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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/24/2009 11:14 AM

F1 KERS uses differential instead of CVT

CVT being continuous variable transmission.

Can you help me with some explanation of the mechanism or some drawings?

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#1

Re: F1 KERS uses differential instead of CVT

06/24/2009 1:44 PM

Since the mechanical guys seem busy, the best I personally can offer is Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuously_variable_transmission

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#2

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/24/2009 4:12 PM

no no no no!A very bad correction of the title of my question!

I know what CVT is and I don't need to know more about it.I want the differential mechanism used as an alternative to using a CVT in the formula 1 KERS system.

The differential has 3 outputs - on the one output is the gearbox, on the second output is the flywheel for energy accumulation, what's on the third output?

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#3
In reply to #2

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/24/2009 4:24 PM

My bad - completely misunderstood

I'll hope a mech comes by soon - good luck

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#4

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/24/2009 6:41 PM

This is one of those appalling power-point things - but it may help: CPC-KERS

Here's a sample:

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#5

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 12:50 AM

The Flybrid system uses a CVT. The Williams system, on the other hand, spins up the flywheel electrically, and uses its energy electrically. I am not aware of a system (for F1) that uses a differential alone -- although there could be a torque splitting arrangemement like that used in the Prius, I suppose.

This is a link to a site that shows a few pictures of the Flybrid system and discusses it. Here is the vendor's site, which also provides an explanation. The Tortrak CVT (used in the Flybrid KERS) is a toroidal one which uses no belts. It is highly efficient although I'm sure is is costly to machine, heat treat, etc.

I don't find the info in the CPC KERS PPT very convincing. It will be interesting to see if it is implemented widely in cars. The idea of increasing unsprung weight by adding flywheels to the drive wheels seems unappealing for any car in which you want good handling and ride.

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#6

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 1:10 AM

It seems that few people are thrilled with the KERS implementation in F1. I wonder if it will be used at all next year.

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#7
In reply to #6

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 8:35 AM

In which F1 series, FIA or FOTA?

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#8
In reply to #7

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 12:41 PM

The whole thing is such a circus. I liked it better in the days of Jimmy Clark.

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#9
In reply to #8

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 1:07 PM

Agreed. They had something that's missing today. I think they called it racing.

On the other hand, safety is infinitely better.

What I really miss is Rob Walker's race coverage in R&T.

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#11
In reply to #6

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 6:55 PM

Well I'm a F1 fan who doesn't watch F1 any more.The fact that KERS has a place in a race car, no matter what a travesty, shows that KERS can have a real place in a regular transport vehicle or not to mention something large-scale or industrial application.

I'm interested in implementing it in the civil life.F1 is where fuel injection systems came from and in the turbo era BMW used the 1,5 liter engine block of a commercial car run 100 000 + kilometers.F1 has no meaning without inventions designed to make civil life better.Time ago when there were teams with turbo we used to watch spectacular races and competition of two different technological paths - the turbo is better on the straights but the 3 liter engine is more fit in the rest of the track.Now not only that's gone but the KERS is used as a defense weapon as if we pay to watch traffic congestion and pitstop overtakings.And if before KERS there used to be one stupid grand prix in Monaco now they all became stupid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAn_omLUO0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCrWgGWka5U

Anyways I found what I was looking for here:

http://knol.google.com/k/national-web/saving-energy-in-current-transport/ompa30dkzsb3/1#

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#10

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 2:41 PM

in regard to a CVT, could it be applied to a wind turbine in order to eliminate the large -heavy transmission? Lynn

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#12
In reply to #10

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 7:00 PM

That question suggests that I become an expert in wind turbines, provided I'm already an expert in variators?On my continent we call CVT variators.

Give the parameters and types of wind turbine transmissions and looking at them I or someone else might possibly answer your question.

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#13

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/25/2009 9:15 PM

is this not something like the old John Deere single cylinder Giant piston Tractor that had the giant flywheel to store the energy from the huge piston that ran at like 100 rpm only or so?

You used to hear them Popping from miles away, bump bump bump bump and when a load got stronger the bump bump bump diddn't speed up it just got stronger,


Is that what you mean?

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#14
In reply to #13

Re: Continuous Variable Transmission (CVT)

06/26/2009 7:43 PM

I don't know how they're called in English...there are machines that cut by means of punching with specially shaped mold (die I think, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_(manufacturing) ) and one technology is an enormous flywheel driven by a small/medium electric engine.The flywheel is connected with an eccentric mechanism so the punch is once every turn of the flywheel and throughout the rest of the turn the energy is accumulated in the flywheel.The flywheel's purpose is to release that energy for a very small amount of time, resulting in such power that an electric motor 20-50 times (wild guessing) more expensive will be needed.

The power problem is the reason for that tractor having this flywheel...I can't imagine what would it be to be somewhere around this thing or even driving it without the flywheel.When I was near these presses the ground was testing my kidneys for stones.

However the application I was talking about is energy conservation not for failure prevention but for fuel saving.Every car engine has a flywheel because of the short bursts of power release that would break the transmission.The bumb you talk about should slow down slightly when load increases but that's in my understanding.

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