Fix Cracks and Coat an Old Concrete Floor

It sounds like you've looked over most of the options available. I'd like to revisit one, however. Epoxy coatings are available in vast colors, textures and strengths. If the concrete is old, as you say, there is minimal curing (if any) happening now, and a thin layer of epoxy would seal it up and make it look like new again. If you're not seeing any actual breakage or base deterioration, I'd definitely clean up some of the cracks and try to use a flexible filler to make it even nicer, and you can even add a touch of sand over the top before it cures. I've heard of people mixing sand right into the coating, but I think that would change the application characteristics. Many years ago, I was working as a lifeguard and we re-coated a diving board with an industrial urethane and sand. We put a bit too much sand on it and got pretty much a sandpaper board - but nobody EVER slipped. It went on as one coat of urethane - sand before it cured - then brush and vacuum and another coat of urethane over-top. I don't know if this helps, but that's my opinion for today anyway. Good luck.

Talk to these guys about a patching compound.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/hc-quick-patch-and-repair-5-lbs/?referringCategory=tools-supplies/patching-repair/concrete-patch-repair/

If excessive moisture won't be a problem, a piece of indoor/outdoor carpet, cut to size, is a pretty quick fix. Lowes and Home Depot actually have some pretty nice looking stuff for a reasonable price...it's not just the bright green anymore.

If it's not already painted, I wouldn't paint it; you're just creating more work for later, when it starts failing. Rather, I'd go with a colored concrete stain.

http://www.sherwin-williams.com/homeowners/products/catalog/hc_concrete_sealer_solid_color_solventbased/

These should keep you pretty close to your $100 number; maybe a little more. $100 doesn't buy much these days.

Thanks to Guardboy62 and Kramarat. Both suggestions are good. I hadn't thought of outdoor carpet. That would take care of all concerns I listed. I worry about the carpet holding sand. My wife would not like that. I could consider epoxy on the more exposed half (front door half and no major cracks) and outdoor carpet on the more private half (bigger cracks but no through traffic).

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I got a tight woven outdoor carpet for my boat deck, at Lowes. Sand and dirt just vacuum up. It's not thick enough for any real penetration.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_363756-61038-RESPTY_0__?productId=3458896&Ntt=outdoor+carpet&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Doutdoor%2Bcarpet&facetInfo=

Don't get tiles though; they sell it by the sq. ft. off a big roll. If it gets really dirty, you can roll it up, take it out in the driveway, soap it up and hose it off.

Sometimes sounds like a good idea and sometimes sounds like a problem. It solves most of my issues rather easily. But, being between the ocean and the intercoastal there is always a lot of sand around. Sand in the street, sand in the driveway, sand in the vegetable garden, around the fruit trees, on the bottom of the shoes, etc.

I'm also very allergic to fire ants. Carpet might offer hiding places that I might find out about the hard way.

But, it is a good idea.

just wire me the 100 bucks, I'll bring over a pitcher of margaritas and watch you patch over the cracks..........I'll make sure you do it right!

It's in your Nigerian account waiting for you.

I didn't know about the latex crack filler. Thank you.

Tried this and it only last maybe one or two seasons. Not worth the money.

Sorry guys this stuff isn't worth the money with in a year or two it will be peeling inexpensive yes but very poor quality.

Solar is right, this stuff is good. I would clean it with 90% isopropyl alcohol (sold at Wal Mart) as a final cleanup prior to filling. If you want to level the crack afterward, you can buy automatic leveler. It's like a soupy concrete material (buy the mix yourself stuff). Gravity makes it flat.

Autobroker-

Have used this product and the Sika products. By far the Sika product is better. Better elasticity, better adhesion to substrates, self leveling, available in caulking tube, better filling, goes down further in cracks and easier to apply. Don't have to clean cracks out with flammable alcohol, simply chip away excess concrete, vacuum out the cracks (both products require these) and apply. Others I know also say Sika is best. Product is not as well known as Sakrete product because it is a contractor product not a well known homeowner product. It is sold in the big orange box store. See post #24

Other solution is top n' bond (see post #15). looks better than either one and just as simple to apply, Its advantage is it fills in the cracks and also can be put on in a feather layer. This way the whole concrete pad has the same color. Very easy to use and better than either one of the above products. Used it about 40 years ago and the pad has never had to be replaced and that includes salt being put on it in some winters.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Good to know. I've never used the Sika product, but next time I will give it a try. I know the "name brand" consumer stuff isn't as good at the stuff contractors use. The question is; What are the pros using.

Thanks for the advice.

Autobroker-

Pro's are using the Sika. That's who told me about it and gave me some to try. Never went back.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Most of us use methacrylate. Seals great avg life is 25 years.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my memory is that methacrylate adhesives are for joining plastics, glass, ceramics and metals, not concrete. They are good for what they are intended for but not in this application. They are also very low in elasticity so they do not accommodate changes in the crack width very well. Although they are very strong and chemical resistant a strong adhesive is not necessarily the property that is needed. Ability to shrink and expand with changes in crack size due to temperature changes along with good adhesion to the substrates are more important. Its strong impact resistance is most times a detrimental property.

It is also a 2-part product that requires a mixing tube on the applicator end of the cartridge. This would lead to not being able to reuse the remainder of a cartridge unless the mixing tube was carefully removed, sealed and replacement mixing tubes available. Also the shelf life of the liquid is only 12 months

The most problematic thing about its use is the cost. It retails for about $18.00 for a 50ml tube and that only includes one applicator tube. That rounds out to be about 3ml/1dollar or $0.33/ml. A very costly project. http://www.adhesive.com/M1-methacrylate

Good Luck, Old Salt

We use all the time. Like I said before bridge highways deckings flat pours in structures etc. It works great I've used it from the northeast PA NJ NYMD to west coast CA AZ NM TX WA OR MO NV. Not sure what your talking about its a very common permanent fix for concrete cracks.

Bakerjohn-

Do you mean Methyl Methacrylic adhesives and not Methacrylate adhesives?

Methyl Methacrylic's are recommended for quick repairs to concrete bridge decks. They have rather poor elasticity, poor complete bonding properties and usually have to be replaced/repaired after 2 years. An advantage to them is their rather low compressibility which makes them ideal for cracks that will have large loads on them.

Methacrylate adhesives/caulks have high compressibility, very good adhesion to side walls of cracks which lowers the possibility of water migrating below the filler and leading to possible freeze /thaw breakage of the concrete. If they were to be used on a bridge it would not be on the decking but on the bearing pads, points of expansion, etc. They do have a slower curing time which for some applications makes them better than Methyl Methacrylic adhesives.

There is a very big difference between the 2 compounds and their uses. The procedures for the manufacturing of each are also very different.

My recommendation was for the use of a Methacrylate product, one much more suited for this application as described by the OP.

For information on the use of these, there is a good source in a study by NY State DOT:

https://www.dot.ny.gov/divisions/operating/oom/transportation-maintenance/repository/Polymers%20for%20Bridge%20Decks_1_0.pdf

Good Luck, Old Salt

We call the compound methacrylate in the construction and concrete business you can go by what ever name you want. Like I said repeatedly the stuff works great if you want to fix the problem if you want to put a band aid use sika or any other home depot product you want. At that rate they might as well use duct tape. LOL

Is the NY State DOT wrong? Is the NJ DOT wrong? Both spec the product you are describing as Methyl Methacrylic.

Checked with a guy who is at the NJ DOT. He agreed with me and said if anyone made the substitution for Methacrylate or vice versa they would be off the job and replaced with another contractor who could do as specified.

Doesn't really matter what you call it in the construction and concrete trades. The slang you quote is severely in error. To perpetuate this error is a disservice to the trades. Slang unfortunately catches up with you and punches very hard. Why not call it what it really is? That way no one will be confused. Similar to what you said "the stuff works great if you want to fix the problem" but the stuff that works great isn't that stuff!

When I go to a bar and order a beer, I want a beer not a cheer! Likewise if I order a beer I don't want an ale. If I say what I want, calling it what it really is, I won't end up with a ham sandwich!

As for your mention of duct tape, I only use duct tape on ducts and for taping level "B" and Level "C" haz mat suits, both approved uses. As for the Band-Aid, it is not worth mentioning. It is an extremely poor analogy. Also, Sika is not only sold in the big orange box, it is also in masonry supply houses. Who cares where you get it, as long as you get it! You should also look up, in Google or some other 1) Methyl Methacrylic; 2} Methacrylate; 3) polyurethane adhesives and caulks; 4) elastomeric sealants; 5) module of elasticity; 6) and the MSDS sheet for each product. A lot of reading but contains clear clarifications of the products, their properties and best uses.

In summary, specify what you want not the street name for it. If not, the person should prepare themselves for an onslaught of "egg in the face". If you want vanilla, ask for vanilla, not vanilla-chocolate.

Sometimes the usage of slang can generate situations where people's health and safety are compromised. In extreme situations it means death to you or a coworker. This not only affects them but also their families, their friends, there associates, the undertaker and grave diggers.

Good Luck, Old Salt

You talked to guy from NJ DOT. LOL You're a hoot. That examples a lot. Just about every state when dealing with methyl methacrylic calls it methacrylate. Its called a common commercial name. Using your example its like go to a bar ordering a beer and calling it 3% Ethel alcohol with malted barley flavor By the way there are over a 101 uses of duct tape I believe there is a book on it out there maybe you should read up on it. Already has study up on the material I have several copies of the SDS sheets. Get with the times old man MSDS are out.

bakerjohn-

1. guy from NJ DOT is a neighbor. Do you know him too?

2. I'm not a hoot. But apparently I have more communication skills than you have and can control a crass temperament better than you.

3. Have you taken a poll of all the states to come to that conclusion?

4. I disagree with your statement about all states calling it what you have stated. No where in several searches including scientific, commercial and general, have I found them described as you have stated. The referenced NY DOT study clearly states what is what! Did you read it?

5. A beer is a beer, not a cheer. Also Ethel Alcohol is spelled Ethyl. The hydroxyl derivative of Ethane. Ethel is a woman's name, such as Ethel Merman.

6. I am aware of numerous uses of duct tape but most frequently use it on ducts and haz mat suits. Some of the other uses are dangerous. I have also read the book.

7. MSDS refers to a Material Safety Data Sheet. A requirement of OSHA. They are used to comply with the Hazardous Communication requirements, 29CFR1910.1200. The closest I can find to a SDS sheet is Student for a Democratic Society, an old radical group from the 60's and 70's, and SDS Pizza located in Oxford, Ohio, the home of Miami University. MSDS's are not out, where did you hear that? Fortunately or unfortunately they are part of everyday life.

8. Your statement Get with the times old man is partially correct. Yes I am probably older than you, just as many other contributors are, but your reply can also be construed as being wiser than you. Don't know, I have never met you and you communications appear to suggest that you have no desire to meet me. Don't fret about that.

9. Many other perple on this forum are familiar with my posts and my approach to answering questions. I do my best to answer in an intelligent manner and with my personal feeling omitted. I detest when contributors make personal attacks on another and don't follow the intent of the forum with statement to others such as: You're a hoot. That examples a lot; Get with the times old man; and other senseless and derogatory statements. I have given your contributions clear and thoughtful consideration, I have tried to reply in a polite common sense manner without letting my distain for anyone interfere with the knowledge that every poster want to contribute for the OP. Have you done this?

10! Having said that, don't bother to reply to this post. I may be older than you but apparently my common sense brains are much more mature and useable than what you postings indicate for you. If you choose to reply, remember that my "delete key" is bigger and stronger than yours will ever be and it can beat the crap out of your "delete key".

11. Normally I would consider replying to your posting as a waste of time. Depending upon you, maybe it was!

All other forum members- Sorry for taking up your time but this had to be done to maintain the level of the forum. As may of you know I would rather be contributing to an "Experimental Experiment"

Thank you all,

Good Luck, Old Salt

1. Nope 2. Yes you are your hilarious. 3.nope but my statement did not say all states. 4. All the states I've worked in which is about 20 have including NJ. That's over the pass 20 years maybe they called something different in the 70s and 80s. 5.If you know MSDS so well you would know they usually have several names associated with the same product. 6.Cool 7.MSDS is old school it is now being replaced something someone familiar with Haz mat should know. 8. Be nice if you act it this blogs have no emotion to them and you username is old salty. 9.No insult intended. Just standing by my statement. 10.Computer muscles aren't impressive. 11. I doubt that since I've seen your juvenile tyrants before on several topics me thinks this is your meat and potatoes. Good night all. And Salty your still a hoot. LOL

Bakerjohn-

Obviously from your latest post, you are the fool! I didn't want to respond any more but felt compelled to clarify you statements to me and the other comtributors.

One thing that show your lack of _______ is your reference to my familiarity with MSDS's and my Haz Mat knowledge. Mr. John, I was on the forefront of MSDS's and testified to such at the hearings in DC prior to their implementation! I also implemented them initially at ten large plant sites, chemical that is.

As for my knowledge of Haz Mat, it is by far greater than you could ever comprehend. Haz Mat awareness, operations, technician (the 80 hour one not the 40 or 24 hour); Fixed facility specialist; Rail Tanker Specialist, Tank Truck Specialist, Radiation Specialist, Weapons of Mass Destruction Specialist, Explosives Response Specialist, Radiation/Nuclear Specialist, Terrorist Response Specialist, Sampling Specialist, Hospital Response Specialist, Biological Response Specialist, Compressed Gas Specialist, Incident Commander and numerous other Specialist disciplines within Haz Mat. These do not include the technician or lesser levels of knowledge and skills. I am also a fairly sought after consultant and instructor in Haz Mat. Sorry, but the resume is too long to list here but it includes 42 years of positions of increasing responsibility in the chemical and chemical engineering industry. When you infer that I know nothing about chemicals and the confusion you have on the noted two compounds, it is clear that your use of the slang has obviously confused you concerning them and their properties.

As stated before, get your facts together before opening your verbal communication device. It could lead to a lot of egg on the face. Mr. John, you picked the wrong person to display you knowledge or lack thereof to.

Good Luck, Old Salt

Hi Salty You are hilarious. How long did it take you to write that dribble. Being old I'm assuming you where doing that when you wrote your juvenile response. Its called Global Harmonization Standards published by OSHA March 2012 went into effect May 2012. Training required by January 2013. Looks like you missed the deadline. All labels and SDS (Safety Data Sheets) must meet this officially in June 2015. Most companies are already using it. From you lack of knowledge in this area old timer I'd say you haven't taken a refresher or attended an OSHA seminar in about three years. Since we in the Environmental and Safety field have been fully aware of it since at least 2010 you are obviously out of touch. So use your computer thingy and do some important research. Instead of wasting everyone's time trying to read you long inaccurate yet amusing responses. Time to get up to speed old salty.

Mr. John-

Not dribble, just facts. SDS's implementation is not required until 2015, MSDS's are still the primary source of hazardous information for chemicals. The primary difference between the two is a uniform order of sections and a standardized format, two things I was involved with influencing their acceptance. Deadline is 2015, not 2013. As for your accusations concerning my maintaining my competence in Haz Comm. I haven't taught that class since Feb of this year but still know most of it by rote memory. This gap has been in order to teach several classes of higher priority. I have also been involved in EH&S since the Williams Steiger act was approved in 1970, and have been well rated at it. I don't consider that as out of touch, neither do my peers and students. Have you had and still maintain such a competency? Your tirades and wild false accusations don't seem to indicate it.

As for us, your communications seem to be the greatest source of "Communications that are Hazardous". I may be chronologically older than you but your postings, such as your last one, does not show the traits necessary for implementing and maintaining a satisfactory EH&S program. Neither does it show any sufficient communication skills to interact with others to have them participate willingly in EH&S programs. That is based on not only mine but also the general consensus of many programs and individuals who have done so much to advance the field. i.e. an old saying "you can catch more flies with sugar than you can with vinegar". (Vinegar is 5% Glacial Acetic Acid, if you were unaware of that). That is an old saying but still holds true!

Get with it. This forum has no place for the apparent "bully" tactics that you have decided to implement. It is a science and engineering forum, not a punching bag for the contributors who do not have the skill to present themselves and their comments in a scientific and engineering manner.

Go do what ever you want to do in any manner that you want to, but leave me out of it. I don't want to reduce my type of communicative skills to the absurd level that you are maintaining. There is no place for them in the scientific and engineering disciplines! As for slang, here a couple of them addressed to you and only you: H.Y.D.A.K.M.A.H.Y.D.P.O.S.; Y.A.T.D.P.O.S.I.T.W.; G.B.M.F.C.L.P.O.S;K.M.A.; S.D.C.Y.S.A.K.R.H.A.!!!!!

Don't ever bother replying to me again, until you can improve you manner of posting things on any forum. It is a waste of the other member time, most of whom are here to provide information in an appropriate manner to the OP.

As for "Salty", only friends and associates call me that. Don't ever include yourself in that group! They use that expression due to friendship and my extensive salt water sailing skills and experience that I have shared with them.

G.T.H, Old Salt

just a note...your use of the word "fix" I find confusing, only budgeting$100 makes any repair a temporary band-aid. perhaps had you used the word "fill, or repair" I would have given a different response. I'm not sure any of the filler suggestions will mitigate any further crack propagation but your OP suggestions a cosmetic repair good luck

When I see cracks, I always think: how do they come there, what is the cause?

Unless the cracks appeared close after pouring the slab (drying too fast or sun heat exposure), the answer is always that the concrete didn't hold together because concrete has no tensile strength. Thinking further that way, it is explainable that there was(is) no or not enough re-enforcement in place, and particularly on the top side, because there the crack widens. This can be caused by the pillars you have on the deck or an uneven underground composition.

When the cracks are big, I would consider to acid clean (muriatic pool acid diluted 3 times) the concrete very well and put a whatever - only polyurethane paint or compound when moist - epoxy when dry - thick coating on it and embed a fiber glass mat (or net) on the surface in the paint. There are very nice woven textures that are also contributing to the anti skid requirement. (Same net as used to plaster in when using styrofoam walls - high impact class) When the texture has been inserted you can finish it with one or 2 coatings of the same material.

The fiberglass will provide a positive reinforcement to prevent further cracks and the texture- coating combination will contribute to a $10,000.00 view for a couple of hundred bucks.

Cleaning this thing will be a piece of cake. First fill in the cracks.

Just know that the color may change under sunlight exposure.

"What is the cause?" - Single family homes built in Florida in the 60s were full of contrasts. The walls are rock hard plaster over metal lath that would stop a bullet. To hang a picture on the wall I have often predrilled with a masonry bit and filled with normal plaster so I could drive in a nail without bending it. Outdoor slabs from the same time period do not get any positive comments.

Thank you for the coating suggestion.

PS I just noticed you are in Florida too. You already know what I was writing about.

Thank you. I'll check into it.

passingtongreen-

Yes, Much better. It has 3 times the elasticity of the latex based so it will expand and contract more with the concrete as the sun or heat expands it, one of the biggest causes of failure. Since it does expand more it is better for keeping water out of the sealed cracks than less elastic products. It is also less likely to loose it's adhesion to the walls of the crack which forms paths for the water to migrate down into and through the crack.. Also it is available in self-leveling formulation.

If possible, use a pneumatic caulking gun set on a very low pressure. It is harder to squeeze out of the tube with a hand powered (your hand) caulking gun.

Another solution would be to use a product by Sakrete, Top n' Bond. This is a polymeric cement mix which looks like cement. It can be applied down to a feathered slim coat and also can be used for patching. The use of grout may be necessary for deep holes/cracks below the top n' bond.

For large cracks clean them with a masonry disk on a 4-1/2" grinder and then use a stainless steel wire brush (hand) and vacuum any dust out. Fill deep cracks/holes by cleaning them out in the same or similar manner. Put grout in the deep ones but not to the level of the concrete, about 1/2"-1". Follow the directions for the top n' bond and fill shallow cracks with it and if you want to resurface the concrete with the top n' bond also follow the direction on how to do this.

http://www.sakrete.com/products/detail.cfm/prod_alias/Top-N-Bond-Concrete-Patcher

It is not difficult and it should fit into your $100 budget. I have used it several times for situations such as yours and always been satisfied with ease of use (very important to me), cost and the finish.

Good Luck, Old Salt

I'll look into that. It sounds like a good product and fits my need to keep the concrete lower than the front door.

Thank you,
Bruce

Thank you.

You should look into this as it is a good product, at least from the projects (2) that I have seen. It's called Restore, and two places where I know it's available is Ace and Home Depot.

Rust-Oleum Deck And Concrete Restore $89.99 or $99.96

Here what you get

• 1 gallon
• Tint base
• Coverage: 25-30 sq. ft. with 2 coats
• Liquid armor resurfacer
• Moisture protection
• Slip resistance
• Fills up to 1/4" cracks
• Walk on in 24 hours
• Water based
• Low odor
• One part ready to use
• Ideal for wood and composite decks, concrete, docks and more
• Apply with Restore roller covers (Ace nos. 1495704, 1495696 and 1372366
• 8 hours before light foot traffic and 3 to 5 days before replacing furniture
• Limited lifetime warranty

Rescue

That looks interesting. I can't believe I never noticed it in my (usually) weekly trips to Ace, Home Depot and Lowes.

Marine Deck coatings, and Garage floor/ Industrial floor coatings--Google them...--Saw cut out the cracks--Epoxy or non-shrink grout--- fill the cracks--Urethane garage floor coating or Garage floor epoxy coating--One good thing about the carpet ideas is that it TRAPS the sand, making it easy to vacuum up, or leaf blow off. Good luck.

We use methacrylate on concrete cracking. Its used a lot on bridges and road construction see why it would be useful for a deck.

Correct me if I am wrong, you can do it nicely if you want, but you are interested in not only fixing the cracks but also putting a finish on the slab including on the patches. If so, I and many others have not correctly submitted solutions to your total problem, just the crack repair. Some suggestions have prescribed total solutions but most of them, some of mine included, have recommended products that paint and epoxies will not adhere to.

I, and many others probably, would appreciate your clarification on this part of the OP. It would also be better for you since we probably will not recommend solutions that provide for the cracks but not the surface,

Thank you in advance for your clarification,

Good Luck, Old Salt