Peak Electric Field: Newsletter Challenge (08/03/10)

Wild guess: Because you are in India?

That is about the time the sun is dipping out of site around to the west in all the major cities.It may have something to do with the moon the stars and the sun being blocked from site overcome by the earths fall into night when most of the lights come on. Ds

I am thinking that there is a delay between the afternoon charging that takes place in the middle atmosphere by solar convection, which ionizes the ionosphere, and reaches maximum intensity that evening. I am thinking that there are many contributions to the potential gradient in the atmosphere, but solar convection is probably the largest contributor.

In other words, the convection process peaks in the afternoon, increasing the electric field, then after sunset the energy that drove the convection in the middle atmosphere is still pumping upward into the ionosphere. By the time the charge pump maxes out it is after dinner.

Another mechanism: From my amateur radio days, I know the upper ionosphere splits into two layers during the day (F1 and F2). The F2 layer is the highest and gets bombarded by cosmic and solar radiation. At night the F1 layer looses its charge the quickest and recombines with the F2 layer. This might contribute to a maximum at that time when the two layers recombine.

Note, I am making the assumption that the potential gradient is measured at a specific spot at that location's local time.

This is a good idea (better than I could come up with), however they don't say "Where" they measure it. If it is somewhere along 0deg Longitude then your proposal holds up. but if somewhere else or in multiple locations around the globe, then "time of day" based theories would only be valid for one area on the planet.

I have no clue, but proofreading challenge questions before posting them would benefit everyone.

That may be a very good guess!

The current longitude of the North Magnetic Pole is about 104° W, which is about 7 hours past noon GMT (or 1900 Zulu) when the magnetic north pole co-aligns with the sun.

Makes sense

cosφ - as they say.

This would have to be when it is summer in the northern Hemisphere, and because the North Magnetic pole is not aligned with the north Geographic Pole, we get a peak at 19:00, also the effect of the solar wind is to 'push' or distort the earth's magnetic field closer to the planet, thus concentrating the field. - The alternate 'maximum' will be six months later when the south pole is towards the sun. I do not know how to determine if the Northern or southern summer would present the greater maximum (in the respective hemisphere).

The sun is over the antennas/receivers.

Global thunderstorm activity peaks at 19:00 GMT (it's amazing what a little homework can do!)

Wild and woolly guessing.

Temperature differentials (day to night) are highest over land as opposed to sea. Taking a rolling average the greatest area of the earth's land mass i.e Southern Africa up to Scandinavia is just beginning to pass into night.

By 19:00 the biggest continent escapes exposure to solar radiation. Oceans will be the biggest areas exposed therafter. Emission patterns change accordingly, and the electric field strength is about the same everywhere in a given moment.

I would hazard a guess : First the electric field would probably interfere with radio wave transmissions-so therefore would probably be measured at their peak. Presumably in Greenwich, England, or somewhere along the meridian. That also may be the time when the break occurs between the highest average reading taken earlier in the day, and the later evening average (expected from the day before).

Knowing of this differential between the two- would it be possible to use this differential for any type of power generation since it uses the entire planet as it's base? Seems like the potential differences might be quite large if harnessed properly. Thanks, Rich

Distribution refers to geography, they check all locations at 19:00 UT to find the location of the highest field strength.

what is the effect of

distribution of the strength of the global atmospheric electric

and why at 19:00 o'clock? Every time of the day would be as good as well?

and why

invariably register the maximum electric field strength?

To see the daily/longtime chnges of the elecric field strength?

Data on atmospheric electricity was collected by the research ship Carnegie from 1915 to 1929. The variations of the global electrical field were charted as a function of UT (Universal Time), and it shows that at 1900 UT field strength is most intense. This collected data chart is called the Carnegie Curve.

The Carnegie Curve appears very nearly the same as a chart of global thunderstorm activity, when charted as a function of UT.

So, that is why readings are taken at 1900 UT. The question remains: Why are the readings highest at 1900 UT? I think Usbport may be on to something; however, the Carnegie Curve shows a low activity at 0700 UT.

this is a 2*12 hour period

Good answer. In addition, a good question. I would like to compliment the author of the question. I like questions that make me learn something new. Even with some surfing of the web, it took a while to find a good explanation. I still do not fully understand how thunderstorms at one location in the world can affect the whole world's electric field but it appears that it can. This is not what I would have expected.

Since the Amazon has the most thunderstorms, it contributes the most to the earth's electric field. 19:00 GMT is peak thunderstorm activity in the Amazon. One interesting thing I found was that the "lifetime" of energy generated in a thunderstorm is approximately 10 to 100 seconds. Again, I found this far different than I would have expected.

Hi Jim, I also have enjoyed this challenge question. I was wondering if, in your surfing, you had come across this paper I found, thanks to Tornado's first comment? When I read about the relationship with thunderstorms, I mentioned it in comment seven but did not elaborate because it only brought up more questions for me.

Since correlation does not infer causation, I hypothesize that t-storms and the electric field are only parts of a circuit as complicated as the weather. Looking at some of the other parts of this circuit helps me to understand how a t-storm could have global effects. The Earth, it seems, is one of the most obvious parts of the circuit, since it is a big ball of spinning iron (an armature perhaps?) it would conduct globally. A more complicated part of this circuit is the spheres and their interactions (magnetosphere, ionosphere, stratosphere, and/or troposphere as windings?) which are also globally conductive.

T-storms, as I understand them, release stored energy due to condensing water's decreasing ability to hold it. I'm not sure if they actually generate electricity, but they might. They are an awesome force of nature here. The Earth and spheres may be the generator. But I can imagine the energy flowing quickly through and around the planet.

When I was in the Amazon it was during their dry season (July) and their was only one t-storm in 10 days. I wonder if the data might show a lower peak electric field during their dry season versus their rainy season?

To complicate issues even further, in my research on lightning (which was motivated by an observation that in this part of the world, the heaviest lightning activity tends to come on the trailing edge of a storm rather than the leading edge), there is the possibility that the polarity of the lightning can actually reverse, with electrons flowing from ground to positively charged regions of the thunder clouds...

I thought that was the normal direction for lightning?

Typically, on the leading edge of a thunderstorm, one has negative charge in the clouds, and forward lightning passes excess electrons to the ground. On the trailing edge of the thunderstorm, one has a positively-charged region of the cloud, which sucks electrons up from the ground. Or is it holes going the other direction? Anyway, normal, leading edge "negative" lightning leaves catastrophic burn evidence at the strike point. With trailing edge "positive" lightning, apparently (based on my observations) there is less evidence (if any) of a "strike point", but it can have devastating effects on electrical distribution systems (which is why I started investing the issue in the first place). I am not really an expert on lightning- most of my information comes from some EPRI studies done back in the 1990's in Florida, where they were shooting rockets into clouds to induce lightning strikes, the better to study them. The most profound result of their studies, in my opinion, is that it is not a very good idea to fire wire-tethered rockets into a thunder head...

so we are all under high voltage?

From memory we are around 10 millivolts - so well under.

be carefull - I'm at high voltage!

Might it be the other way around? Could the whole world's electric field affect thunderstorms in the part of the world most susceptable to such activity?

Doorman and mule,

It's the rolling average of thunderstorm activity which has a double peak because of Africa/Europe and America.

From icae2007.googlepages.com/s1-1.pdf S1-1 Earle Williams

to: Randall, Doorman, and jim35848,

Randall, thank you for the detailed data (and the website). You answered the question that I did not ask and one that could have been a counter argument to my model. The Congo is a large, equatorial, wet zone and should have a similar effect. Your presented data shows that it does (and confirms the answer to Doorman's 1st question). The correlation of thunder data with ionospheric potential also answers Doorman's question on the minimum

Jim, the ionosphere is a conductor and on the hourly scale is able to approach a common potential. I think that the lifetime you refer to is the "cycle" time. The energy of a thunderstorm is constantly being regenerated. So, when it reaches a critical value (of electric field), it is discharged by lightning. Then it starts to charge again.

I love a good thunderstorm, now I feel sorry for the folk in New Zealand.

It's when the world wide average fog density is at it's lowest.

In Johannesburg where I currently reside, long-haul flights (which are usually fully laden) take off at between 18h00 and 21h00. I'm told that this is because the air density is at its greatest during this period and JNB is more than 5000 ft above sea level, so those 747's and A400's need all the help they can get to become airborne. Could this have a bearing on the measurement of peak electric fields? It would be great if we had Nikola Tesla to offer an opinion.

No. Think low humidity and temperature when you think of higher air density.

Why would low humidity air have higher density?

As you add water vapor the air molecules are spaced further apart and the density of air drops. Water vapor's relative density is less than that of dry air and it is also more buoyant. Just compare the molecular mass of water to that of air (nitrogen, oxygen, etc.) and water vapor is about 2/3 the density.

It seems counterintuitive when people talk about how soupy the air is, you think about the word 'thick', but it is not.

Interesting

the soupy part is that humid air feels different in your lungs

I'm sure you are aware of that perception living in Florida

I remember getting off the plane after a flight to New Orleans

The air seemed hard to breath, the air could be described as heavy

That of course is a perception, not a measurement of a physical property

We're drifting badly here but... I have emphysema and I can tell the difference in the amount of oxygen in dry cold air, dry warm air and warm humid air by the length of time it takes me to recover from an energetic departure from my norm.

I'd suggest temperature and wind direction are the greater factors in aircraft takeoff performance.

brief link

And to a lesser extent, engines loose thrust from humidity.

This will also seem "counter intuitive" to the 5 cylinder brigade.

If engines lose thrust from humidity, why is water injection used to increase take off thrust? see <http://blizzard.rwic.und.edu/~nordlie/water_injection/background.html>

Humidity is not the issue, density of the air is.

Water injection adds mass flow and tends to 'cool' a chemically correct (lean) mixture to a 'safe' temperature.

Humidity is per AH's comment 34

So is reducing density, so is reducing the available oxygen to support combustion. (rich)

But as said, humidity (density) is minor compared to the effect of altitude (density) on lift

(and add; power in normally aspirated engines).

The point I was trying to suggest is that if the humidity is associated with lower air density, it is the lower air density, ie less Oxygen, which will be the major contributing factor to the reduced engine power, not the moisture, because at any given air density the presence of moisture in the charge enhances performance rather than degrading it.

Water injection has several effects, increasing the air density and cooling the charge as you correctly state, but also water injection removes(over time) and/or prevents the build up of carbon deposits on the piston and head - I ran water injection (using about 4litres of water per 60 litres of fuel) on an engine for about 10 years and 350,000km, and when I pulled it down for an unrelated reason the head and pistons were as clean as new.

As a private pilot, the conditions I cited were what we were taught.

Of course, air temperature and relative humidity are directly linked, too. ;-)

While we have strayed off topic, the original post on this subject questioned what factors controlled the takeoff from an airport at high altitude and humidity and temperature are the big ones.

As far as wind goes, typically you can find a runway that allows you to take off into the wind. As long as the wind component is horizontal and not a vertical shear, then wind is not so much a factor. It's the vertical shear that is of greater concern to me, with the vertical shear microbursts being the worst.

It is a necessary study to monitor the earth's environment with respect to solar radiations etc. and other changes like humidity, average global temperature and so on. The interrelations of all such values help us understand better the factors which may be responsible for various environmental changes and the impacts of such changes on agri production, wind directions, communication related radiography and etc.

As for the specific time (1900 hrs of GMT), it is not really important at what time a global average or a peak value is traced.

The selection of GMT 1900 hrs may have been done by a person who believed in numerology and whose lucky no. must have been 1 or 19.

However, it does not really matter and once it has been selected, it can pretty well continue.

Regards,

Ashok Shukla

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I think the statement is false. As the earth has movement and there occurs different seasons it is impossible to obtain the same register at the same daytime each and every day because the global atmospheric electric field is not a variable ot time.

if the global electric field of the earth depends from the sunlight - than this electric field should be stationary in relation to the position of the sun.

Taking the data collected at the peak of global electric field (GEF) strength (established as GMT - UT - 1900) this information is used for analysis of weather and rainfall predictions as well as being a more accurate method of monitoring average temperatures around the world, compared to surface temperature measurements. This information has become an important increment of monitoring and predicting of global warming trends. The timing of the recording is coincidental with noon over the United States and mid-afternoon over the Amazon basin which is the peak of the energy strength - hmmmm, interesting that ionization and other GEF contributing values influencing the global electric field are most affected by the most rapidly changing, man-altered landmasses on our sphere of universal dirt.

I have been following the discussion, and the comments about timing (GMT) of natural events around the world changes with the earths rotation around the sun - the earth's tilt, the seasons etc - and the natural variability of these things, however I surmise that at 19:00 UT there is a power consumption spike somewhere around the world that is influencing these measurements .....

A thought

Bill

The mass of the earth remains constant.

until you take atomic energy! - but the difference is too small to be measured, specially in relation to the cosmic bombardement! (the mass of solar wind is much bigger than the mass defect of the atomic energy),

Given that the time does make it afternoon over the rain forests and that water vapor can hold more stored charge, than as the forest heats up and releases more humidity and oxygen into the atmosphere the charge holding capacity would also peak.

What if the the electric fields are generated outwards from the inner earth. Moving upwards in to the atmosphere