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Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

Posted September 19, 2010 7:34 AM

Researchers at Northwestern University recently ran experiments to read P300 brain waves of mock terrorists. As it turns out, the technique used identified 10 out of 12 terrorists and 20 out of 30 crime-related details. Overall, the test's complex protocol revealed concealed knowledge with 83% accuracy. In order to prevent future terrorists attacks, do you think anti-terrorism lawmen should be allowed to use such techniques to question suspected terrorists?

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#1

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/19/2010 12:43 PM

Good luck getting that to stand up in court.

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#2

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/19/2010 7:23 PM

I think this is viable, provided the brains are put back in if the results are negative for "concealed knowledge".

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#3

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/19/2010 10:08 PM

The statistical results are not good enough to warrant their use by anti-terrorist lawmen. Anti-terrorist lawmen have the power to detain people on suspicion and do not have to prove their suspicion in court. We all want the real terrorists detained, but there has to be some material grounds for the suspicion, or Torquemada will have to move over.

These EEG applications are very prone to error. if your eyes move, it will cause a P300. The P300 is associated with recognizing something "significant", and the attempt to turn this into proof of guilty knowledge is not worthy of forensic science. There are many reasons why a particular item might strike the subject as significant. Guilty knowledge may be one reason, but it is certainly not the only one. A P300 test could easily be skewed simply by presenting cues to the subject prior to the test which will alter the perception of a 'significant' item. If there is intention to support a "suspicion" or a political agenda, the test could be used to fabricate a pretext for detention of an innocent person.

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#4

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/19/2010 11:32 PM

Sounds like a good plot for a movie. Oh wait, they already did that, Minority Report.

When the thought police arrive we will all be in trouble.

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#5
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 12:02 AM

Quote, 'When the thought police arrive we will all be in trouble.'

Especially since anything like this turns out to be more of a WAG than SWAG when more details are known.

Maybe they need new funding so had to come up with something sensational?

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#6

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 3:55 AM

Yeah, once we all have our scalps wired up with electrodes the world will be a safer place.
Must stop typing...electrodes say be calm...must comply...
Del

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#7

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 11:02 AM

This should've been used on ol' George W. Oh, wait, you have to have brain to scan...

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#9
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 1:51 PM

I gave you a ga... because while humorous, is relevant, because that bastard and and buddies created the patriot act, and poured billions of tax dollars into 'internal security'. fyi, during ww2, the nazis had 1.5 million men performing internal security...

not much different. just a bit more vaseline to ease things in.

chris

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#10
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 8:48 PM

Chris, G.W. Bush is not a bastard.

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#11
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 11:16 PM

No, not in the strictly technical meaning of the word. I agree. His skeletons in the closet lineage is well leaked mapped out, and ... all the way back to the traitorous grandfather... yes, he has married parents, and was not born out of wedlock.

I mean no disrespect towards you, and my criticism is of his performance in the job of president. I consider that fair game. I apologize for my ranting that stepped over the line on that. He is a human, and my brother in that regard.

I will grant you that being president is the worst job there is, and no matter what you do, you are caught in a crossfire, and nobody gets out alive. I think ex-president's spend years trying to compensate for what they could not accomplish due to the clusterfack that the job is... and I do not blame him alone... perhaps he chose the wrong team, or was born into the wrong team. I do not blame him for what he could not change, or for the circumstances of his time, or for what he could not know.

It is possible that he is just sonderkommando, forced to do a job, and keep silent, or die.. but I don't believe that. I think that there are daily decisions that a man makes in such a position and responsibility of power. One chooses power and money, or they choose humanity. Did he toss the moneylenders out of the temple? No, he and his cronies deregulated them... Did he cut back military spending, and give more to the poor? No, he started two wars, and ruined the economy of the little people, while the rich got richer.

Perhaps "bastard" was not the correct term... but who is worse, the man who acts to commit murder, torture, robbery, etc., or the man who watches, governs, and does nothing?

If not W., then most certainly his team, have a lot to answer for on any judgement day, or simply any day of the week around this house.

You may think that I, as a Canadian, have no voice or opinion that needs to be heard, but I assure you that Canada is heavily influenced and interlinked by economic policies of the US.

Chris

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#12
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 12:19 AM

What do call the present idiot that is president then?

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#13
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 2:55 AM

I think he is a voice if reason being drowned out by an army of Klan. As an American, he can not act directly against the crackheads at Fox News, and given that he is walking in a crossfire and a minefield at the same time, I can only recommend that he direct his time, money,and creative energies at the development of initiatives that will survive his presidency, and foster change at a grass roots level, to educate all Americans to a higher level, including basic political realities.

I think that Obama has far more understanding of the ramifications of policy and finance decisions than his opponents, and yet he is not as strong a player, due to his unwillingness to silence their rabid voices, and thereby suffers in the public opinion.

I give thanks to heaven for the ability of humans to compare two options, and see the difference between them. Comparison is the ultimate form of intelligence. There is a shadow empire of money and corruption that distorts the good efforts of so many, that I find it disgusting. Most people, if given the opportunity to lead, would take a forceful control of negative influences, and subsequently, increase the effectiveness and efficiency of their leadership. Obama has had to spend an inordinate amount of time and energy just to deal with the insane crossfire war that is being waged against him. He possesses the power and authority to shut it down, or to divert it as others have done, but his honesty, integrity, and belief in equality, will not allow him to perform false flag operations, or to speak anything but the truth.

I believe him to be a wise and comprehensively aware leader, who is being actively opposed by money, corruption, and dirty tactics. If I were him, I would re-regulate the financial system. I would make the Fed a government institution, and responsible to the people. I would clean up the FDA corruption, and separate the pharma industry from them. I would cut military spending in half, and put that money into public works and education for the people. I would mandate a specific and growing percentage of all food grown in the US to be organic.

I am not as nice, or patient as Obama, and would probably be more umm.. insistent that things get done. I think I might raise a bit more fear of jail time for the inaccurate political and financial news reporting, under the auspices of inciting panic in the population. I think perhaps political and financial news reporters ought to be classified as public servants, and mandated to take an oath of honesty and accuracy in reporting. (or be prosecuted)

I also think that Obama could solve more problems if he instituted ISO 9001-2000 quality management systems for all of government, and formalized the goal setting, evidencing, and disclosure of those organizations. I think the same approach will also fix most of the problems with schools, hospitals, and other publicly funded organizations.

I think that Insurance companies, while allowed to establish rates based on their own calculations and market forces, ought to have control limits or "pid loop" corrective measures and incentives established by the government.

Chris

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#15
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 3:26 AM

I am afraid the Obama will go down as an ultra failure as president.

He won't work with the opposition.

He can't control his own party.

He changes his opinion and message depending on the audience.

Sorry but I disagree with virtually every one of your points:

1) The Fed under political control? No way!

2) The FDA can do better - no doubt but what I believe we need are criminal penalties for criminal actions - such as hiding the real affect of a new drug

3) Organic food is worse than silly in my informed opinion. It serves no purpose other than to pacify the loony bunch.

4) Keep the military strong - others don't need it as the US has it - too bad for the US and good thinking on the part of others but it is needed.

5) Accurate political reporting? When the press is kissing his butt and pushing Obama's agenda? Accuracy would have to go both ways and neither side wants that. Reporters classified as public servants? Then they could only report what you want reported? Both sides are equally bad at distorting reality. Virtually all the green organizations are gross violators of truth is reporting - they bend what ever they need to to meet their political ends.

6) ISO? That is one of the worse jokes of all times! It means no more or less than a particular organization wants - I saw that all too well working around the world.

7) Obama being nice? He is nothing more than one more Chicago politician as he has shown all too well. Stupid I would agree with. He reminds me of JFK except a bit more capable possibly.

The only good thing about Obama is that he is better than Saire (from the prairie) Palin! His so called economic stimulant package is a joke - especially monies that are not yet spent which is probably the majority. That was nothing more than pork.

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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

10/14/2010 8:02 PM

Ca NaDa:Literal translation:The Great Nothing

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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

10/15/2010 2:02 PM
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#24
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

11/14/2010 12:35 AM

Now that the Supreme Court gave corporations unlimited access to politicians, the "2 party" system smells of corruption more and more. What the U.S. needs is more engineers and fewer lawyer/politician types. Until voters start seeing that they get pretty much the same results every time they vote for a republican or a democrat (or even worse - a libertarian, their wages, benefits and standards of living will continue to decline. Those of us interested in real change voted for Nader. Call me crazy (the typical non-thinker response), but isn't the definition of insanity to continue to do the same thing over and over, expecting a different result?

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#8

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/20/2010 11:22 AM

This sort of reminds me of George Clooney's movie "Men Who Stare at Goats"......is life following fiction or vice-versa? LOL

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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 2:59 AM

Actually the current president has very strong Socialist leanings.

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#16

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 3:53 AM

Oh great - now it's straight to Guantánamo for recognizing the city my mistress lives in - and the place will probably be full of property developers and real estate lawyers.

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#17
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 8:05 AM

Exactly. Your interest in art history and architecture may be a problem.... Even your nervousness about being a terror suspect could alter the P300 pattern. I think a naive response in the situation would be to guess which questions are significant... oops!

What amazes me is that while the medical witchhunt methods are being promoted to law enforcement, no one is paying attention to the fact that all of these 'medical' modalities for supposed mind reading, and the old fashioned 'lie detector' too, are easily faked or defeated by the available technical means of this day and age.

A tiny injectable device on the vagus nerve can alter brainwaves and other outcomes such as regional blood flow measured by MRI. The notion that this sort of device is expensive or only available to honest, responsible people is complete hogwash. None of the stuff used in animal experiments is at all restricted. Hell, a 'pet control' device could probably do it. And the developers and researchers with access to more sophisticated gear are manifestly a diverse multi-ethnic community - you can't rule out the known extremist agendas or say with certainty that criminals or terrorists do not have access to these means.

So what are you going to do - full body scans of every suspect to ensure there's no electronic mechanism for defeat? If not, you are overlooking an obvious source of error and failing to rule it out... goodbye scientific and forensic standards.

Or is the real issue that both the 'mind reading' gear and the devices to fake it are coming from "medical device" industry. A dandy little place for extremist agendas to fester.

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#18

Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 1:40 PM

Hmm to read my mind. Beer, brats, sex, beer, brats, sex........umm where was I?

All it takes is a government to 'declare' the technology 'accurate' to enforce it's rules.

Plus it sounds as if the test was 'rigged' anyway. Today you test subjects are "Terrorists". We want you to.......

Which establishes a mindset and then they are given tests 'geared' to produce the results desired.

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#19
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

09/21/2010 8:36 PM

How could say "rigged" when the control group .......... oh.... oh dear

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#22
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

11/10/2010 1:03 PM

Too bad this got hijacked by the Canadian guy....narcistic views and hate being spewed. Wow. Interesting thread until then.

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#23
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Re: Reading Potential Terrorists Minds

11/10/2010 2:49 PM

Which Canadian?

Welcome to CR4.

It isn't kindergarten. (most days)

I don't hate. I just think that certain people should not hold public office. Calling W a bastard isn't hate. Some people just don't qualify for public representation, except through deception. If people had known going in, who he really was, he would not have got in.

I've met a pile of americans personally, and almost every single one, I am proud to call neighbor and friend. I am sure that there are occasionally philosophical differences, but those are on a personal basis. I do not believe that GWB fairly represented Americans, in taking America to war, or in torturing prisoners, or in putting the economy into recession. Call me what you will, you can't change the facts.

Chris

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