be aware that shielding may be 100% effective for electric noise isolation, but magnetic noise won't be totally cancelled.

For many years I've been using piezoelectric lighters to test noise immunity in communication lines. It is really amazing how easily you can freeze an old-style PC keyboard (which communicates synchronously) by simply triggering a piezo lighter near the cables (not necessarily close to them). As the uC communicating with the KB was also used for other internal purposes, the whole PC could get frozen!

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/13/2009 12:35 PM

For many years I've been using piezoelectric lighters to test noise immunity

Me too

Del

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#4
In reply to #3

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/14/2009 10:42 AM

I've been working with serial comms for quite sometime; integrated data acquisition systems. Never heard of using a piezo' lighter to test noise immunity though. I'm adding one to my field kit. Thanks for the tip y'all.

Guest
#5
In reply to #3

Re: Serial (or serious) transmission problems...

06/14/2009 4:30 PM

I have never had any luck getting a piezoelectric to burn, how do you light one?

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