What Paints, Coatings, or Materials are Best for Salt Hoppers?

Dear Chris, It is likely that the paints used traditionally are in the paint shop, and I'd suggest you query those guys about why they have those paints to use.

If there is something better, Milo is likely to be the best one to ask about it.

At one time I myself actually knew what the coating for bridge steel was that allowed only a bit of corrosion, and then forestalled it, but I have forgotten details since I haven't thought about it in 30 years.

I did once paint an old rusted up Super Bettle with Rustoleum with a brush. I also sandblasted a Seaway Marker Bouy, and then sprayed oil based yellow paint on it before it was put back in the ocean.

Typically Road Trucks are not painted at all where the most damage is likely to be done, so it is actually washing that undercarriage that is likely to be most helpful.

Typically I have not found this to be a routine practice. In places like Rochester New York where I worked driving 5,000 gallon tankers on the airfield, thank God nobody ever asked me to clean the bottom of the truck in the middle of winter.

Spraying Gycol all over a plane from a bucket was miserable enough.

Anyway, check with Milo.

Thanks Russell,

I'll look into that Rustoleum stuff.

and yes, washing the trucks after use does seem to be an issue with these guys... too busy I guess.. city workers..lol

Chris

Washing in sub zero temps makes it hard get back in the truck with windows, doors and mechanisms froze shut

probably right... although I enjoy poking fun at city workers (whats big and yellow and sleeps four?)

Or, if first cost is an issue, how about making the bunker from recycled mixed plastics instead of metals?

I don't think I understand what you are suggesting?

Thanks,

Chris

Good answer, You beat me to it.

Yep, I was aware of this one, and we would use it in certain applications..but overall, I think I need more of a coating than a liner.... although, apparently, there is a refurb that is going to get some sort of spray-on liner..so I will have to see how that goes.. will keep this thread informed as I go.

(I wouldn't have suspected that UHMWPE would survive iron ore sliding on it... wow)

Thanks

Chris

Chris.

Our experience is SANBLASTING the piece, After you can apply some Zinc protection that is a paint with high content of zinc (EX. CARBOZINC 859 CARBOLINE www.carboline.com) and then some epoxy like CARBOGUARD 888 ,after this you can apply some poly-urethane 134 HG. This triplex is solely for structural purpose. But if you want to protect of abrasion you have to apply some LINING, I will recomend in my next comment the supplier that can help you out.

Israel Barron

kemtek.mexico@live.com

ibarron@sfmex.com

thank you Israel

Congrats on the new Position. I love positive cash flow.

Problem with stainless is galvanic corrosion where you connect it to the regular steel parts. that will be accelerated by thesalt and the humidity held by the salt.

For new equipment, the prior suggestions of uhmw plastic and recycled plastics are good advice.

For old, I'd shot blast off old paint and corrosion, then prime and paint with a salt water marine ship paint. I painted a 1970 3/4 ton chevy pick up flat black using the stuff with a 4" brush, and I never had any rust issues through that paint. I also didn't have any problems with barnacles... (groan)

Since they took the tin and lead compounds out, any paint/primer with heavy inorganic zinc content would be my first choice- it would give more than mere "barrier" protection. Iam not familiar with polyamide epoxy resin types, but i suspect that they chip. I have a friend who works at ODOT, I'll see if they have any studies. I think he said that they used a rubber based paint and when i asked him if he meant latex he said no it was 'rubber'

The guys with wood boats like urethane, I can't say that I've ever seen it applied to metals.

May be a day or so.He's probably fishin.

milo

Hi Milo,

thanks.. ya, cash is always good if you can survive the initial lurning curve

my brain hurts at the end of each day right now.. 12 hour days

I'm sure it will get better...also its been damn hot this week. (panting)

I believe we are already doing sandblasting on major jobs or repairs, and powder coating.

We have a guy who worked for Praxair, and I believe he had a marine spec from them. so we will see what happens. we will likely have a few different applications, so it is good for me to know as much as possible about rust/corrosion protection. lots to learn.

I've applied urethane to polished brass... I think that was what it was.. and it worked well. but then that didn't have to have any abrasion or corrosion resistances, as it was typically artworks, or brass beds.

Thanks,

Chris

Care "urethane" covers a wide range - I am referring to the tough rubbery sort (related to foam). (generally based a reaction product between an isocyanate and a polyol)

There are 5 basic types of urethanes in the coatings industry and the variations on these are considerable.

okay thanks...

I'll have to pace myself here.. my head hurts already..lol

Chris

Thanks everyone. Here is the first vehicle I've been exposed to. The equipment is all regular steel. no stainless. We are refurbishing the drop-in hoppers (x10) you see in the back of this dump truck. I believe there are other models in the group, but the issues and proposals for maintenance we will look at are going to be typical.

I guess there is no miracle cure... no subsitute for washing and maintenance. I appreciate your thoughts.

Chris

btw, it looks like we will also be fabbing, and repairing plows (plowshares?) for snow and gravel, so if you have any swords you wish to have melted down, send them along... (okay, that one I'm going to blame on Milo!)

Chris - The best liner is Fiberglass which, unlike HDPE, has structural properties. New hoppers can be fabricated by your local boat hull or corossion tank fabricator. The old hoppers, just sand blast them and spray or hand lay-up a thin layer of Fiberglass (1-3mm). Coatings will wear out and then the spot corossion will eat through your steel. Fiberglass is used in pick-up box beds, flue gas liners, hydro power tubes etc. All applications of high corrosion and abrasion. The boat hulls last for ever, in the salt water.

Drago "the compositesguy" (sorry I did not log in...)

interesting idea... fiberglass. I'll keep that in mind.

I dunno if it would have the abrasion resistance for gravel conveyors, do you think? if so, I wonder why it wouldn't be used already?

thanks,

chris

Who said fibreglass ??? (NB glass fibre is the correct term) Not needed - maybe a bit of glass flake as a filler to give build. Urethane you need - sprayed on or glued on !

I will have to learn more about this.. I'm not sure I have a visual on how it works.. but thank you.

Chris

Will the equipment be used for other uses? Like hauling asphalt, aggregates, rubble, trash, etc.? If so you will also have to look into something that can with stand high temperatures for extended periods and high abrasion.

I worked as a Manager with PENNDOT Maintenance for 8 years. Since the equipment was used all year round. The beds where left as is. After each snow event the equipment trucks and spreaders where washed down. At least brine isn't as bad a corrosive as MgCl or CaCl which we stop using.

just aggregates and salt as far as I know, for the roads for the city.

thanks.

If it's just salts and aggregates then x-liners and rhino should work out pretty good we used it a lot in our small dumps which where not used for hauling asphalt. We also had issues with the under cage. The spray liners might work good under there also.

I agree with the undercoating idea.. but all we can do is propose it to the city people.. especially good if they don't want to wash. Alberta isn't a traditional big salt user on the roads, and subsequently, you can still see '70's era cars driving around.. unlike ontario, where 5 years old, and you will have pinholes around the wheels and running boards...

that being said, Alberta does use larger size aggregate on the roads, so pretty much every vehicle has a cracked windshield, and window repair does an absolutely booming business. In ontario, I drove for 30 years without a cracked windshield.. out here, I didn't last 6 months..

but I guess its better.. higher resale value on the vehicles is worth a windshield or two in 5 years.

Chris

We use a lot of salt around because the public wants the roads black. The aggregate we use is 1/4" in size it works pretty good and reduces the number of cracked windshields.

sounds like Ontario... I don't think you can call what they use here aggregate.. I personally call it "Bullets".. when the truck in front of you throws a stone, it hits your windshield like a bullet, and you leave a little skidmark on your car seat from fright!

Chris

As much as they will be used I would use a good powder coat. All the instructions come with the products But you may have to ask for it And as for the stainless spray paint. Its an expensive idea but does work if the substrate"Metal underneath " is prepared correctly. Other wise you will just run in circles preparing then painting back and forth until the only thing holding the substrate is the paint

I'm pretty sure that powder coating is the original paint.. but for repairs, i think we are using spraybomb acrylic paint.

Hi Chrishg,

I am giving you link for Rubber Chlorinated Paint for Industrial application. Mfr Asian Paints is in India however you can contact you local mfr. If you wish you can ask Asian Paints to quote the price and compare with local mfr. Link is :http://asianpaints.com/industrial/pdf/product_pis/pc0319.pdf.

Good Luck,

Suresh Sharma.

LOOK AT http://www.bunduoutdoor.co.za/bakkie_liners.htm or search South Africa - there are several outfits. and some export (In South Africa a "bakkie" is a pick up truck.)

These urethane liners are tough and rugged.

What you need is something resilient and acid proof. Epoxies are better for alkaline conditions rather than acid. Salt tends to be acidic in nature.

Besides urethane coatings you would need to look at chlorinated rubber or vinyl. These are also resilient and take abrasion well.

thank you.

we have a company close by called Line-X that does coated spray-on liners.

and now another line for Rhino... cool

Chris

As an SSPC inspector, for coatings I would try the following companies.

SPC is located in Brampton, Ontario. Think the spelling is correct.

We have used them many times before for various projects.

http://www.spc-net.com/

and I have heard of some good results from the commercial and industrial uses of Rhino.

http://www.rhinolinings.com/

Thank you!

the spc stuff looks like a great choice..

following other suggestions I would say...save the planet, re-use plastic...

in other way, I guess a high density polycarbonate film could work fine or tempered glass?... maybe carbon fiber

I don't know, that was what pop in my head.

Cheers!

Thank you

Please pick up the theme - Recycle plastic or weld it all together and bury it. Chemically it is similar to fossil fuel hydrocarbons. It is the solution for carbon capture it will tie up the carbon but without the Oxygen as CO2 will.

Old tyres - carbon black and rubber/plastic would also make good carbon sinks. Fix them together and use them to make artificial reefs. As, I believe, tyres still use natural rubber they are a better carbon sink!

Thermoplastics are used to make pallets - seems that the mix is not important as engineering needs are low. Perhaps here is an opportunity to make sheets which could be glued onto the truck bodies. I believe Thermosets could be crushed and incorporated as fillers and so more carbon capture

Hi,

See what you may come up with here .

There are acrylic and rubber based adhesives specifically made for bonding UHMW plastic to itself or to other materials.

http://www.crownplastics.com/p-s-adh...htm?snti=3-3-0
http://www.reltekllc.com/adhesives-for-uhmw.htm

Thank you!

Chris

Have they looked into aluminum bodies: they will not rust, aren't affected by the salt, and won't be affected that much by the sand/aggregate? Just a thought I work in mining/construction field now. I've noticed a lot of trucking firms switching to them to make the trucks lighter to carry more. Just a thought.

they will not rust, aren't affected by the salt, and won't be affected that much by the sand/aggregate?

Hmm...it won't rust? well no but corrode yes in a big way especially in the presence of both salt and water or various brines associated with ice melt.

I know the state has several tri-axles that are aluminium bodies and they never had any real issues with corrosion or where even affected when we applied liquid CaCl to make the mixture "hot". The most affected bodies where the steel bodies, but even that was minimal. The must affected parts where the under body and the salt delivery system. You would see rust on the blades also but only after they sat around the yard during the off season.

Could be their training SOP resulted in personnel preventing actions which would chip or otherwise degrade the effectiveness of corrosion preventative coating used.

We did run a pretty tight ship. I was involved with 40 stockpiles and 8 garage/stockpiles a fleet over 600 trucks in the northern part of the state. After every snow event the personnel where required to cleaned out and wash every truck used and all other equipment. With that many trucks and lane miles to cover we had to take care of our equipment or feel the wrath of the public.

Hi bakerjohn,

So if you washed the trucks like that, how did you deal with them freezing up afterwards with the washwater? or did you store the vehicles indoors? or dry them before turning them back out? or did you just wash the boxes, and not the chassis? just curious.

Chris

All the trucks where washed in a indoor washing area. Most of the truck we where able to park indoors, for the ones keeped outside they would dry of the equipment areas i.e the spreaders. All the slush, salt, water, and CaCl went into a holding tank, which removed the solid aggregate and sent the brine to storage tanks to be used on the road. The aggregate is then removed after a while and added back to the anti-skid piles. It's a pretty neat system.

Hi Chris,

I have washed trucks then parked them outside in -20°F w/o door freeze-up problems by applying a dilution of anti-freeze or ether to the door seals. Needing to replace door seals annually isn't prohibitive compared to the alternative either; maybe a different door seal material is the ticket.

Chrisg288,

Best wishes for your new assignment. Salt/sand crystals abrade any contact container surfaces apart from salt corrosion. Paints, coatings any thing of that sort is likely to abrade and peel away the coating layer further damaging the metal surface.

The following options can be experimented.

1] Higher micron polyethylene sheet cover embedded with epoxy metal adhesive, which can be replaced periodically.

2]Possible TEFLON powder coating, which can exert very low friction as well corrosion Resistance.

3] Silicon adhesive coating or powdered silica sprayed on epoxy resin coated metal surface.

Based on the cost, viability and performance you may try and choose.

Regards

Very useful topic

Even I am facing the same problem

My product is salty as well as dusty

Its going in elecronics system and now in rainy season because of humidity its swaiting. Then offcoarse short circuit.

Please help me to overcome on this problem

We just got a salt hopper back from sandblasting.. this unit had been left sitting in the grass and weeds for some length of time.. It is a little disturbing seeing a 3 x 12 channel eaten right through in a hundred places... it has to be cut out and replaced.. powerful stuff.

Chris

Needed a dusting with Sodium Sesquicarbonate Neutralizer or lime before setting out eh?

Wash down with alkaline water may help too but we already crossed that stream

Fluid Film... try it you will be surprised.. cuts the rust down also..

Excellent... I'm sure that is worth more than 2 cents.

GA.. thank you.