Putting new pads/rotors and turning drums will not improve the quality of braking on a vehicle, unless the old pads/shoes are completly worn out and you are metal to metal.

There may be some here who will dispute that, but don't believe them.

100% correct!

GA AH!

The brake fluid has been purged and maybe replaced (I have to check)

I will check the glazing. Can I give it a little fine surface sanding if it is the case?

Thanks.

Yes, but do it outside and wear a mask. There should not be any more asbestos in the pad, but there may be other materials that you should not inhale.

This is sound advice.

Your explaination of things is usually correct and presented with an adequate amount of explaination.

Break ≠ brake.

--Ed. C.

And finally, many, many vehicles on the road today SHOULD NEVER PULL A TRAILER.

The engine/cooling system/transmission are not designed for the extra load.

The brakes on most vehicles are not sized to stop a trailer. You need trailer brakes if you are going to pull a heavy load.

Check the MVWR (max vehicle weigth rating) on the door sill. You may be surprised at how little extra weight your Jeep is rated to carry. Do not exceed this weight WITHOUT TRAILER BRAKES!

OK, you have a ten year old Jeep that you want to improve, or at least keep up to factory specs.

Take it to a shop that sets up competition Jeeps for off-road sport. They will check your ten year old lines, flush out the old fluid, and probably sell you softer shoes and better disks. You can go as far as your pocket book lasts. Softer shoes grab better, but wear quickly.

At the same time, they will check your shocks, steering, etc. If you're going to keep the Jeep, it's not a bad idea.

Hello Mike,

This is Montreal, Qc, Canada. Vehicle don't last much more than 10-12 years before rust eat them through. This one was well kept by the previous owner, I expect 3-4 years from it. After that, it will cost more to maintain than what it is worth.

I just want to have and inexpensive vehicle that will make it through the 3-4 snow storms we get every year. Although, since I bought it, the storms have been milder.

Maybe this winter we will get more snow and the beast will earn its keep...

Good mechanics are hard to find....keep looking

http://www.aboutautomobile.com/Complaint/2002/Jeep/Liberty/Hydraulic+Brake

GA! Thank you!

Scary information.

I have taken an appointment with CAA to get the brakes tested with their dynamo-meter. We will get real numbers.

Another possibility is that the mechanic installed racing pads....

Here is some great info...

http://www.topbrakes.com/faq.php

Thank you all.

It is just like having a conversation with friend!

All we are missing is a few beers and a BBQ!

Enjoy the summer!

There is also an outside chance that they installed ceramic pads trying to give longer life. They also need heat to work, like metallic and semi-Metallics. Organic pads and softer type pads tend to stop without all the pressure and heat.

Even worn out brakes will lock up if you stab them.

You are right believing that something is wrong.

Is the pedal nice and high?

Sounds like a hydraulics issue to me.

I owned a Cherokee once and the ability to lock the brakes at any speed was exploited as an audible warning device.

Some, actually most, folk here ignore a car horn and they are terrible road hogs. The sound of a screeching tyre right up close makes them pay attention in a hurry and sort themselves out.

So, we just need horns that sound like screeching tires. :)

Now your talking...

The pedal feels ok. I have seen "harder" ones on other vehicle where looking at the breaks was enough to jam the wheels. This seems normal with a reasonable control on the force.

Do bear in mind that a vehicle with all wheels locked is actually out-of-control, and could go anywhere that gravity might please, whereas one that has wheels turning and maintaining rolling contact with the road does have the ability to steer round obstructions, at least.

In the UK, a failing brake will show up at the vehicle's annual MoT test. Tests can also be taken at shorter intervals than annually. If there is an equivalent arrangement there, it might be worth taking it to a test centre, if for nothing else than to put the mind to rest on the topic.

I agree. Read #13.

I still want to decide if I want to jam the brake or not.

Thank you.

I just finished going over the brakes on a 94 van. Yes the rust had frozen one rear wheel cylinder and restricted motion on the other. The restricted cylinder had a frozen parking brake line as well. The bleed valves were frozen from rust. After new rotor, drums, rear wheel cylinders, pads, shoes, cable, hydraulic lines (discount available on full axle), it brakes like it was new!

If air was left in your system, the pedal could travel its full motion before reaching full pressure, and not lock up the brakes, with your foot pressure against the floor (or a stop). You said they turned your rear wheel drums, but didn't say they installed new shoes. If they didn't, this would make the contact no longer between the same worn in radius. I must say that without ABS you ought to be able to lock up whatever brakes were receiving full hydraulic pressure. So something seems to be wrong. One question is did the brakes ever lockup under full pressure? or is this a recent get?

Good call on the new rear drum diameters.

New shoes or at least matching the new radius with some shoe shaping if the difference is small.

The idea that good brakes are somehow dangerous doesn't gell with me. They should, as you say, be able to lock the wheels up and its up to the operator to determine how far into the envelope he pushes. Impaired maximum braking force is not a safety measure. The diminshed braking force would be evident even at car parking lot speeds where jumping on the brakes and locking up could well prevent a day spoiling incident.

Now brakes that grab and lock up uncontrollably is another matter altogether.

Yes, they used to lockup at the front but I had old tires. The tires were changed at the same time they worked on the brakes. The rear brakes never seemed to work that well. The rear pads were still good after many years while the front ones were worn.

The brake pedal doesn't go to the end. They purged them twice.

Thank you

If the friction between tire and road is higher than the friction between brake lining and rotor, the brakes will never lock up the wheels. If you bought significantly better tires, they are just gripping better. Again, check your stopping distances. Better tires will shorten stopping distances, even if you feel the wheels do not lock as before.

BTW, rear wheel lock up is considered worse than front wheel lock up, and was what factories wanted to avoid. With rear lock up, the back will pass the front of the car. With front lockup, there is no steering, but at least the car stops in a straight line.

GA! Thank you.

It all boils down to stopping distance.

I guess you could always test them on a deserted road and see if the stopping distance meets manufacture specifications.

You could use an iPhone app called StopOMeter that would help you measure that distance empirically without guessing.

Locked wheels are not going to allow any steering response. If the vehicle was built at the time when ABS was an option, the manufacturer might have used a larger master cylinder to limit one's ability to lock up the brakes on non ABS vehicles. And using the smaller bore masters on the ABS cars that would have modulation help if the wheels were locked.

The braking distance is the test you want. Everything else is an aid to reducing the stopping distances.

As long as you are stopping in a straight line, the road surface is uniform, and your brakes/tires are in proper order, locking up the brakes provides the shortest stopping distance versus ABS.

ABS gives the uninitiated driver the advantage of steering and not having to think about modulating the brakes manually like a professional drive would do.

Not exactly. As the tire locks up and skids, the rubber is scraped off and forms little rubber rollers for the remainder of the tire to roll over. This will extend the stopping distance. Optimum braking occurs just before the point of lock up. Or so I was led to believe.

It could be. My information came from an automobile magazine with some form of scientific study, but that study predates the internet.

The reasons behind the faster stop has a number of factors, but one of the more important factors was skidding maximized the downforce of the front tires as opposed to ABS.

It also depends on the surface conditions.

If two wheels on one side are on a gravel shoulder or a sheet of ice while the other two are on dry pavement, the ABS will multiply the stopping distance compared to blocking the wheels.

That is the problem with the ABS systems on the cars that I have owned, you get the braking force of the slipperiest wheel. They are supposed to criss-cross them but I am not sure it helps that much.

Now if you lived in Europe, you could go to a testing station and they would test the front and the rear axle for braking effect and the handbrake. They know what your vehicle should achieve as well and you would get "failed" if it did not reach the correct specs.....

ABS/ESP are nice to have, but we all drove for many years before they were invented....

We learnt to leave a proper distance of at least 2 seconds to the vehicle in front by saying = "Only a fool breaks the 2 second rule"; which takes around 2 seconds to say......for most people.

Too many drive too close.

Only pull trailers that have their own (correctly adjusted) braking system, then it affects your own braking far less....

Some US cars, when sold in Europe, had to have an uprated braking system before going onto our roads, that might be a way to go for you, but not cheap.....the OEM usually supplied the parts.

they break quite easily, as to how well the BRAKE.. now that is an entirely different question...

Sorry, it is a pet peeve of mine when people use the words brake and break and gauge and gage interchangably.

Carry on...

That's just the Canadian spelling.

Maybe it's one of those cute things like calling their trucks Lori?